Murray is probably extremely bright given his large cranial capacity, enormous influence on society, high income, and elite education. He looks a bit like Charles Darwin, and his reflective haughty speaking style adds to his learned air.

Picture of Darwin
A few years ago, Murray wrote a fascinating book (which I’ve partly read) about the new upper class called Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960–2010, the theme of which is that today’s elite is different in kind than elites of past generations. The biggest, and from an HBD perspective, most fascinating, difference between today’s elite and elites in the 1950s is that the former are Jews and the latter were WASPs, but that distinction is perhaps too taboo even for Murray, lest he lose the respect of Charles Krauthhammer and William Kristol, the latter of whom describes Murray as the best social scientist in America!
Although I find Murray an absolute pleasure to listen to, I struggle a bit to fully grasp his point. Yes today’s elite is far more likely to have attended an elite school than in past generations, but that seems largely because today many people attend college, while in 1920, just attending any college at all was an elite education. Seems to me like a simple case of credential inflation, and perhaps not the social revolution Murray implies.
But perhaps Murray’s most compelling point is that in cities like LA, San Francisco, and New York, there are entire geographic areas consisting of at least 100,000 people, where the average person is in the top 0.5% of all Americans in a composite of education and income.
I would estimate that people who average in the top 0.5% of attained socioeconomic status average in the top 5% in IQ (IQ 125 U.S. norms, IQ 123 white norms), and given regression to the mean, their kids might average IQ 115; U.S. norms (IQ 112 white norms).
Murray worries that having so much money, education and brains located in just a few geographic areas instead of being spread out all over the country like it used to be, is creating social classes much less mobile than they used to be, thus killing the American dream.
I think Murray is overestimating how much cognitive stratification has increased, partly because as I mentioned, elites have always been the most educated, it’s just that Ivy League degrees are the new college degrees.
But more importantly, Murray thinks people who’ve attended elite colleges are obscenely smart, having an average IQ of 135+ (U.S. norms) (see page 375, note 36 from his book), which is certainly true if measured by SAT scores, but not even close to true if measured by neutral test that they weren’t explicitly selected for. Murray vaguely acknowledged this issue when he co-wrote The Bell Curve (see page 694, note 32), but seems to greatly underestimate it. This is not to deny that SAT might be a valid measure of IQ (I cite SAT scores all the time), but only when used to measure the IQs of people not largely defined by being selected by it, lest you get a selection bias effect where the test used to screen a group gives systematically higher scores than all other tests the group has taken.
But Murray does make a great point when he implies brains have far more market value (independent of education) than they used to, probably because society has become so complex. I’ve noticed this just from perusing old issues of the Forbes 400. The richest Americans used to be retail and oil tycoons. Today they’re largely nerds, and the average self-made decabillionaire might have an absolutely stratospheric IQ of 151 (it’s unlikely the richest few Americans have ever before been that far above the cognitive average).
But if Murray is right that the college sorting system combined with market forces are turning America turning into an IQ caste system, with more and more assortative mating and stratification by IQ, and that this has been going on since the 1950s, compound one generation after another, then what we should find a secular increase in IQ variance, as the cognitive elite mates with each other, and so does the other extreme, making the cognitive gap between the brightest and dullest 10% higher each generation. Of course the standard deviation (SD) on IQ tests is set at 15 in each birth cohort, but by giving a very old IQ test to a representative sample of kids today, we should expect to see an increased SD if Murray is right.
Maybe the super elites are Jews, but those towns in California where the average income is “in the top 0.5%” probably have lots of Asians, whose influence doesn’t stretch as far as to the super-elites (I.E Forbes 400)? Perhaps they have a smaller SD of income
and of course Murray is correct…..the “Latinization” of America is coming true………….especially with so many NAMs coming over, the Whites who can’t hack it are living with them, and experiencing further decline, and they CAN’T STAND IT, hence Trumpenproletariat.
Just my take.
Jews are mostly found living in NYC, DC, LA and one could make a case, also SF, because Google and Uber were founded by their members. Some of them are not necessarily living the good life due to their own merit, but because of connections or what we call tribalism.
Readers here with their smarts can make a case that America is a crappy place if you don’t have a lot of money, because there is no middle class, and you will be living among low IQ undesirables. Safe areas are becoming out of reach for the middle class.
Lower-middle class is experiencing a lack of “safe places” for sure.
They have the status of Mestizo peasants in their future and they think Herr Drumpf can change that for them.
America is a 2nd rate nation at best. I encourage anyone not in the upper middle class to leave if they can. And upper middle class in America is basically the only middle class.
“The biggest, and from an HBD perspective, most fascinating, difference between today’s elite and elites in the 1950s is that the former are Jews and the latter were WASPs, but that distinction is perhaps too taboo even for Murray, lest he lose the respect of Charles Krauthhammer and William Kristol, the latter of whom describes Murray as the best social scientist in America!”
Because Jewish nepotism is involved.
https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2016/03/11/the-evolution-of-jewish-nepotism/
I love Murray, one of my favorite people.
PP, I corresponded with him in email a few months ago. Some guy was talking shit about him how Murray ‘ran from debate with Joseph Graves’ so I emailed him to clarify. I was so excited I got a response from one of my heroes!
http://www.politicalforum.com/race-relations/452110-charles-murray-ducked-debate-joseph-graves.html
Pretty funny.
I love The Bell Curve. I read it a year and a half ago, it completely changed my worldview. The Cognitive Elite Murray talks about is extremely interesting.
Of course my favorite chapter was the dreaded “Chapter 13”.
I dunno, Jewish verbal IQs are pretty spectacular.
Of course, but nepotism plays a role as well.
RR-If I recall Murray’s stats on IQs by race and Hispanic/Jewish origin could be given, and broken down into verbal and non-verbal (or somebody extrapolated raw data used by Murray).
Where the U.S. Holisitic norms have an SD of 15, racial holistic norms might be 14? and sub-category norms, 13.
for verbal IQs, where the average American has a verbal IQ of 100 with 14 SD;
Jews (2% of pop): whopping 126 (SD 13)
non-Hispanic Gentile Whites (71% of pop): 103 (SD 13)
Asians (4% of pop): 97 (SD 13)
Blacks (13% of pop): 92 (SD 13)
Hispanics (10% of pop): 82 (SD 13)
Looking at the “top 0.5%” as PP did, we’d find that where SD is 14, a VIQ equivalent of 136, We’d see this is;
+10/13 SDs from your average Jew (23×0.02)
+33/13 SDs from your average White(0.6×0.71)
+3 SDs from your average Asian(0.2×0.04)
+44.13 SDs from your average Black(0.04×0.13)
+54/13 SDs from your average Hispanic(0.001×10)
so Jews would theoretically be 0.46/1.03, or 45% of people at such a level.
I’m of course not counting Scientific/Spatial, but solely verbal, because that’s what we’re talking about….http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/iqtable.aspx
I would be shocked if the average Jewish verbal IQ is anywhere near 126.
Mind blowing.
East Asians have low verbal IQ, 99 for the Chinese. They’re better spatially, where Jews don’t do so well. This is why Korea is the leader in robotics.
PP-
they only evolved with Higher Verbal IQ in Europe.
Spatial/non-Verbal stayed close to the level of regular Europeans, or perhaps even a little below;
so around 95, while verbal is 125, the average is 110?
Can you do it that simply.
My source is wikipedia….
(not the greatest, I know);
“A study found that Ashkenazi Jews had only mediocre visual-spatial intelligence, while their verbal IQ (which includes verbal reasoning, comprehension, working memory, and mathematical computation) compensated for this with a high median of 125.6”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence
racerealist and pumpkin- there’s a theory that verbal IQ tends to be linked to more “efficient” so to speak, languages.
I.E., the Khoisans communicate with clicks and clacks, whereas Europeans have the most efficient language (Asians have lower verbal, as RR said)…
what do you think?
PP may disagree because he thinks the Nordics are smarter, and the Germanic languages are less efficient, but I am still curious.
Will,
seems this study was done with lower and tendentious sample.
Santo- possibly.
I’m just saying, and although I haven’t read RR’s piece in great detail, if Jews were nepotistic in verbal fields, there would be no gentiles around. That’s how severe the overrepresentation is expected to be.
Given those spatial IQs, they’d be expected to be 1% of the Engineers, which has Spatial components (not math), but they are 5%, although some of that could be cultural, just like how Asians are overrepresented as Lawyers despite their verbal IQs.
”just like how Asians are overrepresented as Lawyers despite their verbal IQs.”
is not the otherwise** east asians are not overrepresented as lawyers at least in ”America”.
”if Jews were nepotistic in verbal fields, there would be no gentiles around. That’s how severe the overrepresentation is expected to be.”
even it could be true we tend to look for the proportion of both
1% of super higher verbal iq among 6 million people
is obviously not the same than 1% among 190 million people
only if jews have a enormous proportion of verbally extremely bright people…
jews have a antagonistic evolutionary strategy
this explain why ”they”, as a collectivity, love to lie to the gentile crowds.
they create labyrinth to the gentile crowds…
and they know about the labyrinth because ”they’ were the creators of it.
He’s very impressive
Yo pumpkin, what do you think about nootropics
I’m skeptical
Am I missing something?
Why is PP so surprised that Ashkenazis have such drastic verbal>spatial?
That’s the environment they had to adapt around.
They weren’t setting up the Civilizations there, it was already there, hence little selection for spatial intelligence.
I agree Jews have a large verbal > spatial split, but a mean verbal IQ of 126 just doesn’t pass the smell test.
I have an excellent study on the Jewish cognitive profile that I will post on soon.
Speaking of such….don’t forget your Ben Shapiro IQ estimate.
-According to wikipedia, he graduated HLS at 23 years old.
not only a high influence Z-score, but high education one as well.
He’s at least part Ashkenazi and is 5’9″ tall (taller than the average male Ashkenazi Jew?)
Yes I’ll definitely get to him soon.
murray is a huge prole.
and he’s really dumb.
A really dumb person can not write 626 page book full of thousands of footnotes and regression analysis that sells 300,000 copies in hardback. It’s taken you two years to write a simple blog post explaining your views on HBD and you have the nerve to call Murray dumb!
YOU GOT ONLY ONE 19 ON THE WECHSLER, DESPITE HAVING A DAD WHO WENT TO HARVARD
National merit finalist Ruhkukah was raised a poor black child and he got two 19s!
Shameful!
You have schizophrenia!
You think everyone here except you is me.
You’re hideously deformed.
You have a huge head, a freakishly long torso, and super short legs.
You’re a disgusting Marxist who wants to take money from people who earned it!
In short, YOU ARE GENETICALLY INFERIOR!
Hihihi
Is nervous??
So….
ashkenazis ARE GENETICALLY INFERIOR**
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.560128
Lmfao@ pumpkin getting trolled XD cmon dude how could you not tell he was baiting you?
A dumb person could definitely write a long book and sell 300,000 copies (only 300,0000?)
Idk about the whole reggression analysis though. It probably takes brains for that.
I can’t believe you don’t know he’s NOT purely trolling.
He really believes he’s far smarter than the greatest minds in HBD. He’s implied it literally a thousand times.
The Bell Curve sold around 500k copies in the months after it was released. I can’t find any current figures though.
He’s smart but EXTREMELEY mentally ill. He thinks that everyone here is pumpkin person except him and Santo. Because I “read his comments before I started commenting”. It doesn’t even make sense….
What I find most annoying is his critiquing of others’ grammar in the face of his word salad…..
”He’s smart but EXTREMELEY mentally ill”
i don’t think is 100% possible to diagnose people via web.
1. so misdreavus is schizo too peepee?
2. yes santaclaus, peepee is very very sensitive about her very very low IQ.
3. “the greatest minds in HBD” are like “the greatest minds in professional wrestling”.
4. your putative score report did no indicate any 19s. and you were 12.
i’m still w8ing!
Not only did you get only one 19, but you’re too spatially retarded to read a chart, which clearly showed several of my scores at 19.
But in fairness, the WISC-R norms were over twenty years old when i took it and the Flynn effect can be quite acute on some Performance tests.
Childhood IQ is arguabley MORE accurate than adult IQ if you adjust for social class though my top 1% chronometrics indicate a high adult IQ
murray didn’t get into harvard, because he was smart.
he got into harvard, because his dad was a business executive.
his “small town in Iowa” was hq for Maytag.
and oh peepee vocab is THE MOST G LOADED SUBTEST.
but it wasn’t my only 19.
still w8ing.
Yes it was your only 19 (if it even was 19). I know this because you said vocab was your highest score and 19 is the maximum. If you had multiple 19s it would have been ONE OF your highest scores, not THE highest score.
Though in fairness, the WISC-R vocab test is VERY hard, with some words possibly becoming obscure since the 1972 norming
But realistically you’re not that smart. You’re hyper educated, but you’re not an original thinker like me (aside from a few good insights on reaction norms which were probably stolen from others)
Charles Murray is very bright, but he’s not brilliant, Oprah level is for few people…
Again,
”human races there”
”human races varies in traits… intelligence included”
”human racial cognitive differences can be reasonably measured”
”iq is reasonably good to this task”
great
but all of it seems obvious
Hbd people need to understand that the they are talking about truisms that many other people in the West avoid or was deceived to dis-believe… it’s not a super fantastic thing, it’s just obvious and depressing because most people are irrational enough to deny what is just obvious or easily understandable, at priore.
I don’t deny Murray intelligence, but i doubt about Oprah-level that PP is trying…
Compare Murray with Darwin with this poor analytical considerations is not a rational thing to do, even this type of personal comparisons seems excessive, unecessary and only exist to inflate some egos.
The ”discovery” or better, previous/precocious doubt about human origins of Darwin is not rigidly comparable or quantifiably with any ‘great” job, Bell Curve included, because we are talking about tons and tons of complexity: different space/time, higher behavioral imprevisibility of reasonably self aware individuals as well the societies where they are (if we compare humans and non-human beings), social complexity (stupid people believing in irreligious idiocy still in XIX century),
Compared cranial similarities seems stupid too.
Holocaust, a ”fascinating” book, 😉
Social inequality + justice for the strong, a ”fascinating” book.
” ‘elite’ a part: translating: how assholes with money are self-segregating in their upper-privileged castles”, a ”fascinating” book
to me it’s not ”fascinating”…
”A few years ago, Murray wrote a fascinating book (which I’ve partly read) about the new upper class called Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960–2010, the theme of which is that today’s elite is different in kind than elites of past generations. The biggest, and from an HBD perspective, most fascinating, difference between today’s elite and elites in the 1950s is that the former are Jews and the latter were WASPs, but that distinction is perhaps too taboo even for Murray, lest he lose the respect of Charles Krauthhammer and William Kristol, the latter of whom describes Murray as the best social scientist in America!”
It is not secret for anyone who are not zombiefiable.
this isn’t a sock puppet peepee? http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/06/what-is-neo-reaction.html
ruhkukah June 6, 2016 at 3:29 pm
As an American of predominantly African ancestry, I think it’s good to see the neo-reaction getting more and more attention, because the mainstream has traditionally ignored anyone outside of the liberal/neo-con/globalist mainstream. But you fail to mention the new reaction to the neo-reaction that’s popping up on the Internet.
In the HBD-sphere, there’s a lot of people of people who accept human differences without necessarily believing in tribalism/neo-reaction: Jayman, Misdreavus, some others. And then there’s the socialist HBDers like Robert Lindsay. I call these people the “Reaction to the neo-Reaction”
472 ruhkukah June 6, 2016 at 3:40 pm
Oh also the commenter Robert Mugabe/Jorge Videla/Henrik Vorwoerd/Chartreus is amazing!
this isn’t a sock puppet peepee
No it’s not. Lucky for you there was no author recognition subtest on the WISC or you might have sent to a slow learner class
Sorry, maybe its my HFA. Sometimes i assume people are smarter than they really are. I just can’t comprehend someone that retarded. Or it could be the other way around, maybe you guys are so autistic you can’t tell when someone is pulling one over you. Honestly it’s fucking hilarious to see someone like you who is usually quite calm and collected to just fly off the handle at a random douche-bag.
“He really believes he’s far smarter than the greatest minds in HBD. He’s implied it literally a thousand times.”
He probably is, so are you and so is william. In fact i would not be surprised if most of you are more intelligent than rushton, murray, jensen etc. These people are not geniuses, They’re wannabe polymaths who get ridiculed by actual geneticists and biologists. To be fair most HBD “scientists” are not actually studying genetics nor neurology but are instead behavioral psychologists or psychometricians.
“Childhood IQ is arguabley MORE accurate than adult IQ if you adjust for social class though my top 1% chronometrics indicate a high adult IQ”
Still find this hard to believe.
your chart does NOT show any score above 18.
because it CAN’T!
YOU are way too spatially retarded to read a chart.
are you still 12 peepee?
still waiting.
Sure it didn’t. We’ll believe the village schizo over our lying eyes
yes. peepee. vocab was ONE of my highest scores.
all higher than ANY of yours.
still waiting.
So it went from your highest score to one of your highest scores? Because on Aug 8, 2015, you said on n/a’s blog:
my score on the vocab subtest of the WISC was my HIUGHEST subtest score at age 9. 3 SDs above the mean.
http://racehist.blogspot.ca/2015/08/rightists-fatter-than-leftists.html
Interesting….
your chronometric score is 100% meaningless.
i’m still waiting peepee-tard.
Yeah, they’re so meaningless the correlate better with SAT scores than even professional IQ tests do, despite having zero cultural content:
peepee, one must first think be a thinker. and one must first be a thinker in order to be an original thinker.
you haven’t even reached the level of thinking yet peepee.
Santa Claus!
Really?
If some mentally ill person threatens the life of say, the President, VIA the web, it’s take seriously…
wtf?
Santo-
if a mentally ill person threatens the life of the President….he’s investigated……
on the internet.
Will,
it is not a prove that this hypothetical person is a mental ill, and may be the otherwise…
Will,
mentally ideal people are EXTREMELY rare,
mental issues is extremely more common than we usually think.
PP Hahaha. Nice fine at n/a’s blog. You know das da troof since he said it there as well.
i like quoting things people never said too peepee-tard.
peepee is black and stupid.
she’s just a crazy nigger.
nothing more. nothing less.
that’s a super shitty correlation. not even close to the correlation with self-described IQ tests.
as i said:
chronometric scores are totally meaningless.
i’m still waiting.
The correlation between SAT and self-described IQ tests is only 0.64 in the general U.S. population. Still waiting for you to produce one score on an ACTUAL IQ test, not college board crap.
no it isn’t you lying fucktard.
that’s ONLY for that bullshit study using ONE IQ test…the RPM…
which is THE LEAST correlated with OTHER self-described IQ tests.
everything Densen said was a lie or he was just too fucking retarded to know when he was lying.
try again fucktard.
i’m still waiting for an adult IQ score from you peepee-tard.
you could even supply a fake one like you did a month ago.
Hello Volunteer,
Genome ready.
Thank you for your interest in research into the genetics of intelligence. Though the project for which you’ve volunteered has been significantly delayed by obstacles to sequencing every volunteer for our study – obstacles which are not yet entirely behind us! – we’re pleased to announce that your genome is among the lucky ones, and now available for download at your convenience.
How is the research going?
Our processing of our volunteer DNA samples is taking significantly more time than expected, due in large part to unanticipated resource constraints upon our project, as BGI’s recent acquisition of Complete Genomics, sudden uncoupling from Illumina, and the subsequent shifting of all sequencing capacity into the new CG hardware platform has had a large impact on all of the BGI research projects, especially big ones like ours. This was…
still w8ing.
no it isn’t you lying fucktard.
that’s ONLY for that bullshit study using ONE IQ test…the RPM…
No, two studies measuring the Wechsler performance of Ivy League students found they scored in the low 120s, despite having SAT IQ equivalents in the 130s to mid 140s (depending on the study). On average they were only 64% as far above the mean on the Wechsler as they were on the SAT, implying a regression slope of 0.64, and thus a correlation of 0.64:
https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/01/15/more-evidence-that-ivy-league-students-average-iq-122/
The SAT is an excellent test among people with similar academic backgrounds, but it doesn’t seem to work well for Americans as a whole. No test is highly g loaded for all humans. The SAT just seems to have a narrower application range than the WAIS which has a narrower application range than chronometrics.
everything Densen said was a lie or he was just too fucking retarded to know when he was lying.
You’re too fucking retarded to know it’s not a lie unless you know it’s not true. Which of Jensen statements have been proven untrue btw?
i’m still waiting for an adult IQ score from you peepee-tard.
you could even supply a fake one like you did a month ago.
Why would I supply an adult IQ score when you accuse my childhood one of being faked? Which is incredibly stupid btw, because in order to fake that chart, not only would I have needed access to a type writer (it’s not created by word processor), but also had the skills to type all that information vertically and then horizontally without making a single typo. Meanwhile the GRE report you got could much more easily have been faked, and the BGI volunteer letter could have been copied and pasted from anyone. Maybe you did fake it, which is why you assume others do. I certainly have trouble believing someone who misunderstands so much written text on this blog could have scored so high on tests measuring reading comprehension. On the other hand schizophrenia is associated with acute drops in IQ, so maybe your pre-morbid functioning was a lot higher.
If your IQ is so high, why can’t you pass this heritability test, despite reading about heritability for years:
https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/04/02/get-a-degree-in-heritability/
Are you saying my little test is harder than scoring a perfect 800 on ALL THREE SECTIONS of the GRE as you claim to have done.
Or I could email you a brief verbal IQ test that only takes ten minutes.
let’s see peepee-tard.
SAT etc normed on millions every year ON A SELECT POPULATION.
“real IQ tests” normed on 2,000 or some pathetic number.
lion understands this, as do some of his commenters.
but you DO NOT. apparently it’s because you can’t.
you can take the SAT or whatever in Ottawa for MUCH less money than you can take a “real IQ test”. it only takes a few hours
the REAL IQ TESTS:
SAT, ACT, GRE, GMAT, LSAT, MAT, etc. choose one.
and if you’re so great at statistics why don’t you sit the SoA’s probability and statistics exam. i made a perfect score.
SAT etc normed on millions every year ON A SELECT POPULATION.
“real IQ tests” normed on 2,000 or some pathetic number.
An incredibly stupid argument. By that logic, some Fox news TV poll where a million O’reilly factors viewers vote is more accurate at predicting who will win the election than a scientific poll done by Gallup with a sample of 1500.
you can take the SAT or whatever in Ottawa for MUCH less money than you can take a “real IQ test”. it only takes a few hours
I do plan on taking the SAT at some point, just out of curiosity just to see what type of college I could have gone to had I been American. I’ll make you a deal, you take my brief verbal IQ, and I’ll take the SAT/GRE/ACT/LSAT.
“Or I could email you a brief verbal IQ test that only takes ten minutes.”
Email me it to me please.
racerealist88@gmail.com
dear God you’re autistic.
and those harvard students were selected at random and their SAT scores were known? and it was the full scale Wechsler?
NO!
NO!
and what’s the confidence interval for the population correlation when you’re inferring it from an extremely select/high end portion of the population?
those two “studies” are meaningless.
anyway peepee-tard.
in purely PSYCHOMETRIC terms the SAT etc.
1. ARE IQ tests
2. ARE the BEST IQ tests.
No, two studies…
what are they peepee? or are they among Densen’s un-published/un-publish-able results?
and why don’t you quote me all the times i’ve pointed out that Densen was a liar?
In particular, he claimed that (1) Arthur Jensen and others routinely confuse the first principal component (PC1) with g as Charles Spearman defined it, and that (2) the high IQ heritability estimates reported in the literature derive from restrictive formal models whose underlying assumptions are rarely tested and usually violated by the data.
or as i said maybe Densen was so retarded he didn’t even know when he was lying.
dear God you’re autistic.
Compared to you schizophrenics, us normal people are autistic.
and those harvard students were selected at random and their SAT scores were known?
They were selected from sign up sheets placed around campus. That’s about as close to random as you’re ever going to get in studies of this kind. In the Dartmouth study a participation request was sent to all 800 seniors. There’s no obvious reason why these studies should have selected for dumber students. If anything, people who volunteer for studies of this kind are probably brighter. And in the Dartmouth study, the SATs were indeed known.
and it was the full scale Wechsler?
In the Dartmouth study, yes. In the Harvard study it was an abbreviated Wechsler that used only the most g loaded Verbal subtest (Vocab) and the most g loaded Performance subtest (Blocks) and this particular abbreviation correlates over 0.9 with the full-scale IQ.
and what’s the confidence interval for the population correlation when you’re inferring it from an extremely select/high end portion of the population?
If we’re assuming a bivariate normal distribution, it shouldn’t matter how high in the distribution we’re selecting from. The regression slope is theoretically a straight line from dumbest to smartest. If you don’t believe it’s a bivariate normal distribution, then why do you care about the correlation in the first place?
in purely PSYCHOMETRIC terms the SAT etc.
1. ARE IQ tests
Technically they’re AQ tests (achievement quotient), and the distinction is not just a semantic one. In order to qualify as learning disabled in many school boards, you need a large IQ > AQ gap.
2. ARE the BEST IQ tests.
The BEST IQ test should correlate a lot better than 0.53 (Harvard estimate) to 0.74 (Dartmouth estimate) with the WAIS (g loading 0.9+), especially since the SAT and WAIS share non-g variance (verbal, spatial, working memory).
The SAT might be the best IQ test if scores were adjusted for the causal effects of social class, but comparing one kid who took advanced placement math all through high school to a kid who attended a working class school where almost no one goes to college is going to impose a ceiling on the g loading.
what are they peepee? or are they among Densen’s un-published/un-publish-able results?
I blogged about the Dartmouth study here:
https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/02/04/how-ivy-league-students-perform-on-each-subtest-of-the-wais/
And the Harvard study here:
https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/04/13/do-harvard-students-have-an-average-iq-of-122/
Psychometric iq tests measure ”pure” cognitive skills: processing speed, pattern similarities, etc etc, 😉
as to hear the car engine
or this
No have context, like mockup/model…
Scholastic iq tests measure THIS ”pure’ cognitive skills inside a scholastic context, i mean:
– what you understand/memorize during the school life
– what you memorize during pre-test studies
It have a context, a scholastic context, but tend to be highly dependent from lot of subjective factors: for example, motivation to study to the test…
so you usually have a greater variation of personal motivation among students.
Its advantages is that it have a context, scholastic context, different than psychometric iq tests (even everything have a context… psychometric iq tests have a pretty reduced context but still underlying, existent)
like a TEST DRIVE
but still is not a complete integrative iq test:
– ”pure” cognitive skills
– scholastic cognitive skills
– real world cognitive skills (self-knowledge, intra-personal skills, quality and size of knowledge you have develop about the place where you are or about information you internalize)
melo-yes, but PP also trolls him.
Don’t you think that “Asians are genetically superior” to a guy who just casually throws around “ch!nk” gets said person’s panties in a bunch?
I mean sure, but i’m asian and being called chink doesn’t bother me. I learned the best way to hurt a white guys feelings is tell him he is a “snow nigger” and to explain to him while he will never be able to satisfy his white wife like a black man could XD
The best way to hurt a HBDer’s(white nationalist’s) feelings is to tell them how intellectually inferior they are to jews and asians, that drives them nuts because they sit all day long trying to rationalize these discrepancies, the same way an afrocentrist would when faced with black-white differences(“asians are not creative”, “jews are sneaky”), it’s pathetic and quite ironic how they don’t see the parallelism.
Right on the money Melo.
meLo-
half of “race realists” just want to stamp “science” onto their anecdotal evidence/experiences. It’s kind of funny.
furthermore;
Panda was treated as some type of joke, while a guy who openly called himself “White Nationalist” was taken seriously….
don’t Asians have more to protect/to be nationalist for?????
hmm….
Will and Melo always protecting the pathetic jooos…
always
pattern*
😉
Willie,
Panda@war is pretty damn intelligent. I’d take that over the average WN who has no idea what they’re talking about.
I also like how he talks in 3rd person like The Rock.
Look you just proved my point i said the word “jews” one time and you comes running to defend your wacked out ideology.
wrong answer…
Your face is a wrong answer.
and marx wanted to take money from people who did NOT earn it.
as usual you’ve proven your low IQ again.
And how pray tell do we decide who EARNED it if not through a voluntary democratic exchange of money for goods & services
You’re an elitist scum who is bitter he was rejected by the market & now wants to impose your values on the incomes of others
But the bottom line is:
You a DUMMY!
Don’t nobody need you
Don’t nobody want you
Reading Marx ain’t gona help any
Take your ass to the welfare!
easy.
i produce.
you steal.
otherwise you’d say how you make your money.
oprah is a THIEF with a tiny head and fish eyes. she’s HIDEOUS. on the outside and on the inside.
i’ve hardly been “rejected” by “the market” peepee-tard.
do you even know when you’re lying?
and you’re a black lesbian for God’s sake.
Actually Oprah’s cranial capacity is quadruple the size of many women’s:
And she produces entertainment enjoyed by tens of millions of people on a daily basis for DECADES which is FAR more valuable than anything you do or could produce.
As for what I do for a living, in addition to acting. I work for a company that does surveys, I do consulting work for the federal government and I help people borrow and lend money.
“and I help people borrow and lend money.”
…..PP is a Jew confirmed?
PP I’d like a better comparison. Looks like the woman on the right has a smaller head making Oprah’s look bigger in comparison.
Even if the woman on the right has a head 40% smaller than normal, the fact that Oprah’s head looks QUADRUPLE the size, suggests Oprah’s cranium is off the scale, and it’s been measured to be.
I though both
PP
and
BUGabby
are stupid, in their own way/weaknesses, period.
this discussion between which one is more intelligent is pretty stupid
PP and their fanaticism about ”oprah” is pretty stupid
Nah PP is just like Furious Styles from “Boyz’ in da Hood”
“I help people get loans for homes and businesses”….
the probability of peepee’s claimed full scale childhood IQ score given her vocab score is…
0.62%.
the probability that her full scale IQ was higher than mine given only the vocab is…
2.9%.
the only mentally ill retard on peepee’s blog is peepee.
the probability of peepee’s claimed full scale childhood IQ score given her vocab score is…
0.62%.
the probability that her full scale IQ was higher than mine given only the vocab is…
2.9%.
You’re too stupid to realize your conclusions are based on post-hoc sophistry. That is, you can always declare an outcome unlikely AFTER it occurred if you have enough correlations to cherry pick from. I thought you were supposed to be educated. You’ve never heard of data mining?
“post hoc”
Like post hoc searches for moral reasoning. =^)
squalid ”thinker”
Yea yea squalid thinker. Doesn’t change the fact that most moral reasoning has no actual logical reasoning behind it!
You just repeat like a parrot.
Squawk squawk!!!
Santo in all seriousness bro, if you’ve read what I have on the subject and read into his other work you’d have my belief on morality.
Huuummmmmmm
Nope
Why not? You don’t like reading things that challenge your views? I do all the time. My views have been changed many times from what I’ve read, most notably how dieting doesn’t work.
Race realist, What do you mean by dieting? Like what women do or just eating healthier in general?
Oy vey where do I start?
Click to access Diets_don’t_work.pdf
Table 1 shows 9 studies in which there were self-reported weights in comparison to a lab weighing. Table 1 also shows that the studies that had the highest percent n in follow-ups had the lower mean weight loss. Those with lower n had higher mean weight loss. This obviously suggests that study participants who don’t show good weight loss don’t return for a follow-up.
Also, looking at Table 1, we can see that for the studies with the most significant weight loss, they were 100 percent self-reported. They showed in their analysis of 2 studies that fit their criteria that people underestimated by 4.5 pounds, a statistically significant result that would skew the results.
Also, the average weight lost over those 5 years: is that something to celebrate? 6 pounds? Self-reports for weight suck and follow-up rates skew the numbers to make diets seem more effective.
This is a meta analysis of all of the relevant duet studies. Conclusion is dieting doesn’t work! One of the main reasons is metabolic slow down, which occurs when in a kcal deficit. Your body panics when it gets out of its defended range, it’s body weight set point, and releases hormones to make you eat more to get back to what it thinks is “normal”. Your brain doesn’t know the difference between obese and nonobese. People don’t believe this but if they want to disbelieve solid data that’s on them.
“Leibel finds that metabolic suppression persists in dieters who have kept weight off for one to six years, so he scoffs at claims that the successful weight loss story disproves his ideas. “If you talk to people who’ve done it – not the studies, but people who actually manage to lose weight and keep it off – they’ll tell you what I’m telling you,” he says: that the only way to achieve this goal was to allow themselves to be hungry all the time while increasing their physical activity substantially. Indeed, his point is supported by data on the eating and exercise habits of people listed in the National Weight Control Registry, who have lost at least thirty pounds and kept it off for one year. A calorie calculator says that Dennis Asbury should have needed 2,100 calories to maintain his weight at 150 pounds, but instead he found that he needed to eat 400 to 500 calories less than that. Such metabolic suppression is the difference between being within the defended range and being below it. Many people blame others for eating too much or exercising too little, assuming incorrectly that both are under voluntary control, but it’s much harder to justify holding people responsible for diet-induced changes in the way the body burns energy.” (Aamodt, 2016, pg. 68)
Metabolic slow down is a real thing as seen in the biggest loser contestants.
The mean metabolic adaptation had increased to 500 kcal per day, which explains why RMR remained 700 kcal per day below the baseline level despite a 90 lb body weight regain. The researchers even said that this large metabolic difference couldn’t be explained by the different calirometer used at the end of the six year period.
Substantial weight loss induces biological changes that promote weight gain.
At the start of the show the average RMR was 2,607 +/-649 kcal per day, with as you brought up previously, 1,996 +/- 358 kcal per day.
Only one maintained weight loss after the 6 years and l regained weight as well as more fat that they bad previously (shocking, I know). The mean rate dripped their mean rate dropped to 1,996 +/- 358 per day with the researchers noticing that those who lost the greatest amount of weight had the biggest metabolic slow down.
Despite then regaining their weight, their metabolic rate was 1,903 +/- 466 kcal per day.
Based on individual weights, the researchers concluded they were burning around 500 kcal less than would be expected of people that size.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html
Yea I’m a nerd with this stuff. It doesn’t work. Substantial evidence shows this. I debate people on the Internet about this, get called fat, show I’m sub 10 percent body fat but they don’t believe it. Yes, someone who’s knowledgeable on human metabolism and nutrition has to be fat!
Finally, the first Law of Thermodynamics is irrelevant to human physiology.
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/first-law-thermodynamics-irrelevant/
It’s irrelevant because no arrow of causality is established.
Will type more later of you’re interested.
Also Melo read this.
https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2016/08/11/the-calories-incalories-out-myth/
Race post hoc Irrealist,
first, to change ”personal” views, in my case, is needed
– amazing arguments done by opponents (in this case, you)
and/or
– to be absolutely right about it
is not your case, sorry
http://rs37.pbsrc.com/albums/e52/Adiomn/Parrot.gif~c200
the fact that you change your point of views don’t mean that i will change my moral point of views, it’s not a argument, it’s a try of negotiation.
again,
even i will never change my conclusive moral point of views, because i’m a very good thinker with most of all psychological qualities that define a good thinker, i think would be interesting you exercising your brain muscles…
just copy and paste your favorite quotes is not a form of argument. I give a damn what his Jewish morality experts have to say. I’m debating with you, so I want you to show me what you think without calling for quotes.
Race post hoc Irrealist,
the reality move, change, and thanks to the human evolution, i mean, self awareness, we have a greater windom of opportunity to the wisdom.
the moral relativism is absolutely applicable to the non-human animals interactions, food chain… unfortunately for them
but ”we” can evolve above food chain, is not*
you are resembling my older brother yesterday when he say for me that ”ethnics is a impediment to the ”progress of the science”.
it’s very easy desconstruct the point of views (and actions) of people with emotional deficits like you. the empathetic approach you no have well developed, put in the skin, in the place of others, even in the place of non-human animals…
to understand something we always use empathetic approach
to put in the place of other things and recognizing its existence…
the sense of vision work like that…
Jesus Christ dude I just wanted to know which one you were talking about, but thanks for the links anyway, ill check them out.
Melo np. I’m really interested in this as you can tell and talk about it any chance I get.
Santo,
My point is, morality is an evolved trait.
“the fact that you change your point of views don’t mean that i will change my moral point of views, it’s not a argument, it’s a try of negotiation.”
People change their views when they are confident. When they read new things that go against what they believe.
“just copy and paste your favorite quotes is not a form of argument. I give a damn what his Jewish morality experts have to say. I’m debating with you, so I want you to show me what you think without calling for quotes.”
K.
Morality and moral reasoning are evolved traits. They evolved since they increased fitness for the group. Since it increased fitness, it got selected for in humans.
Why are morals different depending on where you look? Who’s morals are “right”?
” you are resembling my older brother yesterday when he say for me that ”ethnics is a impediment to the ”progress of the science”.”
Your brother is a smart guy. He’s right.
“it’s very easy desconstruct the point of views (and actions) of people with emotional deficits like you. the empathetic approach you no have well developed, put in the skin, in the place of others, even in the place of non-human animals…”
How do you know that I have “Moral deficits”? I think morals are different than you do. I think it’s subjective. This is a legitimate field.
My point is, how do you quantify morality? Which culture is right and which is wrong in regards to morality?
”Santo,
My point is, morality is an evolved trait.”
duur
”People change their views when they are confident. When they read new things that go against what they believe.”
don’t PROVE ANYTHING
”people” the same people who change their wrong point of views for other wrong point of views tend to be example of how stupid tend to think and act…
”K.
Morality and moral reasoning are evolved traits. They evolved since they increased fitness for the group. Since it increased fitness, it got selected for in humans.”
missing the authors of your quotes here…
just repeat the same things… repeat
even most of your QUOTES are reasonably right don’t prove that so sociopathic point of views are better… what you are trying to do
i’m talking with a machine who like pepperoni and gesticulate prolifically with its hands.
empathy is absolutely logical…
when you deny its power and necessity you are being illogical…
empathy can be also basically action and reaction…
”Your brother is a smart guy. He’s right.”
i don’t want your personal and extremely summarized opinions…
”he’s right”
or
”he’s smart”
aren’t argument in any galaxy…
provide arguments or be honest with me and say ”i don’t want debate with you”
i will understand and celebrate your wise decision
my ”dear” brother is emotionally idiotic, a pseudo-sociopath but without motivation enough to act exactly like that, at least… , he’s ridiculously geek, i know very well how ”smash” my beloved bro is, a adult person with 30’s years with one of their top -life-priorities ”play video games”, RIDICULOUS like you
he no have ANY capacity to judge correctly what is ethics
and you too
two beasts with ”polymath syndrome”
if ethics is a bad thing to the precious ”science” so what do you think about
spread intentionally tropical disease in Porto Rico**
what ”murican” government do in the 50’s
what do you think the nazi experiments**
my RETARDED brother celebrate nazi experiments, he say that without this experiments, many things in medicine would not have been understood.
Is extremely easy to say it when is not you in the place of the guinea pig, is extremely easy…
I should not waste another second of my time with a demented like you.
I will not answer the boring/common questions that any idiot will do about it
morality is subjective for
explicit psychopaths
and
closeted psychopaths like you…
the world wants to know how peepee “earned” her money.
actors and entertainers earn nothing peepee.
they’re scum and should be in the GULAG.
Charles darwin had quite the brow ridge I wonder what kind of effect the shape of your skull has, at least on a within species level? Neanderthals had long heads but they were still enormous(which follows bergman’s principle) I speculate they must have had an incredibly high spatial IQ judging from the size of their visual cortex.
Regarding Neanderthals, yeah that’s pretty much what the evidence suggests.
Regarding head shape, it may depend.
Elongated ones usually have increased senses (smell, sight, etc).
Round/short ones I’ve heard to be good verbally but that doesn’t seem to hold up for asians, so it probably varies with certain brain mutations.
Mesocephalic, medium shaped heads based on index, I think are the idea ones.
That suggests they were probably less domesticated than us. Do you think they were smarter? I assume it was like racial differences today where humans and neanderthal had different averages but still overlapped considerably.
They were not smarter. I’ve had numerous discussions about this.
Given how closer they were to us they probably did overlap. Smarter? No.
Such an idea was theorized mainly on head size and SOME aspects of human culture, some of which has now been attributed to Cromagnons or were limited to spatial abilities.
If we were to judge mainly on head size, Cromagnon would be smater too, but we know that’s not the case. That’s because starvation existed less in hunter gatherer societies with much more selection being based on ideal physical fitness. While agriculture gave way to more starvation, brain size decreased but our brain became more complex due to new selection standards in our societies.
Closer compared to other animals I mean. If the Gorilla Koko could score 82 on a IQ test (though I believe it was modified) then a neanderthal could.
“Smarter? No.
Such an idea was theorized mainly on head size and SOME aspects of human culture, some of which has now been attributed to Cromagnons or were limited to spatial abilities.”
I’ve argued this with plenty of people really the only thing that makes me have any second thoughts about our mental superiority, is their absolute brain size and the fact they seemed to be pretty inventive.
” If the Gorilla Koko could score 82 on a IQ test (though I believe it was modified) then a neanderthal could.”
Did koko really take an IQ test?
Neanderthals what i have read weren’t enormous, they had lower stature…
neanderthals weighed more and were stronger, their brains were enormous.
but less complex, brain ”enormous” but shorter than sapiens*
Shorter, true, yet stockier as well.
I’ve read of some controversy regarding how encephalization would factor, reading that it doesn’t affect much based on estimated mass.
However, I’ve read that they indeed had less neotony and were likely deficient in leading large groups compared to Humans.
Interesting how Neanderthal fascination since that study showing admixture among non Africans has disappeared specially among white supremacist circles
That relative famous theory linking autism ans Neanderthal genes was proven wrong?
Autism is a by product of human sapiens exceptionality and not while hybrid effect with mixing with Neanderthals.
“Interesting how Neanderthal fascination since that study showing admixture among non Africans has disappeared”
?????
“However, I’ve read that they indeed had less neotony and were likely deficient in leading large groups compared to Humans.”
Yes i think our enchephalization was more from sexual election and social interaction.
?????
”has disappeared specially among white supremacist circles
That relative famous theory linking autism ans Neanderthal genes was proven wrong?
Autism is a by product of human sapiens exceptionality and not while hybrid effect with mixing with Neanderthals.”
neanderthal genes found modern humans…
it’s what white supremacists has thought, but the reality seems more nuanced and less
neanderthal genes = very good
non- neanderthal genes = very bad == africans.
Sexual selection?
I thought of it basically being the distribution of body muscle and accounting for how their shorter height would make mass roughly the same, I think they were even less.
What info do you have on Sexual selection and encephalization?
I have no great animus with Mugabe and am no great Statistician, but his argument that ‘the SAT is more accurate than Weschesler because it’s normed on more people’ would imply all scientific polling is wrong.
It’s silly….