[The following is a guest article written by RR. It does not necessarily reflect the views of Pumpkin Person]
Charles Murray published his Human Diversity: The Biology of Gender, Race, and Class on 1/28/2020. I have an ongoing thread on Twitter discussing it.
Murray talks of an “orthodoxy” that denies the biology of gender, race, and class. This orthodoxy, Murray says, are social constructivists. Murray is here to set the record straight. I will discuss some of Murray’s other arguments in his book, but for now I will focus on the section on race.
Murray, it seems, has no philosophical grounding for his belief that the clusters identified in these genomic runs are races—and this is clear with his assumptions that groups that appear in these analyses are races. But this assumption is unfounded and Murray’s assumption that the clusters are races without any sound justification for his belief actually undermines his claim that races exist. That is one thing that really jumped out at me as I was reading this section of the book. Murray discusses what geneticists say, but he does not discuss what any philosophers of race say. And that is to his downfall.
Murray discusses the program STRUCTURE, in which geneticists input the number of clusters they want and, when DNA is analyzed (see also Hardimon, 2017: chapter 4). Rosenberg et al (2002) sampled 1056 individuals from 52 different populations using 377 microsatellites. They defined the populations by culture, geography, and language, not skin color or race. When K was set to 5, the clusters represented folk concepts of race, corresponding to the Americas, Europe, East Asia, Oceania, and Africa. (See Minimalist Races Exist and are Biologically Real.) Yes, the number of clusters that come out of STRUCTURE are predetermined by the researchers, but the clusters “are genetically structured … which is to say, meaningfully demarcated solely on the basis of genetic markers” (Hardimon, 2017: 88).
Races as clusters
Murray then discusses Li et al, who set K to 7 and North Africa and the Middle East were new clusters. Murray then provides a graph from Li et al:

So, Murray’s argument seems to be “(1) If clusters that correspond to concepts of race setting K to 5-7 appear in STRUCTURE and cluster analyses, then (2) race exists. (1). Therefore (2).” Murray is missing a few things here, namely conditions (see below) that would place the clusters into the racial categories. His assumption that the clusters are races—although (partly) true—is not bound by any sound reasoning, as can be seen by his partitioning Middle Easterners and North Africans as separate races. Rosenberg et al (2002) showed the Kalash in K=6, are they a race too?
No, they are not. Just because STRUCTURE identifies a population as genetically distinct, it does not entail that the population in question is a race because they do not fit the criteria for racehood. The fact that the clusters correspond to major areas means that the clusters represent continental-level minimalist races so races, therefore, exist (Hardimon, 2017: 85-86). But to be counted as a continental-level minimalist race, the group must fit the following conditions (Hardimon, 2017: 31):
(C1) … a group is distinguished from other groups of human beings by patterns of visible physical features
(C2) [the] members are linked by a common ancestry peculiar to members of that group, and
(C3) [they] originate from a distinctive geographic location[…]
…what it is for a group to be a race is not defined in terms of what it is for an individual to be a member of a race. What it means to be an individual member of a minimalist race is defined in terms of what it is for a group to be a race.
Murray (paraphrased): “Cluster analyses/STRUCTURE spit out these continental microsatellite divisions which correspond to commonsense notions of race.” What is Murray’s logic for assuming that clusters are races? It seems that there is no logic behind it—just “commonsense.” (See also Fish, below.) Due to not finding any arguments for accepting X number of clusters as the races Murray wants, I can only assume that Murray just chose which one agreed with his notions and use for his book. (If I am in error, then if there is an argument in the book then maybe someone can quote it.) What kind of justification is that?
Compared to Hardimon’s argument and definition. Homo sapiens is:
… a subdivision of Homo sapiens—a group of populations that exhibits a distinctive pattern of genetically transmitted phenotypic characters that corresponds to the group’s geographic ancestry and belongs to a biological line of descent initiated by a geographically separated and reproductively isolated founding population. (Hardimon, 2017: 99)
[…]
Step 1. Recognize that there are differences in patterns of visible physical features of human beings that correspond to their differences in geographic ancestry.
Step 2. Observe that these patterns are exhibited by groups (that is, real existing groups).
Step 3. Note that the groups that exhibit these patterns of visible physical features correspond to differences in geographical ancestry satisfy the conditions of the minimalist concept of race.
Step 4. Infer that minimalist race exists. (Hardimon, 2017: 69)
While Murray is right that the clusters that correspond to the folk races appear in K = 5, you can clearly see that Murray assumes that ALL clusters would then be races and this is where the philosophical emptiness of Murray’s account comes in. Murray has no criteria for his belief that the clusters are races, commonsense is not good enough.
Philosophical emptiness
Murray then lambasts the orthodoxy for claiming that race is a social construct.
Advocates of “race is a social construct” have raised a host of methodological and philosophical issues with the cluster analyses. None of the critical articles has published a cluster analysis that does not show the kind of results I’ve shown.
Murray does not, however, discuss a more critical article of Rosenberg et al (2002)—Mills (2017) – Are Clusters Races? A Discussion of the Rhetorical Appropriation of Rosenberg et al’s “Genetic Structure of Human Populations.” Mills (2017) discusses the views of Neven Sesardic (2010)—philosopher—and Nicholas Wade—science journalist and author of A Troublesome Inheritance (Wade, 2014). Both Wade and Seasardic are what Kaplan and Winther (2014) term “biological racial realists” whereas Rosenberg et al (2002), Spencer (2014), and Hardimon (2017) are bio-genomic/cluster realists. Mills (2017) discusses the “misappropriation” of the bio-genomic cluster concept due to the “structuring of figures [and] particular phrasings” found in Rosenberg et al (2002). Wade and Seasardic shifted from bio-genomic cluster realism to their own hereditarian stance (biological racial realism, Kaplan and Winther, 2014). While this is not a blow to the positions of Hardimon and Spencer, this is a blow to Murray et al’s conception of “race.”
Murray (2020: 144)—rightly—disavows the concept of folk races but wrongly accepting the claim that we dispense with the term “race”:
The orthodoxy is also right in wanting to discard the word race. It’s not just the politically correct who believe that. For example, I have found nothing in the genetics technical literature during the last few decades that uses race except within quotation marks. The reasons are legitimate, not political, and they are both historical and scientific.
Historically, it is incontestably true that the word race has been freighted with cultural baggage that has nothing to do with biological differences. The word carries with it the legacy of nineteenth-century scientific racism combined with Europe’s colonialism and America’s history of slavery and its aftermath.
[…]
The combination of historical and scientific reasons makes a compelling case that the word race has outlived its usefulness when discussing genetics. That’s why I adopt contemporary practice in the technical literature, which uses ancestral population or simply population instead of race or ethnicity …
[Murray also writes on pg 166]
The material here does not support the existence of the classically defined races.
(Nevermind the fact that Murray’s and Herrnstein’s The Bell Curve was highly responsible for bringing “scientific racism” into the 21st century—despite protestations to the contrary that his work isn’t “scientifically racist.”)
In any case, we do not need to dispense with the term race. We only need to deflate the term (Hardimon, 2017; see also Spencer, 2014). Rejecting claims from those termed biological racial realists by Kaplan and Winther (2014), both Hardimon (2017) and Spencer (2014; 2019) deflate the concept of race—that is, their concepts only discuss what we can see, not what we can’t. Their concepts are deflationist in that they take the physical differences from the racialist concept (and reject the psychological assumptions). Murray, in fact, is giving into this “orthodoxy” when he says that we should stop using the term “race.” It’s funny, Murray cites Lewontin (an eliminativist about race) but advocates eliminativism of the word but still keeping the underlying “guts” of the concept, if you will.
We should only take the concept of “race” out of our vocabulary if, and only if, our concept does not refer. So for us to take “race” out of our vocabulary it would have to not refer to any thing. But “race” does refer—to proper names for a set of human population groups and to social groups, too. So why should we get rid of the term? There is absolutely no reason to do so. But we should be eliminativist about the racialist concept of race—which needs to exist if Murray’s concept of race holds.
There is, contra Murray, material that corresponds to the “classically defined races.” This can be seen with Murra’s admission that he read the “genetics technical literature”. He didn’t say that he read any philosophy of race on the matter, and it clearly shows.
To quote Hardimon (2017: 97):
Deflationary realism provides a worked-out alternative to racialism—it is a theory that represents race as a genetically grounded, relatively superficial biological reality that is not normatively important in itself. Deflationary realism makes it possible to rethink race. It offers the promise of freeing ourselves, if only imperfectly, from the racialist background conception of race.
Spencer (2014) states that the population clusters found by Rosenberg et al’s (2002) K = 5 run are referents of racial terms used by the US Census. “Race terms” to Spencer (2014: 1025) are “a rigidly designating proper name for a biologically real entity …” Spencer’s (2019b) position is now “radically pluralist.” Spencer (2019a) states that the set of races in OMB race talk (Office of Management and Budget) is one of many forms “race” can take when talking about race in the US; the set of races in OMB race talk is the set of continental human populations; and the continental set of human populations is biologically real. So “race” should be understood as proper names—we should only care if our terms refer or not.
Murray’s philosophy of race is philosophically empty—Murray just uses “commensense” to claim that the clusters found are races, which is clear with his claim that ME/NA people constitute two more races. This is almost better than Rushton’s three-race model but not by much. In fact, Murray’s defense of race seems to be almost just like Jensen’s (1998: 425) definition, which Fish (2002: 6) critiqued:
This is an example of the kind of ethnocentric operational definition described earlier. A fair translation is, “As an American, I know that blacks and whites are races, so even though I can’t find any way of making sense of the biological facts, I’ll assign people to my cultural categories, do my statistical tests, and explain the differences in biological terms.” In essence, the process involves a kind of reasoning by converse. Instead of arguing, “If races exist there are genetic differences between them,” the argument is “Genetic differences between groups exist, therefore the groups are races.”
So, even two decades later, hereditarians are STILL just assuming that race exists WITHOUT arguments and definitions/theories of race. Rushton (1997) did not define “race”, and also just assumed the existence of his three races—Caucasians, Mongoloids, and Negroids; Levin (1997), too, just assumes their existence (Fish, 2002: 5). Lynn (2006: 11) also uses a similar argument to Jensen (1998: 425). Since the concept of race is so important to the hereditarian research paradigm, why have they not operationalized a definition and rely on just assuming that race exists without argument? Murray can now join the list of his colleagues who also assume the existence of race sans definition/theory.
Conclusion
Hardimon’s and Spencer’s concepts get around Fish’s (2002: 6) objection—but Murray’s doesn’t. Murray simply claims that the clusters are races without really thinking about it and providing justification for his claim. On the other hand, philosophers of race (Hardimon, 2017; Spencer, 2014; 2019a, b) have provided sound justification for the belief in race. Murray is not fair to the social constructivist position (great accounts can be found in Zack (2002), Hardimon (2017), Haslanger (2000)). Murray seems to be one of those “Social constructivists say race doesn’t exist!” people, but this is false: Social constructs are real and the social can does have potent biological effects. Social constructivists are realists about race (Spencer, 2012; Kaplan and Winther, 2014; Hardimon, 2017), contra Helmuth Nyborg.
Murray (2020: 17) asks “Why me? I am neither a geneticist nor a neuroscientist. What business do I have writing this book?” If you are reading this book for a fair—philosophical—treatment for race, look to actual philosophers of race and don’t look to Murray et al who do not, as shown, have a definition of race and just assume its existence. Spencer’s Blumenbachian Partitions/Hardimon’s minimalist races are how we should understand race in American society, not philosophically empty accounts.
Murray is right—race exists. Murray is also wrong—his kinds of races do not exist. Murray is right, but he doesn’t give an argument for his belief. His “orthodoxy” is also right about race—since we should accept pluralism about race then there are many different ways of looking at race, what it is, and its influence on society and how society influences it. I would rather be wrong and have an argument for my belief then be right and appeal to “commonsense” without an argument.
*smdh* 😶
Who tf are u?
Ur shit weak brotha…
Wow. I did not curse at you. Move on. 😎
Damn is a curse word…
I think rr probably has autism.
RR has a separate blog for this, ah let me politely say, stuff. Why are you publishing his stuff here?
he asked to be published here so he could reach a much, much bigger readership than his blog reaches. i agreed because i always need more well researched content to satisfy my high IQ readership. but now that i’m taking the time to read it, the article has some logical errors that swank already tried to explain to rr long ago.
But you never disclose your amount of readership which could be in the double digits and RR in single digits.
you might want to double those figures
“I would rather be wrong and have an argument for my belief then be right and appeal to “commonsense” without an argument.”
The problem is you don’t have a coherent argument. You say Middle Easterners & North African aren’t race because they don’t meet these criterion:
(C1) … a group is distinguished from other groups of human beings by patterns of visible physical features
(C2) [the] members are linked by a common ancestry peculiar to members of that group, and
(C3) [they] originate from a distinctive geographic location
But distinctive pattern of physical features is subjective. Middle Easterners do have a distinctive pattern of physical features to people familiar with the region:
And so do North Africans:
They also have a common ancestry and originate from distinctive geographic locations (West Asia & North Africa respectively)
Europeans and ME/NAs share ancestry. And those people look southern European. Hell, look at Asaad. Check out fig. 1 in Rosenberg et al (2002) and get back to me.
what does figue 1 have to do with whether or not a cluster forms “a group is distinguished from other groups of human beings by patterns of visible physical features”. You say K = 5 is the only correct number because each cluster fits this criterion. But how do Oceanians (one of the 5 clusters in K = 5) form a pattern of visible physical features when some of them look African and others look mongoloid:
PP we’ve been through this year’s ago about Oceanians. Let’s not rehash this.
Further, the cluster refers to the OMB and therefore refers to proper names for a set of human populations. I’m a pluralist when it comes to racial classification and, again, there is none for Murray’s concept (which Hardimon refuted).
PP we’ve been through this year’s ago about Oceanians. Let’s not rehash this.
Further, the cluster refers to the OMB and therefore refers to proper names for a set of human populations. I’m a pluralist when it comes to racial classification and, again, there is none for Murray’s concept (which Hardimon refuted). In American racial discourse, ME/NA people see Caucasian so therefore under OMB race theory they are Caucasian.
You write:
Just because STRUCTURE identifies a population as genetically distinct, it does not entail that the population in question is a race because they do not fit the criteria for racehood. The fact that the clusters correspond to major areas means that the clusters represent continental-level minimalist races so races, therefore, exist (Hardimon, 2017: 85-86). But to be counted as a continental-level minimalist race, the group must fit the following conditions (Hardimon, 2017: 31):
(C1) … a group is distinguished from other groups of human beings by patterns of visible physical features
(C2) [the] members are linked by a common ancestry peculiar to members of that group, and
(C3) [they] originate from a distinctive geographic location
Just so I understand, are you saying K = 5 fits all three of these conditions? Yes or No?
So say that one doesn’t “have a coherent argument” means the argument is self-contradictory—where is the contradiction in the argument?
So say that one doesn’t “have a coherent argument” means the argument is self-contradictory—where is the contradiction in the argument?
“fig. 1 in Rosenberg et al (2002)”
Mostly blue: Eurasians; mostly green: Pacific Islanders; mostly purple: Native Americans; mostly orange: Sub-Saharan Africans; and mostly pink: East Asians.
the races of man as they are accepted or were among the laity very neatly coincides with regions demarcated by boundaries of little or no human habitation and thus very little or no gene flow.
examples: the sahara, the himalaya, the central asian and western china deserts, etc.
humans can recognize faces but can’t ecognize races?
cut your hair and shave your beard or you are a silly goose.
races develop because…
interbreeding subpopulations of man…
because…
human populations were CUT OFF from one another by uninhabitable regions.
“cut your hair and shave your beard or you are a silly goose.”
Nah
Are beards gay because it hides jaw structure or is it not gay because growing a beard shows that you are mature and/or gays are smooth all over (usually)?
“Are beards gay because it hides jaw structure or is it not gay because growing a beard shows that you are mature and/or gays are smooth all over (usually)?”
The only people who try to make fun of beards are those men who can’t grow beards—sucks.
You gotta give it to RR…he might not be the smartest dude but he definitely has some crazy dedication all skills. His conscientiousness must be ridiculous! The guy reads in-depth, critically analyzes it, and tries to make sense of the nonsensical.
On the other hand, he definitely parrots other people’s claims, has no imagination, and can’t really abstract things well.
Guess life’s just a mixed bag of choices.
“On the other hand, he definitely parrots other people’s claims, has no imagination, and can’t really abstract things well.”
Care to elaborate?
Yeah, sure. RR, you have no real ideas that originate from your mind, only verifiable ones that come from the minds of others. This means that your abstractness and originality is lacking. You focus too much on what other people say instead of thinking for yourself. You don’t take speculation and originality into account absolutely whatsoever. You are not creatively driven but your analyses of others is very strong and thorough. I mean, I can go on further but I think most people who’ve read your works understand what I’m saying.
That’d make sense—if I claimed that these were my original thoughts. I have plenty of “originality” on my blog, how many articles would you want me to show you? You should also know that if you think you think you have an original idea, that you probably don’t. I’m sure you have an idea of how references work.
Now let’s discuss Chuck’s book.
I think Murray’s goal was to show the Race Does Not Exist crowd that humans can be broken up into groups. I doubt he cared that much about the difference bw a quasi-racial cluster and a race.
But he was talking to racial constructivists, so they do believe that race exists. Social constructivists are realists. Dorothy Roberts is a political racial constructivist. To gwe, race is a political entity.
The point is that constructivists don’t deny that there are genetic differences. It’s so clearly obvious that Murray has never read the work of Roberts, Hardimon, Spencer, Appiah, Haslanger, et al and it shows in his book.
The point is that constructivists don’t deny that there are genetic differences. It’s so clearly obvious that Murray has never read the work of Roberts, Hardimon, Spencer, Appiah, Haslanger, et al and it shows in his book.
PP modded my last reply, but I agree.
Considering how important the concept of race is to hereditarians, it’s really funny that the hereditarians have no definition nor theory of race.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/07/my-baby-had-devils-eyes-the-reality-of-postpartum-psychosis
This is a really interesting article on post birth psychosis which is a cousin to the oft claimed post natal depression women get after giving birth.
This woman describes going psychotic and not sleeping for days. This is way more acute than anything I’ve had.
I forget the stats but a really large percentage of major depressives develop psychotic symptoms too. It might be one third.
I think thats what set paranoid personality disorder off in me.
So what happens to Mayor Pete now? Does he go back to being the Mayor of South Bend. Seems a more glorious career awaits. The corporate dems/wall st jews seem to love him.
So I’m doing the rally game at elite level and the times the computer opponents is posting arent possible without restarting a course 100 times plus. Some of the world records posted by real people look like hacking to me. There was one course where some Portuguese player had a world record 1 minute and 40 seconds better than anyone else which means hes a hacker.
Most of my times are in the top 5% of real people and yet I’m ranking 20th or lower against computer opponents. The game is not balanced properly.
It reminds me a bit of older games that arent balanced the higher the difficulty. For example in age of empires 2 the old ai was basically just given infinite resources at a higher difficulty which is a quantum leap from standard difficulty.
New Doom game coming. And age of empires 3 definitive edition. Going to be a busy year.
It’s interesting the way video game companies dont benefit from tech type business valuations. They are basically software companies but their pe ratios are more like traditional businesses. They even make more profit than most tech companies.
So I’m receeding hairline on one side of my head. I think if you make it to 40 without balding you’ve done well. I think most men bald by the time they are 80 or so. Blacks tend to go bald quickest, maybe owing to elevated dht levels. At the same time my anecdotal experience is that often pretty timid and girly men go bald early too. This may be from stress perhaps.
Business schools are such a RIP off. Most of the material for an MBA can be covered by armchair reading. Most of the academics have no business experience not to mention successful experience. I struggle to see the value of an MBA both for the person taking it and the company hiring one. McKinsey bain and boston consulting still arbitrarily hire them though.
Theres a more rigorous subject called operations research which is basically solving business problems through math. I’m surprised McKinsey dont hire graduates from this.
All of this is true. It speaks to PP’s point about watered-down credential-ism.
Most business programs make their students take a single operations class, and most students think it’s the hardest thing ever. I actually enjoyed the undergrad one I took though.
Melo, check out Thought in a Hostile World by Kim Sterelny. He argues that thought is a response to threat. Book seems right up your alley. Sterelny is one of the best philosophers of biology/mind out there.
Damn a lot of these sentences are hard to understand 🤔😅. Rr did you say you were Southern Italian? Maybe it is the greater cluster or group that Jews, Ashkenazi and Sephardi, are mathematically determined to be a part of that produces disproportionate numbers of academics and not solely the Jews themselves. Maybe the cluster would be found to consist of Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardi Jews, Italian Jews, Southern Italians, and Southern Greeks.
I would not be part of this group. I am Polish and to a lesser degree Ukrainian and Russian. My DNA results say I am 1% Ashkenazi Jewish.
I’m more ashkenazi Jew than u at 2%.
What countries were your grandparents and great-grandparents born in LOADED
The grandparents were all born in the Indian subcontinent. however, my paternal side of the family had migrated from the area of Turkey and my mother’s side traces their ancestry back from northern Pakistan (Sindh area/province) and Southern Afghanistan.
I’m watching a dating show and theyre showing a guy dating a black woman. I wonder if there is an option to not date black women if you appear on the show. I felt sorry for him.
Pumpkin Person: White nerd by day, chocolate/black knight by night. Protector of QuEeN OPraH/orPAh.
LOL Im surprised you let this guy insult you and always moderate me.
Pumpkin since you’re an expert on chocolate people, do you know some black virgins? Being so smart you ought to know where the unicorns are.