In honor of Super Bowl Sunday, I thought I’d ask whether physical abilities have a general factor (g), the same way cognitive abilities do? For those who don’t know, Charles Spearman famously discovered that all cognitive abilities are positively correlated, suggesting they all are influenced by some general ability, and thus the most efficient way to measure someone’s overall cognition was to test the most g loaded abilities (since these best predict all other abilities).
The existence of a physical g factor would be useful (though not necessary) for assigning people an AQ (athletic quotient), the same way IQ tests assign folks an IQ (intelligence quotient).
Cognitive and physical abilities are both forms of voluntary goal directed behaviors that can be objectively graded on a scale of proficiency, but because cognitive abilities are more prestigious (at least after high school), we increasingly see athletes trying to claim their abilities are mental instead of physical. And so we have commenters claiming that weight lifting requires not just physical strength, but coordination, and terms like kinesthetic intelligence have emerged in the literature.
We all have our biases, which is why I love factor analysis, which allows us to objectively decide what category or sub-category different abilities fall into. Factor analysis is a technique where you look at the intercorrelation between a large number of traits, and notice that some intercorrelate better than others, allowing you to infer sources of variance that are common to some traits but not others, allowing you to group traits into different clusters.
When you control for these common sources of variance, you find that some traits still intercorrelate better than others, allowing you you to infer higher sources of common variance. This allows for a hiearchy of categories and sub-categories that is wholly objective, requiring no judgement or decision on anyone’s part, and yet still agrees with common sense.

As the late Arthur Jensen noted, when you factor analyze hundreds of clothing measurements from every body part dimension imaginable, you find almost all of the variance can be explained by just three factors: general body size, body length, and body width analogous to how every location on Earth can be explained by just three data points (latitude, longitude, and altitude).
When we give people an extremely diverse series of tasks, we find that most tasks that are commonly thought of as physical (running, jumping, lifting) are more positively correlated with each other than with tasks commonly thought of as mental (repeating numbers, defining words, solving jig-saw puzzles). To be sure, there are certain hybrid abilities that load equally on both domains.
When the 11 subtests on the WAIS-R were factor analyzed, it turned out that even though David Wechsler thought he was measuring 11 different parts of intelligence, most of the variance in scores could be explained by just four factors: general intelligence, verbal knowledge, spatial ability, and short-term memory.

Similarly, when ten different physical tests were factor-analyzed, it was found that most of the variance could be explained by just five factors: general athleticism, strength, running ability, coordination, and balance. I find it interesting that measures of physical strength (hand-grip, chinning) have negative loadings on both coordination and balance, suggesting an evolutionary trade-off between muscle and control as we marched up the evolutionary tree.

It’s interesting to note that just as vocabulary was the single best measure of cognitive g in the cognitive battery, 100-yard dash was the single best measure of athletic g in the athletic battery. So just as people who score at the one in a billion level (relative to Western norms) on g loaded cognitive tests are said to have IQs of 190+, people who would score at the one in a billion level on the 100-yard dash can claim an AQ of 190+. That doesn’t mean their athletic g is truly at the one in a billion level (even the 100-yard dash is an imperfect measure of athletic g) but it’s about as close to a perfect measure of athletic g as the best IQ tests are to perfect measures of cognitive g.

Of course the best measure of athleticism would be to give people the full battery of physical tests and calculate the composite score, but if you wanted a short-form, you would just take the 100-yard dash, just like when psychologists wanted a short-form for IQ, they would just test Vocabulary, though more recent research suggests that g loading of Vocabulary has declined or was never as high as once thought.
Which brings us to another key point: The factor structure of any correlation matrix is sensitive to what tests you include, so skeptics might want to see a similar factor structure replicated in several diverse random selections of tests before accepting the factors and their loadings on various tests.
50-yard dash and Balance has a negative correlation of -0.50, that’s odd. Shorter people are slower but have better balance perhaps?
Just to be clear, runners don’t lack balance in an absolute sense, but they may when other sub-factors are held constant
Hahaha what are you talking about?
View at Medium.com
you’re a huge fan of college admission testing so he’s tearing you a new one too
nope. the opposite. the ASVAB was unable to distinguish real intelligence above average as measured by the SAT. but the ASVAB is used to sort military recruits, who are far below the average of SAT takers.
and that’s a figure from f&d. there’s another figure from f&d using various functions of SAT scores which is a straight line vs ASVAB.
What do you mean it was unable to distinguish above average? People with ASVAB IQs of 130 average higher SAT scores than people with ASVAB IQs of 120:
x axis = real ability
y axis = IQ test
as real ability increases above the mean at 0, the y value does not increase.
the frey and dildoman graph has SAT as the x axis.
but it is true that the SAT should have a narrower range than the ASVAB as there are a small number of very smart people who join the military, but there are no very dumb people who sit the SAT.
are you talking about graph A?
PP addressed that article already, genius…
Two things:
1. I feel like Pumpkin is becoming one of the greatest (maybe the greatest?????) bloggers in HBD, tackling issues that other bloggers were afraid to address, not necessarily out of fear of repercussion of violating political correctness, but because the issues require too sophisticated of thinking for them. And now PP has now added the power of Factor Analysis to his toolkit. Which I don’t PP has ever discussed in one of his posts before, so PP is now so advanced, it’s crazy.
Go Pumpkin!!!💃I wish I could comment more but my personal life is kinda crazy/busy right now…
2. I think someone else did a study to discover the g factor of athletic ability. I personally believe there’s at least 3 separate major abilities of under athleticism: endurance, sprinting, and fine-motor control. This study kinda confirms that sprinting and fine-motor control load oppositely. But sprinting ability is almost universally important, and requires more upper body strength than people realize, so it make sense that it’s sorta the”g” of athletic ability.
In that Epstein book Sports Gene, be mentioned that arm span (even more so than height) explained much of the variance in basketball ability. Like, if you know a guy’s arm span, beyond a certainly length you can be 100% assured he’ll end up in the NBA.
I think I’ve also mentioned before: it would be cool if someone did a study of multi-sport athletes like Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders to see what they have in common…
Very nice of you to say that! Thank you!
Those athletic tests arent diverse enough. 5 of them are basically the same thing. And none of them are martial combat, the number 1 sport in human history.
that’s the way IQ tests are too. the battery isn’t a random sample of all tests. the battery is chosen such that the subtests are well correlated.
the result is that what is called “g loading” is just membership in a subset of the set of all tests.
Except no one has been able to create a mental test that doesn’t positively correlate with the g factor of conventional IQ tests in large representative samples afaik, except for perhaps a few tests of divergent thinking which don’t qualify as abilities as Jensen defines it (voluntary behaviour that can be objectively graded by a clear standard of proficiency)
Actually I think the BITCH test negatively correlates with IQ, but then it’s culturally biased against whites & thus would be excluded from analysis I think.
As near as possible the tests should replicate the actual problems which the abilities are regarded as being helpful for.
If you were doing an atheltic test for example, I don’t understand why you wouldn’t just make the subtests based on real sports or human activities. If youre trying to find a general factor that predicts how good youll be at sport, then make the sports the test.
In this way I agree with Robert that the SAT is in a way a more ‘real IQ test’, than remembering a series of random numbers and being asked to recite them or other such activities.
To my mind, the best athleticism test I can think of is some sort of martial art where strength, speed, agility, hand eye coordination and endurance are tested.
Actions are goal-directed. Not behavior.
https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/12/30/athletic-ability-and-iq/
“suggesting an evolutionary trade-off between muscle and control”
Hahaha. Try doing a chin-up without neuromuscular coordination.
“Cognitive and physical abilities are both forms of voluntary goal directed behaviors that can be objectively graded on a scale of proficiency, but because cognitive abilities are more prestigious (at least after high school), we increasingly see athletes trying to claim their abilities are mental instead of physical. And so we have commenters claiming that weight lifting requires not just physical strength, but coordination, and terms like kinesthetic intelligence have emerged in the literature.”
Please tell me you’re not claiming that athletes don’t need (neuromuscular) coordination…
It depends on the sport.
You’re still wrong.
Any child knows that strength and physical coordination are largely independent. Haven’t you ever seen a fight where a really strong guy loses because he lacks agility? In the study Jensen cited, there was zero correlation between both hand grip and chinning with mirror star tracing, pursuit rotor tracking and one-leg balance.
How strong can one be with no coordination? PP, you’re out of your depth here
How strong can one be with no coordination?
That’s not the question. The question is how much of variance in strength performance is explained by coordination. The answer according to at least one study is roughly zero.
Will someone with less coordination be stronger than someone with more coordination? Why or why not? What about balance/stabilization strength and power exercises?
In many cases yes. There are people in the special olympics who would score in the impaired range on physical coordination tests, yet can lift more than 99.9% of men.
If you’re strong, just be proud of your strength. Stop trying to claim credit for traits you don’t necessarily have.
Most men would rather have muscle than coordination but because of your extreme inferiority complex, you can’t just be proud of what you have.
It would be like Michael Jackson saying “dancing requires great strength. The fact that I can do the moonwalk proves I’m stronger than Arnold”
We’ve had this discussion before. Those in the special Olympics have high NMC. They’d not be able to, say, lift heavy weights without it.
They’re not physically coordination in the conventional sense or as defined by coordination tests used by the military or U.S. department of Labor.
In terms of strength, they most definitely are. I’ve friend people like that. I’ve seen their NMC go up. No one with low NMC will be lifting heavy weight. That’s a fact.
How do you measure neuro-muscular control?
Electromyography tests.
Found a very interesting comment on another forum:
I just found myself wondering do any other dyspraxics on this page find lifting wieghts a big thrill such as i do? I lift wieghts every day and am always researching new supplements and prohormones to take to get me bigger. Bodybuilding is one of the few things that is not disadvantageous because i have dyspraxia. Its an outlet to all my bad days i have, plus success is based primarily on hard work. I am very competive and full of testosterone but i feel that any sport or activity i do is too challenging. In bodybuilding you dont need any sense of coordination or brain power (plus socializing is not involved). Anyway let me know if anyone feels the way i do or has any other hobbies or interests that are not affected by dyspraxia. THANKS
http://www.dyspraxicadults.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2145
Interesting
“you don’t need any sense of coordination or brain power”
Literal bullshit.
pumpkinperson
“Haven’t you ever seen a fight where a really strong guy loses because he lacks agility”
Physical power(strength) and speed are very very closely related. In some instances however there comes a point where excessive muscle mass comes at the expense of speed. However I guarantee you that if you take a sprinter and pit them against a body builder of equal weight and height in a test of strength the sprinter will probably thrash the body builder.
As for your point regarding the independence of power and coordination I would agree that they are independent but not necessarily exclusionary of one another. It’s only at extremely high levels that there seems to be a trade off.
Different muscle types are needed for fine motor movement and power movements and all modern humans are equiped with both at varying degrees(as opposed to chimps that seem to be extremely high on power very low on fine motor control). There is no reason however that one could not be proficient in both even Olympic level power athletes.
I think you must be thinking of body builders who over train their power muscles and probably massively neglect their fine motor muscles. IMO as long as you take the time to keep your fine motor skills at a reasonable level there is no reason you couldn’t maintain both. Perfect examples of this are football players(soccer). Cristiano Ronaldo is considered to be one of the greatest players ever AND so happens to be one of the fastest players(comfortably an 11 second 100m). The skill with which he handles the ball is beyond your imagination. There are countless such examples. I think the issue exists for those that simply lack or have not trained their fine motor muscles adequately. Football is one of those sports where exceptional coordination is needed as well as a good deal of power(athleticism). There is no reason why one could not have both, after all isn’t that what athletic talent is all about?
As for your point regarding the independence of power and coordination I would agree that they are independent but not necessarily exclusionary of one another.
I’m simply saying weight lifting does not require as much physical coordination as most other sports in my humble opinion. Of course some athletes have both incredible strength and incredible coordination (mike tyson perhaps) and indeed if there’s a g factor for athleticism, we’d expect all physical abilities to be positively correlated to at least a small degree (though the correlations may turn negative when you control for athletic g)
PP,
“I’m simply saying weight lifting does not require as much physical coordination as most other sports in my humble opinion.”
Your humble opinion is wrong. Tell this to any fitness professional and see what they say.
pumpkin head,
“However I guarantee you that if you take a sprinter and pit them against a body builder of equal weight and height in a test of strength the sprinter will probably thrash the body builder.”
False. The two train differently. Sprinters do a ton of SAQ drills (speed, agility, quickness). Bodybuilders train in the hypertrophy range. Power exercises (what SAQ drills are) are done around 45% of 1RM and low reps with more rest time whereas bodybuilders train in the 6-12 rep range.
“I think you must be thinking of body builders who over train their power muscles and probably massively neglect their fine motor muscles”
Please. If you don’t know what you’re talking about then don’t talk about it. This idiocy on this blog about bodybuilders not having coordination motor skills is completely retarded. Most bodybuilders don’t train their “power muscles”, and you’re talking about stability/balance training. Their “fine motor muscles” are adequately trained – look up the mind-muscle connection.
There’s clearly a ton of bullshit in this blog about athleticism. Which I attribute to people here (1) never having trained hard in their lives and (2) never having trained people and watching their progression with an adequate program.
RR, if weight lifting requires coordination, how did I find a comment from a dyspraxic saying it’s the one sport he’s good at? He would know better than you what requires coordination since he has a coordination impairment. Use your common sense. If weight lifting required so much coordination, it wouldn’t require so much muscle mass (since the coordination would be enough).
“He would know better than you”
I’m a trained professional PP.
“If weight lifting required so much coordination, it wouldn’t require so much muscle mass”
I have no comment. This is ridiculous.
“I’m simply saying weight lifting does not require as much physical coordination as most other sports in my humble opinion.”
It requires a good deal of timing. Each motion needs to be timed to perfection but of course you are right it does not require the finesse of figure skating for example. However unless they are born with some sort of neurological or muscular deficiency there is no reason you should expect that a champion weight lifter would not have reasonable fine motor skills, in fact I would argue that they would very likely have above average fine motor skills as a bare minimum.
Imagine an Olympic weightlifter going to snatch 400 pounds. Tell me they don’t have high NMC. That’s how utterly ridiculous PP is being.
RaceRealist
Pound for pound a top flight sprinter will have superior muscular composition. The power the sprinter could produce would simply be unmatched. Body builders generally train for looks, what exists under the hood qualitatively does not matter at all(though I’m sure there are some athletically talented body builders). In fact sprinters tend to be able to pack more power into less muscle cross section due to the superior quality of the muscle fibres. Now of course the training is different but as I noted same height, same weight, IMO no contest, the superior athlete wins every time. I’ve seen things in the gym with pro sprinters you wouldn’t believe. I’m not too bad if I do say so myself(well I used to be anyway), could beat people twice my size in arm wrestling.
“Please. If you don’t know what you’re talking about then don’t talk about it. This idiocy on this blog about bodybuilders not having coordination motor skills is completely retarded.”
I did not say anything of the sort. What I was alluding to was that in SOME cases we might find that a hard core body builder might neglect their fine motor skills or might be somewhat lacking in fine motor muscles. Not al,l in fact not very many at all, but perhaps more so among body builders than the general population. Of course modern training is much more sophisticated than that so such deficiencies would be pre-empted as I’m sure you would illustrate to me in great detail if need be. I’m not trying to belittle body builders, in fact I quite like to hit the gym from time to time though I prefer aesthetic body building myself. Jujimufu is the absolute limit for me.
“The power the sprinter could produce would simply be unmatched.”
Right. Because both athletes train differently.
There’s a distinction between “power” and “strength.”
“I’ve seen things in the gym with pro sprinters you wouldn’t believe.”
Like?
“hard core body builder might neglect their fine motor skills or might be somewhat lacking in fine motor muscles.”
Nope.
Gains are noticeably smaller if you do not practice proper form. Weight lifting and exercise in general increases memory and intelligence. Being a body builder or power-lifter requires NMC. Not to say other sports still wouldn’t have proportionately more physical coordination.
Gains are noticeably smaller if you do not practice proper form.
I consider that more technique than coordination.
RaceRealist
“Right. Because both athletes train differently.”
Nonsense, I’m talking about qualitative differences in muscular composition. Body builders simply train for a certain look, they are not selected for musculoskeletal performance talent, at best they are selected for aesthetic talent. The only power athletes that might trump sprinters in feats of strength are weight lifters(note the difference between a weight lifter and a body builder). They likely have a slightly different power profile one based on brute strength. In some cases sprinters apply over 1000 lb of force every time their foot strikes the ground(500%+ their body weight). If you still think that a body builder can match a sprinter you are delusional. Note that my comparisons are pound for pound.
“Like?”
Ben Johnson could squat 700 lb and bench press 450. I have seen similar feats by pro sprinters and as you said their training is different and they generally avoid such weights because for fear of injury. Just because they don’t train with such weights doesn’t mean they cannot do it. I don’t think you understand what it means to be an Olympic level power athlete. They are freaks of nature. What is a body builder if not some random guy who got the bug and wants to pack on muscle and might have some talent for building bulk though most of it is due to roids.
“I consider that more technique than coordination.”
If you have no coordination your technique will be garbage.
“If you still think that a body builder can match a sprinter you are delusional”
I never made that claim. I claimed they train differently – which they do (I have trained many bodybuilders/power athletes).
Read my blog. I’ve discussed this at length.
“I don’t think you understand what it means to be an Olympic level power athlete”
I kind of do – I have trained people close to that level.
“What is a body builder if not some random guy who got the bug and wants to pack on muscle and might have some talent for building bulk though most of it is due to roids.”
hahaha
Please learn English:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/behavior
There’s a distinction between “action” “behavior”, PP. Actions are intentional and behavior is dispositional.
It *might* be an esoteric distinction in philosophy, but it’s not a distinction recognized by experts in psychology or biology nor by the general public.
They are distinct. Read Davidson.
Davidson’s definitions (even if you’re correctly describing them) are irrelevant if they’re not accepted by other experts or by the public. Words only have the definitions society gives them.
If you’re describing something “goal directed” you’re describing an action. “Goal directed behavior” is an oxymoron.
It’s an oxymoron to you because you’re defining it that way. Other people don’t use your definitions. Why can’t you comprehend that?
Even Davidson did not use your definition. He conceived of action as a type of behavior, not as different from behavior:
…Donald Davidson’s theory of action, which determines action as behavior caused by an agent in a particular situation
But even if Davidson did agree with you, I still wouldn’t use your definition because it’s inconsistent with how the word behavior is used in biology, psychology, law and everyday life.
“caused by an agent”
Behavior isn’t caused by an agent; behavior is how one reacts to stimulus. Actions are intentionally done by the agent. Hence “agency.”
I think he defines behavior as reaction to stimulus and action as intentional reaction to stimulus.
In other words action would be a more specific form of behavior.
Thus action = intentional behavior in Davidson lingo.
So Davidson would have no problem with term “intentional behavior”, but he would consider the term “unintentional action” to be an oxymoron.
In Essays on Actions and Events Davidson defines “action” as something the agent intentionally does.
Propositional attitudes motivate the action of agents.
He’s just defining behaviour as what you do & action as what you intentionally do. Ergo action is just another word for intentional behaviour in his eyes. He’s saying behaviours can be intentional or unintentional but actions can only be intentional.
“Intentional behavior” is an oxymoron. They’re clearly distinct in the literature. Action is intentional while behavior is dispositional.
My last words on this. Just read Davidson because he clearly distinguishes them. Read some action theory too.
He subdivides behaviour into action vs unintentional but both are behaviours (according to experts on Davidson)
Unless you have a quote from him saying actions are not behaviours or behaviours are not intentional, it should indeed be your last word on this
You need to read action theory and read Davidson’s work.
RR,
believe in me, there are words that are synonymous. Behavior and action is an example.
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/behavior
”Action is intentional while behavior is dispositional”.
This don’t refute that what is intentional cannot be dispositional.. Disposition is before of intention.
RR Donald Davidson is a (very good) philosopher who reasons about philosophical problems like how would you be able to understand a new language if you were thrown into a tribe speaking an unknown dialect ? And then he elaborates is theory about radical intepretation.
It has no standing in psychology except if someone uses his concept in the context of this social science (even to amend or refute some conceptions).
You are just picking some words completely out of their context of meaning.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Davidson_(philosopher)
No I’m not. Read Actions, Reasons and Causes.
Yes you are. Read the Stanford article on Action. Actions are equivalent to Intentional behavior.
Thus, there are different levels of action to be distinguished, and these include at least the following: unconscious and/or involuntary behavior, purposeful or goal directed activity (of Frankfurt’s spider, for instance), intentional action, and the autonomous acts or actions of self-consciously active human agents.
Actions are equivalent to Intentional behavior.
Thank you.
You’re welcome.
One can decide (intend) to act; one cannot decide (intend) to behave. Intentions (what actions are) are mental states with propositional content.
We know. That doesn’t contradict what we’re saying.
That’s the distinction between A and B.
Right, the distinction is that one requires intentionality and subsequently is more specific instance. It’s the only fundamental difference, the point still stands.
It’s funny you use Ben Johnson though, because wasn’t he jacked to the hilt on steroids??
He was, but the truth is that they ALL are. Ben Johnson however managed to destroy the field in a way that was only matched 20 years later by Bolt. His time of 9.79 was only matched more than a decade later by Maurice Greene(that’s an eternity in the 100m). It’s a shame what they did to him, I think they couldn’t fathom that their track darling at the time(Carl Lewis) lost, who btw was also jacked to the hilt and failed numerous drug tests. In terms of raw talent Ben Johnson might just be the most talented sprinter in history save for maybe Usain Bolt.
Yes, everyrthing have a factor G. Everything that are similar one each other, belong in the same system, which have a common basis have a common factor…
Why are you calling yourself the true philosopher? A true philosopher would question why he chooses a lifestyle the vast majority of humanity considers immoral.
You can’t choose who you love pill. Would you live a loveless life just cause others disapproved?
I self-examine or self-anallyse myself more thousand times than you in your entire miserably faillure’d life.
AGAIN
AGAIN
AGAIN
what majority of people think DON’T MATTER because avg human is stupid, not enough rational, what’s matter is if this is right or wrong, ESSENTIALLY speaking.
True immorality is your incapability to think in reasonable way.
True immorality is what your vapidly stupid ”white” race has done for all its creepy history.
Example of true immorality:
kill innocent people OR non-human living beings..
I’m a true philosopher because i don’t push my instincts OR biases above my judgement as you, You’re an ANTI-philosopher, a joker.
And what is interesting [or just annoying] is that PSEUDO-PHILLOLSPHY here like to say, repetitively
”morality is an illusion”
So what ”most people find something IMMORAL”**
Can you see how easy is to detect your obvious contradictions*
Paedophiles cant choose who they love either.
But Children can’t give consent so pedophilia is abuse. Gay sex among adults is consensual.
I agree people are stupid and basically download morality from something dumb like CNN or a priest but if a bunch of different cultures, races and peoples from different parts of the world all have a similar view and people seem to not need to be ‘taught’ to hate gays (quite the opposite), it seems obvious to me the ‘house view’ of the creator/’nature’ seems pretty against it.
gays tend not to reproduce, leaving only gay haters as our ancestors. That’s why all cultures instinctively hate gays. Homophobia evolved so we would reproduce. Has nothing to do with morality.
It doesn’t matter whether they can or can’t give consent. You asked me would I live a loveless life if what I loved was seen as immoral. If I was a paedophile I would live a loveless life. 100%.
But pedophiles are victimizing others. Why should people who are not victimizing anyone sacrifice love just because low IQ people are disgusted?
”I agree people are stupid”
YOU are like people honey…
”gays tend not to reproduce, leaving only gay haters as our ancestors.”
OR… insensible people over-reproduce because selfish lifestyle tend to be more efficient than altruist, at least right now.. and specially heterossexual males, the human group virtually responsible for all shit, directly or indirectly, ”humanity” has produced…
”That’s why all cultures instinctively hate gays.”
All* Do you have a source about it*
Welton, Lance, UNZ.*
How explain classical culture* OR three spirit native american cultures*
”Homophobia evolved so we would reproduce. Has nothing to do with morality.”
Human intelligence evolved to detect pedantically mistakes or errors on systems functioning and pragmatic utility. But also evolved PHILOSOPHICALLY, when humans with the emergence of self awareness, started to think in abstract way, i mean, individualizing the elements of reality and also when humans discovered the true reality, beyond their primary or adaptative instincts… By existential melancholy, our huge and fixed disappointment about our existential reality, the pain to be fragile, alone and finite was universalized resulting in enphasis on individual happiness. When we come back to our last two identities, or the most central of our Selves, to be an individual and to be a life. The umbrella or potential expansion of altruistic circles was based on existentiallism, correctly, because all about existential depression is about existential knowledges.
Homophobia is a counter-effect of the human capability to idealize..
“gays tend not to reproduce, leaving only gay haters as our ancestors. That’s why all cultures instinctively hate gays. Homophobia evolved so we would reproduce. Has nothing to do with morality.”
Just-so stories
“heterossexual males, the human group virtually responsible for all shit, directly or indirectly, ”humanity” has produced…””
Repeating the same non-sense over and over again hoping that it sticks? Or you have OCD like Phil too.? Sorry philosopher… you call me names if you want to. Ian Smith you too call me names. I talk about empathy yet in a. moment of blinding rageI. I stopped following my own rule. hate philosopher and I dislike Ian Smith but I never should have abused Smith. As he never abused me. If you are reading this Ian Smith, let me say I am deeply sorry buddy. From the bottom of my heart. I hope you forgive me. Or abuse me and then forgive me.
And philosopher, I have a med school background, so trust me when I say this… you have OCD! For sure.
And I strongly feel that you have other things. You need to get your self checked out.I am not saying all this to lampoon you, I swear on my own life. I am saying this with the intent to advise you to do something about it. But if you want to call me names or abuse me for doingthis, I have no problem. But please take what I said seriously.!!!
Santo, if you have a problem with philosopher talking about homosexuals, it doesn’t mean you have to talk about men that way. You talked about rationality …. be rational.
To the people here except Santo, the people whom I called neuroa typical ….I am deeply sorry from the bottom of my heart. Hope you all forgive me. But if you want to abuse me for that be my guest. PP should join too with them to attack me as I feel like I said something bad to PP too… weeks or months back. But I don’t remember what. If PP can recall it, Pp should join the fun.
Santo. don’t forgive me for asking if you have OCD. Abuse me if you want to though. But next time stop talking about men as a group. They are not machines built as a batch in a robot factory or something. Leave talking aboutmen as a group. You don’t know the half of it.
Most men are smart, they know how to raise kids.It’s just that they don’t get as good advice from others
They are also more suspicious if other people give them parental advise. Even so, most of them do a pretty good job. Women do a good job too but they get fbetter advise from other s and also from t.v shows magazines etc. Also in situations where men suggest better than what women suggest for their kids, most of the time their wives reject those suggestions if wife is the one calling the shots.
Stop perceiving all men as evil or stupid or dumb.
even milo says he knows his proclivity is wrong.
because humans are smart in ways animals aren’t whatever the proclivity there will be some whose proclivity it is…whatever you can think of people getting off on…some people will get off on it.
making perversion an identity is gay.
name,
i will not waste my time with you
You can write a new biblic testament i will not waste 10 minutes reading your materialized instincts…
What milo say don’t matter for me, i’m not a follower of what another people says as you, bugabe…
Bugabe,
repeating with me,
no have sexual perversion…
During long time full-adult males married pre-adolescent females and this was the norm in many ancient societies and it’s still there in some current societies. Today, it’s become scandalous, and it can be described as more wrong because lack of balance between involved individuals than correct, but still complicated to say ”this is a ”perversion” ”.
Exclusive homossexuality will become a perversion if all people engage in it.
Again, because you say something, don’t mean it’s true, but is complicated have any common intellectually satisfactory line with a retard loser as you, a sucker one who love fake philosophies and fell in love with one of the most charlatans ever among famous thinkers, HEIDEGGER. the german Judith Butler with penis because ”talent” on monstrous and sterile verborragy, the capacity to write in extremely difficult ways to hide complete lack of significant insight.
santo,
”name,
i will not waste my time with you
You can write a new biblic testament i will not waste 10 minutes reading your materialized instincts…”
It is not. Looks like thinking logically is not your strong forte.
”
During long time full-adult males married pre-adolescent females and this was the norm in many ancient societies and it’s still there in some current societies”
And false. Men often used to get married before they were 17-18. What you said was more of a rare exception than a rule. That too when they didnt used to find women to marry, who were not adoloscent.
Jair Bolsinaro is honest when he says that if his son said he was gay to him he would hate it. Most fathers, especially the unbrainwashed ones, would hate hate hate finding out their son was a fairy. And they aren’t taught to hate gays in school or the media. Like I said, its the exact opposite today with the way the danes are in control of social conditioning.
Another BASIC problem on your BASIC reasoning
Honesty is not exactly the same thing as SINCERITY.
Honesty is more about ACTIONS than verbalizations.
A person who are very sincere is someone who says whatever she want without thinking about the consequences, it its words will reverberate badly on another people.
Sincere is synonymous of ”indiferent of another feelings or perspectives”, or imature, childish, potentially evil…
A person who are very honest is someone who never lies about their actions.
A cheater is never a honest, but s/he can be sincere..
Rightilt people ALSO HAVE their biases honey!!!
NO HAVE SUCH THING ”BRAINWASHING”
There are
different personality traits interacting and emphasizing different perspectives and priorities, in combination with intellectual levels…
If all ´stupid’ fathers [most fathers are not quite smart] have the chance to choice the features of their sons, truly interesting and smart people would not be chosen or among the least one.
Indeed, the reciprocal is very true, if i had a son i would be extremely sad if he would became a STUPID, CRIMINAL, CORRUPT, PARASITE WHITE MALE TRASH as BOLSONARO.
”Like I said, its the exact opposite today with the way the danes are in control of social conditioning.”
Stop to say like a retard…
People who are sensible about others, and males who have this features always exist, with or without jews on the control of white stupid masses [on the left and mostly on the right… even those who are far far extreme right is still on the jewish game.. like 99,99% of ”white” people”].
Another problem here
Secretly seems ALL progenitors would like to be self-replicated on their sons and live forever or longer than just a one life, so, partly speaking, they tend to project their own expectations on their sons… and these expectations are rarely totally-fullfiled.
For a lot of men, their first reaction to seeing two men holding hands or kissing is disgust. Nobody ‘teaches’ men to react like that. Its not a dumb thing to do to react like that because youre not even thinking. Its a primal reaction. Nobody ‘thinks’ they hate gays. They feel it.
It’s not about ABSOLUTE masculine nature, as you want to believe. How explain the existence of truly heterossexual men who don’t feel disgust*
It’s about the result of over-emphasis on sexual dimorphism, a RELATIVE natural reality…
Seeing Santo get triggered is so funny.
My words ”here” don’t correspond with my emotional state here… i’m not truly triggered after long time experienced with failled thinkers as Pill and you.
It’s funny your ”hard” thinking, so soft… even a smart kid can think better than your highest level of reasoning, i mean, unreasoning.
Ok
Lets face it. Up until the 1990s being gay was universally reviled. I remember when I was young, ‘upstanding citizens’ of the community like teachers, priests, professionals etc would have a negative view on gays or perhaps a view that it was kind of like having a mental disorder, something to be pitied.
The only reason being gay is being promoted and ‘welcomed’ today is the danes. If the danes don’t exist, attitudes to gays even in the West would resemble most other nations in the world. Thats a fact. Don’t deny it.
danes are not the only reason. There’s also a general trend for people to become more moral over time as the culture evolves & as the flynn effect makes us smarter. 2000 years ago the mentally ill were burned alive in baskets. Today they’re given treatment. The same compassion & tolerance has been extended to gays and countless other underdogs. You just can’t relate because you were raised in some backwoods inbred hellhole:
Earlier attitudes about homossexuals was and is, because conserfs are chronically anachronic, ABSOLUTELY immoral…
An individual is not just one of this identities. Even if homossexuality was a reincarnation of true evilness, ”we”, i mean, TRUE philosophers, must take into account a universe of identities which build a individual… to judge him/her.
Jews are promoting the awareness of ALL morally WRONG historical attitudes of western collectivities against themselves… and many people internalize this fault, even in, often, wrong ways.
Yes, i know this is not about kindness or true philosophy, it’s DERIVED, but no have a clear way to define who are the victim and who are the opressor in this relation between jews and ”whites” [and any other human group who commited historically long assaults agains rational or reasonable behaviors towards groups of people… and domesticated living beings]. Europeans, at collectivities, had commited so many INJUSTICES during their creepy history AND against THEMSELVES….
Pill may be a descendent of this part-slaved british people who suffered a lot with elites exploitation but because he’s stupid, he no have even this awareness..
pill is right. sexual perversion qua identity could only be established via (((mass media))) brainwashing and the selling of sex as something different from an attempt at reproduction.
(((dr ruth))) is satan.
but a shallow, irrational, emotional culture follows from women gaining more power. this is sad.
No have sexual perversion… period. Only if you’re a closet ”religious”/mythologue.
Yes, and this prove that ”whites” are on very avg stupid because only a parasitic tribe as jews who can force them to think hard about reality…
The guardians obsessions with blacks, who are 1% of the UK population is something approaching religious in its fervour. They have a documentary now about a black teen ‘whose life is changed by racism’.
These people are intellectually challenged.
Julian Assange thought the Guardians editor was jewish in a tweet a few years back. I bet he thought that because of how socially liberal the paper is, and it had nothing to do with whether he thought the surname Rushbridger was jewish or some other sign.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/04/a-silent-act-of-resistance-the-hidden-tattoo-studios-of-tehran
This is really good example of how even ‘independent’ newspapers with no jewish editors, parrot the anti Iran thing even though there is no rational reason on earth why a british person should have a negative view on Iran.
I bet if you asked the guardian people why Iran is such a bugbear – im not joking – they would say because they saw how evil it was on CNN. This is the type of intellect that passes for journalists at 90% of newspapers.
strike and mike view iran as an aryan country or at least a country with an aryan elite…very unlike the camel jockeys/sand niggers of saudi arabia et al.
farsi is an indo-european language you see, unlike arabic and hebrew and turkish and whatever berber language.
MUST DESTROY IRAN UHHHHHHHHH
MUST DESTROY IRAN UHHHHHHHHH
These people are ZOMBIES.
Santo is right that most people are really dumb. That part I agree with. I think a better word would be ‘gullible’ or ‘naive’. If you read Marx, page 1 says the media is the lapdog of Master, so don’t take it seriously.
Instead most people are taught that Marx was a lunatic or extremist, not because they’re dumb but because they’re gullible. They see a badge on someone chest and think – he wouldnt lie to me.
In this way you can see why society promotes autism. In many ways, its necessary that society is somewhat autistic in its relation to information gathering.
Look at colleges, the ‘brightest’ people are given extra brainwashing. Maybe 10% of them figure out bits and pieces by the time theyve retired. And mostly just through sheer experience.
People who over-believe on their own instincts are naive specially when this ignorance result in their victimation. But even when they are succesfull.
True naivety is all about knowledge and not necessarily a set of circunstances making you a mundane king of material irrelevances.
Do you really think the people you say wrongly are left-brainwashed don’t use their instincts to think like that**
So, i think you are not capable, also, to detect instinctive intellectual behavior over TRUE reflexive. Because most leftists talk about ”to be reflexive”, don’t mean they, on very avg, are or behave like that.
but whereas pill imagines there is a very small number of evil people fooling everyone, i imagine that the world is run by sheep.
Actually the original purpose of universities was to train the priest caste. From what I can see, most universities in the world were founded from clergy origins.
So in the grand system of human relations, higher learning has always been ‘extra brainwashing’.
I sometimes even think the crude religious reactionary stuff people learned was less harmful than the pro-anyone but your neighbour stuff you get from the danes.
i’ve made this observation my self.
when european universities were established the lecture system made sense as books cost as much as a house does now as they were hand written on sheep skin. but they also served the purpose of indoctrination.
in the US the elite MBA is like the officer candidate school of business. as with the military, businesses distinguish between officers and the rest.
To be fair, university is different than before when it was a seminary. For example, subjects that deal with non animate objects like geology or astrophysics really are examples of higher learning. The closer you get to dealing with human beings as the subject matter, the more brainwashing.
exactamundo!
social sciences serve the purpose of allowing dumb people to get degrees and two soc sci departments, economics and psychology, serve additional ideological purposes.
and they were never seminaries per se. they offered degrees in medicine, law, and philosophy, not just theology.
always use the oxford comma!
chomsky points this out. he distinguishes between the “ideological subjects” and the rest. he says this is a contradiction in the system and he sees it in recommendations in graduate school applications.
that is, the non-ideological subjects actually REQUIRE people who aren’t brainwashed in order to make new economically important discoveries, but even in these subjects the system discriminates against those who haven’t been brainwashed/ovinized…and this is a bad thing which retards the progress of natural science…or as professor shoe has said the system selects for “hoop jumpers” and not for talent.
No have brainswashing, there is misleading but never based on nothing [so, no brainswashing here], it’s based on personality traits and personal circumstances. In the end of day, levels of evilness of so-called ”pathological altruist whites” [a history book tell something very different than this ”hbd insight”] has been so rampant and about everything, from natural environment to human beings, and about themselves and ”white resistence” to jewish strategies is SOOOOOOOOOOOO STUPID, SOOOOOOOO WRONG…
several sports programs around the world have worked out a battery of tests to evaluate this. and they did it decades ago. we don’t have to guess about this stuff, or stumble around in the dark, starting from scratch on trying to measure general athletic ability. it sounds like PP is not that knowledgeable about sports and has never heard of a combine.
a lot of them used jumping as one of the main tests, since it’s something everybody can do, you don’t have to be trained to try, and it is predictive. broad jump, vertical, and to a lesser extent long jump were used. in eastern europe a lot of younger athletes are evaluated by their broad jump for ability to do track & field or weight lifting. in the US, being able to dunk a basketball is considered a good test of general athletic ability.
if you did have a general population of 18 year olds, then having them run 100 meters on a track might be a good general test of ability. any guy slower than 12 seconds or so is probably not a good athlete. maybe 13 seconds for big guys that are 250 pounds and up.
but this test doesn’t work at the extreme high end the way the wechsler or old SAT does. any 18 year old who runs 100 meters faster than 10.5 is, well, starting to be optimized for running 100 meters. effectively no 18 year old runs 10.0, but we know the ones who were close, and they were never good athletes in any ball sport, and were all highly specialized for track sprinting. only a few guys who ran 10.0 when they were 21 or 22, were ever even able to play in any professional league, at the fringe levels of the sports. these guys are all super specialized for covering 100 meters as fast as possible and give up lots of general ability to do so.
not much different than bench press, which is one of the other tests they do. in bench press, the higher you get towards 500 pounds or so, the better and stronger you are for sports, especially football. but once you go over 500 or so, now you’re starting to trade other abilities for extreme strength. other sports have a lower number here. 300 pounds for lots of sports. you don’t want to be stronger than that, but being closer to 300 is better than being under 200. and so on.
we also have the ultimate version of this, it’s called decathlon, and it’s easy to look up if you’re not familiar with it. decathlon is like taking those ron hoeflin intelligence tests. maximum difficulty, but ultimately, somewhat pointless. work on a real sport instead, work on a real intellectual problem instead.
So what’s the bottom line? Are you saying there is no g factor for athletic ability like there is for cognitive ability (at least not at the high end)? some deny even cognitive g is a useful construct at the high end (spearman’s law of diminishing returns) though I’m agnostic on this point.
Kinaesthetic intelligence as far as I can tell is one’s ability to master their body’s movements(in other words be in absolute control of one’s body leading to better aim and more harmonious and efficient motion) and to the degree that it can be differentiated from abstract visuo-spatial ability, it also has to do with one’s ability to manoeuvre in optimal and ingenious ways be it in sport or other manual activities(artists come to mind with regard to this). We’ve all seen people that are simply off the charts in their manual dexterity and this seems to apply with anything they lay their hands on, surely there is an inherent quality that gives them this advantage well above anyone even people with 160+ IQ. Of course it may not be as prestigious as a renowned Physicist but still commands respect and admiration as far as I’m concerned.
There’s no doubt it commands respect. Athletes are some of the most admired people in society and in high school they are king. But in general i think the mental commands more respect than the physical, because the mental is what makes us human, the mental is what creates the most value and white collar jobs have more status than blue collar jobs. As a result, some athletes (or their fans) and politically correct types may exaggerate the importance of coordination in their sport and downplay the role of muscles, and terms like kinesthetic intelligence are used describe the coordination itself. This has the added goal of adding racial diversity to our list of Geniuses. Of course i’m not suggesting that everyone who tries to intellectualize athleticism does so out of bias. Some can justify it with genuine research. Nor do i deny that some sports require tons of coordination
pumpkinperson
I agree with most of what you wrote only that coordination in my view is a factor of kinesthetic intelligence. After all one needs to be able to differentiate it from abstract reasoning or visuo-spatial…? Whatever it is that allows one to have impeccable motor control in my view is factored into kinesthetic intelligence. Agreed on society(dumb celebrities mostly) trying to equivocate athletic ability with academic genius. Of course there is no comparison in terms of value to society. One prominent physicist trumps 100 Usain Bolts as far as I’m concerned. As for the idea of athletic genius, well that is one area I’m usually willing to give people a pass as long as they make sure they make the distinction. There are some athletic feats of such complexity and difficulty that will leave most people speechless. I would not extend that to sprinting however. Snooker, ping pong, tennis, soccer, these are some sports where the term genius can be used IMO.
My point is that kinesthethic intelligence should just be called physical coordination, and the term intelligence reserved for higher brain functions that came later in evolution. I see it as neurological ability, but not a mental ability per se (or perhaps it’s a physical-mental hybrid).
“(or perhaps it’s a physical-mental hybrid)”
^^THIS!
It’s not the same as other higher brain function skills but as it requires cognitive real estate and in some cases involves complex functions I think we would be negligent if we did not give it the respect it deserves. Not the same as traditional intelligence(nowhere near) but some kind of intelligence nonetheless.
the part of the brain which most affects athletic ability least affects IQ, the cerebellum.
Excellent point. They say our cerebellum is growing, while the rest of our brain is shrinking, mimicking that of a particular species of monkeys, I think macques if I can recall correctly. That’s interesting to think about as abstract “reasoning” and spatial ability tests have gone up significantly over the last century. I think this can be attributed to our growth in the cerebellum over time.
I also think that the cerebellum plays a key part in long-term episodic memory, especially with being able to remember the visualizations of the moment. This is all speculation, so RR don’t even try to come at me, but I bet episodic and spatial memory can be attributed to better cerebellum functioning and size.
I don’t believe in kinesthetic intelligence. I just have the belief that it’s probably something called associative horizon. Anything that’s not a formal variation of g factor is automatically characterized as associative horizon for me. Basically, this means those “intelligences” known as anything but cognitive ability are just abilities in which we have divergent thought on how to complete something. This in particular can be applied to musical and kinesthetic abilities, where thinking outside the box is the most capable way of developing anything new and unique and of quality. Basically, every aesthetic quality of intelligence can be applied to horizontal/divergent thought. Dancing, for example, is a wonderful example of how one can use divergent thought to create new things and thus have the ability to garner aesthetic quality.
Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard received the endorsement of former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke on Tuesday.
Gabbard, who is mounting a longshot bid for the Democratic presidential nomination, was praised by Duke as “a candidate who will actually put America First rather than Israel First.” The Hawaii Democrat repudiated the endorsement.
Someday these knuckleheads will actually be curious enough as to why Duke invoked Israel. Or should I say, the people reading this news will, because the journalists have always known
if bernie doesn’t run she’s the only dem i’d vote for. warren is a sociopath.
you know she’s good because she’s been accused of being a putin puppet and assad toady by the jews, and she’s not pro open borders.
she’s not genetically hindu.
“The shutdown was a stunt engineered by the President of the United States, one that defied every tenet of fairness and abandoned not just our people – but our values.”
^^ SOTU response excerpt.
Neocon dems are really hot on using that word ‘values’. I sometimes even think that it must be a psy-ops thing. Kind of like how manchurian candidates are triggered to kill someone by a special sound or being shown a particular image.
Sirhan Sirhan is a very notable manchurian candidate. In his latest appeal hearing he said he can’t remember anything the nigh he shot bob Kennedy after meeting a women in the parking lot in the hotel.
But as readers of the Devils Chessboard know, he was killed by the same people who killed his brother.
Jimmy dore is hilaroius when he makes fun of neocon dems and ‘values’.
This is very funny.
Rogan has a dane from the NYT argue that the democrat party needs more neocons like hilary.
Btw, her being a dane explains 100% of her opinions, but rogan and dore are too dumb to know David Duke is right.
it also confirms that jews aren’t so “accomplished” because they have higher IQs. she’s dumb.
not necessarily dumb, just taken by surprise by rogan’s affection for tulsi, since she’s used to hanging out in circles where tulsi is persona non grata.
someone needs to give strike & mike a million in bitcoin.
rock balancing
Dont let pumpkin intimidate you.
LOL, I would never even try to immitimidate the fabulous Cat.
the japanese are “lost aryans”.
I was just reading they were one of the Lost Tribes of Israel. I doubt it, but Pashtuns are. I think the North Caucasus people are too. I have admixture from both ethnic groups.
Matter of fact, the Khazar peoples are from the North Caucasus. The whole thing is crazy. Chechens and Pashtuns are the most extremist Muslim groups.