[please place all off-topic comments in the most recent open-thread. They will not be published here]
Despite conservative claims that blacks benefit from affirmative action, a recent meta-analysis of 56,000 job applications found that whites are still getting 24% more callbacks than Hispanics, and an incredible 36% more than blacks!
This despite the fact that the resumes were identical, except for race.
Northwestern professor Lincoln Quillian explained:
The vast majority of studies used names to do so – “Lakisha” and “Jamal” versus “Emily” or “Brandon” would be the kind of names that signal race and ethnicity. They found out that Emily and Brandon get significantly more callbacks for job interviews than Lakisha and Jamal do.
A few studies do put on an HBCU [historically black college or university] or some kind of mention of them in the Black Students Association or something like that as a kind of additional signal of race or ethnicity. Some studies used in-person applications by trained tester pairs of white and black applicants. In these studies, race or ethnicity was indicated by appearance.
My only quibble with the research is that names like Lakisha not only sound black, but also ghetto, so how do they know if this is race discrimination per se, or just class discrimination?
Perhaps the studies using in-person applicants are better.
But it’s hard to believe anti-black job discrimination could be so pervasive when other research shows that controlling for IQ, the black-white wage gap closes and blacks are more likely to land high IQ jobs.

Source: The Bell Curve by R. Herrnstein and C. Murray

Source: The Bell Curve by R. Herrnstein and C. Murraya caption
On the other hand, if IQ tests are also unfairly discriminating against blacks to some degree, then the paradox is resolved because blacks will typically be smarter than their test scores suggest, in which case controlling for IQ ≠ controlling for intelligence.
But one problem with this argument is Herrnstein and Murray argued that IQ tests are not biased against blacks because if they were, blacks would overperform their scores, which they apparently do not:
For job performance, the most thorough analysis is provided by the Hartigan Report, assessing the relationship between the General Aptitude Test Battery (GATB) and job performance measures. Out of seventy-two studies that were assembled for review, the white intercept was higher than the black intercept in sixty of them – that is, the GATB overpredicted black performance in sixty out of the seventy-two studies. Of the twenty studies in which the intercepts were statistically significantly different (at the .01 level), the white intercept was greater than the black intercept in all twenty cases.
Affirmative action helps only in the same proportion in wich the fought discrimination is negatively or the less positively correlated to the seeked performance.
Probably, it may work in expertise positions for short, ugly and shy people. And in simple jobs for industrious and non neurotic ones.
I think the worst part about modern-day progressivism is that it elevates certain victim groups above others. Racial minorities, trans, and gays get all the glory. How about the ugly, fat, short, left-handed etc.???? They’re probably more discriminated against than the traditional victim groups.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Do you understand that for a debate to exist, there needs to be two sides? Who are the anti-ugly, anti-fat, anti-short, anti-left-handed ideologues and activists that deny those people equal rights and social treatment?
They’re probably more discriminated against than the traditional victim groups.
Sure, as evidenced by the widespread phenomenon called Tall-flight which is observed any time a critical amount of short people move to a neighborhood, or the disturbing amount of police brutality that left-handed people have to suffer.
You almost sound like a parody here.
Gond is right. When you get true discrimination, you don’t need a visible group to foster it. It’s in the air.
Fat people are extraordinarily discriminated against . In France, people dare to speak to fat people in such a demeaning way, it’s inamigibable. And Fat people are made responsible when they don’t have any control on their metabolism. If all people return one day to their maximum weight, it can’t be because they are all weak.
The most discriminated people are the ones who have no voice to defend them. That’s not the case of black or gays or trans ….
And sometimes discrimination is justified. Few people think that paedophile should be protected from discrimination …
Anti-fatness is morally wrong and makes the problem worse.
https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2016/07/06/science-proves-it-fat-shaming-doesnt-work/
Gond is right. When you get true discrimination, you don’t need a visible group to foster it. It’s in the air.
Complete nonsense. Fostering discrimination? Who would do it? Civil rights movements are there to fight against discrimination, not to foster it.
Get serious a minute. Okay, there is social stigma to being fat, short, left-handed (this one’s ridiculous) or ugly. But these people are not communities, they aren’t seen as out of the mainstream, they are nobody’s other. They have nothing to complain about, and they aren’t at risk of having any of their rights abused by any institution.
False analogy fallacy at its finest.
There is a lot of discrimination against fat people. I’ll link papers later.
Once again Afro shits all over the fat, left handed and short people communities of which Swanky is part of all three, and then turns around and wags his finger at people who have the bravery to say it like it is with the blacks. So little self awareness its laughable.
I can honestly say some of the most horribly demeaning things I’ve ever heard come out of people’s mouths was about fat people (particularly fat women).
Pedophiles are the one group I feel total contempt for and total pity at the same time. I honestly feel like the best policy towards them would be just to decimate them all but that feels immoral at the same time, particularly with the non-psychopath ones.
None of you guys gets it. Yes there may be discrimination against fat people, short people, old people, young people or whatever. The difference is that everybody past the age of 18 knows that it is unfair to judge people on such flaws.
On the other hand, there is anti-racism because there are racists, people who want race to play a role in how society and the legal order are organized. Are there people demanding specific laws for fat, short, left-handed, and ugly people? Who is out to outlaw any of these people? Be serious.
GondwanaMan, people who fat shame say that it “helps them”, citing anecdotes as evidence. However the literature shows a different picture. Their fat shaming makes the problem worse.
Afro I’ve seen people discussing laws for fat people. It’s ridiculous.
The only thing I’m for is high sugar taxes and taxes on things that are trash to force people not to eat it.
Goes against my libertarian values but health is more important than letting global corporations profit off of people’s death and sickness.
Are you kidding, there are tons of people that hate fatties like Gman. Ask Gman whether he has got more abuse from being fat or being black? 100% hes got more grief from being fat.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/two-thirds-of-the-world-still-hates-lefties-64727388/
Left handedness is more discriminated against than race. Educate yourself.
The problem, Afro, is that most people in the developed world never reach a level of ‘viewing others’ past a mental age of 18. Europe seems more enlightened. Maybe centuries of bloody warfare have mellowed you all out, but in the United States, people hate. And hate hard.
muggy is right when he says that people will dislike you for any number of arbitrary reasons.
but it’s wrong to say that this defect of civilized society somehow negates the complaints of other groups who are unfairly discriminated against.
ideally the sole measure of selection will be tests that correlate well to skills needed for the job.
thus far, IQ is the best all-around predictor though, even as muggy says, it is shit. objective shit is much better than just shit.
but for whatever reason, muggy can’t abstract this up to a more intension-plane of meaning and realize that this concept applies to jurisprudence.
the only jurisprudence is a consistent jurisprudence. all of them are shit. what matters is objective criteria.
It’s absolutely pointless to argue.
Long story short:
In the victim’s Olympics, White men won the gold medal, fat people got silver and left-handed people got bronze. But the evil Joos came and took the gold medal from white men and handed it to blacks, kept the silver medal for themselves and gave the bronze one to women.
But beware, the coalition of downtrodden white men, fat people, left-handed people, short people and ugly people is ready to rise and get its long awaited revenge.
What medal to Libyan slaves get?
Fenoopy, the sexual arousal you get from the thought of black slavery isn’t hurting me the slightest. All it does is confirming what I’ve previously said on why you’re a virgin and will remain so for a long time still.
To be honest, fat comments only get directed towards me when I’m shirtless (which I rarely am). Otherwise I just look kinda like a swole black dude. 200 pounds at 5’10” isn’t that freakish for a black male.
More discrimination: At Harvard Asians are regarded as less “personable” than other ethnic groups despite having much better grades, test scores and (surprisingly) extracirriulars.
https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2018/06/15/good-stuff-from-the-aa-lawsuit-against-harvard/
I feel like most attempts by college admissions people to evaluate “personality” through recommendations, leadership experience, and essays are complete and utter bullshit. They use criteria that bring in hyper-ambitious sociopaths at the expense of more thoughtful people (like myself). At least that’s what I’ve seen in my experience around Ivy League-types and top scholarship recipients at major state schools.
We should go to a pure test-based system. I wouldn’t mind the LSAT myself😆
What does Black slavery have to do with sexual arousal or virginity? We see here how Afrosapien’s “muh dick” mind thinks, crow barring sex into every comment and conversation. No doubt his next comment will be: LMAO! Sure. You’re just mad your dick isn’t BBC.
Ok that’s enough. Any further insults between you two moderated
Afro is downplaying the disctimination and racism people of left handedness or people of weight suffer but then cries all day about racism against blacks and jews. Typical.
For complex jobs, discriminating positively for high IQ people would be the best anti-discrimination tool available.
How?
Oh boy.
RR has the same opinions as afro, but afro is pretending.
I actually think Afro and RR are both real (not necessarily all of their biographical details) but I believe Swank may be a cyborg. Or some kind of sociological experiment.
The Philosopher’s background story is entirely made up. You can tell because he writes in American English and he completely changed his views from being pro-Semitic to anti-Semitic.
Animekitty is either 100% real or 100% bullshitting. Too difficult to decide.
Animekitty,
secretly a catgirl in real life.
had y’all fooled I was only an anime cat.
I was in the bathroom and I got really mad, so I punched a hole in the wall in front of me. The 5th time I punched holes in the walls of my house. I realized I cannot do anything, life sucks. There isn’t anything for me to do with my life that’s worth anything. Sleeping in bed all day is the most I can do to be useful in any what. I’m worthless, I don’t do anything. I do not do anything that’s worth doing. I don’t like doing nothing all day because I am too stupid to do interesting stuff. I’m too stupid to do creative things.
^^^gross^^^
Animekitty why don’t you take a walk outside? Carry a walkman or an ipod. And maybe write about what you see? Why do you stay in bed all day?
Cat, start jogging, it will be hard, but after you’ve learned to jogg 2-4km and do it everyday, you’ll see massive results in like 5-7 months. You’ll be so much more powerful than before.
This. Just do a bit more each time. Progressive overload.
What the people above me wrote. Anyone smart understands attending to bodily needs is critical to happiness and exercise is one of those needs.
cyborg?!
GATB isn’t an IQ test. And IQ doesn’t predict job performance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4557354/
IQ tests are biased against blacks per se, they’re biased against the class blacks are most likely to have membership in.
https://www.scribd.com/document/250660667/Richardson-2002-What-Iq-Tests-Test
You can’t predict anything… only stupid people as you will believe on your moronic repetance.
Irrelevant. Try again.
”Irrelevant. Try again.”
This is you…
don’t try please!!
Keep building muscles, the best you can do..
Why yes, I am good at my job. I begin a new job on Monday instructing a course on anatomy, physiology, nutrition and personal training and I’m opening my own studio soon.
I’m opening my own studio soon
Make sure to hire only people below IQ 70 since you claim IQ does not predict job performance. 🙂
Surely you’re aware that using IQ tests for job acceptance is illegal in America. And I’d be the only one in my studio.
I was joking obviously and yes I’m aware of that, though I’m also aware that it’s also technically illegal to discriminate based on education but employers do it anyway, and some even ask about SAT scores.
Put it like this. If I knew two people’s IQs, say one had 70 IQ (nothing wrong, no developmental delays etc) and the other had 100 IQ, I’d quiz them on anatomy, physiology, nutrition and personal training. If the 70 IQ had a better grasp of the material I’d hire him. If the 100 IQ had a better grasp I’d hire him. IQ doesn’t mean anything, knowledge of the field does.
Further, if a specific job has a specific educational requirement then it’s not discrimination. If I didn’t have a PT license and tried to get a job as a PT and they refuse, is that discrimination?
So sorry Humanity!!
Yes Santo. So sorry. I’m successful enough to open my own studio and teach a course on anatomy, physiology, nutrition and personal training. Woe is me.
Congrats buddy.
Santoculto and Schizy are very funny. They’re the worse idiots of this blog, yet they are deluded their “opinions” ( or more accurately random thoughts) have any relevance.
I like RR enthusiasm. It’s very rare to meet people as motivated. I wish you the best. What is a studio exactly ? Is that a Gym, fitness and health business ? I am sure you’d be fantastic as a coach. Many people need to be pushed and see positive energy.
My grandmother who was extremely clever adored one of my cousin only because he was so pushy and energetic. Very few time she would make him stop and think before doing something. Most of times, she would look at me and share a smile or wink about her prefered grand son (maybe with me too) .
Afro thanks. Kinda nervous. Full time schedule. 15 people in the class. Hella excited. More experience for me and it’d help me sharpen up for the future.
Bruno, a fitness studio is whatever I’d like it to be. It’s a smallish place where I can work with people, such as fitness classes, spin classes, aerobics, strength training etc.
Thanks for the compliments. Motivation is key to success in life. If you’re not highly motivated and don’t strongly believe in yourself and your skills, there’s a strong chance you won’t succeed in your goals.
Self-fulfilling prophecies are real.
Is there anyway of verify that self fulfilling prophecies are real?
”I like RR enthusiasm. It’s very rare to meet people as motivated. I wish you the best.”
Bruno look like a polite version of Iluminatikitty…
Keep making it obvious you’ve never had a passion for something in your life Santo.
Expecting pp accept my comment OR…
eRRor is full blown on stupidity as well wrong biases against people…
he is a ”beast” which can learn a language.
Any criticism he do is not based in any proven fact.
You attack me all the time santo and are mad at me for being stupid. You expect me to be polite? You are not polite to me. I’m stupid to you.
Blah blah blah.
I would never dream of reading this article but the structure is : as we don’t know what is intelligence, how to measure it, what is job performance and how much both are exactly correlated, and considering other potential factors, we should be cautious aand stop using the 0.5 correlation figure wich gives a deceitful apparence of validity to IQ construct.
I would start by being cautious with stupid papers 🙂
“Job performance” is based on what the supervisor says. I don’t think I need to tell you how biased that is.
Results from a biased test don’t predict job performance.
And the GATB has been replaced due to…. Surprise surprise…. … Bias and inaccuracy.
https://www.fairtest.org/test-scores-are-not-merit
And a pertinent quote from Richardson and Norgate (my emphasis):
However, a further 264 studies around the GATB were conducted after that and analyzed in the same report. As Hartigan and Wigdor (1989) note “The most striking finding … is a distinct diminution of validities in the newer, post 1972 set” (p. 150). These are described as “puzzling and obviously somewhat worrisome” (p. 160), and, therefore, other factors were considered. For example, the 264 newer studies have much larger average sample sizes (146 c.w. 75). It was shown how the larger samples produced much lower sampling error, requiring less correction. They also produced much lower variation with job family (or level of job complexity, see the following section). The more recent studies also exhibited less range restriction, also requiring less correction (with much less possibility of a false boost to observed correlations). These findings were supported by Jencks (1998) who noted that “GATB scores do not predict job performance very well”, and that “for reasons nobody understands, the GATB’s ability to predict job performance has been falling” (p. 75).
For many jobs IQ would have only a small positive correlation with productivity but that’s often because people below IQs of 110, people seldom work as lawyers, engineers or doctors, so other traits like aggression, motivation, looks, personality, interest level etc, are more predictive. But if everyone from IQ 50 to IQ 150 were allowed to work in those fields, I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t want many people below 120 operating on your heart, designing your buildings, or representing you in court.
Of course it’s hard to prove this without taking you to a parallel universe where elite occupations are open to everyone, so psychologists try to estimate what the predictive power would be in such a universe by adjusting for range restriction and unreliability of productivity measures etc. These adjustments are admittedly speculative, and reasonable people can disagree on their validity.
The point is, Hunter and Schmidt’s data is highly inflated. Numerous non-validated assumptions are made which greatly inflate the correlation.
What kind of adjustments are made for the predictions?
”My only quibble with the research is that names like Lakisha not only sound black, but also ghetto, so how do they know if this is race discrimination per se, or just class discrimination?”
Mostly a class discrimination, trying to search for white low-class typical names like Mugabe’s name.
a white person with the name “billy-bob” would have trouble too.
Notice the way the Guardian banned comments on this article because even guardian readers leave the types of opinions I leave. Most of these newspapers and magazines have opted for no comments or to have a team of censors policing the comments.
All the recent articles have no comments section you dolt.
Imagine what the world would be like without censorship.
Jim Crow would be back in about 2 weeks.
This is the reality: any black with an IQ above 110, will walk into a white shoe firm.
Any black from the ghetto will get away with crimes than no other race would get away with or evade school sanctions or receive welfare/subsidies far beyond what other races get, in particular asians.
Any black that can speak in public without sounding like a 15 year old will get a public policy/media position. Any black the can’t, goes into rap where jews will give them jobs after they suck some gay jew studio execs off.
This is the truth. Everyone outside of the west sees blacks for what they are. There are more billionaires in china than refugees.
This is the reality: any black with an IQ above 110, will walk into a white shoe firm.
FALSE!
Throwing another wrench into the belief that higher education is the great equalizer, a new paper suggests that African-American graduates from elite institutions do only as well in getting jobs as white candidates from less-selective institutions.The study, published in the journal Social Forces, shows that while a degree from an elite university improves all applicants’ chances at finding a well-paid job, the ease with which those jobs are obtained is not equal for black and white students even when they both graduate from an institution such as Harvard University. A white candidate with a degree from a highly selective university, the paper suggests, receives an employer response for every six résumés he or she submits. A black candidate receives a response for every eight.
Any black from the ghetto will get away with crimes than no other race would get away with
FALSE!
Decades of research have shown that the criminal courts sentence black defendants more harshly than whites. But a striking new investigation of sentencing disparities in Florida by The Sarasota Herald-Tribune expands our understanding of this problem in two important ways.It exposes the fact that African-American defendants get more time behind bars — sometimes twice the prison terms of whites with identical criminal histories — when they commit the same crimes under identical circumstances. It also shows how bias on the part of individual judges and prosecutors drives sentencing inequity.
Any black that can speak in public without sounding like a 15 year old will get a public policy/media position.
Where 99.9% of them languish as mere functionaries with no real money or power.
But there’s no point even responding to you since any facts that don’t fit your narrative are conveniently dismissed as Jewish propaganda or autism.
Oh, you’re great this time PP. I thought you were agreeing with Schizy all this time though.
Now I’m asking, what’s the point of having him commenting here? Just boosting the comments count, which is the only thing he’s good at.
If puppy believes that nonsense above, puppy is very gullible.
No, you’re just prone to extreme black or white, all or nothing thinking. I agree that blacks uniquely benefit from Jewish influence on Western society and would be much worse off without them, but that doesn’t mean they don’t still experience racism in their everyday life. Jews aren’t the omnipotent Gods you make them out to be; they don’t have the power to erase centuries of racism by giving us Jay Z.
”Jews aren’t the omnipotent Gods you make them out to be; they don’t have the power to erase centuries of racism by giving us Jay Z.”
Exactly, most than half of jewish infection is due white-european letargy, divisionism and stupidity.
nigga santo, use firefox, it has integrated spellcheck
Or just download Granmarly.
https://www.grammarly.com/
IF Gman wanted he could have gone to harvard on a full scholarship and possibly got a free car and book deal thrown in. Thats the facts that even Gman has himself said.
Philo, your stretching a bit too much. That would be true if AA had a 70 average IQ. With 85 and even a smaller sd, 1 in 100 AA is 1 in 10 white. So positive discrimination is only here to avoid colleges being 1.5% black and be at 15%.
Then for self confident, I think people should have both absolute and relative sense of value. If you’re a 120 AA, it’s normal to get the rarity feeling of a 136 IQ white guy. At the same time, if you’re average built and cumbersome in your movement, it’s normal to feel a bit more awkward. Except if your completely out of a black environnement in which case you’re reference in the population you are in .
I think it is a good thing to keep some racial representation in colleges and graduate schools.
Probably. In undergrad I didn’t go to class for a semester and flunked a couple of courses which dropped my GPA a lot. Lost my scholarship too but I was only a few courses from graduating so I didn’t really care.
In other words, if my GPA was .3-.4 higher I would be a shoe-in at Harvard. But s lot of law schools use non-disclosed GPA floors which probably basically eliminated whatever chances I had.
My only quibble with the research is that names like Lakisha not only sound black, but also ghetto, so how do they know if this is race discrimination per se, or just class discrimination?
What about black photos and neutral names?
But it’s hard to believe anti-black job discrimination could be so pervasive when other research shows that controlling for IQ, the black-white wage gap closes and blacks are more likely to land high IQ jobs.
That’s misleading. The chart just alleges that blacks with an IQ of 100 have approximately the same income as whites with an IQ 100. It doesn’t tell whether the pay gap is wider and in what direction above 100 and below 100.
The argument is barely touched by any alleged mismatch with supposed job performance measures because job performance depends on much more factors than competence alone.
Either way, it’s well known that affirmative action has no effect on private employment besides federal government contractors and big companies with a diversity program. The only news here is that this new to you, which is hardly surprising since you’re still quoting a 1994 book.
^^^^ More jewish nonsense.
pumpkin is slowly starting to realize that there is likely more readership and $$$ in a liberal blog with HBD hand-wringing sympathies than a blog that openly promotes Jensen and Rushton as heroes.
in other words, he’s starting to the see the light of the ‘elite’ American democrat.
No there isn’t. The whole reason theres an alt right internet sphere is precisely because people like Pumpkin are saying things, even by accident, that the MSM isn’t.
Good point.
The amount of money that could be made from this blog is insignificant either way. The real money is in youtube. A huge readership would be nice, but I wouldn’t lie about what I believe to get it. The truth is way too interesting.
I think Pumpkin is playing Devil’s Advocate so he can understand both sides of the argument, like a real intellectual would.
And there’s more money in being an alt-right blogger than a liberal one, since there’s already so many liberal media outlets. Just like how during the 90s and 2000s there was more money in conservative/libertarians talk radio than liberal talk radio.
Why do you think Candace Owen’s flip-flopped on her politics? Same exact reason. Weird huh…?
What she used to be liberal? I don’t know much about her other than a snippet of a few interviews I’ve seen. Kinda like Jordan Peterson in that the hype machine has taken her very far.
Yea. She was “redpillblack”. I guess she saw how much money can be made spewing conservative/altright talking points so she followed the money.
Heres a good take on her:
View at Medium.com
If Pumpkin would let me, I would write afros comments for him because its always the same crap again and again that not even he believes. Anyone that knows anything knows AA is a gigantic distortion in univeristy, hiring, welfare, crime, politics, and government employment. ANYONE. Only a jew would deny it or someone with such severe autism like Bill Gates, he is basically a functional retardate.
If Pumpkin would let me, I would write afros comments for him because its always the same crap again and again that not even he believes.
Haha. The funny thing is that he once wrote:
Its not like I like knowing all this stuff about jews and blacks et al. But reality is reality. And you move on.
That’s the level of self-awareness of a toddler.
Swank, who is jewish, would support a black mass murderers right to ‘enjoy a lifestyle of his choosing’ and then dress him up as a freedom fighter’ or some nonsense that jews cook up. Swank has ZERO objectivity on race issues. He once even said that blacks should be paid reperations. This is something only jews and gay black men say.
their reparations are a far better life than they would have had in africa. and contrary to popular opinion the lives of slaves in the US was not that bad in comparison to those of poor whites in the US and UK. an owner takes care of what he owns better than a renter takes care of what he rents.
i mean, getting the obvious ‘i never said any of that’ out of the way when dealing with phil’s rants….
….how do you know their lives wouldn’t have been better in Africa? it’s likely better to be VIP or one of ‘the group’ anywhere, than an outsider in the ‘greatest country ever.’
and if by popular opinion you mean the opinion of historians…sure. a lot of them are jewish I’m sure. but there’s no denying that poor whites have always had the boot on their necks. unfortunately, their anger has been very effectively harnessed against the wrong target…
“In the past, white men have hated white men quite as much as some of them hate the Negro, and have vented their hatred with as much savagery as they ever have against the Negro. The best educated people have the least race prejudice. In the United States the poor white were encouraged to hate the Negroes because they could then be used to help hold the Negroes in slavery. The Negroes were taught to show contempt for the poor white because this would increase the hatred between them and each side could be used by the master to control the other. The real interest of the poor whites and the Negroes were the same, that of resisting the oppression of the master class. But ignorance stood in the way. This race hatred was at first used to perpetuate white supremacy in politics in the South. The poor whites are almost injured by it as are the Negroes.”
I always found it interesting that many runaway slaves returned to their owners. Life as a slave sucked, but life as a poor freeman during the 1800s sucked even harder.
I worked with a Jamaican guy years back. He was old enough to be around for some people who were alive during slavery and he said that a lot of people told him that many people went back after escaping because they didn’t really know how to live on their own.
for autists like swank…
slavery is EVIL.
but so is “free market capitalism”.
This. Although it’s almost impossible that a 21st century Jamaican guy to have been around people who were first-hand witnesses of Jamaican slavery which ended in 1833, the reason why slaves would return to their plantations isn’t that slavery wasn’t that bad, it’s simply that someone born on a plantation, who’s known nothing else but the plantation for all of their lives and was never taught any sort of survival skills in the wilderness would not be able to survive long far from society where they could only live off theft while being at risk of being captured again.
Runaway slaves would only form durable Maroon communities where large numbers of African-born slaves would escape to areas that were safe enough from European raids or where there were strong and welcoming Native American tribes willing to protect them and share their resources. African Maroon communities were common in the Caribbean, Brazil and Colombia, in the US, the only options for definitive freedom were joining Native tribes like the Seminole of Florida (see Black Seminoles), or finding Abolitionist networks that would smuggle runaway slaves to Canada.
what is that?
400 words?
Afro he wasn’t talking about Jamaican slavery, he was talking about slavery in America.
I agree that “free market capitalism” is evil. it’s just a different type of slavery, as most systems of government will be before we reach post-scarcity. so i don’t know what you’re talking about.
yes. in general affirmative action hires are useless in their positions, but large companies fear lawsuits from satan worshippers like swank. so they take the loss.
swank is too effeminate to be a mezzogiorn-ese.
aquinas? YES!
the highest IQ, the smartest man (or woman)…EVER!…i stipulate!
scalia? NO!
marciano? YES!
and it’s got nothing to do with marciano being white.
marciano is the best conditioned boxer ever in 2 ways.
1. he never got tired…EVER!
2. he could take a punch…like no one else.
the following video will be deleted by swank’s people soon…
my mother’s father was an ACTUAL gangster. no kidding.
i’m so much more gangsta than swank it hurts.
with great respect to Marciano, you’re simply wrong about him.
Floyd Mayweather had much better conditioning.
And Marciano never had to take a real hit — he never fought anyone even remotely resembling the modern 200+ heavy-hitters out there.
boxing nostalgia is supremely annoying.
no gangsta would fail the Ed Meese VIQ test.
not one:
“Judges, lawyers and politicians have a license to steal. We don’t need one.”
no gangsta would think Marx was profound. at all:
“It takes many steppingstones, you know, for a man to rise. None can do it unaided”
having said that, ‘gangstas’ aren’t the only people who can understand these things. I’m not gangsta at all. Randian Robin Hood, maybe?
“randian robin hood” is an OXYMORON.
redact the “OXY” and its swank.
swank knows gangsta “from” what?
nothing.
he’s a putz.
my mother’s father was a Democrat, because at that time the Dems were the “party of the little man”.
Not really. Steal from the rich and give to the me…
I agree. I am poorly educated. You, unfortunately, are much better educated than you realize.
every intelligent person is a marxist. dumb people have no idea what marx actually said.
let’s take the most obvious point where marx was wrong, his idea of “expropriation of surplus value”. does this mean entrepreneurs shouldn’t be rewarded with profit? does this mean the entrepreneur doesn’t do any real work? no.
examples of “expropriation of surplus value”:
1. the cachorreo system in mining.
2. the s&p 500 makes ca $33,000 in profit per employee after tax. profit margins (profits as % of revenues) are higher than they have ever been. s&p 500 companies do not use their profits to increase production or improve their product. total payout ratio is >100% and has been for years.
how much is enough? it is fair that jeff bezos still controls amazon. it is ridiculous that he has $120b.
Yo swank:
Where did the quote in your 2nd comment in this thread come from?
In the past, white men have hated white men quite as much as some of them hate the Negro, and have vented their hatred with as much savagery as they ever have against the Negro.
I meant this one. I guess I could easily look it up.
Im suprised people who support AA havent just given their houses and bank accounts over to Robanda and moved to Africa to ‘even the playing field’. Within 50 years, blacks would then say its racist they can’t live with whites in africa 1000% guaranteed. Only a jew would deny this.
Lets be brutally honest. the only reason afro isn’t wiping his ass with his hand after defecating in the street is AFFIRMATIVE ACTION. Afro, whos entire life is AA, then has the harebrained stupidity to turn around and say AA never helped anyone!!! Its ABSURD.
AFROS ENTIRE EXISTENCE IS A SHAM MEANT TO PLACATE HIS MAKE BELIEF PARENTS FRIENDS AND HOMOSEXUAL CO WORKERS THAT THEY ARE ‘GOOD’ PEOPLE. ITS NO DIFFERENT THAN SAYING PRAYERS IN PUBLIC OR PRAYING TO ALLAH AT LUNCHTIME. NO DIFFERENT.
Now schizy is completely losing it. Take your pills.
If a rich black couple i.e. AA employees adopted sri lankan children people in the black ‘community’ (thats an oxymoron), would say they were mad. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. Stop denying it.
If a rich black couple i.e. AA employees adopted sri lankan children people in the black ‘community’ (thats an oxymoron), would say they were mad
So that’s what this is about. You’re mad no one adopted you. 🙂
If a rich African American couple adopted Bushmen children, they’d be lionized, because just as whites are considered charitable when they give to less wealthy groups (African Americans), bushmen are less priviliged than African Americans.
No, no one would give a damn because people have productive lives and have no time to bother with other people’s choices.
But when you’ve been fired 15 times, when everything you’ve tried ended up in a resounding failure, when you’re middle-aged, lonely and worthless and when you’ve never enjoyed the status that your deluded self though he deserved, you need to find answers. [redacted by pp, June 14, 2018]
So that’s what this is about. You’re mad no one adopted you. 🙂
You say it ironically but this is unironically true. He reeks of envy and inferiority complex. That’s why he wishes Jim Crow was established in Europe so he wouldn’t have to suffer the sight of a black living a better life than him or being given credit for their aptitudes. He just can’t accept a world where he has to compete with blacks playing by the same rules, so he has to convince himself that everything is made easier for blacks when it’s actually the exact opposite.
He’s so transparent and predictable you’d think he’s 6 years old.
I mean, can you imagine? Being fired 15 times, experiencing so much rejection can only take a heavy toll on one’s mental health. Not to mention that a black person would never be given 15 chances at employment, a typical person would start some serious introspection work.
But introspection is something he’s blatantly incapable of. I’m a hundred percent sure that every time an employer got pissed by his incompetence, schizy was stubbornly arguing that he was right in everything he’s done against all rational evidence to the contrary. And he left all his jobs convinced they fired him because they knew he was right, similar to what happens here or with his psychiatrist.
The world is just a vast conspiracy meant to conceal schizy’s “truth”. The psychiatric distress is strong.
“so he has to convince himself that everything is made easier for blacks when it’s actually the exact opposite.”
THIS IS LAUGHABLE COMING FROM YOU OF ALL PEOPLE.
Life is easier for me because I was raised in the top 1% you moron.
Pumpkin bans the comments about my previous psychiatrist that agreed with me.
Yet another one blaming the moderation policy . Haha! I’m done for tonight, I’ll be busy with my “fantasy sex life”.
I wish there was affirmative action for Arabs. I’m just going to go convert to Judaism and play nepotism instead. I have more than enough Jewish DNA to get Israeli citizenship, probably far more than most born-Jews.
Well, there’s France:
No distinctions based on race, religion or sex are allowed under the 1958 French Constitution.[54] Since the 1980s, a French version of affirmative action based on neighborhood is in place for primary and secondary education. Some schools, in neighborhoods labeled “Priority Education Zones”, are granted more funds than the others. Students from these schools also benefit from special policies in certain institutions (such as Sciences Po).[55]
The French Ministry of Defence tried in 1990 to make it easier for young French soldiers of North-African descent to be promoted in rank and obtain driving licenses. After a strong protest by a young French lieutenant[56] in the Ministry of Defence newspaper (Armées d’aujourd’hui), the driving license and rank plan was cancelled. After the Sarkozy election, a new attempt in favour of Arab-French students was made, but Sarkozy did not gain enough political support to change the French constitution. However, some French schools do implement affirmative action in that they are obligated to take a certain number of students from impoverished families.[57]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action#France
Afro, Puppy and Swank probably think there ISNT ENOUGH affirmative action right now hahahahahahaha.
All Afro does is comment and crowbar in his fantasy sex life into every single topic. Even when he guest posted, he basically just described what he’d like to do to a woman. Commenters who never even commented before lined up to say what a joke the article was. Afro can’t see that every single one of his comments is a similar non funny joke at this point.
Another one that enters your top most hilarious rants. One year or more after these one-time commenters turned up out of the blue to never come back again and you still can’t figure out of who these “commenters” were. And at the same time you’ve figured out all of the evil global Jewish schemes… That’s priceless.
They were clearly people that were sick and tired of reading total crap and your ego can’t handle someone not liking your psuedo homo erotic reveries.
Poor schizy. I’m not saying what I say because of the very obvious stylistic similarities between the “commenters” and the concerned person, nor because the whole context that led to this post would would inevitably trigger a retaliatory act of this kind. I say this because I had a confession from that person.
Now this person will tell it explicitly to you because it was a very shady thing to do. But know one thing: this person and the other ones who know what happened must be delighted to see your supposedly superior social intelligence failing on something so basic.
Where did this confession occur?
On the thread iirc.
Now this person will tell it explicitly to you because it was a very shady thing to do.
Now this person won’t tell it explicitly to you because it was a very shady thing to do.
It’s true though, PP always bans my ‘muh dick!’ posts, but that’s what you do. You crowbar sex into every conversation.
Oh really? Weren’t you allowed to share the exact size of “yo dick”?
See, there are a few differences that you may not perceive. The first thing is that I never randomly launch threads about sex. Only mug of pee does that. The only threads I initiate are on-topic. Okay, you may find 2 or three threads I started on open threads in the past six months but that’s all, and these were more likely posted to reignite previous flame-wars with some guy promising to come and get my wife or something.
80% of my off-topic interventions consist of me replying to someone referring to me or alluding to me. You see, every thread is Afro this, afro that every five or six comments.
20% of my comments just consist of me cringing at the sexual frustration or the sexual ignorance that perspires from some commenters. Because it simply is the root of the alt-right, I’m not inventing it. And since I’m black and very successful in this department and very proud of it, I can’t get away with a mere “alright, good for you, man”. Nah, it never fails to trigger a nuclear flame war and you guys can never let go, which feeds the aforementioned 80% of my interventions.
But the mistake you make is assuming everyone with Rushtonian views is motivated by sexual frustration. Many (perhaps the vast majority) are, but some of us are genuinely just motivated by a geeky science fascination. My interest in Rushton predated puberty so I know it’s not driven by sexual frustration. If you can get past the racism and questionable stats, it’s actually an incredibly beautiful and aesthetically pleasing theory that’s as fascinating as the greatest sci-fi and fantasy movies. But you don’t believe me because it doesn’t fit your narrative of nerdy HBDers jealous of “muh big black dick”. 🙂
In your specific case, I know it’s not sexual frustration because you very easily let go with the sex talk. Compare with Fenoopy and how he’s been throwing tantrums for close to one week.
the haitian doth protest too much me thinks.
WAY
TOO
MUCH!
I think it’s absurd that you think you have something special. Women are hypergamous, all you need is to be over 6ft, athletic, and have a 6 figure income (two of these things are entirely within your control, one isn’t) and women will swarm around you like flies to shit. I can get more tinder matches in a day than I know what to do with. It’s nothing special. That’s how women are. Women are only interested in the top 20% of men, the bottom 80% are invisible to them. Also, I’ll never believe that’s you until you hold up a piece of paper saying so, and I’m happy to do the same for myself. No doubt I’ll crush you in every department, imaginary-life Afro.
I think it’s absurd that you think you have something special.
You wouldn’t be so obsessed with me if you thought that way.
Women are hypergamous, all you need is to be over 6ft, athletic, and have a 6 figure income (two of these things are entirely within your control, one isn’t) and women will swarm around you like flies to shit.
Tryna win the red pill Olympics? See, the way you parrot your manosphere gurus is not helping your case.
I can get more tinder matches in a day than I know what to do with. It’s nothing special. That’s how women are. Women are only interested in the top 20% of men, the bottom 80% are invisible to them.
That sounds so incel.
Also, I’ll never believe that’s you until you hold up a piece of paper saying so, and I’m happy to do the same for myself. No doubt I’ll crush you in every department, imaginary-life Afro.
Well, if it’s the coping strategy that helps you deal with your insecurities, I’m 100% fine with it. But you’re missing an opportunity to get out of your sad situation.
I mean, I’m not into that pick up artistry stuff that I find extremely cringey. But there are basic things that are just common sense and that you’ve obviously missed out on. If you swallowed your pride just a little instead of convincing yourself that you surpass me, you could learn from me and end up much better off.
“it’s actually an incredibly beautiful and aesthetically pleasing theory”
One can craft any story to fit the data. So that one theory is “incredibly beautiful and aesthetically pleasing” is irrelevant, since one can formulate any story to fit the data. Which is why just-so stories are a thing.
And you can always manipulate the data to fit the theory. But at this point, he isn’t even arguing that the “theory” is scientifically rigorous, it’s just an appealing sci-fi tale to him.
Fenoopy I’m 5 10 and have no problem getting women.
And making a six-figure income is less out of your control then you think.
No, height is out of your control. Income and athleticism is within your control (to a degree). Unless you’re disabled, there’s really no excuse.
And 5″10 is decent RR, still within the top 20% of men. If you are athletic, even more so. You shouldn’t have any issues getting women. Below this however things start to get hard.
5’10” is more like the top 50% of guys
Dude, that “women chase the 20% of men” canard is bullshit. There are two different things to consider.
First thing, if you want one night stands on demand, you’d rather be social and have looks in the top 5%, which means being the best looking guy out of 20 guys of your age group. If you’re that guy, you can pick up any available woman of your generation regardless of class, race or any other social attribute that potentially sets people apart.
Second thing, when it comes to having a long term and fruitful relationship, you don’t need to be particularly outstanding. The only two things that matter are 1) not being creepy and awkward 2) having reasonable expectations as to what type of chicks you can attract.
And unfortunately for you, being alt-right is creepy even if you think no one knows what you do on the internet. The flaws that drive you into these spheres are felt by people and no one would be that surprised to find out that you’re a 4chan troll.
So you can have as many tinder matches as you dream to. In the end, a girl will notice something’s not quite right with you. You wouldn’t even this as a measure of success if you had it so easy.
PP, 5 10 is above average in America. Average height is 5 8. I believe for North Europeans average is 6 or 6 1.
Fenoopy, luck plays a large factor in a six-figure income. I make good money but I’m nowhere near six figures yet.
Soon.
And me being athletic goes without saying.
5’10” is dead average for your age group. Probably a bit below average for white american men in your age group.
Link?
Here’s a source saying the average American man is 5’9″
https://www.healthexec.com/topics/policy/cdc-average-american-15-pounds-heavier-20-years-ago
but the average is dragged down by older & non-white men.
Young white American men = 70.4 inches
I first got into HBD and Rushton’s and Lynn’s work in 2012. I admit I was motivated to “prove” my biases against blacks, which is evident in my earliest articles. So I was first motivated by “racism”, I admit, when I first got into this stuff. Then I stopped thinking childish thoughts and really got into science. I credit Rushton and Lynn and others for getting me really interested in science and this stuff but I was first brought to reading science papers through my interest in nutrition and fitness/bodybuilding. Rushton et al solidified it though.
Afro, true. That theories are “parsimonious” or whatnot is irrelevant. Lynn’s papers are trash, especially the testosterone ones attempting to tie testosterone with the r/K theory.
So embarrassing. They don’t understand hormones.
Hmm, true, I think Americans are taller in general. Must be all the burgers. 6″3 is only top 2% I believe.
Afros comments provoke reactions from homosexual japanese brazilian men, north african men, women, white american men, and sometimes other blacks and then he keeps saying hes ‘persecuted for his blackness’ and ‘commenting while black’. Fuckin retard.
Homosapiens even used the term ‘woke’ in a non ironic self reflective manner. Hahahahahaha.
lmao afro, i know you’re a nerd, you can stop playing. i can hold up a paper any second proving me is me, you’re a sad little troll. that’s why i love poking holes in all your gay little stories.
that isn’t ‘manosphere’ stuff, it’s personal experience. i was nerdy prior to age 16 or so and the difference in attention i got then (with glasses, not as athletic, student) compared to now (lasek, extremely fit, high income) is massive. what’s the reason? simply that i moved from average guy to top 1% of men, that’s the only difference.
‘convincing myself that i surpass you?’ i’m genetically superior to you in every way. you’re the one posting BBC comics to try and nurse your poor self-esteem! ahahah, poor guy, born Haitian. it was over before it even started.
Oh, I can prove my identity too. I was ready to meet you IRL when you challenged me to. I’d have freed one hour just for the two of us to meet, exposing an online troll is something I’ve been longing for and you’d sure had have your minute of fame with my Instagram followers. That’s what was in the back of my mind, but unfortunately you shied away from this opportunity.
that isn’t ‘manosphere’ stuff, it’s personal experience.
Personal experience on 4chan and manosphere forums. Man, just read yourself a see how you sound like you haven’t seen natural light for years. Just what I wrote above, your language and your references are the direct reflection of your pathetic life and your self-esteem issues.
“i’m genetically superior to you”
Hahaha
^^^ This. And than he pretends he’s a successful, well adjusted dude. The joke.
Nice I’m well below average in weight, weighing 170 right now and weigh like 160 when I’m sliced and diced.
and no afro, i just don’t measure my worth by number of women i fuck. i have other things i like to do, like reading blogs, watching documentaries, reading papers, looking at weaboo things like anime and hentai, working out, nutrition, computing and of course hbd.
developing myself was a personal project, nothing more.
that said, alt-right? come on man, i would get gassed instantly for being a dirty maghrebi. also, nearly all north africans are extremely far right conservative and all the north africans that have commented on this blog have followed that trend including myself. negros tend to be far left jew slaves and all the blacks on this blog have followed that trend. whites vary depending on how much they’ve been brain washed. non-brainwashed = far right conservative like north africans, brainwashed = far left with the negros trying to be ‘good people’
and no afro, i just don’t measure my worth by number of women i fuck.
Given that this number is a laughable 0, you’ve had to find other things to take pride of.
developing myself was a personal project, nothing more.
More like an epic fail. LMAO!
that said, alt-right? come on man, i would get gassed instantly for being a dirty maghrebi.
You have obvious Aryan envy and you just wish Maghrebis were respected as a superior race, so you have invented a light skinned Maghrebi race that’s not like the others but unfortunately, only you acknowledges its existence.
also, nearly all north africans are extremely far right conservative and all the north africans that have commented on this blog have followed that trend including myself.
What a clown! North Africans, being the underdogs of Europe, overwhelmingly side with progressives. You must be seriously isolated to believe in such a fantasy.
negros tend to be far left jew slaves and all the blacks on this blog have followed that trend.
Well, I’m not far left so try again. I said repeatedly I’m a Christian Democrat.
How many North Africans have commented on this blog? There’s you and some speculate Jimmy (who some speculate is you) and then a troll pretended to be North African (I suspect the same guy also pretended to be Israeli earlier).
So, now we know for sure that all the “commenters” who claimed north African ancestry of affinity before Fenoopy arrived here were sockpuppets of the same person that comments as Fenoopy today.
No I don’t think the North African sock puppet (the one who Jimmy thought was Jewish) was Fenoopy, but I also don’t think he was Jewish (just a long time commenter who sometimes trolls here for entertainment, also pretending to be an Isreali who didn’t want you and your wife moving to Israel).
Oh, I remember this guy. Well, either way, Fenoopy is deluded. Even North Africans in North Africa follow underdog politics.
They’re probably conservative on social issues (gays, blacks?) and liberal on foreign policy. Don’t know about economics.
In France, they’re liberal on race relations, economics and foreign policy, conservative on religion.
Look how Afro made up a story saying those commenters on his articles admitted they were Jimmy or something. I was there Afro. I remember the thread as well. There was NO admission of sockpuppetry. Afro basically retrofitting history. I even remember Deal, who is a far left SJW cult member saying she didn’t like the article. The article bombed.
If Puppy let me guest post I wouldn’t get 20% of the negative feedback even though my views are considered ‘extreme’ by the average person on the street.
Hahaha, your memory is failing you big time schizy. And since all the persons who know what I’m referring to are still here to read your drivel, they’re all having a great moment.
Puppy won’t me guest blog, but lets a deranged narcissist post his wet dreams as a guest post. Doesn’t make any sense unless you consider the puppy may in fact be jewish.
lmao afro, we both know neither of us is paying for a plane ticket to another country to meet some random on the internet, just post a picture with your name written on a piece of paper, not hard.
afro posting obscure bbc comics is a reflection of the kind of material he reads to help solve his self-esteem issues as a haitan.
I’ve met plenty of online people IRL. What do you think Instagram is for? Followers are all potential friends or more. I’ve posted a video of me, RR follows me on twitter where I use my own pictures. I have nothing more to prove.
The funny thing is that you called me a slanted gorilla or something like that, so it’s not like I’m unbelievably handsome, right?
afro posting obscure bbc comics is a reflection of the kind of material he reads to help solve his self-esteem issues as a haitan.
Wait, aren’t you the one who wanted to to post them in the first place and then bitched over moderation?
Afro, Blacks are the least attractive race on this planet by far, also the most hated race. Keep denying reality if you want.
That’s the way you’d like things to be. We both know what the reality is. You’re a virgin and I’m married to a woman that almost share the same ethnic background as yours, that’s quite ironic.
Me, most likely Jimmy (unless he’s not which I highly doubt) and that Issam guy.
Jimmy isn’t north african you knuckleheads. Its pretty obvious. Nobody would know that much about 90s western pop culture otherwise. There was Issam and that other north african guy, can’t remember his name, and Fenoopy.
Lyrion has serious issues if he thinks they are all the same person.
As for that thread, post a link to it afro. Nobody there admitted to being a sockpuppet as far as I can remember.
Issam was likely a sock puppet trying to get a rise out of Afro for entertainment. Probably the same guy who created the Emmanuel Goldstein sock puppet.
As for that thread, post a link to it afro. Nobody there admitted to being a sockpuppet as far as I can remember.
Hahahaha! You’re a lost cause. Keep making a fool of yourself.
IMO AFRO=SWANK. Its obvious. They are the same guy. He needs to find a new job not that public office with the JIDF whose job is to annoy me and serious commenters.
You’d have to be mentally disabled to think Afro is Swank. Totally different personalities and writing style. Leave the conspiracy deduction to me, the world’s most socially intelligent autistic 🙂
PP finally admits it, the jig is up
Issam knew too much to be a sock puppet imo
What did he know?
“Even North Africans in North Africa follow underdog politics.”
https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/file/getimagecustom/c33303ab-bfd4-4253-a6a6-98d8909bc53f/850/479
I can’t remember, just many Arabic things that a non-Arabic speaker wouldn’t know at all
well hbd blogs attract people who know a lot about race or have a lot of experience with certain ethnic groups (thus forming hbd theories)
Issam was not a sockpuppet. Thats ridiculous. His english was pretty minimal. But his ideas were 100% on the money. Goldstein was jimmy I think, but goldstein only commented once ever. When Issam asked Afro why cannibalism still exists in Africa, Afro had no answer to that.
So Afro just accused him of being jimmy rather than answer the question.
his English was minimal. just like Goldstein’s.
As usual, none of the above ever happened. You’ll discuss it with your next psychiatrist, if there’s still someone in the profession that has hope for you. If not, well, you’ll be complaining on this blog 24/7 until you find the final solution to all of your problems.
BTW Pumpkin still hasn’t let Jimmy come back, but lets RR and Afro say whatever they want. I am SICK of RRs racism and Afro’s general jewish nonsense.
Its possible afro and swank are the same person. i.e. a middle aged jewish obese bald man with grease dripping down his forehead.
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.sbnation.com%2Fimported_assets%2F1259927%2FSouth-Park-World-of-Warcraft-dude.jpg&f=1
^^^AFRO/SWANK
**static**
Talmud38 to IS-RAY-EL, I’ve been made! Over **static**
swank is a jewish woman who identifies as male.
which is why muggy is in a state of (unrequited) love for swank. it all makes sense now.
it’s all a matter of maturity swank.
no pain!
no gain!
one unrequited (or unavailable) love may make you suicidal.
two makes you a cynic!
in my case such infatuation has been like possession. it took hold of me. i saw the croc eating me, and i couldn’t swim away.
i’m all grow-ed up now. thanks be to God.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Leopard#The_author
The Leopard?
fuck! i meant to post this…
you know my own dad tried to commiserate with black folk on that day.
he was asked to leave.
it’s interesting that king was only 39.
it does seem that maturity isn’t something one simply attains at 18 or 21 or 35 or whatever. some may appear to mature more slowly, but the slower-ness is not just slow-er. it’s different.
that is, “maturity” is just a word.
people are following trajectories which differ in many ways other than speed.
those trajectories which are sometimes characterized as “slow” may actually be superior.
generally, maturity represents being a valuable member of society, primarily by giving value -to- society rather than taking.
in that sense, maturity requires, in various sectors of social life, one to figure out what they can offer to get whatever it is they want in exchange. and the ‘can’ part often involves brainstorming, trial and error, etc. and then personal development.
the age-related milestones just relate to the average man/woman and by what time they should figure out various parts of their social life.
but everyone is different. for some people the order may reverse (i.e. a smart nerd figuring out things like finance/economic security etc. before figuring out how to socialize). for some people everything may take longer because the person may need to figure out specifically what it is they personally want out of life and society. and so on.
slow is superior for some because those people are taking the time to know themselves. and once they fall into place, they will be a fully functioning, “happy” member of society.
which is better than someone who rushes to conform to what they think they should be and ends up developing a skillset that doesn’t bring them what they truly want out of society and life.
so FOR ME…loving someone just means that something about that person satisfies some inner need I must have. whether they return the favor or not is irrelevant. it’s more about whatever the need is and what it is about the person that satisfies that need.
human beings are mostly similar. and whatever it is about them that meets the need will be present in another.
which
is
why
dwelling on it is a little…
…immature.
by all objective measures of job performance, academic aptitude, etc. blacks in the same job or school will have the lowest measures.
blacks are the most privileged people in the US de jure. white and asian males are the least privileged.
Lower scores in the same job don’t necessarily equal more privilege. Because achievement and IQ are imperfectly correlated, blacks still regress to a lower mean IQ, even when they do so from a higher achievement. Even before affirmative action, I bet blacks still had lower IQs than their white occupational equals.
the reason why class based affirmative action is nixed by the dems is:
1. it would overwhelmingly benefit poor whites and poor asians. (according to espenshade whites in the 99% are the single most discriminated against group in elite uni admissions.)
2. the dems starting with clinton are the party of the rich just as much as the GOP. the two parties’ donor classes differ in how they made their money and how jewish they are.
why would they all regress to a lower mean IQ?
the regression is to the grand parent IQ I thought….
I thought they regress to their “familial IQ” (whatever that means).
When people say stuff like we regress to our grandparents, they are often imposing a genetic interpretation, but regression has nothing to do with genetics per se.
What you regress to is a function of how much I know about you. If all I know about you is that you’re a human, I regress you to the human mean of 90 because that’s where most humans are, so that’s my best guess of where you’re IQ is likely to be.
If I know you’re an American, I regress you to the American mean of 97.
If I know you’re a white American, I regress you to the white American mean of 100.
If I know you’re a white American with smart grandparents, then I regress you to the mean of white Americans with smart grandparents etc, or better yet I use multiple regression.
What’s the genetic mechanism to regress to the racial IQ mean?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanism_(biology)
the issue here is you said ‘before AA,’ when positions were presumably more merit-based…
so why would you assume blacks regress to a lower mean IQ under those conditions?
if you know that (1) AA exists where allegedly unqualified blacks get hired into positions (2) where a 15 point or so gap exists and persists…then sure, lower mean IQ.
But if all you know is that there is no AA….why assume the gap and therefore lower mean IQ?
Is there data from non-AA times showing the same gap in more cognitively demanding professions?
The main difference affirmative action makes is the rarity of blacks who achieve X.
Let’s say pre-affirmative action only 1 in 500 whites got an elite degree (+3 SD), and only 1 in 30,000 blacks (+ 4 SD)
Let’s also say education correlates 0.6 with IQ in each race
The expected IQ of white grads would be +3 SD(0.6) = +1.8 SD above white mean (IQ 127) while expected IQ of black grads would be +4 SD(0.6) = 2.4 SD above black mean (IQ 121)
So even though blacks had to be more exceptional relative to their race than whites did before affirmative action, that’s not enough to negate a 1 SD gap between the races.
What affirmative action did was make it so blacks no longer had to be more exceptional relative to their race than whites did, so elite grads of both races would be + 3 SD above their respective races in education, and thus both would be +3 SD(0.6) = +1.8 SD in IQ relative to their race, so 127 for whites and 112 for blacks, maintaining roughly the full 15 point gap between them.
But I’m aware of no actual data from pre-affirmative action times so I could be wrong.
yes, but as I’m sure you’re aware, applying this model to the events only really makes sense if you can make a reasonable case that the black grandparent in question likely was close to the black mean IQ.
if everything was truly merit-based in pre-AA times (in IQ terms) then if ANYONE did something only 1 in 500 whites could do, it would make more sense to just use the white mean because I’m not sure we would reasonably expect the black in question to regress to the black mean IQ.
you could argue that it’s likely super exceptional and more or less random forces produced the parent black IQ, but pre-AA lineage, etc. were more important rather than less, so it’s probably more likely that they had a distinct lineage.
not only that, but because discrimination was allowed and encouraged, you could also argue that the black in question would have had to have been even more exceptional than the functional equivalent to the white IQ cognitive threshold to make it.
no the grandparents would have been higher than the black mean but it doesn’t matter cause part of the reason education correlates with iq is cause education correlates with iq of grandparents so that’s already built into the prediction
your last paragraph is plausible though
The issue seems to be whether the sample in question (elite blacks) should be considered best represented by the white populous norm or the black populous norm.
If you’re saying that the grandparents would be higher than the black mean, then why do the correlation against the average black? Pre-AA that particular sample may be better modeled by the white populous norm, e.g. lineage being important, meaning that this particular black sample may have adopted all the factors that contribute to the white norm and are more like that populous.
Post-AA, you can make the case and you did that even in an elite profession, the average black populous norm is better.
but the only difference between pre-aa and post-aa is how exceptional the achievement is
Yes, but would you agree that exceptional achievement in and of itself has correlates? For example, the factors other than pure IQ may be ones that are not random but a function of stable high lineage.
Past a certain point, those other factors are more likely to be present than just “single generation luck.”
Did my last comment here get hacked?
the one saying mug of pee’s educated?
No the one about exceptional circumstances having correlates.
I just now found it in moderation & published it. Didn’t see at the time cause mug of pee was having a meltdown.
good on peepee. lion and gayman have shown their innumeracy in the case of regression to the mean.
“regression to the mean” is nothing mysterious or physical. it’s just math. it’s a property of populations where nothing is known about its members other than their membership in the population.
my dad had a friend who later became DA. his wife was an MD. their son wasn’t so bright. he explained it as “regression to the mean”. but my brother and i are smarter than our parents. our cousins are smarter than their parents. at least that’s what the tests say.
grandparents have nothing to do with it.
one regresses to the population of which he is a member. the more you know about a person the smaller his population becomes.
an example…i have no non-blue eyed relatives…afaik.
living or dead.
similar to my brother and i and our cousins being taller than our parents…even though my mother’s father and his father were at least 6’3″. they were super tall in their own time…like jim comey.
No they haven’t shown innumerency. They have pointed out a fact. In reality, that is what would happen.
The question is whether the main population norm best models reality.
No big deal.
Or better put….their family line is the correct ‘population’ in reality. We don’t know enough about that population so we use a reference population that we believe appropriately models their specific population.
Swank to the weatherman: “the correct weather is whether it rains tonight. But since we don’t know that, we must rely on reference data. I went to a T14 law school. I’m smart!”
Weatherman: “so that’s what they learn in law school”
i will bet $0.50 that the raiders will beat the 49ers.
swank exhibits the lawyer’s conceit.
that he can grok anything. swarming with words.
swank doesn’t get it.
if every lawyer were required to have UG degree in mathematics people lie swank would not be a problem.
#checkmate
not what i said…
…more like ‘hey you should consider whether your chosen reference data best models the present conditions.’
If you were to stumble on a history book that said something like “before affirmative action, almost all blacks at elite universities came from Wisconsin”, then instead of regressing them to the national black average (IQ 85) I’d regress them to the Wisconsin black average (95 at the time). But until then we can’t just assume they regressed to a high IQ sub-population within the U.S. black population.
Cool, you get my point and are simply disagreeing about what level of ‘proof’ is required before utilizing a different population norm (apparently only a history book pretty much stating that these blacks belong to a specific black population — lol — will do rather than commonsense arguments).
But the difference is your common sense argument isn’t telling me anything one couldn’t already guess from the known data.
It’s a given that super educated blacks will have relatively high IQ families and be more culturally white (on average) given the correlation between education & family IQ and presumably cultural whiteness. So factoring this in becomes redundant & likely an over-correction
By contrast the fact that almost all of them came from Wisconsin would be genuinely new information, independent of what we already could have deduced given that the correlation between geography and education is not high enough to have predicted this a priori.
I suppose you can address the issue with whether the correlation would be the same between both groups, whether the norm would be different between both groups, or whether the rarity would be one that would still admit much of a difference between means.
You’re saying that the correlation as/is takes care of anything I’ve brought up which negates any need to consider a different population norm. Whatevs, let’s just focus on what we agree on — the rarity.
I mean, Edward Bouchet received a PhD in 1874 and extrapolating from census data has blacks at around 4 million population (3.6 in 1850, so just adding a bit over 20 years). So, I mean….it seems safe to say that the feat of a black pre-AA getting into such a position was more like 1 in a million at that time. Maybe 1 in a hundred thousand some years later.
“A class-based affirmative action policy was incorporated into the admission practices of the four most selective universities in Israel during the early to mid-2000s. In evaluating the eligibility of applicants, neither their financial status nor their national or ethnic origins are considered. The emphasis, rather, is on structural disadvantages, especially neighborhood socioeconomic status and high school rigor, although several individual hardships are also weighed. This policy made the four institutions, especially the echelons at the most selective departments, more diverse than they otherwise would have been. The rise in geographic, economic and demographic diversity of a student population suggests that the plan’s focus on structural determinants of disadvantage yields broad diversity dividends.[39]
Israeli citizens who are; Women, Arabs, Blacks or people with disabilities are entitled to Affirmative Action in the civil service employment.[40] Also Israeli citizens who are Arabs, Blacks or people with disabilities are entitled for Affirmative Actions are entitled for full University tuition scholarships by the state.[41]”
If jews really do have AA for arabs I will eat my shoes and uninstall all the toilets in my house.
Sth like 25% of the Israeli pop is arab I think. Prob more if the right of return is ever given to the arabs they threw out to make Israel. I strongly doubt they give arabs AA.
Jewish power is much weaker in Europe than it is in the U.S. pill. Why do you think France opposed the Iraq war? The reason why it seems like Jews run Europe is that Holocaust guilt causes them to be pro-Jewish and pro-diversity by extension.
Why is Macron the president then of France? Why are the UK/France/Germany worried about russia ‘hacking their elections’. Theyve definitely taken control in the years since the Iraq War.
n the UK, any discrimination, quotas or favouritism due to sex, race and ethnicity among other “protected characteristics” is generally illegal for any reason in education, employment, during commercial transactions, in a private club or association, and while using public services.[6][7][8] The Equality Act 2010 established the principles of equality and their implementation in the UK.
This is a lie. Every major corporation that I know of has quotas and AA hiring. Especially for women. Not so much asians. In the UK asians are basically Indians/Pakis.
If you are magical you can demand a top role in any corporation.
The only curious exception to this is becoming a barrister in which its basically open nepotism.
The british are comically weak and limp wristed when it comes to minorities and that. If you look at the pakistani child sex rings across the country, basically the police let 20000 girls over 30 years get sexually abused but didnt do anything in case they would be seen as racist. This is what happens when jews mind control you and you are too weak.
it’s thatcher and loads-o-money. if “the establishment” were still in power in blighty jewish subversion would be feckless.
the funny thing…
if the sovereign were ever a SERIOUS person…
he (or she) could FORCE a genuine “constitutional crisis”.
AND THE RESULT OF SUCH A CRISIS IS NOT OBVIOUS.
crossing my fingers it happens.
the king is just a figure-head…
and so far as he exercises his power he will lose it.
REALLY???
why does this appear as a post from “swank”?
It does that once in a blue moon
why affirmative action based on race, class, or anything else?
it is a band-aid on the suppurating wound of capitalism.
DUH!
it’s heroic efforts to save a dying beast.
all of the legal and/ore mass media recognized categories of people…
they shouldn’t care…unless it means poverty.
and at this point no one needs to be poor in the western world.
no one.
poverty remains to the extent that the western world is ruled by a sociopathic elite.
poverty is more than economics, muggy.
social poverty exists.
inequity in and of itself injures the soul.
justice is a fundamental need humans have, which is why the cognitive bias of the just world exists. people NEED fairness.
and this is why equity being written into the common law via the Church and influenced heavily by the schoolmen was the start of the world’s salvation.
one day you’ll understand.
the funny thing…
if the sovereign were ever a SERIOUS person…
/
he (or she) could FORCE a genuine “constitutional crisis”.
AND THE RESULT OF SUCH A CRISIS IS NOT OBVIOUS.
crossing my fingers it happens.
the king is just a figure-head…
and so far as he exercises his power he will lose it.
REALLY???
such “studies” don’t take into account that the hr people or whoever, know (or suspect) that they’re being played.
the problems with AA are many.
a duke expressed one of the problems…i paraphrase…
the thing about being a duke is everyone assumes you’re an idiot, but if you show that you’re not a complete idiot people assume you’re a lot smarter than you really are.
duke = black.
This is an interesting phenomenon which is probably true. I wonder if there’s a name for it.
who cares
the same applies if you’re handsome or a trust fund kid
loadsa loadsa loadsa…
Pumpkin must have all of our ip adresses. Does some of us post from an anonymizer ? I have one but almost never use it. Are people ip consistant with their bio ? I thought Philo was an American living in the UK … I am pretty sure Afro is French like me.
It wouldn’t surprise me IN THE LEAST if Afro and Swanky were from an Israeli IP. Theres a thing called the JIDF which is an Israeli government funded operation of internet trolls. Look it up. Its not me joking around this time. Its a real thing.
Who ever you are , I find you an amusing and interesting character.
I don’t think your really serious in your racist stuff. When you said Afro would be shiting in the middle of the street and cleaning himself with his own hands if he hadn’t met white people, it’s both very funny, but can’t be serious.
I don’t think anyone on this blog is a serious hardcore sociopathic racist, in the sense they would beat up/seriously injure a black person if they could do so (maybe excepting that Jimmy guy).
What I instead see are a bunch of nerdy/high-IQ white guys who are fed up with the status quo in this country, particularly as far as mainstream discussions surrounding race and sex (and maybe class). To be honest if I were a white guy, I probably would be too.
It’s unfortunate that so many discussions get sidetracked into attacks on Afro/discussions about his notch count/BBCs/nerds vs. jocks and petty stuff like that (which I think is partly driven by Afro). Because I think the sexual jealousy issue is at most only a small part of the growing white resentment. For the most part black men and white men date different sets of women. I know the back and forth between Afro and the other commenters is just fun and games…..but c’mon, ENOUGH ALREADY!
And yeah, the only other thing that sometimes annoy me is the repititive one-note nature of Pill’s and RR posts. Although at least RR tries to back himself up with studies.
I 100% believe stuff that I say, unlike some commentators.
80% of my friends are Black including my best friend who is Amhara, but I really dislike Blacks born in Western countries, I like people born into African immigrant families or African immigrants themselves. They don’t have any of the terrible mindset common in slave-born Blacks. They are just normal people living their lives.
Fenoopy went the “I have black friends” route. Haha.
peepee should do a post on the IQ of patrick little and other alt-righters.
they aren’t the smartest, but they are A LOT smarter than the MSM would have everyone believe.
This argument is relevant. Afro and PP, thoughts on this argument?
1) The leadership of the state ought roughly to represent the state’s population, ethnically and racially.
2) As the state’s premier training ground for leadership, the University ought to graduate rising generations of future leaders that conform to this representational goal.
3) To graduate such rising generations, it needs to admit racially and ethnically representative classes.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/affirmative-action/
Surely people will contest the second premise.
1) If the state is a democracy, its leadership should represent the population as the sum of its individuals and not as the sum of its subgroups. What is the official status of race and ethnicities in the US beyond census categories?
2) That’s my main quibble with affirmative action. It would be more effective at the bottom of the social ladder than at its top. The main consequence of discrimination is poverty. Under-representation in the elite is irrelevant to the life of the other 99%. What difference would it make if minority representation doubled at the congress or on the boards of directors of the largest companies? Not much.
On the other hand, if minorities had priority on low to medium level jobs, it would break cycles of inter-generational poverty and would lead to roughly racially representative elite college enrollment demographics in a few generations and this would in turn be reflected in leadership. But knowing that minorities have priority on plumber jobs would alienate the white middle and lower class even more than priority at Ivy League colleges does. And neither party wants that.
3) I’m meh on Affirmative Action in general. There are pros and cons, I think the cons outweigh the pros by a modest margin in the current US situation. If what we want is to address the injustices of the past and the present, direct cash transfers and tax exemptions are much more straightforward. That’s what I think would be the most suitable in the US.
I’ve never been pro affirmative action in France though, I think it’s not needed, especially considering that most of the diversity here is made of people who are either born overseas or have dual citizenship, they always have the option to return to their origin country if they don’t like it here.
“leadership should represent the population as the sum of its individuals and not as the sum of its subgroups”
What do you mean “should represent the population as the sum of its individuals”?
“What is the official status of race and ethnicities in the US beyond census categories?”
I don’t know but the Census picks out biological kinds, or is a proper name for a population group (Hardimon, Spencer). That’s good enough for me.
“The main consequence of discrimination is poverty. Under-representation in the elite is irrelevant to the life of the other 99%. What difference would it make if minority representation doubled at the congress or on the boards of directors of the largest companies? Not much.”
This is a good point, but the rationale is, I presume, that they would help the less-fortunate of their race/ethnicity.
As for (3), obviously, the point of affirmative action is to right the wrongs of the past. And the logic of this argument presumes that (1) the state leadership should only be representative of the state racial/ethnic demographics and nothing more; (2) since state Universities are important for leadership, then ethnic minorities should be promoted more in order to meet demographics for the state in question; therefore (3) affirmative action should be used so state leadership can better reflect ethnic/racial demographics of the state in question.
On purely logical grounds, the arguments you quoted make a good defense of affirmative action. That is, if affirmative action is there for the elite to be representative of the ethno-racial composition of the country, then it’s okay. But it’s plain tokenism and it is not what affirmative action should be.
Among smart people, class interests > race interests. So, more minorities in leadership positions =/= more care for the social issues of minorities.
Blacks ruling black majority areas are even more corrupt than whites in the same positions I assume. If those blacks were helped at some point in their career by affirmative action, it ironically results in a net negative for the average black who’s just getting by and now has a corrupt official in his local government.
If the new CEO of the company is black thanks to affirmative action, that won’t result in promotions and pay raises for the black employees, the black CEO is just as slave to the mostly white shareholders as a white CEO would.
So diversifying the elite is just pointless.
But not every decision by an elite is based on personal gain so black leaders should be better for blacks ceteris paribus
Hardly. Just because you’re black doesn’t mean you make black advancement a priority in your decisions. I’d rather have Swank than Gondwanaman as my next boss.
Afro,
“On purely logical grounds, the arguments you quoted make a good defense of affirmative action. That is, if affirmative action is there for the elite to be representative of the ethno-racial composition of the country, then it’s okay. But it’s plain tokenism and it is not what affirmative action should be.”
Well, that is the point of the argument.
I do kinda agree but kinda don’t.
“So diversifying the elite is just pointless.”
Here’s the rationale:
In order to cultivate a set of leaders with legitimacy in the eyes of the citizenry, it is necessary that the path to leadership be visibly open to talented and qualified individuals of every race and ethnicity. All members of our heterogeneous society must have confidence in the openness and integrity of the educational institutions that provide this training. As we have recognized, law schools “cannot be effective in isolation from the individuals and institutions with which the law interacts.” See Sweatt v. Painter, supra, at 634. Access to legal education (and thus the legal profession) must be inclusive of talented and qualified individuals of every race and ethnicity, so that all members of our heterogeneous society
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/539/306/case.html
PP, maybe. Though Chicago doesn’t look too good.
Well, this is a terrible rationale. It’s just cosmetic and meant to keep the myth of post-racial America alive. Then the racists can go “Racism? What racism? The CEO is black so it’s impossible that the [ overwhelmingly white] managers discriminate against black employees and applicants! Duh!”
You don’t need to belong to a population to understand its issues. The white mayor of New Orleans has been better to the blacks than all the mayors of Detroit.
that’s because the real leaders are the billionaires. The politicians are just puppets. They pretend to represent the voters but they really represent the donors. Solution is campaign finance reform & the breakup of media monopolies.
Eh, nah. I don’t think so. In France, campaign financing is very regulated, political parties can’t get huge amounts of money from donors. Yet the French elite isn’t that much closer to the people, and illegal campaign financing scandals happen at every election.
Another noteworthy thing about France is that despite the absence of affirmative action, non-white representatives at the parliament are 6.35% of the parliament after excluding the black representatives from the overseas départements of the Caribbean, la Réunion and Guyana. So 6,35% of the parliament are non-whites (mostly blacks, a few Arabs and one Asian) elected in white-majority areas. That’s something I find it quite remarkable because it virtually reflects what I think is the racial demographics of the age groups and social groups that typically are in leadership positions in France. And that’s without affirmative action.
But as I said before, these non-whites will advance their class interests before anything else. They’re rich, mostly affiliated with center-right parties, they have campaigned for Macron and he’s allies free-market agenda and not as representatives of their ethnic groups.
Well correct me if I’m wrong, but France has a very strong old boys network because unless you attended an elite school (that few non-rich people can attend) you’re excluded from positions of leadership.
By contrast in the U.S. people from humble schools often achieve political power & the elite schools themselves reach out more to the poor & black through scholarships & affirmative action
But in the U.S. people from the middle class end up as puppets for the upper class via campaign donations/media monopolies
By contrast in France, the upper class don’t need to buy politicians, they become them
It would be interesting to know what percentage of students at Grandes Écoles are non-foreign blacks
More or less. Except France doesn’t have a bipartisan system so the many small parties, especially those of the left and the far right, open a window for humble people. Otherwise, yes, the main parties recruit essentially from inherited privilege.
I think the points I made provide the rationale for the argument. If anything, at least for state-level representation.
You don’t need to belong to a population to understand its issues. The white mayor of New Orleans has been better to the blacks than all the mayors of Detroit.
no frog would know such a thing or think he knew it.
I’d rather have Swank than Gondwanaman as my next boss...
at the Popeyes Famous Fried Chicken & Biscuits.
“that’s because the real leaders are the billionaires. The politicians are just puppets. They pretend to represent the voters but they really represent the donors.”
Yes exactly, ‘democracy’ is rule of money and that’s why Zionists have been losing control since Communist China became the world’s largest economy.
Yes, that’s true Pumpkin. But France is also rules by billionaires.
– First, in the 50 and 60, two third of Paris 100K building (and 1M flats) belong to less than 200 people. They sold and invested in stock. Business is stil controles by private hands.
– The difference is that now, old boy top public servants, constitute 50% of the C-level in big corporate. Among those people, there is lots of middle-class people like in HYP.
– Media are controled half by govt and half by big business. So the billionnaires absolutely need to control public opinion, even if donations to parties are severy limited by law.
– There are two field outside old boy schools grasp : law and medicine. That’s why in Afro field, it’s quite rare to get people from ENA, Polytechnique or Ulm that are the 3 main elite schools. In those businesses, it’s more upper middle class values, who you knows that counts. What’s good for them is that law firm partners in France in top 100 firms make on average a 750 K euros benefit a year, wich is very similar to american or UK firm, despite them no being from elite scholastic background at all.
If you take the core curriculum. There are lots of masters degree who doesnt qualify at Grandes Ecoles because they didn’t pass the entry competition (concours) and aren’t recognized as Grandes Ecoles alumni. Concours is all that counts.
I would say that there are less than 1% black or arabic people (not foreign born) in top Schools. It’s less than in Caltech … It’s more open in Business Grandes Ecoles (HEC, ESSEC and ESCP Europe) but below 5%. There is no stat, but you can see promotion pictures ….
For example, here you have a school INET that recruits top civil servants for local authorities. They have the monopoly for all France for tenure in general management job. They recruit graduates (50%) and people with professional experience (50%) wich is a way of opening the recruitment but always with the Concours.
You have all people names and picture for each promotion. It looks like 5% are minorites and black would be half of them. Some from French caraib and also from Madagascar migrants. There is 2% people with arabic names. Almost no asian. Competition is mostly verbal, and careers goes from 60K to 180K per year, very competitive asian want more money.
Click to access 11800-trombi-inet-1.5.pdf
https://inet.cnfpt.fr/recruter/eleves-administrateur-rice-s-territoriaux-ales/anciennes-promotions-eleves-administrateurs-territoriaux
I advize not playing jokes to those people who are by definition well connected to government and police.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of students at Grandes Écoles are non-foreign blacks
There are no native blacks in France. Nearly all blacks were either born overseas, have foreign born parents or were adopted. Quickly looking at the black representatives’ bios , they’re all middle aged and the majority were born overseas .
That’s why in Afro field, it’s quite rare to get people from ENA, Polytechnique or Ulm that are the 3 main elite schools
Polytechnique is not a leadership school though, it’s an engineering school. And these are public, very meritocratic schools that charge less than €500 a year for French students. The overwhelming majority of the private sector leadership comes from private business schools and Science Po (law, management, political science, journalism), and in the public sector from ENA and Sciences Po. Some high rank regular universities also have selective programs in law and business.
You have all people names and picture for each promotion. It looks like 5% are minorites and black would be half of them. Some from French caraib and also from Madagascar migrants. There is 2% people with arabic names. Almost no asian. Competition is mostly verbal, and careers goes from 60K to 180K per year, very competitive asian want more money.
Only 2% with Arab names? Dubious, or these are all Jews. I’d expect 5%, including 4% Jews.
By non-foreign I meant French citizens. Of the French citizens at Grandes Écoles, what percentage are black? If blacks are 5% of French citizens, one might expect them to be a much smaller percentage of the citizens at elite schools if there’s no affirmative action, unless French black citizens are themselves more elite than blacks elsewhere (selective migration?).
There are no stats. Blacks in France are not an homogenous population. And various populations of blacks have different social characteristics.
Muslims from the Sahel and Mayotte (mainly Senegal and Mali) are low class, people from the Caribbean départements, Haïti, Guyana and La Réunion are mostly middle class and are very integrated in terms of intermarriage and mixed race birth. People from West-Central Africa (Benin, Togo, Southern Côte d’Ivoire, Gabon, the Congo, Rwanda and Burundi) and Madagascar are very selected migrants, mostly upper-middle class, similar to Asians in the UK.
The latter group would be very over-represented in the elite, the other two would be severely underrepresented.
The far right often uses sickle cell anaemia screening stats in newborns to estimate what percentage of the young population is black, MENA and South Asian. But Southern Europeans are screened sometimes too.

Pumpkin, told you, black French citizens, either from Outre Mer or migrants, are less than 1% among elite institutions recruiting by concours. I would say it is closer to 0% than 1%.
Then some prestigious institutions – not grande evokes – have developed special recruitments procédure like Sciences Po , going after talent individuals in the ghettos. But it’s not Grandes Écoles (yet).
Competition is mostly verbal, and careers goes from 60K to 180K per year, very competitive asian want more money.
Uh!? The number of people who make more than €180K from their job is not more than a few tens of thousands in France. It is not a high wage country for elite professionals compared to the English-speaking world.
Where in the world is Sciences Po isn’t a Grande Ecole? It’s a member of Conférence des Grandes Ecoles and it’s probably the number one school in terms of alumni in the media, second in politics.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d%27%C3%A9l%C3%A8ves_de_Sciences_Po_Paris
Polytechnique isn’t an elite school, it may be very selective but it’s an engineering school and tuition is virtually free there. The real elite schools are those with programs that relate to law, business, finance, public administration and the media. This is the ruling class of the country. ENA may come first in terms of alumni in politics and public administration, but with the new direction initiated by Macron which has booted out the old Mandarinate, HEC Paris, which is undeniably the top provider of private sector leaders (4th school with Forbes 500 CEO alumni in the world), is close to becoming the new ENA.
Also, you’re considerably underestimating the ethnic and racial diversity in the top schools especially those that train for ruling class positions. These are certainly not more than 99% white as you pretend. More like 95% white. That may not look like a huge difference but the country is no less than 80% white (10% Arab, 5% black, 5% mixed/other).
Sciences Po not a Grande Ecole… I still can’t swallow it.
The Paris Institute of Political Studies (French: Institut d’études politiques de Paris, French pronunciation: [ɛ̃s.ti.ty de.tyd pɔ.li.tik də pa.ʁi]), commonly referred as Sciences Po (French pronunciation: [sjɑ̃s po]), is a highly selective French university (legally a grande école). It was founded as a private institution by Émile Boutmy in 1872 to promote a new class of French politicians in the aftermath of the French defeat in the Franco-Prussian War of 1871[1] and grew to become a highly influential academic institution in the social sciences in France.
Alumni include many notable public figures, including 32 heads of state or government, 7 of the past 8 French Presidents, 3 past heads of the International Monetary Fund, heads of international organisations (including the UN, WTO, IMF and ECB), and six of the CAC 40 CEOs. In 2018 it was ranked as the world’s 4th best school for politics and international studies behind Harvard, Oxford and Princeton.[2]
^^
Magic Negro
No Sciences Po is not a Grandd Ecole. Conférence des grandes écoles has more than 200 institutions, so it’s Grandes Écoles lato sensu.
Stricto sensu, it’s only 10 engineering schools, 3 business schools and some government schools (4 for research école normale, ENA, ENM for judges, Chartes for director of archives, 3 Military schools). Then, you have plenty of tier 2 , 3 and 4 Grandes Écoles.
Sciences Po is a selective university. They don’t pose as Grandes Écoles because there is no preparatory school. On the contrary, Sciences Po strongly advised against any (private) preparatory school. I would say Sciences Po is the equivalent of London School of economics. But it’s not in the cultural frame of Grandes Écoles where people have to study 15 hours a day during 2 or 3 years to pass a competition based on mastering a lost of knowledge. Then many people from Grandes Écoles enters sciences Po in 4th year with a view of preparing ENA or just getting a Public law and administration culture (so impoortant in France).
As for money, average revenue of notary is 240k and there are 8000 ! 30% of 200k physician, so 60k earns more than 180k a year. The average salary of the 2000 law firm partners in Paris is 750. There are 4000 traders earning an average of 600k. Most executive management of top120 firms are above 120k etc etc …. that’s why public sector is not that attractive outside of ENA …
And the director says it better. We are a selective university much more than a Grandes École first because of our size (13 000 students). Most Grandes Écoles have less than 1500 students in their core program (Ena has 160, Mines or Ponts have 300)
https://mobile.lemonde.fr/campus/article/2018/04/08/sciences-po-se-veut-une-universite-selective_5282421_4401467.html
No Sciences Po is not a Grandd Ecole. Conférence des grandes écoles has more than 200 institutions, so it’s Grandes Écoles lato sensu.
Stricto sensu, it’s only 10 engineering schools, 3 business schools and some government schools (4 for research école normale, ENA, ENM for judges, Chartes for director of archives, 3 Military schools). Then, you have plenty of tier 2 , 3 and 4 Grandes Écoles.
“Il n’existe pas de liste officielle des grandes écoles. La définition qu’en donne le ministère de l’Éducation nationale dans l’Arrêté du 27 août 1992 relatif à la terminologie de l’éducation est très large : « Établissement d’enseignement supérieur qui recrute ses élèves par concours et assure des formations de haut niveau1. »”
There’s no such thing as tier 1, 2, 3… Grandes Ecoles, they collectively are tier 1 higher education institutions in France.
Sciences Po is a selective university. They don’t pose as Grandes Écoles because there is no preparatory school.
Man… There are lots of prépas Sciences Po, the only difference is that a tiny minority manage to pass the concours without attending a prépa and that contrary to a school like HEC, students at Sciences Po attended a larger diversity of prépas instead of a few prestigious ones in Paris and the western suburbs.
I would say Sciences Po is the equivalent of London School of economics.
More like the social science departments of Ivy League colleges.
But it’s not in the cultural frame of Grandes Écoles where people have to study 15 hours a day during 2 or 3 years to pass a competition based on mastering a lost of knowledge.
Well, it’s more because it started as a private school and it doesn’t have the spirit of the old Napoleonic schools. I think you have a pro-STEM bias and you tend to disregard most things verbal as lesser intellectual pursuits, but the achievements of Sciences Po’s alumni speak for themselves, Polytechnique doesn’t compare so well in this measure.
Then many people from Grandes Écoles enters sciences Po in 4th year with a view of preparing ENA or just getting a Public law and administration culture (so impoortant in France).
Yes, that’s also because a mention of Sciences Po on one’s résumé is a must have for anyone with top career ambitions. Then it’s also a good place for networking.
As for money, average revenue of notary is 240k and there are 8000 ! 30% of 200k physician, so 60k earns more than 180k a year. The average salary of the 2000 law firm partners in Paris is 750. There are 4000 traders earning an average of 600k. Most executive management of top120 firms are above 120k etc etc …. that’s why public sector is not that attractive outside of ENA …
Please make sure you provide figures in euros.
-Notaire:
Un débutant (notaire stagiaire ou assistant) gagne entre 1 550 et 1 800 € brut par mois. Ensuite, les revenus du notaire varient considérablement (de 1 800 à 8 800 € par mois) en fonction de l’importance de l’office où il exerce. Certaines études dégagent des revenus très confortables.
-Physicians:
-Law firm partners:
well, I don’t even need a source, it’s impossible that €750K is the average, it would mean the top lawyers would make as much as CAC40 CEOs, which is obviously absurd. €750K is more like what the very best paid lawyers in Paris make.
-Executive management: yeah, about thout, though it’s not a lot of people.
that’s why public sector is not that attractive outside of ENA …
ENA just graduates 90 French students a year anyway. It’s not just the public sector that’s not attractive, it’s the whole country. The pay is shit, taxes are high, life is not cheap, that’s why France exports so many professionals and attracts very little, except professionals from poorer countries. And even then, we don’t get the best.
All in all, I’d say no more than 100,000 people in France make more the €200K a year from a job, though my best guess would be closer to 50,000. Or maybe I’m biased because most people I know primarily live off interests on savings and investments and work to kill time. Money is taboo here anyway so it’s hard to know how many people earn how much, but your above figures are clearly inflated.
Europe is terrible for higher pay, it’s similar in the UK with high taxes and low salaries for skilled professionals, I’ll definitely move to America, maybe even China to invest in the future.
And the director says it better. We are a selective university much more than a Grandes École first because of our size (13 000 students). Most Grandes Écoles have less than 1500 students in their core program (Ena has 160, Mines or Ponts have 300)
I get this. However, Sciences Po is still a Grande Ecole and offers many of the most prestigious programs in their own field. It has to do with the fact that the old Grandes Ecoles have a more and more negative image (technocracy, esotericism, archaism) and a school like Sciences Po has global ambitions so it doesn’t want to associate with a tradition of higher learning that most people out of France would find irrelevant in the 21st century.
I think we’re having this debate, or let’s call it a conversation, because we have different definitions of “elite”. I guess you understand elite as those who have the highest “IQ”, whereas I understand elite as those who run the country. By your definition, I don’t disagree, I don’t believe in IQ but I’d say what you call tier 1 Grandes Ecoles are the apex of academic excellence in France. However, when it comes to which schools train and shape the culture of the people that rule France, it’s HEC, Sciences Po, ENA, the engineering schools are secondary, though some of their alumni have occupied very high positions of leadership after some time spent at prestigious social sciences, law and business institutions.
Afro lucky for you because people living on capital in France is a tiny minority. Yes I agree the number must be around 50k to 100k people.
For notary, you took data for salaried notaries. Those are employee. I speak about the office holders. It would be the same as pharmacist owners or employee.
For Grandes Écoles, yes there are huge differences in prestige and it tags people until their death. They name their school still at 55 yo when they take an executive position in the papers and even in obituary. It’s part of what it is to be French. True, for rich aristocrats, some of them have been reluctant to play this game. That’ may explain your comments. For the record, I have grades from 2 Grandes Écoles and I also graduated from Sciences Po , so I don’t despize the school ….
As for lawyers, you deserve some more explanation as your are in the field. Here is a serious ranking of law firm productivity. The benefit per Partner (before taxes but after paying all office charges) is on average 40% of the revenue per partner when the leverage is 1 to 2 maximum, it’s around 30% for 3 up to 6, and for very leveraged firm (like EY, Price, Fidal, etc ) it goes as low as 15%.
So an average Partner at EY makes 180k euro. An average partner at Clifford or Cleary makes 1M. Inside firms (except audit who are much lower), it goes from 200k to 3M with an average of 750k for top 50 firms on productivity (per associate, not per partner).
And for the record, the average benefit per lawyer who are not in individual practice in Paris (selarl or selas or snc) is 180K.
As always, the magazine capital (the paper not the tv show) as good information :
https://www.google.fr/amp/s/www.capital.fr/votre-carriere/avocats-notaires-greffiers-les-juteuses-remunerations-des-professions-liberales-1219347%3famp
Click to access Decideurs_Guide_annuaire_2017.pdf
Hey Bruno, look at this, that was 10 years ago but I guess it’s roughly the same now.
Ils sont tous des dirigeants et des financiers. Une grande partie travaille en Ile-de-France, habite dans l’Ouest parisien et gagne en moyenne 215.600 euros par an.
Une étude de l’Institut national de la statistique et des études économiques (INSEE) publiée jeudi, révèle qu’en 2007, les 1 % de salariés les mieux rémunérés du secteur privé (soit 133.000 personnes ayant touché au moins 124.573 euros) ont gagné en moyenne 215.600 euros brut, c’est-à-dire sept fois plus que la moyenne des salariés à temps complet.
On désigne par le terme de « très hauts salaires » les personnes qui ont déclaré aux services fiscaux les revenus (par unité de consommation) les plus élevés, c’est à dire plus de 84.500 euros par an, souligne cette étude basée sur des chiffres de 2007.
Dans cette catégorie, par exemple, un couple de cadres supérieurs gagnant chacun 5.300 euros nets par mois ou un ménage avec deux enfants dont les ressources atteignent près de 15.000 euros nets par mois.
Principalement, ces très hauts salaires (THS) sont des dirigeants d’entreprise, des professionnels de la finance (cadres des services financiers en entreprise, traders…), des cadres commerciaux.
Il y a également une faible part de spécialistes de l’informatique, dans les communications, ainsi que des ingénieurs de l’industrie et des pilotes du transport aérien.
Et enfin, l’Insee distingue le dernier groupe de ces THS qui est celui des sportifs de haut niveau dont le salaire moyen est de plus de 400.000 euros par an, particulièrement élevé.
Les très hauts salaires en 2007 par profession
Then there’s a table of the various sectors, check it out here.
https://blogs.mediapart.fr/m-challali/blog/020410/les-133000-tres-hauts-salaires
So my intuition was right, only 133,000 professionals earned more than €125K in 2007. Now in 2018 maybe this number is above 150,000, but those above the €200K threshold would be only a little more than 50,000.
Afro lucky for you because people living on capital in France is a tiny minority.
You may reconsider. France is the old money country par excellence. The gentry may not be as ostentatious as it is in Britain, but just look at France’s billionaire rankings and you’ll mainly find heirs. Self-made men are not only a small fraction of the ultra-rich, but they’re not valued at all. Business success is still seen as vulgar and France has been a republic with intense feudal envy ever since the 1789 revolution. There are 580,000 dollar millionaires in France, I’m a hundred percent sure capital income accounts for the major part of earnings for all but the bottom quintile, people who just up own 1 million plus a few hundred thousands more and have few income-generating assets.
It’s part of what it is to be French. True, for rich aristocrats, some of them have been reluctant to play this game. That’ may explain your comments. For the record, I have grades from 2 Grandes Écoles and I also graduated from Sciences Po , so I don’t despize the school
Fair enough, you just seemed to downplay the overwhelming influence of the Sciences Po in the ruling elite.
As always, the magazine capital (the paper not the tv show) as good information :
I don’t know how they got the info and how to properly calculate how much of these sums classify as personal income. But stats from INSEE drawn from Trésor Public reports align much better with my informed intuitions.
Yes i agreed with the 50k to 100k but the article you give tends toward a higher figure …. because « salariés et dirigeants » is less than half the people from this category where you have to add all the one I spoke about : physician, solicitors, notaries, pharmacist, and most independent professionals (expert comptables, architectes where the average is lower but where at least 5 to 10% make more ) .
So you would end around a bit more than 100k people I guess.
Yuck! Old money. This is why we need Communism.
Alright, I can get behind this estimate. Now back to your initial point that some people in France (you said materialistic Asians) would shun careers making “only” €60k to €180k a year, nah dude, people who make this money from their job can consider themselves very lucky, and if they want more before age 40, they’d rather move out of the country or become professional soccer players.
And back to the very first point that related to affirmative action, I think the 6.35% of non-whites at the parliament would reflect quite accurately the share of non-whites among the top 1% of professionals. Since it’s almost all of these representatives’ professional background.
And although they would still be underrepresented by a factor of nearly 4, I find it quite remarkable because it happens without affirmative action and because attaining such positions depends heavily on a familial culture that conditions you to reach the top since birth. And non-whites wouldn’t be the only underrepresented ones. So would be the non-jews, non-catholic (traditional sense), non-Parisians, non-Aristocrats… etc. And since it’s quite obvious that the son of a Cameroonian immigrant with post-graduate credentials has much better chances of reaching these positions than the son of an unemployed single-mother from a former mining town of the North, it reinforces my belief that there is no justification for affirmative action in France.
The reasons behind (1) are not good ones. Also, (1) is typically generalized to “elite-anything” ought to roughly represent the state’s population.
Why?
So people can tolerate fundamental inequities inherent to the system. The phantom of ‘representation’ in a higher class just fuels a delusion that one could be (or on some level is) a member of this class. It’s a strange example of false consciousness and why you see so many millions thrown at entertainers rather than say, teachers. It’s because people value this vicarious escape from their daily lives…that much.
However, if inequities that are largely the product of the state protecting various cartels are at the heart of the system…then it’s also strange to oppose state intervention on (3)’s level as well — very odd line in the sand to draw. And if the reasons supporting (1) are true, then (2) is a value that goes toward maintaining the system’s stability, although it should probably also generalize to other fields where university credentials are unimportant (entertainers/artists).
not elite basketball.
“The reasons behind (1) are not good ones.”
Why?
“Also, (1) is typically generalized to “elite-anything” ought to roughly represent the state’s population.”
Right but this is about state leadership and the admission of minorities into college, an argument for affirmative action.
“if inequities that are largely the product of the state protecting various cartels are at the heart of the system…then it’s also strange to oppose state intervention on (3)’s level”
Why oppose (3) on this basis? (3) concludes that in order to meet leadership goals, there needs to be, at least, a representative population of racial/ethnic groups in the institution.
“if the reasons supporting (1) are true, then (2) is a value that goes toward maintaining the system’s stability”
(2) only says that since (1) is true, that to attempt to meet (3), racial/ethnic minorities must be allowed on the basis of their representational status in said state’s population; if the reasons for supporting (1) are true, then (2) is a step towards enacting (3).
I explained one of the main reasons (1) is a compelling assumption:
So people can tolerate fundamental inequities inherent to the system. The phantom of ‘representation’ in a higher class just fuels a delusion that one could be (or on some level is) a member of this class. It’s a strange example of false consciousness and why you see so many millions thrown at entertainers rather than say, teachers. It’s because people value this vicarious escape from their daily lives…that much.
It’s a way to ensure people continue to participate in the system.
People can differ on whether this is good or bad, but I stated my belief on it.
And sure, we can limit the argument to state leadership — it doesn’t change my analysis — I was just pointing out that this same argument appears across many industries. And it’s because of that reason I pointed out in (1).
(3) concludes that in order to meet leadership goals, there needs to be, at least, a representative population of racial/ethnic groups in the institution.
Because the only reason this argument be discussed is if the status quo failed to reflect the current populous and we were tying this value to some kind of policy intervention. But even if not, it’s just an aside aimed at those who oppose state action favoring AA (the state action here would be refusing to apply the EP clause to such state of affairs and providing federal monies to Universities — as they already do — to said institutions, thus tacitly endorsing the practice).
Also, (3) concludes that the way to secure the graduating demographic in (2) is to admit by quota, which is vulnerable to the criticism that differing graduation rates may cast doubt on admission by representative sample achieving this end.
(2) only says that since (1) is true, that to attempt to meet (3), racial/ethnic minorities must be allowed on the basis of their representational status in said state’s population; if the reasons for supporting (1) are true, then (2) is a step towards enacting (3).
Yes, but I was giving the fundamental reason to agree with the policy value in (2): promoting the system’s stability. (1) gives the value arising from observing the inequities in the system. (2) establishes a secondary value proceeding from (1).
These premises aren’t divorced from context. Without being tied to values, they’re whatever. So first we need to establish why (1) would be a good value to hold. Then we need to establish a good reason to value (2). And the reasons supporting (1) do not necessarily make (2) a step toward enacting (3), as I pointed out.
“we need to establish why (1) would be a good value to hold”
If a state’s population is say 50 percent white, leadership should reflect that. Same thing for other races.
It’d be a “good value to hold” since they are preparing future leaders.
“we need to establish a good reason to value (2)”
(2) is self-evident.
That isn’t a reason why this specific value is good to hold. You’re just asserting X ought to be A. Okay. Why? What positive effect will come of this proportional representation?
You could say “ah, well in a democracy (which the US is de jure NOT) leaders that proportionally are like the population tend to make decisions which fairly reflect the viewpoints of those various factions,” too. But there needs to be a reason this ‘ought’ to be a certain way.
(2) is not self-evident. (2) is saying we should take ACTION to uphold this value. WHY? What will happen if we do NOT take action? There has to be a reason we should take action (in this case utilizing the universities).
So continuing from before — well, if we do not do something, policymakers will make worse decisions that fail to correctly reflect the popular will.
The argument as/is fails to justify itself in any way.
It’s basically (1) we should believe this (2) we need to do this to secure (1)(3) this is the way to achieve this outcome.
(1) Why?
(2) Why?
(3) Is it? (I already explained that graduation rates could actually require the University to admit proportions much different than the general populous to secure (2).
Only someone mentally retarded would endorse any of these premises.
Why is this moderated?
Off-topic
1) The leadership of the state ought roughly to represent the state’s population, ethnically and racially.
Disagree.
2) As the state’s premier training ground for leadership, the University ought to graduate rising generations of future leaders that conform to this representational goal.
Agree.
3) To graduate such rising generations, it needs to admit racially and ethnically representative classes.
Disagree, but only because I disagree with #1.
–
Overall, all 3 points are a good argument for affirmative action, a very good one presuming #1 is true.
The entire argument depends on #1 though, so ultimately worthless unless you entirely agree with #1 which people that oppose AA don’t, so I don’t see what worth this argument has besides preaching to the choir.
“Disagree.”
Why?
“Agree.”
Why?
“Disagree, but only because I disagree with #1.”
Why?
What’s the problem with (1)?
“The leadership of the state ought roughly to represent the state’s population, ethnically and racially.”
Why does ethnicity and race matter to the state? The state should be racially blind and select only through merit.
I agree with both premises but especially #1. The problem with #2 is that if they’re not qualified for the school it won’t be able to train them. The degree they get is hollow if it doesn’t reflect learning
Nonetheless all ethnic groups should have equal access to the best American education since all are needed to lead
But if affirmative action were truly about representation, then jews would be no more than 3% of Harvard.
That’s one pertinent issue, and that would end with every single ethnicity and religion of each race demanding its quota. And you’d have Scots-Irish advocacy, Italian, Creole, Cajun, Lutheran, Methodist… In the end, only English Episcopalians from New England would remain as the “majority”.
only a jew like afro would claim that jews are like lutherans.
“Nonetheless all ethnic groups should have equal access to the best American education since all are needed to lead”
So you agree with the argument?
“But if affirmative action were truly about representation, then jews would be no more than 3% of Harvard.”
Presume Jews as an ethnicity; leave religion out of it.
If afro is a jew is he a jewfro to muggy?
half negro half jew is a “jewgro”.
a “jewfro” is a jewish afro. like art garfunkel used to have.
I know that a jewfro is a jewish afro.
🙂
the multi-racial state is NOT a legitimate state.
the solution isn’t AA, it’s partition.
DUH!
Your thoughts, RR?
No comment.
how many problems come with diversity?
and all the benefits are short-term and only benefit the 1%.
this is a FACT.
that is, it may not be the way one would like things to be.
but it is the way they ARE.
because lion is a jew he wouldn’t post this.
if admission to uni were dependent 100% on objective exams (like it is in the whole world outside the US and hockey-stan) white gentiles would be represented at the same % as their % of the US. jews and asians would be 3x their %. blacks and latinos would be represented but at < 3% at elite unis.
“3x for asians? but their IQ is only” whatever.
asian americans are NOT representative of asians, AND they’re bimodal.
the asians who’ve been in the US forever are not especially high achievers.
they are descended from immigrants who came to work on the railroad, farm, work on a sugar plantation in hawaii, etc..
a lot of the recent asian immigrants have come as graduate students or high wage STEM workers.
I can’t wait till the day that Pumpkin writes a post when America turns into shreds, because America is like the Islamic empire of the past. Different tribes are tearing each other apart for petty power in the name of equality. The Muslims were doing it in the name of god.
It wasn’t just the Muslims, it happened to every great empire, the most recent decline being that of the Ottomans. Empires rise and fall, all old world races (besides West & Central Africans) have had their time.
This picture from the elite Ecole Polytechnique X school gives an idea of what french scholastic elite looks like :
frogs playing at being soldiers. sad!
Compared to Anglo Proles, French people are beta and nice.
Anglos are all about being domineering. It’s in our culture and it’s alpha.
Who says alpha is always good?
i agree: 99+% of frenchmen are bi.
this is why gerard depardieu is so sexy to french women. he’s in a tiny % of non gay or bi frenchmen.
Depardieu is absolutely gross to anybody gifted with correct sight and olfaction. And JS spews utter nonsense as usual.
École Polytechnique is a mix between MIT and Harvard MBA/Jd type of personalities. No one will become a soldier except 5/10 peop’e out of 400 who’ll work as armement engineers for the French army (become general in 15 years only)
The true military are people from Ecole Saint Cyr. There much less clever (even they are way above normal military people). More alpha. Much more conservative people :
http://www.forum-militaire.fr/topic/10091-grades-des-élèves-de-saint-cyr/
Anglo’s are sopping wet pussies. Source: live in England.
Then of course there are CHAVs, who are exceptionally stupid and violent, even more so than Blacks.
There’s definitely a genetic difference between these two classes of Whites.
Anglos are just savages which is alpha.
and the notion that there are subgroups of whites defined by religion or national origin which are under-represented in the commanding heights is FALSE.
there are polish jokes, but they aren’t serious.
the irish are alcoholics.
the italians are gangsters.
but irl irish and italian americans do better than WASPs. so if the US were 100% european by descent it is very unlikely any group could complain about discrimination.
you’d have micks and guineas, krauts and pollacks among the elite in %s very close to their % in the general population.
you’d have elite iberian americans like dos passos or the sheen family.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/16/diversity-fan-zone-blocked-from-opening-in-st-petersburg
This is funny.
So should we have AA in majority minority states? Or would AA then revert to having quotas for whites? e.g. south africa?
The answer is no because blacks are not as dumb or brainwashed as whites. Robert Mugabe, the real one knows what AAMM SAYIN!
Maybe someone else already has said this but…
Its the same with lending. Blacks with identical credit scores get discriminated by race, as race in itself is an predictor of bankruptcy.