Please post all off-topic comments for the week in this thread. They will not be posted in the main articles.
Sorry for the delayed open thread (they’re normally posted every Sunday) but I’ve been extremely busy. If all goes well (keep your fingers crossed) I’ll be leading the opening of a new office, and have been busy hiring local staff, finding an apartment that’s close to work, all while trying to get citizenship or at least a visa. Nothing like moving to a different location to test your ability to adapt. It tests social IQ (learning the etiquette of a different culture), verbal IQ (ability to rapidly learn a new language), spatial IQ (ability to find your way around), math IQ (converting currencies).
Can’t wait to test the locals, and I’m creating the first truly culture reduced test of conceptual ability.
And apologies for not posting about the GRE or sex differences yet since I was too busy to post any main articles last week, but I’ll likely get to it this week (if the username who asked me to post about it is still around)
Pumpkin Person 
https://pauldbwatkins.com/2014/11/12/ralph-ellison-invisible-man/
I sometimes wonder if the average IQ of humanities professors is a minus number.
Jeeeeeeeezzzzzz louise!!
Its like something I would write as a joke review.
It only went to the SECOND paragraph before it mentioned Treyvon Martin AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You know what? Fuck it. I’m going to pretend to be a liberal and become an academic or journalist and pump out garbage like the above. I can do it even better than these guys and I would keep laughing like Descartes did writing his jokey ‘proofs’ of why the Catholic Church is right about everything.
Can someone tell me the next step to becoming a liberal intellectual. Im not jewish, so this will be tough.
Which magazine or newspaper should I apply to? I was thinking I could moonlight the NYT “police harrassment” beat as the guy that normally does that probably smokes a lot of weed and would appreciate the shit I could make up.
I play a lot online with this former meth head and now, construction worker and I’ve never mentioned politics. But recently I’ve noticed a lot of the people that hack the games are latin american and did my Donald Trump impression. (“Theyre not sending their best!” etc). He was scared of saying anything racist and I simply said, “I don’t care if youre racist man”…little does he know of my alter ego ‘The Philosopher’ and his opinions HAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Even in the office I kept saying how brilliant gays are and how blacks will make the company even richer and wont sexually harrass anyone!
If you think about it, if a woman watches a lot of porn it probably means shes pretty disgusting. Most guys that jack off to porn don’t have gfs and that. So I dont know what the women’s excuse is
Young women watch porn. Watching doesn’t mean fapping, women are more cerebral.
Of course genius Afro thinks 60% of women watch porn weekly and most of it interracial gangbang porn. The affirmative action in his law school must have changed his ‘F’ grade to an ‘A’ grade because they were embarrassed no black was even cogent enough to graduate the law school and thus draw the ire of jews/SJWs saying the school ‘oppressed’ black students and that.
Thats enough for today!
Didn’t know Indian chicks were such a trip.
There is ZERO percent chance afro would be hired by any law firm or even have made it through high school if he was white academically from what I can tell of his intellect.
Said the middle aged virgin who’s been fired 15 times and got kicked out by his psychiatrist
Huh, I’m over 50% European and 25% Iberian and Italian. The other parts are 20% Chinese & Japanese, 20% Berber, the rest misc. I thought I was only 1/4 European and 1/2 Berber this entire time. One of my relatives must have lied or been ignorant. Maybe different amounts of each ancestry are passed down to each sibling, don’t know how it works. It’s probably impossible to tell how IQ genes work for mixed-race people too, especially with this many mixes. I guess largely Caucasoid, 1/5 Mongoloid.
North African Jews were originally from Spain and Portugal. Don’t you think the Iberian and Italian part come from your Berber side? That would be in line with your 1/2 Berber (45%). Then the rest would be 1/4 European, 1/4 East Asian.
I would think so, but I’m only 13% British, I thought I was 25% British. I’m almost completely Iberian otherwise, 6% Italian. I guess my father was a descendant of those expelled from Iberia. I am about 20% Algerian though (it doesn’t come up as Berber but I don’t know what the difference is, though they make a distinction between Berber and Algerian so who knows).
it’s funny how so many refer to the ashkenazi jews and the sephardi jews as if they were the only jews.
there are italian jews…jews from roman times who have lived in italy.
there are greek jews…jews from roman times who lived in greece.
yemeni jews.
falashas.
mountain jews of the caucasus.
central asian jews.
mizrahi jews.
but the formerly yiddish speaking, ladino speaking, and judeo-arabic speaking jews are 99% of jews.
and in the US 99% of jews are ashkenazi (formerly yiddish speaking).
the same in the UK.
but NOT in france.
I posted my DNA on another site and got 20% Ashkenazi/Levantine, Med Islander 17%, Ashkenazi 3.3%
This must mean all Kabyle Jews are originally from Spain/Iberia
JM8 did mention that I guess but I was skeptical till getting DNA results
Can you show a screenshot of your results ?
My biggest mix is European and of that is Med as expected, though I thought I’d be primarily southern med but it turns out I’m primarily northern Med. Also expected that I’d be 25% British but it turns out my grandfather is mixed English, not pure English which was a surprise.
The rest is East Asian (20%) and Algerian (20% to 22% I don’t remember, parents using the account right now). The other DNA is undefined or minor things like Arab, South Asian, East African etc
Do you have any results you can post?
Also I knew I was part Portuguese but Portugal didn’t show up.
“The rest is East Asian (20%) and Algerian (20% to 22% I don’t remember, parents using the account right now). The other DNA is undefined or minor things like Arab, South Asian, East African etc”
Can you show a screenshot of this part ?
“Do you have any results you can post?”
WTF YOU ARE NOT EVEN FRENCH
I’ll screenshot the rest of the results when I get home or ask my brother to login to my account and send me the share link
What color is your hair/eyes?
Blond/blue.
Ok take a look at this, I put my DNA in another website and I got this.
I guess one of them isn’t very accurate. It did pick up the general idea of my ancestry on this one though.
Also Dravidian??? Everything is believable except Dravidian, also that site has 100x smaller sample size than 23andme (DNA LAND)
If you pay attention to people a lot you can tell what they will do next. Same is true for hunting animals in the wild. It’s an attention mechanism. Knowing what people will do is seeing how they act. It is the same for drawing, you have to look.
has the supposed inbreeding of european aristocracy ever produced worse than King of Spain Charles II?
underbite + long nose.
caucasians and africans have overbites. far east asians and injuns have bite-bite or underbites…this is objectively ugly.
[photo redacted by pp, may 28, 2018]
hybrid vigor of inter-racial people doesn’t actually exist.
cousin marriage should be illegal but strangely it’s not. where is it illegal?
islam and judaism do NOT proscribe first cousin marriage.
therefore they are stupid.
Energy is low all the time. I spend more time listening than looking. I feel too tight inside to look. I am trying to pay attention more. To loosen up. It’s been compressed and bundled up such a long time. I just want it gone. So I can be fluid. So things don’t stop me from paying attention. Things we difficult so my mind just curled up trying not to make it worse. I just want things back to normal.
otis redding was also nonpareil but he has only two good songs imho.
kind of interesting…stephen fry (a pedo) goes on a tour of the US and he’s apparently let into a lucchese “social club”.
it’s just a wood paneled room with card tables and pictures of yankees world series teams. the people inside are harmless.
why shouldn’t criminals be professionals too?
but then there was the case of kenneth bianchi and his cousin angelo buono…very bad.
the new orleans lynching of ca 15 italian americans may have been (like so many lynchings) deserved. the police chief had been assassinated. perhaps thereafter cosa nostra in the US followed the rule “we only kill each other” whereas in the mezzogiorno they kill everybody.
what fraction of lynching victims were actually guilty? even if they didn’t deserve death.
it’s gotta be at least 50%.
I have no idea what the point is of most of this comment.
My Similarities score isn’t strong enough.
I’m glad you appreciate serial killers like I do😄
there is no point. that’s why this is the pointless thread. and swank claimed italians were lynched in large numbers. when other than this one instance in new orleans?
and i should have said they may have been guilty of conspiring to kill the police chief not that they deserved to be killed.
I think I had heard of the lynchings before but I hadn’t read about it until today.
From Wikipedia:
Most anti-Italian hostility in the United States was directed at Southern Italians, particularly Sicilians. This was especially true in the American South, where Southern Italians were not considered full-fledged members of the “white race”. The U.S. Bureau of Immigration reinforced this distinction, classifying Northern and Southern Italians as two different races.[54] Between 1890 and 1910, Sicilians made up less than 4 percent of the white male population, yet were roughly 40 percent of the white victims of southern lynch mobs. Before that, many white victims were ethnic Irish. They often had peripheral positions, working on construction of levees and railroads, and as farm workers.[55]
Sure Otis Redding only had “Sittin’ on the Dock” and “Try A Little Tenderness”.
But most pop artists only have at most 6 or 7 great songs. At MOST. And Otis Redding died really young.
There’s a handful of pop artists that have 2 or 3 “great” albums, where more than half of the album is listenable and memorable….
https://mobile.twitter.com/DegenRolf/status/1000459194120585216
Interesting article about the Flynn Effect. AnimeKat might like this.
“people may be reaching more advance Piagetian Stages at younger ages”
When I was 12 I used to make stop motion animation in Lego Movie Studios.
I knew stop motion was a thing when I was 8-10 and wanted to make a movie about sharks with my gell aquarium. It had a diver a shark and a gold chest.
When watching cartoons I was aware of character motivation.
Not much help in learning to draw though.
Making computers smart has been my motivation since 12.
I wonder how I followed the Piagetian Stages.
Kids have more opportunity to interact with a complex environment.
grind your teeth. notice where your incisors, lateral incisors, and canines are.
in 90+% of caucasians these front teeth on the upper jaw will come down to the gum line of their counterparts on the lower jaw.
it’s the same with black africans.
wonder how many orientals have had orthodonture for their lack of an overbite…the standard of another race.
does afro’s pretend girlfriend speak judeo-arabic or just arabic?
She speaks Modern Standard Arabic with a substrate of Moroccan Judeo-Arabic and Moroccan vernacular Arabic in informal conversations. But she can speak like Al-Jazeera in formal conversations.
DAMN your girlfriend sounds hot and exotic. I bet you show her a lot of appreciation. When you do the freaky thing
Oh yeah, you can trust me on that.
afro shows his wife is pretend.
she should speak ladino, not judeo-arabic.
Whatever.
“Ladino”, actually Judeo-Spanish is based on Spanish like Yiddish is based on German, it’s an extinct or close to extinct language.
Moroccan Jews speak the Moroccan variety of Judeo-Arabic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Moroccan_Arabic
Her mother tongue is French though, but when she talks to her grandparents, she uses a mixture of Judeo- Vernacular- Standard- Arabic. While she just uses standard Arabic in written language or when she talks to Non-Moroccan Arabs, though Tunisian and Algerian Jews understand her vernacular too.
So I got the correct explanation from her. Judeo-Moroccan Arabic isn’t a different language from vernacular Moroccan Arabic, it’s just the Moroccan dialect with some Hebraic loanwords, but nothing that a Muslim wouldn’t understand. It also has some Spanish loanwords as well as a lot of French. But it has nothing to do with Spanish at all.
We speak Darja. There’s no difference between Jew Darja and Muslim Darja. Jews use some Hebrew words but it’s more like slang than a ‘dialect’ or another language.
then your wife is NOT sephardic.
She’s Moroccan Jew, which is a mix of Native North African and Spanish Jew.
here’s the quote from wikipedia afro used to pretend.
Jews in Morocco, originally speakers of Berber languages, Judeo-Moroccan Arabic or Judaeo-Spanish, were the first in the country to adopt the French language, and unlike the general population, it remains the main (and in many cases, the exclusive) language of members of the Jewish community there.[3]
Lol, my quote is right next to me laughing at you. Of course she speaks French, but her family is bilingual or even trilingual for those who speak Modern Hebrew in addition to Arabic and French.
a mix of Native North African and Spanish Jew.
by “Native North African” you mean jews residing in morocco before the expulsion of the jews from spain. right?
Yes.
so you can see how the word “lynch” by itself has (((become))) INTENTIONALLY misleading.
according to the notoriously anti-italian wikipedia…
There was widespread suspicion in the city that an Italian network of criminals was responsible for the killing of the police chief…Believing the jury had been bribed, a mob broke into the jail…and killed eleven of the prisoners, most by shooting. The mob outside the jail numbered in the thousands and included some of the city’s most prominent citizens. American press coverage of the event was largely congratulatory, and those responsible for the lynching were never charged
THE ITALIANS ARE TOO SMART, TOO SOPHISTICATED, TOO STRONG…
TO EVER BITCH ABOUT BEING VICTIMS.
anything short of original intent takes advantage of the most vulnerable in american society…
namely…
dead people.
///
the much more flattering reality behind Goodfellas…
1. the real tommy was 6’2″ 225 lbs.
2. there was no spider. hill made him up.
3. tommy was (likely) killed by jimmy.
4. jimmy was not italian in appearance or in ancestry. he was irish.
did i post this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2598195/They-violent-gangsters-kill-traffic-drugs-kidnap-new-research-reveals-Mafia-mobsters-NOT-psychopaths.html
the victim is not a person. he’s just not family. and one’s duty to his family supersedes all other duties.
capiche?
so pesci was in “black-face”, and he knew it, hence his shortest acceptance speech ever.
mugabe is Italian
there are two types of people in this world kitty.
1. those who are italian.
2. those who wish they were italian.
and never forget, all women like italian men.
What are your GRE scores?
swank claims Rolling Stone has no credibility, but it also has readers’ polls.
of best singers according to readers morrison #5, daltrey #6, mercury #2.
#1 was as i suspected plant. too high pitched and whiny. but Stairway is a great song.
#3 bono. #4 jagger.
so i do not have eccentric tastes in pop music.
redding was #8 in the editors’ version.
it’s interesting how much muck is involved in “ensemble” art.
Seinfeld may have been larry david’s genius by itself but seinfeld claimed it had a great cast.
Star Trek was not just roddenberry’s genius. it did have a great cast.
The Who had only one composer, townshend, but daltrey and moon were freakish talents of their own.
how much luck…
there’s a saying the glory that was greece, the grandeur that was rome.
there was a greek empire. alexander died but his (divided) empire lived on for 3 centuries.
today greece is a basket case. a third world country.
let’s hope the same fate doesn’t befall italy.
well, today’s greece doesn’t have enough land to support a large population, in the past given all populations were relatively small, this didn’t matter. in the end, geography is everything
alexander died in 323 bc. one example of how great the influence of greece was more than 3 centuries after his death…the entire new testament is written in greek…even though all of its authors were under roman rule.
So puppy, finally ready to concede races have differing IQs? OR are you going to dig in and keep up the pc charade?
We don’t get the joke pill. I run an HBD blog. Of course i believe in racial IQ differences and have since childhood.
who’s “we”? the royal “we”? the authorial “we”?
pill can always make a living writing jokes for comedians.
Do you still believe in Santa Claus and the monsters under your bed as well?
The odds that all the different races/ethnic groups evolved the exact same intelligence is very low.
I’m more than happy to be proven wrong some day, but i don’t think i will be.
The odds that individual differences in IQ have a meaningful genetic component are very low, the odds that it has an any sort of relevance to group differences are even lower.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797612457952
A lot of research has been published since them and it all came up with much lower estimates. One that you posted predicted about 9% of educational attainment vs. over 50% of height.
you’re confusing gcta with gwas with genomic predictors. 3 separate things.
Genomic predictors at least have the merit of predicting something. GCTA are mere statistics, GWAS are supposed to open a door to understanding causal mechanisms but it’s been a resounding failure as far as IQ-related traits are concerned.
Either way, all of these methods have failed to find and replicate substantial genetic underpinnings for individual differences.
The genetic contribution to a phenotype is frequently measured by heritability, the fraction of trait variation explained by genetic differences. Hundreds of publications have found DNA polymorphisms that are statistically associated with diseases or quantitative traits [genome-wide association studies (GWASs)]. Genome-wide complex trait analysis (GCTA), a recent method of analyzing such data, finds high heritabilities for such phenotypes. We analyze GCTA and show that the heritability estimates it produces are highly sensitive to the structure of the genetic relatedness matrix, to the sampling of phenotypes and subjects, and to the accuracy of phenotype measurements. Plausible modifications of the method aimed at increasing stability yield much smaller heritabilities. It is essential to reevaluate the many published heritability estimates based on GCTA.
http://www.pnas.org/content/113/1/E61
Weird you’d ignore this when you claim to be so willing to be proven wrong.
Plausible modifications of the method aimed at increasing stability yield much smaller heritabilities
The true heritability of IQ might be only 0.3, but since heritability is in theory the squared genotype effect on phenotype, it implies the latter is around 0.55
And your quotes ignore the fact that GCTA also underestimates heritability by only measuring additive effects
I don’t see why IQ differences in average and sd wouldn’t be of the same type as height. We have seen the same increase since 1 century with big variations between populations. There is also a huge heritability but no gene identified except for impairment.
As intelligence is the most well defined psycho-social construct ever – most statistics used by economists come from that field – and thus is real, as stature.
It also makes sense that difference in stature is predominantly a male/female thing while difference in IQ is mainly a population thing. And individual differences are extremely important, less so for population at the extremes (Dutch and Indonesian or Australian Aboriginal and Ashkenazim) .
yeah. gcta is crap. too many assumptions.
We applied novel machine learning methods (“compressed sensing”) to ~500k genomes from UK Biobank, resulting in an accurate predictor for human height which uses information from thousands of SNPs.
so it’s a local population with as many as professor shoe claimed were necessary to identify all SNPs related to IQ via GWAS and it come up with 9%.
what’s his excuse? our machine learning wasn’t good enough for IQ but it was for height?
the only way the HBDers can be proven correct is with genomic prediction which is NOT specified by population AND which predicts as well as twin studies claim it should.
EPIC FAIL!
The excuse is you need a million people to solve IQ + a g loaded test for them to take, not the piss-poor VNR
Where are you getting the 9% figure from?
If 1000 genes out of 30K are implied in intelligence, you get 1M combinations that have to be tested. If you want to see 2 sd differences, you need at least 100 people per combination. So if you had 100 M person tested and applied the actual model to them, you would have a definitive answer. Waiting for that, we’ll need more sophisticated bio-statistics treatment methods. What is sure is that there will be an anwser and I believe quite soon (lest than 20 years).
10,000 genomic variants cause IQ
10,000 genomic variants cause IQ
No, as of now, 0 genomic variant causes IQ.
And your foolish pretended sample size and test quality requirements will never be met, because “IQ” isn’t worth the money spent. So you’ll be able to use this excuse forever.
It’s not a pretend sample size. It’s based on calculations of genomic sparsity.
We’ve known from twin & adoption studies that IQ has a heritability of 0.3+ for decades but skeptics just want better & better evidence
It is too expensive to give a million people an IQ test but they might be able to genotype a large sample that’s already taken a proxy IQ test (i.e. U.S. military, college applicants etc)
It’s not a pretend sample size. It’s based on calculations of genomic sparsity.
By Physicist Professor Shoe. No geneticist has ever come up with a pre-established number of causal genetic variants acting on a trait. Neither can any astronomer tell you how many stars there are in the universe.
We’ve known from twin & adoption studies that IQ has a heritability of 0.5+ for decades but skeptics just want better & better evidence
Who’s the “we” you’re referring to? The “we” I’m part of has known for decades that heritability studies was based on misconceptions on how nature and nurture interplay. And genomic research has so far vindicated our prediction that genomic research would not elucidate causal effects of the genome on behavioral traits.
It is too expensive to give a million people an IQ test but they might be able to genotype a large sample that’s already taken a proxy IQ test (i.e. U.S. military, college applicants etc)
You’ll always say it’s not enough. Man, HBDers have been saying that new advancements would quickly vindicate them for decades. We’re always 5 years away from a definitive answer. And this is actually the definitive answer: “you’ll see in five years”.
Interesting I’ll try to find some info about the 10K variants. So that’s easier than what I thought. A contratct with ETS and 23andme would allow to select 1M scores, get the genetic material and work it out.
A billionnaire could finance that for less than 100M $. When you see Bezos gave 18 billions to “open society” propaganda while such a tiny fraction of that money could do so much.
You would think IQ obsessed bill gates would fund a study but they’re all terrified of being called racist if the data is used to predict racial differences
The measure of intelligence is the best psychological or social measurement there is. I believe there is no serious way to deny it. If people refers to physics law (or caeteris paribus bullshit) it’s for ideological reasons.
Then, who knows what we ll find. It would be nice if racist ideas would be scientifically disproved on their core.
PP,
“The odds that all the different races/ethnic groups evolved the exact same intelligence is very low.”
The odds that IQ tests something “innate” or “genetic” are very low. (I’d say nonexistent due to the structure of the test.)
Premise 1: IQ tests are experience-dependent.
Premise 2: IQ tests are experience-dependent because some classes are more exposed to the knowledge and structure of the test by way of being born into a certain social class.
Premise 3: If IQ tests are experience-dependent because some social classes are more exposed to the knowledge and structure of the test along with whatever else comes with the membership of that social class then these tests test distance from the middle class and its knowledge structure.
Premise 4: How an individual scores on any given test is predicated on his exposure to the middle-class knowledge structure, along with what they are exposed to in their everyday lives that also affect test performance.
Conclusion: Therefore IQ tests test learned skills and knowledge since they are experience-dependent and the information found on the tests are more likely to be found in higher social classes compared to lower classes; thus, IQ test scores are largely “middle-class scores”, one’s knowledge of the middle class.
Genomic predictors don’t replicate between populations. So you’d have to repeat that in every single population. They’d do it for cancer, or BMI maybe. But no one has has that much money to spend on “IQ”.
PP,
“The true heritability of IQ might be only 0.3, but since heritability is in theory the squared genotype effect on phenotype, it implies the latter is around 0.55”
Heritability is garbage, a useless measure. The EEA is false.
“The excuse is you need a million people to solve IQ + a g loaded test for them to take, not the piss-poor VNR”
The number will be hit, and more excuses will be made by HBDers.
“10,000 genomic variants cause IQ”
No, zero genomic variants cause IQ. The 10,000 number is what Hsu pulled out of his ass.
I’ll discuss twin and adoption studies in a separate comment.
Bruno,
“As intelligence is the most well defined psycho-social construct ever – most statistics used by economists come from that field – and thus is real, as stature.”
It’s not construct valid. How is that “well defined”?
Also, the human genome has around 19,000 genes.
Mugabe,
“yeah. gcta is crap. too many assumptions.”
Yup.
Evan Charney says it won’t find the “missing heritability”:
The most damning part: is that, as with GWAS, population stratification is a huge problem. It’s strongly confounded by social class. And I’m sure that everyone here knows about how and why social class is a huge confound.
Plomin et al write: For nearly a century, twin and adoption studies have yielded substantial estimates of heritability for cognitive abilities
Twin studies are useless, as are adoption studies.
Adoption studies
The problem with adoption studies are numerous, not least: restricted range of adoptive families; selective placement; late separation; parent-child attachment disturbance; problems with the tests (on personality, ‘IQ’); the non-representativeness of adoptees compared to non-adoptees; and the reliability of the characteristic in question.
In selective placement, the authorities attempt to place children in homes close to their biological parents. They gage how “intelligent” they believe they are (on the basis of parental SES and the child’s parent’s perceived ‘intelligence’), thusly this is a pretty huge confound for adoption studies.
According to adoption researcher Harry Munsinger, a “possible source of bias in adoption studies is selective placement of adopted children in adopting homes that are similar to their biological parents’ social and educational backgrounds.” He recognized that “‘fitting the home to the child’ has been the standard practice in most adoption agencies, and this selective placement can confound genetic endowment with environmental influence to invalidate the basic logic of an adoptive study (Munsinger, 1975, p. 627). Clearly, agency policies of “fitting the home to the child” are a far cry from random placement of adoptees into a wide range of adoptive homes. (Joseph, 2015: 30-1; The Trouble with Twin Studies)
Twin studies
Personally, my favorite thing to discuss. Twin studies rest on the erroneous assumption that DZ and MZ environments are equal; that they get treated equally the same. This is false, MZ twins get treated more similarly than DZ twins, which twin researchers have conceded decades ago. But in order to save their field they attempt to use circular argumentation, known as Argument A. Argument A states that MZTs (monozygotic twins reared together) are more genetically similar than DZTs (dizygotic twins reared together) and thusly this causes greater behavioral similarity. But this is based on circular reasoning: the researchers already implicitly assumed that genes played a role in their premise and, not surprisingly, in their conclusion genes are the cause for the similarities of the MZTs. So Argument A is used, twin researchers circularly assume that MZTs greater behaviroal similarity is due to genetic similarity, while their argument that genetic factors explain greater behavioral similarity of MZTs is a premise and conclusion of their argument. “X is true because Y is true; Y is true because X is true.”
We have seen that circular reasoning is “empty reasoning in which the conclusion rests on an assumption whose validity is dependent on the conclusion (Reber, 1985, p. 123). … A circular argument consists of “using as evidence a fact which is authenticated by the very conclusion it supports,” which “gives us two unknowns so busy chasing each other’s tails that neither has time to attach itself to reality” (Pirie, 2006, p. 27).
Even if Argument A is accepted, the causes of behavioral similarities between MZ/DZ twins could still come down to environment. Think of any type of condition that is environmentally caused but is due to people liking what causes the condition. There are no “genes for” that condition, but their liking the thing that caused the condition caused an environmental difference.
Argument B also exists. Those that use Argument B also concede that MZs experience more similar environments, but then argue that in order to show that twin studies, and the EEA, are false, critics must show that MZT and DZT environments differ in the aspects that are relevant to the behavior in question (IQ, schizophrenia, etc).
An example of an Argument B environmental factor relevant to a characteristic or disorder is the relationship between exposure to trauma and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Because trauma exposure is (by definition) an environmental factor known to contribute to the development of PTSD, a finding that MZT pairs are more similarly exposed to trauma than DZT pairs means that MZT pairs experience more similar “trait-relevant” environments than DZTs. Many twin researchers using Argument B would conclude that the EEA is violated in this case.
So twin researchers need to rule out and identify “trait-relevant factors” which contribute to the cause of said trait, along with experiencing more similar environments, invalidates genetic interpretations made using Argument B. But Argument A renders Argument B irrelevant because even if critics can show that MZTs experience more similar “trait-relevant environments”, they could still argue that the twin method is valid by stating that (in Argument A fashion) MZTs create and elicit more similar trait-relevant environments.
There is more but I’ll lead it at that. Twin studies inflate heritability estimates; heritability is a useless measure.
https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2018/03/18/behavior-genetics-and-the-fallacy-of-nature-vs-nurture/
By the way here is the GCTA Charney source:
https://www.independentsciencenews.org/health/still-chasing-ghosts-a-new-genetic-methodology-will-not-find-the-missing-heritability/
Source for the quotations:
Afrosapiens, why do you believe there are no genetic racial differences in intelligence, but also seem to believe Blacks are physically and sexually superior to other races? Don’t you think you’re being hypocritical here, unless you’re trolling?
Also I agree with RR that IQ tests are bad generally, but completely disagree that differences in intelligence don’t exist, though I believe they’re small (Blacks 95, MENA 102, Whites 105, Asians 108, Jews, Brahmin etc 115)
So while the differences between any single race may be small, the difference between a Jew and a Black is massive at 20 points.
There seems to be less genes every year 😉
This: “the differences between any single race may be small, the difference between a Jew and a Black is massive at 20 points” does not follow from this: “Also I agree with RR that IQ tests are bad generally”
Afrosapiens, why do you believe there are no genetic racial differences in intelligence, but also seem to believe Blacks are physically and sexually superior to other races? Don’t you think you’re being hypocritical here, unless you’re trolling?
The first thing is that there is no physiology of intelligence to make racial comparisons. The second thing is that genomic research hasn’t been to link a gene to a physiologic process that would explain the differences between individuals and groups. So for the moment, there is no biology of intelligence whatsoever.
Sports performance is completely different, various abilities are explainable in terms of physiology and these explain in part why some populations dominate certain sports, but even then, socio-cultural and socio-economic factors still matter. Jamaica is the world’s top sprint nation with just two million West Africans whereas the whole West African region with close to half a billion people has never won a medal. Also, these differences are only relevant for pro athletes, it’s not like all black men were born Usain Bolt. Usain Bolt himself wasn’t born Usain Bolt, he’s trained for years with the top coaches and optimal medical and nutritional monitoring. Just pick a random black and a random white in the street and make them run a sprint, the chances that the black wins are just negligibly higher.
As for sexual superiority, I said nothing of this kind. It’s just the fact that women find darker men more attractive and that black men have a reputation for sexual power that makes being black advantageous in the sex market, all else equal of course. You won’t see millionaire chicks dating African refugees just to fulfill their fantasies, even though sex tourism to West Africa and the Caribbean is a thing. Now I’m not saying all blacks are formidable in bed and all whites suck, nor even that blacks are on average better in bed, sex isn’t just about anatomical endowments if such endowments do exist. But it’s an assumption that many women make, doesn’t mean it’s their number one dating priority.
Also I agree with RR that IQ tests are bad generally, but completely disagree that differences in intelligence don’t exist, though I believe they’re small (Blacks 95, MENA 102, Whites 105, Asians 108, Jews, Brahmin etc 115)
So while the differences between any single race may be small, the difference between a Jew and a Black is massive at 20 points.
That’s not how it’d work. If the genetics of intelligence had to follow the overall pattern of human genetic variation, The African average would be the highest and the scores would decrease as a function of genetic load due to distance from Africa and inbreeding depression. Secondly, as a consequence of the African genetic diversity, both the lowest and the highest ethnic groups would be black Africans. So you’d have something like some intellectual Pygmies scoring 90 and and some intellectual Dinkas scoring at 110. The rest of the world would be clustered within a narrow range below the African average.
Here is the article; adoption studies and twin studies are highly flawed. The CTM is no more able than family studies to disentangle environmental factors. Twin studies measure environmental, not genetic, similarity of twins.
https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2018/05/28/twin-studies-adoption-studies-and-fallacious-reasoning/
Perhaps one of the biggest problems with twin studies is the uterine environment. See this on ESS (epigenetic supersimilarity):
Monozygotic twins have long been studied to estimate heritability and explore epigenetic influences on phenotypic variation. The phenotypic and epigenetic similarities of monozygotic twins have been assumed to be largely due to their genetic identity.
[…]
These results establish a link between early embryonic epigenetic development and adult disease. More broadly, epigenetic supersimilarity is a previously unrecognized phenomenon that may contribute to the phenotypic similarity of monozygotic twins.
[…]
To the extent that epigenetic variation at ESS loci influences human phenotype, as our data indicate, the existence of ESS establishes a link between early embryonic epigenetic development and adult disease and may call into question heritability estimates based on twin studies.
https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-017-1374-0#Sec9
Ouch…
So Afro in your worldview, what’s wrong with Africa? Is it the evil whitey holding them down? Why is North Africa doing better than SSA currently despite being on the same continent?
“This: “the differences between any single race may be small, the difference between a Jew and a Black is massive at 20 points” does not follow from this: “Also I agree with RR that IQ tests are bad generally””
Because I agree with you that IQ tests are bad, but disagree with your assertion that they are completely useless. They are definitely measuring something related to intelligence, like it or not.
“They are definitely measuring something related to intelligence, like it or not.”
Measures knowledge and distance from the middle class, not “intelligence”.
“Measures knowledge and distance from the middle class, not “intelligence”.”
Can you show this for all subtets on the wais?
Processing speed index has nothing to do with the middle class and knowledge.
You haven’t even taken the test, you have no idea whats on it.
So Afro in your worldview, what’s wrong with Africa? Is it the evil whitey holding them down? Why is North Africa doing better than SSA currently despite being on the same continent?
Nothing’s “wrong” with Africa. And the fact that North Africa is a bit richer while being on the same continent is irrelevant. It’s not the same climate, not the same natural environment, not the same history.
North Africa has a Mediterranean climate, the burden of endemic pathogens is low, the soils are fertile.
North Africa also started modernizing much earlier, the French had been building a first world country in Algeria since 1848, the colonial powers developed much more industry, infrastructure and social services in Egypt, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia than anywhere in Subsaharan Africa except Southern Africa, which is on par or even more developed than Northern Africa. Add proximity to Europe which helped develop the tourism sector and exports manufacturing and agriculture in Egypt, Morocco and Tunisia, the enormous oil reserves of Libya and Algeria as well as the Suez Canal Royalties in Egypt and it makes sense than these countries are more developed than most other African countries, but also other Arab countries like Yemen, Sudan and Mauritania.
On the other hand, Subsaharan Countries are mostly rural, have young and fast growing populations, poor infrastructure, very little industry and very few social services inherited from colonization. They’re recent nations made of dozens to thousands of different ethnic groups which causes a lot of ethnic rivalry and political instability on which neo-colonial powers easily pray. That said, many Subsaharan Countries are on the level of Morocco and Egypt, the main nations like Nigeria and Ghana are on the level of India and Pakistan, and the black countries of the Caribbean with the exception of Haiti are all substantially richer than any North African country.
It’s very religious to pull the gene card when basic economics and knowledge of history and geopolitics make things crystal clear.
As a matter of fact, more Africans live in darker shades countries south of the Sahara than north of the Sahara, although all north Africans live in darker shades countries while approximately half Subsaharans do. The Subsaharan/North African difference isn’t large.
I somewhat agree with all the points you’ve made here except the retarded genetic load garbage, it’s you who’s been spewing strange nonsense about Black superiority then only now start talking reasonably. Some of your arguments are reasonable. I disagree that it was primarily colonial powers that developed North Africa however though I do agree that Mediterranean climate has a lot to do with it, given there are almost no diseases or parasites in Algeria compared to SSA.
Also religion keeps NA in line, while SSA is pagan and they fuck like rabbits instead of being controlled by religion, spreading AIDS and diseases like wildfire.
Also I only believe in HBD because of physical factors. Pygmies are likely to be stupid because they’re short with small heads, Whites are likely to be smart because they’re tall with big heads. MENA are very similar to Whites but smaller. Blacks are shorter on average and have smaller heads but a tall Black with a big head can be just as smart as a White. Asians just have huge heads for their short stature.
“Measures knowledge and distance from the middle class, not “intelligence”.”
How are Ravens questions measuring distance from middle class? Are you suggesting it’s because I’m educated? Then I’d say yes, it measures education (or is hugely influenced by education) but what does it have to do with class?
I somewhat agree with all the points you’ve made here except the retarded genetic load garbage, it’s you who’s been spewing strange nonsense about Black superiority then only now start talking reasonably.
Genetic load is very real and a basic concept of population genetics. If intelligence is genetic, it is impossible that genetic load doesn’t affect it.
I disagree that it was primarily colonial powers that developed North Africa
Algeria was a part of France, not even a colony. It had French settlers and the infrastructure, public services, industry and living standards were on par with the provinces of Southern France till the 1960s. It’s undeniable that it gave Algeria a significant head start, like South Africa. Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia and Libya enjoyed the same advantage to a lesser extant, but Algeria used to be part of the first world.
Also religion keeps NA in line, while SSA is pagan and they fuck like rabbits instead of being controlled by religion, spreading AIDS and diseases like wildfire.
Whatever.
HIV just grew in Africa because it originates there and had already spread largely before it was even identified and been the focus of health education.
Also I only believe in HBD because of physical factors.
A baby is born with a brain 90% its adult size. Mental abilities aren’t caused by the size of the brain but by its wiring. And the wiring depends on experiences and stimuli.
i’m such a fool. i bought a new dishwasher today. could’ve bought another one for almost 1/4 as much. should’ve shooped online first. but if it lasts for 20 years (what arko claims) it was worth it. a swedish brand, arko. should’ve just bought 3.5 amanas.
in sumo news…
the georgian came in second to another fucking mongolian, kakuryu.
so he’ll make it to ozeki. if he wins the july basho he’ll make it to yokozuna.
…asko…
refrigerator perry vs hakuho?
6’2″ 335lbs vs 6’4″ 342lbs.
as i’ve said, sumo is a sport where short legs are an advantage.
offensive linemen are going to be much stronger due to weight lifting more seriously i expect.
so why not more offensive linemen in sumo?
sumo doesn’t pay that much.
but hakuho would have better balance and far better flexibility.
“but if it lasts for 20 years (what arko claims) it was worth it. a swedish brand, arko.”
AHAHAHAH, poor Mugabe, clutching his heart and coping
i was at a party on the top floor of the tallest building in oklahoma, and this midget kept grinding herself on my kneecap.
i looked down and saw it was a terrorist.
“go floss, brush, and wash with listerine…and take a shower.”
she came back still smelling like a camel. there’s no getting rid of that smell.
i said, “too late. i shot my load to black gay porn.”
she said, “why are all the sexiest men into black dudes?”
Hahaha, that’s like something a 14-year old would come up with😂