[PLEASE PLACE ALL OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS HERE. THEY WILL NOT BE POSTED IN THIS THREAD]
In the below video Noam Chomsky talks again about when language likely emerged. He notes that anatomically modern humans (AMH) are about 200,000 years old and claims there’s no evidence of symbolic behavior predating AMH.
He then claims that the San split-off from other AMH about 150 kya, and since they have language, Chomsky seems to be hinting that language emerged sometime between 200 kya and 150 kya. Perhaps 175 kya is a good guess.
There are a few potential challenges to Chomsky’s argument:
- Some scientists are now suggesting AMH might be 325,000 years old, not 200,000 years old.
- According to Greg Cochran, the split between Bantu and African pygmies was 300 kya, and since both these groups have language, this suggests language must be at least 300,000 years old (unless gene flow since the split explains why both groups have it). Although Peter Frost disagrees with Cochran.
- An engraving likely made by Neanderthals found in a cave in Gibraltar (and more recently, representational cave drawings of animals) implies AMH may not have been the only species capable of symbolic behavior. If Neanderthals also had this ability it suggests they may have inherited it from the common ancestor they share with us, implying symbolic behavior (and thus language) may be at least 700,000 years old.
Pumpkin Person 
language is halfway between an executive function and a perception. Of course, there is structure but so too is your hands and eyes using tools. It is your mouth and ears and the rest of executive functioning and perceptions that order this structure Chomsky says is not linear when spoken but instead connects thoughts together. In the brain executive function is the prioritization of events. Your muscle movements are planned and your language is planned. This should not be a big mystery. We understand how planning working in the brain right now. Language would just be another planning mechanical system that follows the rules of cybernetic systems like I keep saying. Language has a system of inhibition and excitation and a memory to learn. It is just highly integrated into the entire brain. Cybernetic prioritization as executive functioning would not be hard to map. You simply need to know all the dependencies such as the 180 grey matter regions and the white matter fiber tracks. that will tell you the control mechanisms.
Most important of all is the fact that the control mechanisms beginning as babies. my sister has a baby and currently, we are teaching her how to babble. Here control mechanisms are still adapting. Permanent change only happens when signals tell to body it is ready.
The control mechanisms are right there in the white mater grey matter neuroscience. Nome Chomsky may be too old to understand how linguistics on the inside as he calls it follows mathematical rules as the structure and the neural oscillatory activity has been thoroughly researched. They cannot produce brain models because of ethics of teaching the brain model language. They perfectly well know the structured language is produced from.
All intelligent processes/levels are controll mechanisms.
Think of everything around you and what you can fit in your thought at this moment.
How much is in there and what can you do with it?
Why are all your comments data dumps?
information IQ is 150
logic IQ is 130
Its strange you keep saying we bring up Chomsky for his political theories. As far as I know he only has one – the media is a brainwashing tool. He is not a political philosopher worth mentioning when you compare him to Rawls, Mill or even Nozick. I bring him up much more because hes a good example of whats allowed to be a public intellectual (i.e. a sophist). Esp viz Israel and his purposely lying comment that America controls Israel.
As far as I know he only has one – the media is a brainwashing tool.
then you know very little. sad!
And yet his Wechsler IQ would be higher than yours. Both jimmy & pincher Martin knew you’re a cognitive lightweight
As i recall jimmy said i won every single argument we’ve ever had
Shows the predictive power of the WISC even decades later
the wechsler is NOT an IQ test.
the wechsler is NOT an IQ test.
Whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night.
I took the WISC, I remember you said it measure different things than the WAIS.
(on a neurological basis that is)
Ok, lets talk about Nozick then. I’ve read parts of his Anarchy capitalism book. Can’t remember the title. I remember thinking this would work if [refacted by pp, march 9, 2018]
language NEVER “emerged” fucktard.
it evolved!
the invention of the wheel…the first wheel was likely just a log.
not a ferrari.
get it?
the sumerians were the first to write. by that time human language was a ferrari.
the language of homo erectus was a log.
but they’re both wheels.
get it?
Mug of Pee, anything you get, everyone else here got in childhood.
But you’ve missed the whole point of chomsky’s theory which is that language was a sudden, not gradual development
Yes the theory’s probably wrong, but it is what it is
If chomsky met mug of pee he would say:
Son, dumb, drunk & short-legged is no way to go through life
the gap between animal vocal communication and human is a continuum.
https://www.dga.org/Craft/DGAQ/All-Articles/0703-Fall-2007/~/media/Images/DGAQ%20Article%20Images/0703%20Fall%202007/shotRemember_Fitzcarraldo13%20jpg
tom wolfe gets what chomsky is too senile, dishonest, or autistic to get. and wolfe is only 2 years younger than chomsky. The Kingdom of Speech was published in august of 2016.
language is techne.
techne evolves by tinkering in the same way living things evolve by mutations.
Chomsky’s not autistic or senile, he’s just wrong, but his reasoning is way beyond you
The size/complexity of society forced humans to invent writing systems [just like a ”car of thinking”] because you can’t communicate [specially rules] orally one each other at large distances or it’s more inefficient.
Those who have better capacity to memorize and learn this written symbols was more selected than those who can’t. Mister Obvious attack again, whatchatcha…
Genetic-culture feedback or gene-culture co-evolution.
Because writing and numerical systems appeared in different and mutually distant places [pre-colombian civilization, middle eastern, far east…] seems human evolution has been quite convergent OR also, intelligence evolution itself, human or not, terrestrian or not, tend to be quite convergent, because it’s basically the correct and progressively precise perception of lived reality, without or with less of the primary instincts forcing living beings to think exclusively in their IMMEDIATE survive instead also to analyse firstly their reality.
Seems [or absolutely not] when humans started to explore new lands and becoming more distant one each other in this travels they must needed invent something that can be talked and understood, exactly like the bird songs.
Another reason is that human cultural inheritance become so big to oral retention and intergenerational transmission that something more ”fixed” become necessary to retain this, specially because only one individual would not be more capable to retain most of basic culture//knowledge of their expansive ”tribe”.
imaginative capacity seems a obvious key to understand human evolution/language.
Also, The ladder-like painting is the part that has been dated so far (and attributed to neanderthals), not the animals. I have read it suggested that the animals were added later possibly by modern humans who lived at the site at a later time)—but that is still uncertain.
Modern humans in Africa were doing some similar things as far as art (and some things neanderthals didn’t do; certain types of tools—e.g. projectiles, harpoons, microliths—and weapons, early forms of trade, etc.) both (in some cases) earlier than the neanderthals in Spain and contemporarily (see my comments below in comment section of the Razib Khan blog post at link below). But it does appear that neanderthals likely had some form of symbolic thought, and almost surely had language, which likely does go further back to our (neanderthals’ and sapiens’) common ancestor, African heidelbergensis—which we know were anatomically capable of language in our sense. I will be interested to see what discoveries of that species and its behavior are found in coming years, and perhaps our common ancestor—heidelbergensis—was a bit more advanced than thought.
I meant to say:
in response to:
“An engraving likely made by Neanderthals found in a cave in Gibraltar (and more recently, representational cave drawings of animals)…”
The ladder-like part of the painting is the part that has been dated so far (and attributed to neanderthals), not the animals…(which have yet to be dated, and could come from later, possibly modern human, inhabitants—as sometimes modern humans would inhabit caves that had once been used by neanderthals). But on the other hand, that could turn out not to be the case, and dating should help to determine the answer.
I was under the impression that Neanderthals did the animals too. If they didn’t do the animals it becomes much less impressive. A bit of good news for Chomsky’s theory.
Also, here is the link to the Razib Khan blog post I referred to (in my first comment above) which has my comments re: sapiens symbolic behavior—which I referred to—in its comment’s section (but which stupidly forgot to link in the afore mentioned above comment)
https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/02/22/neanderthals-were-human-say-it-loud-and-proud/
PP:
“I was under the impression that Neanderthals did the animals too.”
Yes, the video gives that impression, but I have found a few articles that state that the ladder-like part is the only part yet dated (and suggest the animals may be a later addition by sapiens groups). But they don’t yet know for sure.
still waiting.
one possible answer to the first retarded sequence is [wrong answer redacted by pp, march 10, 2018]
now what is the solution to this peepee?
1 1 1 1 2 2 2 4 1 3 3 3 9 1 ?
Your answer to my sequence is wrong but the answer to yours is 10
Oh Easy Peasy!
My IQ is FIFTY POINTS above your level!
any HBDer should know that chomsky is autistic or senile or bullshitting.
VIQ is heritable and varies continuously. the very lowest VIQ humans are no smarter than chimps at language.
imagine that the first anatomically modern humans were verbal idiots, like peepee. then the utility of language selected for higher and higher verbal ability, language evolved. and the same thing would happen in any large brained species with a vocal apparatus similar to that of humans. homo erection spoke, just really badly.
the idea that a single mutation produced the language faculty is 100% AUTISTIC.
500 to 5,000 people, not 5 people Chomsky says