Commenter Mugabe (aka chocolate babies?) has claimed to have scored a perfect 800 on all three sections of the old GRE. Some commenters, such as “Deal with it!” believe him, others are deeply skeptical.

In one study, the quantitative GRE correlated 0.71 with WAIS-R full-scale IQ, though the sample was small and restricted.

So the question becomes, if the GRE is considered equivalent to an IQ test, what IQ did a perfect 2400 GRE equate to?

For decades people have been given GRE subscale scores (verbal, math, analytical) and the percentiles that go with them, but had no idea how to interpret their COMBINED GRE scores. In order to interpret any standardized test score, the first thing you want to know is the Z score, and in order to know the Z score, you must know the mean and the Standard Deviation (SD). According to one source, the means and SDs (in parentheses) for 1.1 million people taking the GRE from 1994 to 1997 were 474 (114) for the verbal, 558 (139) for the Quantitative, and 547 (130) for the analytical.

However knowing your Z score tells you little, if you don’t know anything about the population from which your Z score was derived. A low Z score from brilliant population could be more impressive than a high Z score from a low IQ population. Thus instead of using the data on 1.1 million GRE takers of unknown intelligence, I am going to use GRE data from a smaller sample of GRE takers with known SAT scores:

The above table was poorly formatted, but what it shows is that in a sample of people who took both the GRE and the SAT (circa 1990), the mean GRE verbal was 510.1 (SD = 107.7), GRE Quantitative was 573.4 (SD = 125.6) and the GRE analytical was 579.7 (SD = 117.6). Moreover, in this sample, the correlation between V & Q scores was 0.56, V & A scores 0.65, and Q & A scores 0.73.

Armed with these means, SDs, and correlations, we can estimate the mean and SD of the COMBINED GRE score (V + Q + A)

According to commenter Mugabe:

var(X+Y+Z) = var(X) + var(Y) + var(Z)+2*(sigma(X)sigma(Y)rho(X,Y) + sigma(X)sigma(Z)rho(X,Z) + sigma(Y)sigma(Z)rho(Y,Z))

Mugabe advises us not to use this formula because the math subscale has a low ceiling, but let’s be rebellious and use it anyway, substituting V, Q, and A for generic X, Y, and Z(note variance equals squared standard deviation):

var(V+Q+A) = var(V) + var(Q) + var(A)+2*(sigma(V)sigma(Q)rho(V,Q) + sigma(V)sigma(A)rho(V,A) + sigma(Q)sigma(A)rho(Q,A))

var(V+Q+A) = 11,599.29 + 15,775.36 + 13,829.76 + 2*(107.7)(125.6)(0.56) + (107.7)(117.6)(0.65) + (125.6)(117.6)(0.73)

var(V+Q+A) = 41,204.41 + 15,150.37 + 8,232.59 + 10,782.51

var(V+Q+A) = 75,369.88

Taking the square root of the variance, tells us that the SD of the combined composite (in our sample) should be 274.53, and of course the mean of the composite is simply a matter summing the sample’s mean on each of the three sub-scales (1,663.2).

Thus Mugabe claims to have scored 2.68 SD above our sample GRE takers.

But in order to assign that an IQ, we need to know how talented the sample was. Their pre-1995 verbal SATs have a mean of 518 and an SD of 104.7 (which on the IQ scale equates to a mean of 120 (SD 14.14)(U.S. norms)). If we assume they were as self-selected for combined GRE talent as they were SAT verbal talent, then being 2.68 SD above them on the combined GRE equates to an IQ of:

2.68(14.14) + 120 = 158 (U.S. norms) or 157 (U.S. white norms)

However because of ceiling bumping, this is a very conservative estimate, but the g loading of the GRE, especially at high levels, has not been well researched, and some researchers question the validity of g as a measure of intelligence (but that’s a whole other post).

chocolate babies?

said:how many sit the gre who haven’t also sat the sat? foreigners? those who sat the act in place of the sat?

using the figures peepee gives (assuming a trivariate normal distribution) gives the probability of scoring 2400 in the population concerned at 5 to 16 per 10,000. these are the high and low of the simulations i’ve done. the integration of the trivariate normal distribution for the exact answer is too much effort.

these correspond to 3.29 to 2.95 SDs.

anonymous, the only

said:I condemn and disavow mugabe and urge pumpkin to do the same

chocolate babies?

said:The Philosopher

said:Oh ho! I REPUDIATE AND DENOUNCE VEHEMENTLY Mugabe and all of his tenets:

Namely:

1. Pumpkin is a lesbian autistic transgendered gypsy living on bread thrown by old people at the ducks in the park and the insinuation that she hunkers down and flaps her arms and quacks pretending to be a duck in order to steal from the defenceless aforesaid refugee ducks.

2. His racist and totally racist beliefs and other racist views.

3. Racism

4. His unwillingness to accept Pumpkin, Colonel Sanders and The Hamburglar beat him in the SAT.

5. His denunciation of our Jewish religion – Zion, which we all love, accept and if you don’t I will kill you and send your daughter to Hollywood.

6. His heretical views on economic theory

7. His refusal to accept tax cuts for the rich don’t work.

8. Refusal to disavow the KKK

9. Refusal to disavow Vladimir Lenin’s terrorist movement.

10. Refusal to disavow the Black Hand

11. Refusal to disavow Hydra terrorist organisation

12. Refusal to disavow Oprah

13. Endorsement of a 3 state solution whereby Palestine is partitioned among Israelis, Arabs and Congolese.

15. Refusal to accept the EU should invite Iran to join.

16. Hatred of blacks.

17. Hated of lesbians

18. General miscellaneous Hatred.

Also I think we need to ask Pumpkin whether she disavows Randall McOprah-caust deniers.

chocolate babies?

said:7. His refusal to accept tax cuts for the rich don’t work.of course they don’t, but…

the US top marginal rate on corporations and individuals is #1 and #5 in the world. its capital gains and payroll taxes are in the middle. so why does the US have the lowest tax revenues to gdp in the developed world? it has no VAT, and there are lots of ways corporations can avoid taxes. according to bill gross the average rate for s&p 500 companies is 24%…far from the top rate, and the individuals who pay 50% live in nyc or california. no one else pays that much. this shows that property taxes are fairly high in the US too. http://cdn2.spectator.co.uk/files/2012/07/242.png

so if trump lowered rates but got rid of loopholes and added a VAT it might not be that bad. revenues might go up a lot.

tax revenues to GDP by country…as you can see, despite the foregoing, americans are the opposite of overtaxed. so trump was full of it when he said americans are the most taxed people in the world.

The Philosopher

said:Interesting.

chocolate babies?

said:even more interesting that the letter is in english.

The Philosopher

said:Yeah good spot. Wonder why.

alcoholicwisdom

said:and spilled coffee is missing in order for it to be realistic enough

alcoholicwisdom

said:So fake!! :))

The Philosopher

said:I remember reading Einstein was a plagiarist, but his track record is simply too long and others would have sniffed him out.

Wigner said he met both Einstein and Von Neumann and essentially Von Neumann will get you the right answers the quickest and knows more or less everything.

But Einstein came up with stuff that was ‘radical’ and completely out of the sandbox.

I would relate that Einstein was an accomplished violinist. Von Neumann doesn’t seem to have a musical aptitude.

The creativity is probably from that part of the brain.

I was very lucky to have picked up a musical instrument younger.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/6447588/Playing-a-musical-instrument-makes-you-brainier.html

Godel, another famous math guy, was a grade A schizo. Mr Logic figured out our system of logic is only symmetrical in itself. A system cannot be logical without being verified by another system from without.

But…

Who would verify Sys 2? A Union B. All intents and purposes A and B are still a System. Does another system be needed to verify?

Infinite regress.

Logic may not be True, but it is truish and provides utility.

Like free will.

Internal validity /= External validity.

The Philosopher

said:I will never get tired of this.

The Philosopher

said:Anyways, i had another vision of Putin yesterday in the floorboard as I was brushing turpentine onto it. While I tell my reverend that Putin is a voice of good and not evil, the reverend is upset due to my worshipping a false idol. My reasoning is as follows:

1 Because I’m an alt righter I worship putin,

2.Putin is demonstrably not false, like ISIS or Martin Luther King.

3.He has never appeared on Pop Idol

Anyways Putin asked me to come to Moscow next year for a persona audience. I said maybe if I don’t feel hungry.

The Philosopher

said:Hunger effects 3/10 young sub saharan africans.

I always asked myself – there are so many africans around.

Why don’t they just eat each other?

The Philosopher

said:Yesterday Hammond handed out his ham sandwich Autumn Statement.

It said:

I want to make the country better. Here are numbers. And a ham sandwich.

It was a baloney sandwich.

He lied.

chocolate babies?

said:and you’re not british?

so you’re s asian?

south african?

no european would be such a philosemite.

The Philosopher

said:If you think I’m a philosemite, wait till you see the upper class Brits or Americans. Practically worship Jews.

The vast majority of people are completely unaware of the significance of Jews. Being <1% they're a tiny minority and many people never meet big swinging dicks or go to charity balls.

I think I'm fairly moderate on the issue. Which I think a fair reading, would lead one to conclude.

Deal with it!

said:You’re a crazy schizo. You and Mugabe should meet. You’ll be bffs.

chocolate babies?

said:all schizos are crazy jeronimo.

If we assume they were as self-selected for combined GRE talent as they were SAT verbal talent, then being 2.68 SD above them on the combined GRE equates to an IQ of…i doubt the distribution in wechsler scores of SAT takers is normally distributed. it should be skewed to the right.

But in order to assign that an IQ, we need to know how talented the sample was. Their pre-1995 verbal SATs have a mean of 518 and an SD of 104.7 (which on the IQ scale equates to a mean of 120 (SD 14.14)(U.S. norms)).where’d ya get that? sounds too high.

pumpkinperson

said:i doubt the distribution in wechsler scores of SAT takers is normally distributed. it should be skewed to the right.My point was that 2400 gives a GRE Z score of 2.68 with respect to the GRE takers sampled in a GRE-SAT study (a different study from the Wechsler study). The question is what Z score does 2400 equate to in the general U.S. young adult population. In order to answer the latter question, I assumed the GRE takers had the same general population Z distribution on the GRE as they had on the verbal SAT. Now whether those Z scores are normally distributed, I know not.

where’d ya get that? sounds too high.A national norm study done circa 1974 found the verbal SAT had a mean of 368, SD 111:

Another national norm study done circa 1987 found similar results. Mean 376, SD 102.

The Philosopher

said:Pumpkin still won’t disavow Randall McOprah deniers. Pumpkin made a 1400 word blog post last year disavowing Holocaust deniers and UFO deniers, and can’t even spent 20 words denouncing racists.

chocolate babies?

said:but let’s be rebellious and use it anyway…but then you come up with the absurd result that the probability of 2400 is GREATER than the probability of 800 on the V section.

2.68 SDs for 2400 vs 2.69 SDs for 800 V. the reason is that as far as the formula is concerned it’s possible to score…for example…900 Q, 650 V, and 850 A.

that’s why you have to integrate the trivariate normal distribution over the volume defined by (V >= 800, Q >= 800, A >= 800). but rather than integrate one may simply generate a large random sample (of 10,000 points for example) from the distribution and count how many points are drawn from the given volume. it’s easy to set up in excel, but i also used an online matrix calculator to find the unit eigenvectors and eigenvalues.

chocolate babies?

said:because the verbal section has the highest ceiling it may be more important than it is on the wechsler. that is, if one were 99th percentile VIQ and slightly less than that on PIQ it might be more likely he’d score 2400 than if he had the opposite profile.

pumpkinperson

said:but then you come up with the absurd result that the probability of 2400 is GREATER than the probability of 800 on the V section.Exactly. The composite formula assumes all subscales have the same ceiling or no ceiling, and neither is the case.

chocolate babies?

said:the eigen stuff may be unnecessary. i was just following the formula.

it’s easy to generate samples from a bivariate normal distribution without matrices, but i couldn’t figure out how it would be done for a trivariate distribution.

the question is what is the distribution of X given Y, Z, rho(X,Y), and rho(X,Z). it should be easy, but i don’t know the answer.

pumpkinperson

said:the question is what is the distribution of X given Y, Z, rho(X,Y), and rho(X,Z). it should be easy, but i don’t know the answer.I do.

I’ll discuss it in my next post.

illuminaticatblog

said:some researchers question the validity of g as a measure of intelligence

generality is creativity

creativity is intuition

http://artificial-intuition.com/

illuminaticatblog

said:quote

The Philosopher

said:Intuition is very heavily verbal I find. They always say women are more intuitive. And of course, women lean verbal. Man lean quant and spatial especially.

RaceRealist

said:“However because of ceiling bumping, this is a very conservative estimate, but the g loading of the GRE, especially at high levels, has not been well researched, and some researchers question the validity of g as a measure of intelligence (but that’s a whole other post).”

https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2016/05/18/more-g-denialism-and-more-gould-refuting/

The Philosopher

said:What’s the room’s stance on heritability of sexuality?

My logic:

1. Homsexuality is not a an evolutionary successful strategy of mating or socialisation.

2. Homosexuality appears in history at least since classical times of record.

3. Seems to be more prevalent in upper classes. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2784665/Middle-class-professionals-60-cent-likely-openly-gay-working-class-men-women.html

4. Affects all races of man. Suprisingly non-whites more than whites http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/19/black-gays-lgbt-community_n_1989859.html

5. People can be more homosexual in younger years than later and vice versa.

My conclusion

Homosexuality is a genetic predisposition than is triggered in a more feminine environment (Fact 3). Homosexuals usually flee to the city….or Western countries….to escape persecution (Fact 4).

Ergo, as the more 3rd wave feminisation sweeps culture the more homosexual experimentation (Fact 5) and more long term alignment of taking that lifestyle will happen.

Lack of warfare = more homosexuals.

Nature says:

‘I gave unto you woman, fruit and progeny, to brave war. Thoust rejected me and thus, I will reject you from the gene pool’.

Nature wants war to do the gene algo sort quicker for evolutionary purposes.

No war, harder to do sorting. So backup sort startegy comes into play.

Watch now: 50 years from now after $200m of experiments and replications, controversy from feminists and PC priests etc, the autists will figure it out as per above.

That’s the beauty of philosophy. I get the right answer, and I don’t need to waste time.

alcoholicwisdom

said:if male homosexuality is transferred by females/mother, it does not make it evolutionarily unfit.

The Philosopher

said:It gets you beaten up, ostracised, and even executed in the vast majority of world cultures. Where I grew up, being called a faggot is not a term of endearment. It was the worst insult you could hurl.

It also has the added disadvantage of not allowing you to reproduce your genes.

Finally, the more ancillary disadvantage is that hanging around feminine men and being feminine is not a survival disposition.

The Philosopher

said:What’s the room’s stance on ontology and ‘god’.

Fact 1: Strauss says the latest physics research suggests the universe forces itself into being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Universe_from_Nothing

Fact 1b: More importantly for our purposes, if the universe always has to be….and we know the universe is infinitely EXPANDING, ^prob of life infinite. Ergo life must happen. Ergo perhaps life was always meant to happen.

Fact 2: Quantum Mechanics = Reality is a Monte Carlo Simulation

Fact 3: Free will for all intents and purposes exists, but not for everyone in equal amounts.

Fact 4: Life imitates art – The same principles that go into game design go into universe design (see The Sims creator interview) – e.g. symmetry, risk/reward and dopamine pathway.

Fact 5: Langan’s material suggests a joint consciousness. Deep meditation suggest that too.

Fact 6: Evolution = refining efficiency law of thermodynamics + entropy

Fact 7: Evolution is not a raison d’etre. Just a process for preserving life.

Its trying to express itself and is groping around in the dark?

The Philosopher

said:If most politicians have the same neuro profile as used car salesmen….

wouldn’t that mean the best used car salesmen would do well in politics?

Used car salesmen are prole proto-politicians that didn’t have daddy’s connects or money to get a degree.

Sad.

The Philosopher

said:As a corollary, party scouts looking for talent can’t choose used car salesmen…not because they wouldn’t be able to do the job, but because the reputation of that profession would kill chances of electability.

What a strange irony!

Now, relate…would you buy a used car off a salesman who was a politician?

Tenn

said:You will find this fascinating. https://my.vanderbilt.edu/smpy/files/2013/02/DoingPsychScience2006.pdf

Johnnyboy

said:I wish I could take an IQ test. The closest I got to getting a picture of my intelligence was with a practice SAT I took (I took the actual SAT, but it’s stunted by practice) when I was 15. I got 1170-1200, which is 115-120, a good score.

I tried to take an IQ test recently, those ones on YouTube. For some damn reason I took a WISC IV test, forgot how I did stuff, then I took a WAIS test- I only got through block design. The video wasn’t clear, I got most of them, but I wanted a clear video. I got one, lo and behold one of the shapes itself was rotated, and I don’t know how I’d react (that being said, I’m quite decent at rotating 2D images in my head)! I stopped trying to get access to an IQ test ever since. Lol.

Andrew Hayles

said:I think there is an error in your compound standard deviation calculation. The 2 should be multiplied by each of the covariance terms. It looks like you only multiplied by the first covariance term.

var(V+Q+A) = 11,599.29 + 15,775.36 + 13,829.76 + 2*(107.7)(125.6)(0.56) + (107.7)(117.6)(0.65) + (125.6)(117.6)(0.73)

This should be

var(V+Q+A) = 11,599.29 + 15,775.36 + 13,829.76 + 2*(107.7)(125.6)(0.56) + 2 * (107.7)(117.6)(0.65) + 2 * (125.6)(117.6)(0.73)