I was listening to a podcast where this poker champion smugly noted that computers can beat the best chess players but they can’t beat the best poker players. The subtext seemed to be that chess champions are just robots, while poker requires real intelligence.
But in fact computers can beat poker players one on one, but because poker is usually played with more people does the number of possibilities become too much for a computer to process. But chess can also be played with more than two people. How well would a computer do then?
I suspect that six person chess would be a much better test of intelligence than regular chess, not least because it’s been much less studied, so players would be forced to adapt, instead of relying on over-learned algorithms invented by others. It would also require social intelligence, in that you’d have to infer who might be an ally.
It is interesting to ask what is it about the human mind that it allows it to dominate even the fastest computers and when did this ability evolve? Perhaps there are some problems so complex that we no amount of processing power is enough, so we evolved the capacity for certain shortcuts, and perhaps one of those shortcuts is analogical thinking: This reminds me of that.
It’s interesting that representational art does not appear in the archeological record until 40,000 years ago and this is often thought to be the start of human culture. What makes art significant is it’s the first time we get evidence of humans thinking analogically. A stick man may have little resemblance to a human, yet the sticks at the top are analogous to arms and the sticks at the bottom are analogous to legs. Analogical thinking.
the green shade is coming over me i’m so drunk.
how would peepee know?
my brother claimed the only reason he couldn’t make bank at poker was his ukraine addiction…
but peepee is right.
bottom line: sufficiently high IQ (which no human may actually have) = you can make bank as a gambler/speculator/poker player.
I bet it would be possible to make a poker program beat the best humans by using machine learning to detect behavioral ‘tells’. That’s not part of the game itself in the context of abstract rules, but human players are allowed to do it.
You would need high-quality machine vision equipment as well
We’re probably only a few years away from computers “metagaming.”
i am a very high-achieving Madden and FIFA online player. my record in Madden this year up to this point has been 48 Ws and 37 Ls.
My record in FIFA is dubious but thats because the top-performers there are a lot harder to beat. Madden matches are a lot more of a toss-up!
[redacted by pp. 2022-03-06]
multi-player chess is NOT some freak game no one wants to play.
many HUMAN players VS computer = an experiment which hasn’t been tried.
SADLY…???
result would be humans won all games.
result would be humans won all games.
result would be humans won all games.
result would be humans won all games.
result would be humans won all games.
result would be humans won all games.
…
How is that fair? If the human gets help from other humans, the computer should get help from other computers.
indeed! but the computer would benefit much less.
1. a human player is only as good as his worst move. and humans make horrible moves. to err is human.
2. computers don’t make bad moves.
3. some humans have had an anti-computer style: capablanca, petrosian, karpov.
4. afaik there hasn’t been a human correspondence vs computer match since the computer LOST to the the world correspondence champ. if regular chess champs played correspondence they’ beat all the correspondence champs.
5. the horizon effect is real. there are chess problems (artificial) the best engines can’t solve which are easy for human masters.
humans can make PLANS.
computers can’t.
in static dull positions computers suck. these are the sort of positions petrosian excelled at creating.
in simple endgames, but not too simple, computers suck. these are the sort of positions capablanca excelled at creating.
i beat chessmaster many times because it couldn’t see far enough ahead. i don’t mean i could see all the moves ahead. i mean i could recognize i’d won and chessmaster couldn’t. the “horizon effect”.
all the chess engines SUCK at this feature of chess.
Theres no such thing as more than 2 person chess.
Also poker also requires a certain amount of social intelligence which is what computers can’t process.
Pill you have autism. face it. you repeat things and your communication sucks.
get a life.
I recently started playing (virtual money) poker after burning out on chess. My chess consistently and sharply improved over the two or three months during which I played seriously (well over 100 games). By contrast, I seem to be perfectly hopeless at poker – zero improvement.
If poker theory (and play) were trivial, then chess professionals would regularly make the leap and make bank – but they don’t. Poker (as a game of imperfect information) more perfectly mirrors the ‘games’ of life (business, politics, warfare, sex) than chess does.
Games of perfect information are a flight from reality. They constitute a realm in which the ‘intelligent’ beta male can feel smugly superior to his actual betters.
My poker performance mirrors my ‘performance’ in life. My I.Q. predicts that I ‘shouldn’t’ be an irredeemably worthless loser, but facts are facts.
I would argue that 3+ player ‘chess’ isn’t chess at all – it departs too much from chess proper to even qualify as a variant. It’s another game entirely.
On second thought, there is one respect in which life closely resembles both chess and draughts.
Our good moves are merely good, while our bad moves are terrible. If we make just one mistake in chess, we ordinarily can hope only for a draw. A single mistake in draughts typically guarantees a loss.
And so it is in life. A single blunder undoes weeks, months, even years of the most diligent planning and effort.
Consider the state of the average man in the developed world. He’s fat and sick, he gets laid infrequently or never, he’s broke or in debt, he’s divorced, (and paying alimony and/or child support), etc.. If we were to judge human intelligence against some absolute standard (long-term consequences of decisions or accuracy of analysis), we would be forced to conclude that it is very low indeed.
You have an overly pessimistic view of the average man. You’ve been on too many manosphere forums.
You’re right. I just left my mom’s basement for the first time in several years and was astonished to see all of the trim, handsome men with attractive wives and huge stacks of cash. I guess the average man really isn’t a blithering moron on the verge of total physical and mental collapse after all.
Pill you just said this man is pessimistic….you have no self-awareness. this means you have autism. go back to your mothers basement you creep.
Pessimistic? Pill youre the most pessimistic person ive encountered online or otherwise! do you have autism?
Loaded youre a mangina. Everyone can see it.
Nah, Loaded’s a lot of things. A mangina isn’t one of them.
Pill, arent you projecting much? seriously you lack coherent thought your mind is scattered and you sound like a coward who hides behind a screen and tells people who they are and what they should think!
i dont mean to be contradictory when i say this as i said youre the one labeling people but youre a narcissist Pill. you have grandiose delusions and then project them onto others. this is a highly unsafe and disturbing thought pattern. everything you say is an opinion never a fact. you believe so highly of yourself and in your convictions that you cant understand when youre wrong.
its whatever honestly. you need a reality-check for all the evil youve caused. you spread racist views online and spout nonsense about your personal beliefs and opinions that no one should take as credible.
that is all i can say about it. sorry bud but you need you reevaluate.
This article should be an example of HBD ignoramus …
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/washington-secrets/judge-jacksons-weird-resume-stymies-criticism-and-support
what happens to tall women?
do they always find a man 4+” taller, or do they give up and marry a man the same height?
i mean tall men aren’t as particular about a woman being 4+” shorter. so the tall women have to compete with all women for the tall men.
and a woman who’s just 5’10” is like a man who’s 6’4″.
i’ve heard of mr (nels) oleson from Little House but who is william owlson?
btw, heads up for LOADED, life insurance cos are criminals.
actuaries usually can’t make an honest living.
What’s the IQ of the best poker players? We have data for the top chess grandmasters, but I wonder how Phil Ivey, Phil Hellmuth, Daniel Negreanu, etc. would do on the WAIS-IV or whatever…