This is the third and final article in a series ordered for $3.50 USD by 150 IQ Ganzir (the market has since driven the price up to $15). Here, I focus on a 1958 paper on 64 Yeshiva men (age 16 to 31; mean age 21.43). Author Boris M. Levinson states:
Our sample finally consisted of 64 subjects, classified as follows : (a) six senior Yeshiva High School students, (b) 31 Yeshiva College students, (c) 27 graduate students. Among them were four ordained rabbis. Every graduate student was an alumnus of Yeshiva College. The writer believes that the sample secured was fairly representative of the Yeshiva population…
Below are the scores of the sample on the original Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS). The 11 subtest scores are expressed on a scale where the average American scores 10 (SD = 3), and the verbal, performance, and full-scale IQs are expressed on a scale where the average American scores 100 (SD = 15). To convert scaled scores to IQ equivalents, just multiply by 5 and then add 50. Because the study, was submitted for publication in 1957 and the WAIS was standardized in 1953.5, there was a trivial Flynn effect I adjusted for.

After correcting for slightly inflated norms, not a single mean score on the verbal subtests fell below the “Bright Normal range” and not a single performance subtest fell above the Average range. This complete lack of overlap shows the validity of the original verbal vs performance dichotomy that the Wechsler scales have since abandoned but which reflects the likely original reasons human intelligence evolved: To talk (verbal IQ) and to make and use tools (performance IQ).
Even Wechsler himself, who was also a Jewish New Yorker, likely showed this verbal > performance gap, as he became concerned that he could not solve his own Block Design items quickly.
The mean verbal > performance gap in this study is 21 points (22 after I adjust for norm inflation) but Levinson notes that for the graduate student sub-sample (n = 27), the mean gap was about 26 points and for rabbis (n = 4) it was about 34, which he interpreted as evidence that exposure to traditional Jewish culture was causing the gaps.
Levinson writes:
The students stated that the performance items appeared childish and unimportant. While they tried to achieve a good score whenever possible, the verbal items were more of a challenge...They said that an inferior score on a performance test was not as damaging to their self-esteem as a poor mark on the verbal tests.
I had the opposite attitude when I was tested on the Wechsler children’s scale at age 12. I thought the verbal items were mostly measuring what I learned in school and thus not knowing an answer didn’t damage my self-esteem. By contrast I saw the performance items as measuring my real intelligence.
Levinson writes:
In discussing the digit span test, quite a few of them indicated that they had visualized the digits. This is similar to the experience of some of these students who, in studying the Talmud, remember page location of a passage.
On the other hand, practice on one cognitive task seldom transfer to another unless they’re all but identical. In one study people who practiced their memory span for digits managed to increase it from seven to in some case over 100, but when faced with a memory span for letters task. They were right back down to seven. But perhaps that study was too brief to fully capture the effects of practice.
Levinson writes:
The subjects have been subjected, since their early school days, to a curriculum which greatly emphasized verbal knowledge, rote memory, verbal concept formation, abstract ideas, to the general neglect of performance arts. Examinations in the Talmud, for example, are oral and emphasize the detailed memorization and understanding of tracts. A differentiation of intellectual abilities has thus occurred. These cultural forces have also brought about different attitudes and self concepts regarding various intellectual tasks. Failure on a performance item does not carry the same ego deflating connotations as failures on a verbal task. It thus appears that the greater the premium placed on verbal ability in a subculture, the greater will be the disparity between verbal and performance WAIS scores.
There’s no doubt that cultural exposure affects verbal IQ score. Excellent research in the 1920s showed that canal boat children who lived a nomadic existence where they were virtually deprived of schooling, showed massive declines in IQ as they got older. Because IQ tests are normed for age, and because these kids were kept out of school they fell further and further behind their chronological age-mates on the type of knowledge that IQ tests measure. Young canal boat kids would have an IQ around 90, but older canal boat kids would have an IQ of 60. However when their performance IQs were tested, there was no such decline.
Perhaps the opposite is occurring with Yeshiva kids. Instead of their verbal IQs falling further and further behind as the effects of missed schooling accumulate, they grow further and further ahead, as the effects of enhanced schooling multiply.
On the other hand schooling likely has diminishing returns on verbal IQ once we get a basic amount. A study in Japan (where schooling is more intense) found older kids scored only slightly higher on verbal IQ.
So the mean verbal-performance gap for non-graduate students was 18 I guess. In the sample of the previous post the verbal-spatial gap was 16, so about the same. Are all the performance tasks spatial in nature?
All require attention to visual detail but only block design & object assembly I’d consider spatial
Perhaps Ashkenazim are weaker on non-verbal tasks generally rather than just spatial?
I think there are Latin American countries with a better social safety net than America. Sad!
Don’t they simply send their vagrants to the US usually? I believe strongly in social safety nets if they’re coupled with expectation, but left-wingers can’t cope emotionally putting onus on brown people/are afraid of losing sophistication points doing so. Now we are left with r-strategists shitting out kids that they can’t afford or have no intention of raising and who are trained to hate white people and vote for glad-handing narcissists who use them to acquire power at the expense of potentially productive ‘oppressor’ hoi polloi.
That was a joke. It’s clearly the right path for the US, Canada, and Europe to import people who didn’t evolve to cooperate and delay gratification, instill resentment towards their hosts, and give them special ‘oppressed’ perks and a bunch of shit for free. Just an awesome idea that will end well for everyone.
Im actually more extreme left than that and believe in UBI, but youre right about illegal immigrants. I would ban it for illegals and and deport all illegals immediately. Also illegals would need to wait outside the country while visa applications are being processed. Any employers that are found to hire illegals pay a 30% tax on the businesse’s REVENUE. Basically illegal immigration would end within 2 weeks if I was in charge.
[redacted by pp, feb 23, 2021]
Lol pepe lets THAT through unredacted so I can only imagine what the last paragraph was
Eloquent and based
I have an IQ profile like these Yeshiva kids — high verbal, low performance.
I’d be more comfortable with having high performance IQ tbh, because I think it’s harder to spuriously inflate PIQ, but I’m comforted by the fact that I come from a very low socioeconomic background with uneducated parents so it’s unlikely my verbal IQ is inflated that much, if at all.
I come from a very low socioeconomic background with uneducated parents
Username checks out
My username checks out the most in all honesty.
In light of all of this, what do you think about the movie Believer (2001) PP? Not sure if I have asked you already .
Extremely disturbing. Hard to watch. But well made
You know that scene where Avi meets Danny latter on in the movie. The actor who played Avi was an initial choice for Danny’s character. It felt like a meta moment.
Everything said in that movie is accurate except that Jewish women like giving head.
Madden is the most alpha game ever made. If youre down to be an alpha play this highly spatially-loaded strategy game and tell me what you think. It is of course modelled after the most brutal sport in history.
Football is not the most brutal sport. MMA is.
How about adopted Jews? Do they perform similarly better on verbal than performance when raised in irreligious goy households? I would suggest they do, but perhaps not quite to the same extent. Basing this intuition on the fact (oft-repeated by Plomin, wrt other traits too) that the shared environment does very little to contribute to intelligence. I also love the fact that Plomin’s own polygenic score for educational attainment vindicates his research and success – it’s in the 99th percentile.
Some environments place a much higher premium on intelligence, or components of it, than others, yet there’s little translation to shared environment effects. I get that the Yeshiva is an exceptional case, but if the environment caused all that difference, then you’d expect an environmental effect (albeit smaller) for most. In my own case, I wanted Verbal IQ > Performance IQ but got the opposite…
How about adopted Jews? Do they perform similarly better on verbal than performance when raised in irreligious goy households?
Don’t think it’s ever been studied, or rather, the results of the study have never been released publicly:
https://pumpkinperson.com/2019/01/28/cnn-special-about-triplets-separated-at-birth-tonight/
Thanks for the articles, Pepe. Commentary while waiting on my P’zone:
In discussing the digit span test, quite a few of them indicated that they had visualized the digits. This is similar to the experience of some of these students who, in studying the Talmud, remember page location of a passage.
Interesting. I wonder to what extent most people remember words visually. I’m an extremely talented, although far from perfect or “photographic,” text memorizer, and my “memorization strategy” doesn’t involve any kind of mental imagery. I just… remember it.
which he interpreted as evidence that exposure to traditional Jewish culture was causing the gaps.
Of course a mainstream psychologist would blame it on culture without considering a variant of the investment hypothesis, i.e., people naturally like doing what they’re good at and therefore get better at it. Probably both apply here, although I suspect the latter more than the former.
Or, at least, I don’t THINK this guy cited the investment hypothesis. I haven’t read the paper yet.
The mean verbal > performance gap in this study is 21 points (22 after I adjust for norm inflation) but Levinson notes that for the graduate student sub-sample (n = 27), the mean gap was about 26 points and for rabbis (n = 4) it was about 34, which he interpreted as evidence that exposure to traditional Jewish culture was causing the gaps.
Fascinating. This triggered some inquiries in my mind, but I’ll reserve elaboration until I’ve read the paper.
On the other hand, practice on one cognitive task seldom transfer to another unless they’re all but identical. In one study people who practiced their memory span for digits managed to increase it from seven to in some case over 100, but when faced with a memory span for letters task. They were right back down to seven. But perhaps that study was too brief to fully capture the effects of practice.
Ah, yes, Goodhart’s Law. This is exactly the concept I’ve been trying to drum into people’s heads for years, largely without success. If the masses understood this, companies behind “brain games” like Lumosity and Peak would fail overnight.
On the other hand schooling likely has diminishing returns on verbal IQ once we get a basic amount. A study in Japan (where schooling is more intense) found older kids scored only slightly higher on verbal IQ.
I assume they tested them in Japanese. If so, how could the norms be comparable to those of other countries? If not, did they adjust for them being non-native speakers?
Incidentally, I’ve started my own blog, ganzir.info. There’s no content yet though.
whether you believe it or not the fact that everything in the mind is basically spatial to some extent draws on basic science and observation. this cannot be invalidated until the physical nature of our universe is disproved.
True in a physical sense, and possibly in poetic and metaphysical senses, but in a psychometric context not so much.
Yes in a psychometric sense you may be able to actually find the concept to remember and reason with through reinforcing non-visual elements of the corresponding ideas behind it. I process things very similarly but obviously lack a savant component when it comes to remembering.
Memory is so crucial to developing an understanding of reasoning because it generally relates to patterns and patterns are often just a manipulation of memory in many respects. Logic has the same sentiment to it as well but abstract thought is usually purged of memory and is often far more difficult for this reason.
You’re delusional enough to think that the human mind can be studied by scientists?
Thats not what was said. I said that the physical universe is derived by scientific and empirical observations and those observations can be extrapolated so that those assumptions can be applied to the mind as well.
Do i believe that the human mind might not fit the laws of physical universe? thats a possibility but i cant necessarily speak on it as ive had no encounters with those opportunities.
Understanding the human mind probably requires quantum mechanics which probably requires a Marsha level IQ to grasp.
cybernetics
I think the mind and the brain are more or less the one thing but I’ve read of people near death that have had outer body experiences where they can see themselves so I’m open to dualism.
Who/what is Marsha?
Allegedly a 170IQ prostitute. Im not kidding.
I assume they tested them in Japanese. If so, how could the norms be comparable to those of other countries? If not, did they adjust for them being non-native speakers?
The American WISC-R was simply translated into Japanese & then given to a representative sample of Japanese. Their scores were later compared to American norms, even though the Americans took the test in English and the Japanese were tested in Japanese. Whether the norms are still valid when the verbal test is translated is a fascinating question that requires more research.
If they translated it into Spanish or Frisian or some other language where there’s nearly a one-to-one correspondence between words in that language and in English, I could almost believe that the norms would still be valid, but when the target language is as utterly different as Japanese, not so much. Mind you, I don’t actually speak Japanese, so I don’t have a solid idea of HOW different the two languages are, but I’m extremely skeptical that their vocabularies would be even remotely bijective.
Were you saying that older Japanese children had higher verbal IQs than their younger compatriots in the same cohort or than American children? I’d imagine that the Japanese version of the verbal index has considerably different items. Even Australia makes cultural adjustments for their WAIS afaik.
[redacted by pp, feb 22, 2021]
I’ll hook you up
luv u pp
Where is Santo? Did you ban him because he kept complaining about your moderation?
No he was so disgusted by your fascism he left.
roman vs british empire.
which has had more influence?
it’ll take another century or more to rule on that.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Number_of_Catholics_by_Country%E2%80%93Pew_Research_2011.svg
That map with the light red british ‘territories and protectorates’ isn’t historically accurate. For example Japan was never a brit territory or protectorate.
Looking at it now, half the countries shaded light red were never brit empire. Who came up with this map – Cecil Rhodes?
OBVIOUSLY you fucking bottom!
did you click on this? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Number_of_Catholics_by_Country%E2%80%93Pew_Research_2011.svg
The map is still wrong fuckface.
japan is part of the anglo-american empire fuckface. tooooday!
it all depends on what means by “the british empire”.
the american empire is the latter day british empire just like the roman church is the roman empire and london and nyc are the finanvial capitals of the world and english is the lingua franca.
Thanks to the EU open borders plan, 25% of our country is now eastern european or non EU. Great.
the american civil war is still ongoing.
the european civil war/the german wars are still ongoing.
Reblogged this on Ganzir and commented:
Article 3 of a three-article series which I commissioned from Pumpkin Person after winning an auction with a tremendous bet of tree fiddy ($3.50 USD).
Pingback: When spatial IQ is much lower than overall IQ (in people of normal or higher overall IQ) – Ganzir
Okay, so here’s the question that’s bugging me, especially since the paper doesn’t give me enough information to answer it:
The mean verbal > performance gap in this study is 21 points (22 after I adjust for norm inflation) but Levinson notes that for the graduate student sub-sample (n = 27), the mean gap was about 26 points and for rabbis (n = 4) it was about 34, which he interpreted as evidence that exposure to traditional Jewish culture was causing the gaps.
So how should the different gaps be interpreted? I guess the larger size of the rabbi gap could be due to chance with n=4, but the graduate student/overall difference looks to be real. Does that mean the graduate students had higher verbal IQs than the overall sample, or that they had lower performance IQs, or both? I’m guessing mainly the former.
Anyway, I’m severely skeptical of any claim to the effect of “people are good at this because they’re taught to value being good at it.” While the effect of culture on ability crystallization and selective motivation can’t be ignored completely, people naturally like doing what they’re good at.
chicken & egg problem. Do they like it because they’re good at it or are they good at it because they like it?
Ganzir needs to start playing Madden like I do. That game alone has helped me build the mental capacity as well as the confidence to do various things. I just pulverize these elite players with my defense and nobody can do a single thing about it.
My record is 56-72 thus far. That doesnt seem impressive but Im playing people whose lives revolve around this game. Like the guy with the custom Raiders gametag….oooh that was a good win. Xbox rules!
Sports games are ok. But theres no way I’d use a sports game as an example of mental performance. Half the FIFA pros wouldn’t even be able to do algebra.
It’s probably more the former. Afaict the jewish community has always put a huge premium on financial success and/or knowledge of torah.
Both overwhelmingly select for high VIQ. Finance and shopkeeping load strongly on verbal dexterity.
Aren’t inter-index correlations stronger in childhood, before people specialize and their neglected faculties atrophy? I think as you go up (and down) the IQ scale, skills are more scattered – and those people tend to be the ones pursuing postgrad degrees. I’m always impressed with people like Brian Greene and Neil Tyson who possess the ability to grasp complex physical phenomena and also the eloquence and neurotypicality to effectively convey them to others. A lot of mathematically-inclined folks are inarticulate autists, and most journalists have inadequate ability to compute and be objective.
I think RR is dumb but at least he tries hard. You are dumb and you spout shit like youre some sort of expert on everything. So dumb.
THIS IS A COMMENT ABOUT THE ARTICLE PUPPY. AM I ALLOWED MENTION JEWS SINCE THAT IS THE FUCKING SUBJECT MATTER?
Verbal IQ has little to no link to talking and dealing with people. That is something to be measured by social IQ. Muhammed Ali had a 70IQ and he is considered the most charismatic sportsman of all time and was invited to talk on many talkshows during his time.
I bet if jews were measured on social IQ, they would do extremely well. I would even say jewish nerds would be better on this than nerds of any other race with the exception maybe of blacks. Of course having a 100IQ is considered nerdy in black circles.
How do you talk with all that Jewish cock in your mouth?
Oh no she didn’t
had to give the same talk to my brother a week ago after he expressed his homosexual attraction to einstein.
fission discovered by german gentile…
chain reaction by guido…
otto hahn
enrico fermi
I love reading my own comments.
As you can tell Im in a bad mood.
I had sausage rolls for lunch today. Fantastic.
pork pies > sausage rolls
No lunch today. Or as they call it ‘power lunch’. Sadface.
This is what unchecked hypocrisy looks like. Glad PP is not a politician or hed let crooks like these into positions of power.
Thank the Higher Power that Pill is a legit schizophrenic who cant amount to anything in life and not someone he wants to be: a person of power.
are you enjoying your people in their purim festivities? 😂
jesus christ, i shouldn’t have slammed that four loko.
That drink is disgusting. Be a man and drink a stout.
Has phil played the latest super smash bros game? Super fun, but the learning curve is insane.
No, Im not really a nintendo fan.