One might wonder how a man like Ron Hoeflin (who had very little income or power) was able to create a test that measured one in a million level U.S. intelligence. After all , wouldn’t you need to administer a test to several million Americans to reliably estimate how well a one a million mind would perform?
But the clever Hoeflin found a shortcut called equipercentile equating, and when I first heard about it a couple decades ago, it blew my mind. Hoeflin didnt need to give the Mega Test to millions of people because millions of people had already taken the SAT, so all Hoeflin had to do was ask people who took his Mega Test to reveal their SAT scores. Assuming they didn’t lie or selectively report, it was simply a matter of equating the distribution of Mega scores with the distribution of SAT scores and then equating a one in a million SAT score (perfect 1600 pre-1995) with its counterpart in the Mega score distribution.
The Prometheus MC Report explained it as follows:
If one assumes that raw scores on the Mega and the SAT are monotonically related to mental ability, i. e., that a higher raw score on either test correlates with higher mental ability, then there is some function z1(n) that relates raw scores on the Mega to standard intelligence scores z and there is some function z2(m) that relates raw scores on the SAT to standard scores z, where z = (IQ-100)/16. It is plausible to assume that the joint probability distribution of z1 and z2 is just the bivariate normal distribution p(z1,z2,r) for some correlation r. This function is symmetric in z1 and z2. Thus, for any random sample for which raw scores exist for both the SAT and Mega, if we have n scores with z1 > 4, then we would expect n scores with z2 > 4. These would not generally be the same n individuals in each case. Thus, if we know the 1-in-30,000 cutoff on the SAT (raw score=1560), and if there are N people in the sample of people taking both the SAT and the Mega scoring at this level or higher on the SAT, then counting down the highest N Mega scores from the sample would give a reasonable estimate of the 4-sigma cutoff on the Mega (raw score=36). Ron Hoeflin showed that, if you do this for several different cutoffs, then the resulting Mega normalization is linear over a range of scores including 36. This linearity feature seems to be standard on IQ tests over their range of applicability.
We are aware that there are difficulties in this argument (e.g., with respect to self-reporting of SAT scores, nonrandomness of sampling, small sample sizes, and mathematically allowed but “unphysical” test scores associated with ceiling effects).
To this day I have no idea what “unphysical” test scores are by they sound fascinating!
In my opinion equipercentile equating only works if (1) both tests being paired are more or less equally correlated with g (or some other factor(s)), and (2) the people in your sample were not selected by one of the tests being equated. So if your sample were Harvard undergrads, you wouldn’t want to equate Mega scores with SAT scores because the undergrads were selected by the SAT and thus would be expected to regress to the mean on any other test they take. Much better to equate their LSAT scores to their Mega scores.
Equipercentile equating the PATMA & the WAIS
I noticed that at least six commenters had reported both their PATMA and WAIS scores. The first two columns of table 1 rank the commenters by their PATMA scores. The second two rank them by their WAIS scores. This side by side ranking allows us to equate PATMA scores with their WAIS equivalent. In some cases commenters took a version of the WAIS over a decade after its norms were published so scores might be inflated by a few points because of the Flynn effect.
Name | PATMA score | WAIS IQ | Name |
---|---|---|---|
Ganzir | 10 | 150+ | Teffec P |
Teffec P | 10 | 150 | Ganzir |
Dexter | 9 | 141 | Billy |
Billy | 8 | 133 | Dexter |
Gman | 7 | 120 | Gman |
Illuminaticat | 6 | 112 | Illuminaticat |
Although the sample size is small, preliminary data suggests an absurdly high correlation between the two tests (r = 0.94!). Indeed the line of best fit predicts:
Expected WAIS IQ = 9.025(PATMA score) + 59.125
Instead if we graph the data by score of equivalent rank (rather than scores made by the same person) it seems the PATMA has an incredibly linear relationship to IQ (r = 0.9975) expressed by the equation:
WAIS IQ Equivalent = 9.625(PATMA score) + 54.125:
Note the subtle distinction between formulas. The first is telling us the expected WAIS IQ of someone with a given PATMA score. The second is telling us what WAIS IQ you’d get if you performed as well or as poorly on the WAIS as you did on the PATMA.
Notice that only two people in this extremely bright sample scored a perfect 10 on the PATMA and only two people also scored 150+ on the WAIS (incidentally the same two people). This suggests a perfect 10 on the PATMA equates to about a 150 IQ (+3.33 SD) however this is a conservative estimate because Teffec P suspects his PATMA score might have benefited from reading this blog (teaching to the test) and his WAIS score was likely suppressed by ceiling bumping (his median scaled score was the highest possible scaled score and much higher than his mean scaled score). Correcting for this suggests that on a ceiling-free WAIS he would have scored 164. So if his PATMA score is too high and his WAIS score is too low, than we get a very different equivalents:
Name | PATMA score | WAIS IQ | Name |
---|---|---|---|
Ganzir | 10 | 164 | Teffec P |
Dexter | 9 | 150 | Ganzir |
Teffec P | 8 | 141 | Billy |
Billy | 8 | 133 | Dexter |
Gman | 7 | 120 | Gman |
Illuminaticat | 6 | 112 | Illuminaticat |
However for now I’ll stick to the flawed but real data in table 1 rather than the speculation that is table 2.
“To this day I have no idea what “unphysical” test scores are by they sound fascinating!”
I think this means extrapolated “scores” over the ceiling of the test, e.g., Grady Towers’ claim that a perfect score on the Titan Test corresponded to 1780 on the SAT, which has a ceiling of 1600. See the chart at the bottom of the page, where unphysical scores are in parentheses: http://miyaguchi.4sigma.org/hoeflin/titan/gradynorm.html
Just to add, my WAIS-IV IQ is 132 and my PATMA 8. My younger brother has PATMA 6 and WAIS-IV 108.
Both you AND your brother took the WAIS-IV? That’s unusual.
I have a student of psychology in the family who has access to the test who performed it on us for free.
Cool! Thanks for the data!
I got an 8 on PATMA. I have never taken an actual IQ test, but in elementary school I took a test called the Cognitive Abilities Test (CogAT) and scored 123.
Thanks for the data
Anytime, Pumpkin.
Wow i dont know if this is blowing my mind simply because im high or what is going on….im driving to Georgia right now I hope all the regular commenters are still here, you guys have been an inspiration…
OMG good to hear from you!
When did Gman take the WAIS?
It was March 2015. Around the time I started looking at this blog….time flies!!!!
i got a 900 on the sat because i circled random bubbles and a 7 on da patma
Did u correspond with all of these ppl via email and have em send u legitimate test results?
No it’s self-reported data but in most cases they provided extensive details about their WAIS scores which are hard to fake unless they know a lot about test
This approach is a great thing, but there is one thing I dont understand. PP, if you would, can you please bring some light on it. Lets assume first that somebody has taken 10 iq tests in a row, all of the tests are recognized as those having good psychometrical properties etc , etc. Let’s say , he got a range of final scores , averaging, say, on 130. For simplicity, let’s imagen, that a distribution of the scores was roughly normal, moda and the average coincided – I dont know – at IQ=130.But we all know that if we consider the entire experiment as some meta-test, his ‘composite score’ or ‘overall Iq” is higher. We knew, for instance , an intercorellacion between those testes and came up with – ooops – Iq =140/Then, If we put a test number 11 ( we want to norm it up, that test is still under construction ) and the guy got a raw score 90/100, what iq this result would be equivalent to? statistically – Im just guessing – its 130. Is something wrong with the whole picture , PP? thank you
Equipercentile equating would obviously be extremely unreliable with only one person in the sample but the IQ we’d assign the 11th test would be 130 since that’s what the other 10 tests equated it to (on average)
But why is this lower than the composite IQ? Because as I stated in the article, in my opinion equipercentile equating only works if the tests have similar correlations with g (or whatever caused the correlations). Typically a composite score, especially one based on many tests, will be much more g loaded than the subtests it’s detived from.
Brilliant question btw
Thank you. Do you, guys, celebrate Thanksgiving in Canada? Anyways, happy Thanksgiving to all on here who does!
Puppys head hurts if you ask him to charm a woman.
Realistically I could get more women than you. You scare women. They’re afraid of you.
You said you would attract women by beating them in boardgames.
Having a cranium the size of mine may indeed be intimidating
^^^ cringe
Most traditions are stupid , whitey
Again, a bit of uninformed (and rehashed) speculation on my part:
Power tests, such as the Mega, are often criticized for being mere gauges of persistence, reflecting personality rather than intellect. Certainly, the tests demand a tenacious bent to render a “successful” outcome, so it is not unreasonable to characterize the type as “tests of persistence”. I would take it a bit further, however, and posit that they are, in large part, tests of the *ability to persist* – to sustain attention, to manifest an assiduousness unhampered by, what for most would be, the dulling and mind-locking influence of protracted and unanswered (or dead-ended) exertion and review that precludes repeated and fresh engagement. That is to say, the problems effectively blunt the thought processes, rendering them too insipid to engage, too unyielding to hold the interest.
Perhaps, persistence is not merely (or at least, not always) a trait of personality; maybe it is, under certain circumstances, one of intellectual capacity. I wonder if it could be that the line between personality and intellect is unwarrantedly well-delineated.
I consider persistence to be a personality variable rather than a cognitive one but persisting on the mega test should be correlated with IQ because (1) high IQ people are likely more intellectually curious and (2) we’re more likely to persist at what we’re good at.
Also, only persistent people would complete the mega test so persistence is largely controlled in the norms
Yes, I know…most do. I’m ever the (often wrong) outlier.
P, please excuse my earlier, less than commensurate, somewhat monosyllabic response. Clearly there is merit in what you’re saying. But I suspect, on a purely intuitive basis, that if each of us were to elaborate – expounding to an extent that I am, of late, genuinely disinclined – we’d find that the bridge between perspectives would be one of a more semantical than elemental construction.
Oh, damn! I’ve gotten sucked back into a subject for which I believed I’d no interest. I don’t have time for this 8O)
“It measures persistence” – only someone on Rosner’s IQ level would say that. I know I could work on the harder non-verbal Mega questions for years without figuring them out lol
I wonder whether a lot of fast thinkers, accustomed to quick returns for their efforts, short-change themselves on tests like the Mega by surrendering prematurely. I think that some, perhaps many, would be surprised at what’s possible when one assumes a ponderous – even meditative – mentation in contemplating such difficult problems.
My daughter – an English teacher – would have chastised me (with a grin) for that egregious malapropism. “Dad, are you kidding…’Ponderous’ instead of ‘pondering’?!! Didn’t your grandfather also suffer through early-onset dementia?” 8O)
Btw, it would be a great joke if at the end of the day we somehow see that Mug of Pee never existed, and it’s all done by PP himself in order to make the blog more alive and catchy lol. Or done even uncontrollably, in Jekyll and Hyde style😊 But, if so, it would be my infinite regret
what if everyone but u was done by pp?
I would be deeply honored lol
One guy who maxed out the Mega Test did an AMA on reddit. It was verified so that means he was telling the truth. He said he took it when he was 16 and did it an afternoon or two for fun. He had also maxed out every subtest of the WAIS for adults at 16 years old. One interesting comment from him was that he said he saw the solution to the block design problems instantly, but fumbling around with the blocks could lead to a decrease in one’s score. However that didn’t have an effect in his case.
Cult guru and inmate, Keithe Raniere, made a similar claim:
“When I took the Mega Test, I did so because some of the problems looked interesting. At first glance, I thought 42 of the problems were trivial, the other six required a little work.
I solved 43 of the problems in about two straight hours; the other 5 problems and proofs of some of my assertions took me about eight more hours, spread out over the next 4 days.
I handed in my result sheet and found shortly thereafter I had copied one of my answers incorrectly (one of the easier problems on the test!).
I called Ron [Hoeflin] who had missed my mistake.
I scored 46 out of 48 on the mega test.
I thought 10 hours was inappropriately long (I thought I was really bending the “untimed” nature of the test), I later learned that was considered a short time.
So my quick time was likely luck of the draw and my emotional obsessive-compulsive problem solving nature made me the perfect candidate to score high on such an exam.”
https://frankreport.com/2017/12/09/raniere-proved-his-highest-iq-by-conducting-his-own-study/
Mr. Raniere, according to the author, has said he never mentions his super-genius IQ to impress people. He uses it to show that a high IQ means someone is good at solving problems found on IQ tests.
Whether it is true that Mr. Raniere (or anyone else) considered approximately 90% of the Mega Test’s problems “trivial”, I haven’t the faintest. What I can say for certain is that, while there was but a single point difference between our outcomes, I found there to be few, if any, problems that I would describe as “trivial”. And although, as previously mentioned, I generated two, and occasionally three, solutions for many (perhaps most) of the posers – just to be sure – much of the test, which, on its surface, looked like a playground for the intellect, was, for me, quite grueling.
I had misremembered some details. The guy on reddit scored 47 out of 48 on the Mega Test, so not a perfect score. He had also maxed out the WAIS for adults at 15 years old, not 16. Here’s a quote from him
“Like /u/EqusG more or less suggested, Langan’s IQ claims are fairly dubious.
And he’s an egomaniacal hack in other regards, so there’s no real purpose in wasting breath exalting his abilities.
I think Rick Rosner and I may now share the Titan high score, or there may be a 1 question difference. I forget. I did it and the Mega test (separately) mostly for kicks over like 1-2 days on high school exchange in Germany. Not something I spent a lot of time dwelling on.”
Here’s a link to his AMA if anyone is interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/x7drk/by_request_iama_member_of_the_mega_society_the/
Quite a few years back, I was a regular on a so-called [redacted by pp, dec 2, 2020]. I recall a gent who went by the name of Brian. Brian noted that he’d undertaken the Mega Test, but that he encountered a number series he’d found particularly difficult. This was well after the test was declared “compromised” and was no longer being accepted for Mega Society admission. Nevertheless, in retrospect, I view my response as both stupid and self-serving: I furnished him with the answer. I later read that one very astute fellow named Brian had scored 47/48 on said test. Whether he was the selfsame gent, I can’t be sure. But my suspicion in this connection, together with other, like “cases”, has led me to believe that there are a number of con artists who’ve associated themselves with IQ-dom while in desperate pursuit of a most hollow form of recognition and the mantle of genius. That’s not to say that your referenced fellow is not the real deal. It’s simply an acknowledgment of a feeling of uncertainty, coupled with a bit of healthy skepticism.
Come to think of it I’m sort of doubtful of the validity of any scores on untimed unsupervised tests in the internet age. I feel like someone at +3 sigma could easily do much better on such tests with the aid of the internet than in the past when the tests were first rolled out.
“Do the Mega and Titan Tests Yield Accurate Results?
An Investigation into Two Experimental
Intelligence Tests” (Published: 29 April 2020)
https://www.mdpi.com/2624-8611/2/2/10
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in! 8O)
That’s not me ! I have never submitted Mega nor any Hoeflin test.
I have answered all verbal, numerical and some spatial problems of this test but I don’t know whether the answers are true. I posted it here but Pumpkin told me I was compromising Hoeflin work so I stopped.
I thought about doing Titan but it’s a bit too spatial oriented for me and I fear it would be too big an investment.
I would never cheat the scoring btw not because of morality but because the reward is 0.
Hi, Bruno, I apologize for being a little obtuse. Did you take it that I’d said something concerning you?
Curiosity piqued, I dug a bit and unearthed this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_K._Hoeflin
“…while a 15-year-old C. Minor is the only one to complete The Mega Test and Titan Test flawlessly, and to perfectly and ethically pass either one in a single attempt, conservatively implying a correspondence at or well above IQ 199-208[16] and the highest global level of fluid intelligence – without any age-correction and prior to any precision norms or proto-norm extrapolations whatsoever…”
“After Rick Rosner used several eponymous and pseudonymous submissions to become the first to find a complete score on this test early on, it would be well over a decade before a teenaged C. Minor would surpass Rosner by clearing the test on a first-attempt basis without rule violations.”
Astonishing! C. Minor sounds like the gent discussed earlier (What a great alias. I’d give him 10 points on the Mega for the name alone 8O). Then, in an unrelated search, I happened upon this:
https://www.newsintervention.com/second-pass-of-the-world-intelligence-network-3-13-4-8-sigma-societies/
The plot thickens!
It could easily be a megalomaniac who wrote themselves into the list, and many answers to those tests had been leaked by then anyway.
“It could easily be a megalomaniac who wrote themselves into the list, and many answers to those tests had been leaked by then anyway.”
Agreed. Also, having engaged quite extensively on my own behalf, I became intimately familiar with the Wiki’ editing process. Some of the falsehoods green-lighted as factual are irksome, and sometimes downright repugnant – particularly when well-established truths are scrapped and said falsehoods appear in their stead. It seems that money and “renown” are powerfully motivating and influential.
Want to analyze my WAIS scores as you did with Billy? I also received an 8 on the PATMA, a 33 on the Wonderlic, a 139 on the Verbal section of PDIT, and a 142 on its verbal section.
Similarities: 19
Vocabulary: 19
Information: 12
Matrix Reasoning: 16 (Missed one item…)
Figure Weights: 15
Visual Puzzles: 14
Coding: 11
Symbol Search: 14
Digit Span: 14
Letter Number Sequencing: 14
VCI: 139 | PRI: 131 | PSI: 114 | WMI: 122 |
GAI: 141 | FSIQ: 136
Some notes: I was 23 years old and the session was proctored online. The proctor stated that they believed if I were given the Comprehension subtest, I would have maxed it. They also stated that if this had occurred, my GAI would have been 148 and my FSIQ would have been 142–although, I don’t think that this hypothetical is incredibly useful as Comprehension is a supplemental subtest that should not be given just because a participant is likely to score well on it. I’ve also seen sample items from the Block Design subtest and I’m pretty confident that I could at least come close to maxing that subtest, which would bring my PRI closer to what I achieved on the Non-verbal section of PDIT.
Very interesting! I’ll post my article on it this week. Any personal or biographic information you’re comfortable sharing to help put the scores in context?
I meant to put that I got a 142 on the PDIT Non-verbal section. And I’m probably comfortable sharing any information that you’re comfortable asking. Here are my results on some other tests that people have wanted me to take: http://antjuanfinch.com/testresults . And here is my account on a site for verifying if someone has been admitted to one of Harvard’s schools: https://connections.harvard.edu/users/5210a2716d37d2ade55c66c10aa4fad4 . As you can see, I’m an admitted undergrad at Harvard Extension School. Although the school’s reputation suggests otherwise, admitted undergrads at Harvard Extension are mostly of the same caliber, at least academically, as Harvard College undergrads, so some extrapolations from my scores here probably wouldn’t be too unreasonable. To add a bit of context for my equivocation here, 3 of the 4 classes I’m taking this semester are also Harvard College classes, and the one that isn’t is taught by a former professor at Yale. And from what I can tell, the admission rate for the undergraduate program at Harvard Extension is about 7%: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-acceptance-rate-at-Harvard-Extension-School#:~:text=Originally%20Answered%3A%20What%20is%20the,nearly%20100%25%20for%20eligible%20candidates.
https://www.google.com/search?q=harvard+extension+undergraduate+admission+rate&oq=harvard+extension+undergraduate+admission+rate&aqs=chrome..69i57.8691j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Thanks so much for the info! Just a few more questions (feel free to not answer any you find invasive).
1) what led to you taking the WAIS & how did it end up being online?
2) what were your verbal + math SAT scores (please specify if it was post 2016 since they changed the scale at that time)
3) what is your national & ethnic heritage?
4) have you ever been diagnosed with a mental disorder?
1. Curiosity, mostly. I can’t imagine someone that is very interested in psychometrics turning down the opportunity to take that test for free.
2. –
3. I’m African American and no adjustments to my scores were made on that basis.
4. I once received medication for bipolar disorder from a psychiatrist, but was never formally diagnosed as having bipolar, or any other disorder. I doubt that I would qualify for a diagnosis for any disorder at this time.
Interesting, thanks!
Something that also might worth noting is that I’ve lived below or near the poverty line in the US for essentially my entire life, even being homeless a few times. If given the childhood circumstances of most Harvard students, I’m sure I would have much more cool accomplishments and maybe even better IQ scores, potentially even being a prodigy of some time.
The plot thickens. Unusual for such a high IQ person to come from such a poor home. It would be interesting to test your parents (both cognitively and emotionally) to find the source of the poverty, though even controlling for IQ African Americans are much more likely to live below the poverty line. The average African American is about 75% white genetically. Do you think you are significantly above or below this average? Were all 4 of your biological grandparents African American? And did you take the WAIS-IV recently? I ask because as you know, the norms have historically become inflated by a few points per decade, though the Flyn effect may have stopped in recent years.
I don’t know my dad’s IQ but my mom got a 102 on both the Wonderlic and PDIT. Both of my parents have been diagnosed with mental disorders. Yes, all 4 of my biological grandparents are African American. My great grandfather on my mom’s side was half Native American, I believe. And I took the WAIS-IV about two weeks ago.
so why is wakanda fiction?
All four of my biological grandparents were African American. I don’t know my dad’s IQ but my mom has an IQ of about 102 according to my test and the Wonderlic. Both of my parents have been diagnosed with mental disorders.
Oh sorry you had to double reply. The first reply got stuck in spam but has been restored since it had additional content
The african american is about 80% african isnt??
Estimates vary
Generally…
His scores are very similar to mine. I don’t think I would’ve done well on the information part, especially at 23. But I think comprehension employs at a lot of information. I grew up being pretty insular; being an immigrant, I mostly hung around Mexicans, so whatever common American idiom, I picked up very late in my teens; my surrounding was not high class – a lot of minorities in the area.
Though obviously comprehension allows for latitude, which a very verbal mind can take advantage of, which is why I scored 17.
But damn, our cognitive profile is the same! This is interesting to me, because I wonder if the low processing speed gives you characteristics similar to mine – though you’re likely much more conscious than I, as I was never anywhere close to being admitted to a top school.
It would be interesting to see your big five scores. I’m curious as to how much our different outcomes are due to differences along those dimensions.
Why so much analysis on the Harvard thing? What does it prove? The average Harvard undergrad student has a much lower IQ than you seem to have. By the way, my ex has a PhD from Cornell in Computer Science, with many achievements before that, and he was annoyingly mediocre in our conversations.
antjuan i think vegan dha has a crush on u… Obviously shit testing u. She wants ur $$$ IQ.
That misuse of equivocation is driving me crazy…
people love inflated IQ scores to feel better about themselves.