Tags
Arthur Jensen, Cattel-Horn-Caroll, Does Your Family Make You Smarter?, fluid vs crystallized, heritability, IQ, James Flynn, Raven Progressive Matrices, shared environment
Using twin studies, scientists divide phenotypic variation into three categories: DNA variation, shared environmental variation, and unshared environmental variation. Shared environment are all the experiences MZ twins reared together have in common (same upbringing, same schools, same womb) while unshared environment are all the experiences they don’t share (position within the womb, getting hit on the head, having an inspiring teacher).
The best estimate using massive datasets suggest that within Western democracies, DNA explains 41% of IQ variation at age 9, 55% at age 12, 66% at age 17, and 74% in adulthood. By contrast shared environment explains 33% at age 9, 18% at age 12, 16% at age 17, and 10% in adulthood (Bouchard 2013, figure 2). That leaves unshared environment explaining 26% of the variation at age 9, 27% at age 12, 19% at 17, and 16% in adulthood.
You don’t have to believe these associations are causal, but they are real. They’ve been more or less replicated using studies comparing (1) MZ twins with DZ twins, (2) MZ twins raised apart, (3) unrelated people reared in the same home. Although all of these methods depend of different assumptions, they all converge on the same conclusion: the predictive power of DNA skyrockets from childhood to adulthood while the predictive power of shared environment plummets. The same pattern (known as the Wilson effect) has also been observed for other phenotypes and in other species.
But why? Shouldn’t environment get more important as we age since experience has increasing time to accumulate? One theory is that more and more genes become active as we age. A more popular theory is that we select environments that maximize our genotype, so environment becomes just a magnifier of genes, not a causal force in its own right. So genetically smart people will stay in school and genetically strong people will lift weights and take steroids etc. People invest in where they’re more likely to be rewarded.
But here’s where things get really interesting. The Wilson effect behaves differently on different types of IQ tests. In his book Does your Family make you smarter? James Flynn notes that cognitive inequality increases from childhood to later adulthood (because good genes cause good environments and bad genes cause bad environments, the smart get smarter and the dumb get dumber, relative to the average person their age) but this pattern is much more pronounced on some tests than others.
Flynn describes three types of tests:
- Type 1: Tests that show large family effects (shared environment) that decay slowly. This include tests involving vocabulary (define “rudimentary”), general knowledge (How old is the Earth?) verbal abstraction (how are a brain and a computer the same?) and social comprehension (why do you need a passport to travel?)
- Type 2: Tests that show small family effects that decay fast. These include spatial manipulation (use these two triangles to make a square) and noticing incongruities (what’s missing or absurd in a picture of a common object or scene).
- Type 3: Tests that show that large family effects that decay fast. These tests include clerical speed and arithmetic.
Flynn argues that type 1 tests involve skills that children learn from observing their parents talk, hence the large family effect. By contrast he says of type 2 tests:
Aside from the occasional jigsaw puzzle, they have no part in everyday life. Children never see their parents performing these cognitive tasks as part of normal behavior. Family effects are weak, even among preschoolers. Since these subtests match environment with genetic potential so young, they would be an ideal measure (for, say, 5-year-olds) of genes for intelligence.
From pages 53-54 of Does Your Family Make You Smarter? by James Flynn
In other words, Type 2 tests measure “novel problem solving”, while type 1 tests measure acquired abilities. A more provocative interpretation is type 2 tests measure real intelligence, while type 1 just measure knowledge and experience. This is the age-old distinction between aptitude tests vs achievement tests, culture fair vs culture loaded, fluid vs crystallized.
And yet Flynn largely rejects Cattell-Horn-Carroll’s theory that fluid ability (novel problem solving) is invested to acquire crystallized ability (accumulated knowledge) writing:
…fluid skill is just as heavily influenced by family environment as the most malleable crystallized skill (vocabulary) and therefore, neither skill deserves to be called an investment and the other a dividend.
From page 132 of Does Your Family Make You Smarter? by James Flynn
Flynn of course is referring to the greatest irony in the history of psychometrics and the biggest mistake of Arthur Jensen’s career: the Raven Progressive Matrices (long worshiped by Jensen and Jensenistas as the most culture fair measure of pure intelligence ever invented) is a type 1 test!

But let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. There’s no need to abandon CHC investment theory just because a major test got mischaracterized. But at the same time, it doesn’t feel right to reclassify the Raven as a crystallized test, Research is needed to understand why the Raven is so culturally sensitive when it superficially looks like a measure of novel problem solving. Is it measuring some kind of implicit crystallized knowledge we’re not conscious of like being familiar with patterns, columns and rows and reasoning through the process of elimination, or are the family effects on the non-cognitive part of the test (having the motivation to persist and concentrate on such an abstract task). Flynn argues that the brain is like a muscle, but if so, the Raven is an exercise most have never done before, so why isn’t it a type 2 test?
Flynn might argue that if your family helped you with abstract problems in algebra or had philosophical discussions about hypothetical concepts, you’ve been exercising for the Raven all your life, but this seems like a bit of a stretch. All the research shows that cognitive training has narrow transfer (i.e. practicing chess will only make you slightly better at checkers, and not at all better at scrabble) though perhaps the Raven’s uniquely abstract (general) nature allows it to slightly buck this trend.
Jordan Peterson said that the frontal lobes program the back of the brain. So it does not matter what patterns are manipulated and stored in the back. It matters what patterns exist in the first place. Highly smart people can solve problems even if they have ADD – ADHD. I know a math teacher with an IQ of 140 that has ADD.
You need to separate potential and ability. Crystalized IQ is not about the difficulty of pattern matching. Fluid intelligence is a direct circuit to the frontal lobes.
The circuits between the frontal lobe and the parietal lobe determine the pattern matching mechanism.
the answer is 6. again, you’d have to have AIDS not to get a perfect score on a so-called “fluid IQ test”.
and by 6 i meant 5.
i thought the one labeled 5 was a 6.
i think i need glasses.
or my screen is too small.
You eyes work fine; it’s your brain that’s having trouble
Nah s/he is fine. At first i had to check whether those options were listed by numbers or letters.
5 is a nice number, 6 is better IMO. So the correct option should have been listed as a ‘6’ instead of a ‘5’ 🙂
please come up with an actually difficult ravens.
as far as i can tell in order for a ravens to be difficult it has to be gay.
that is, all legit revens tests are easy for all non-retarded people (who can read a teeny tiny 5 that looks like a 6).
ALL VARIANCE IN SO-CALLED PIQ AMONG NON-RETARDS IS DUE TO:
1. practically insignificant differences in speed, but significant differences in engagement, motivation, etc.
2. mis-scoring of one form or another. when i was at the crawfish festival some guy who claimed to be an optometrist told me i should’ve been able to read the far away sign…but maybe he was selling…my parents never needed glasses except to read (books)…and then only in their 60s.
I can test you on difficult items but not on a public forum that would compromise them (email me)
The original Performance scales (which did not include Matrices) were probably the least dependent on motivation because they were fun entertaining puzzles that only required a few minutes of engagement. Some people are faster at observing spatial relationships than others. Solving a long boring math problem on the SAT seems way more motivation dependent
Other performance items like picture completion or picture arrangement don’t benefit much from extra time. Either you see the answer or you don’t
hey pumpkin sent you email regarding performance items under [redacted by pp, April 6] im interested in seeing if my high score on the ravens transfers to older/different items. hope you respond back through email. interesting post as always.
I didn’t get the email. How long ago did you send it?
Odd not sending pumpkin. I think it’ll be best if you contact me through [redacted by pp, april 6, 2020]
lol pumpkin i thought the ca was a typo i sent you another message.
redact this part and my email please.
i sent you another message pumpkin i thought the ca was a typo.
redact my email please and looking forward to answering the questions.
ill make sure to time myself.
is bernie, was bernie, a fraud or autistic or both…
i see no other alternatives.
where’s my comment about tigers?
rr is being carried by some goombahs and screaming…
…you don’t understand…modus ponens…there are only two truth values…cement mixers are a social construct…
goombahs dump rr head first into a cement mixer…
ldbclasbbcsnc;lnnlkslkammlkmlkmlkzmALKNXNLKASNNCLK…social construct!… akncnaknckasndckasndkcn…modus ponens!…lbadclkasbcbklabc…
sad!
“Using twin studies”
Pseudoscience.
http://logosjournal.com/2015/joseph-twin-research/
https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/06/has-a-new-twin-study-meta-analysis-finally-settled-the-nature-nurture-debate/
“The same pattern (known as the Wilson effect) has also been observed for other phenotypes and in other species.”
This is an artifact of test construction.
“One theory is that more and more genes become active as we age. A more popular theory is that we select environments that maximize our genotype, so environment becomes just a magnifier of genes, not a causal force in its own right.”
(1) is bullshit, (2) is attempting to immunize twin research from falsification (see Joseph et al, 2014; Joseph, 2015).
“cognitive inequality increases from childhood to later adulthood (because good genes cause good environments and bad genes cause bad environments, the smart get smarter and the dumb get dumber, relative to the average person their age) but this pattern is much more pronounced on some tests than others.”
Which genes are “good” and which are “bad”?
“Flynn of course is referring to the greatest irony in the history of psychometrics and the biggest mistake of Arthur Jensen’s career: the Raven Progressive Matrices (long worshiped by Jensen and Jensenistas as the most culture fair measure of pure intelligence ever invented) is a type 1 test!”
Yup. Gottfredson said this too. And the biggest mistake of Jensen’s career was defending Spearman and getting into IQism.
“Research is needed to understand why the Raven is so culturally sensitive when it superficially looks like a measure of novel problem solving.”
So what? See Richardson’s (2002) discussion. The Raven is, in fact, the most culturally biased test of all.
And IQ doesn’t meet the basic requirements of measurement.
Drame and Ferguson (2017) and Dutton et al (2017) also show that there is bias in the Raven’s test in Mali and Sudan. This, of course, is due to the exposure to the types of problems on the items (Richardson, 2002: 291-293). Thus, their cultures do not allow exposure to the items on the test and they will, therefore, score lower in virtue of not being exposed to the items on the test. Richardson (1991) took 10 of the hardest Raven’s items and couched them in familiar terms with familiar, non-geometric, objects. Twenty eleven-year-olds performed way better with the new items than the original ones, even though they used the same exact logic in the problems that Richardson (1991) devised. This, obviously, shows that the Raven is not a “culture-free” measure of inductive and deductive logic.
The Raven is administered in a testing environment, which is a cultural device. They are then handed a paper with black and white figures ordered from left to right. Note that Abel-Kalek and Raven (2006: 171) write that Raven’s items “were transposed to read from right to left following the custom of Arabic writing.” So this is another way that the tests are biased and therefore not “culture-free.”) Richardson (2000: 164) writes that:
Richardson (1991: 83) quotes Keating and Maclean (1987: 243) who argue that tests like the Raven “tap highly formal and specific school skills related to text processing and decontextualized rule application, and are thus the most systematically acculturated tests” (their emphasis). Keating and Maclean (1987: 244) also state that the variation in scores between individuals is due to “the degree of acculturation to the mainstream school skills of Western society” (their emphasis). That’s the thing: all types of testing is biased towards a certain culture in virtue of the kinds of things they are exposed to—not being exposed to the items and structure of the test means that it is in effect biased against certain cultural/social groups.
Davis (2014) studied the Tsimane, a people from Bolivia, on the Raven. Average eleven-year-olds 78 percent or more of the questions correct whereas lower-performing individuals answered 47 percent correct. The eleven-year-old Tsimane, though, only answered 31 percent correct. There was another group of Tsimane who went to school and lived in villages—not living in the rainforest like the other group of Tsimane. They ended up scoring 72 percent correct, compared to the unschooled Tsimane who scored only 31 percent correct. “… the cognitive skills of the Tsimane have developed to master the challenges that their environment places on them, and the Raven’s test simply does not tap into those skills. It’s not a reflection of some kind of true universal intelligence; it just reflects how well they can answer those items” (Heine, 2017: 189). Thus, measures of “intelligence” are not an innate skill, but are learned through experience—what we learn from our environments.
https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2019/10/06/knowledge-culture-logic-and-iq/
“MZ twins reared a part”
Joseph has a recent article on “reared-apart” twins and he goes in depth in his book on twin studies.
https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/02/exploding-twin-study-myth/
I understand the critiques, but there are 3 independent methods of estimating heritability trends from kinship studies and they all converge on the same conclusion.
Can you refresh my memory?
The three methods are:
1) finding the correlation between MZ twins raised apart (the higher the correlation, the higher heritability is thought to be)
2) doubling the DIFFERENCE in correlation between MZ twins raised together and DZ twins raised together (the larger the MZ > DZ correlation gap, the higher the heritability).
3) finding the correlation between non-biological siblings raised in the same home (the LOWER the correlation, the less (shared) environment matters).
All three methods show very large heritabilities in adulthood and/or very low shared environmentality. All three methods might be flawed, but it would be quite the coincidence if they were all flawed in the same direction.
For a more in depth review, see:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23919982
All 3 methods would provide concurrent evidence for the claims however, as Ned Block mentions two populations can have high heritability on a trait and the discrepancies between said populations could be entirely due to environment.
And of course this doesn’t refute the claim the all cognitive ability is experience dependent. But how could ever refute that claim? The prior observation is akin to saying water is wet.
All 3 methods would provide concurrent evidence for the claims however, as Ned Block mentions two populations can have high heritability on a trait and the discrepancies between said populations could be entirely due to environment.
Yes of course. IQ, height, and head size are all examples of traits that are heritable within generations, yet the gap between generations is environmental.
And of course this doesn’t refute the claim the all cognitive ability is experience dependent. But how could ever refute that claim? The prior observation is akin to saying water is wet.
Obviously if your experience is spending the first ten years of your life locked in the trunk of a car, you’re going to score pretty low on ANY IQ test, but such pathological deprivation is rare.
The question is how much of the U.S. population variation in a cognitive ability is caused by variation in psychological experience. For certain tests, shared environment causes virtually none of the variation by age 12. Of course psychological experience could be caused by unshared environment but Jensen argued unshared environment was biological experience like prenatal conditions or getting hit in the head. James Flynn almost seems to imply it’s free will but I might be misinterpreting him.
Experience dependency is more than that. It operates at multiple levels from how genes for cognition express themselves to how synapses form, and subsequently how any knowledge is acquired.
I always assumed unshared environment meant more like free will. It makes sense that family environment plays a small role except in extreme cases, because support from family is indirect. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. I could be a rich CEO of a multi-billion dollar industry and could give all my chicken a few million each but how they use that money is entirely up to them.
I think that’s the same reason SES has little impact on the B-W IQ gap.
Experience dependency is more than that. It operates at multiple levels from how genes for cognition express themselves to how synapses form, and subsequently how any knowledge is acquired.
Well I’m trying to narrow the discussion to just psychological experience: cultural experience.
I always assumed unshared environment meant more like free will. It makes sense that family environment plays a small role except in extreme cases, because support from family is indirect. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
Except shared environment has a huge impact on vocabulary, general knowledge, social comprehension, and verbal abstract reasoning at age 12. It’s only the subtests that involve novel problem solving that show virtually no shared environment effects. Novel problem solving by definition means tasks you’ve never experienced, so it makes sense that at least shared experience explains none of the variation.
Which it of course also operates on the cultural level.
Well yes, I was referring to the variance of “novel problem solving”. Doesn’t the higher g loading of verbal sub tests imply that it is closer to what we refer to as general intelligence? Similarly, fluid reasoning isn’t really independent of experience. No cognitive ability is.
Also this is is a good post. Keep it up.
Also this is is a good post. Keep it up.
Glad you liked it
Richardson (1991) took 10 of the hardest Raven’s items and couched them in familiar terms with familiar, non-geometric, objects. Twenty eleven-year-olds performed way better with the new items than the original ones, even though they used the same exact logic in the problems that Richardson (1991) devised.
I would really love to know exactly how Richardson changed these items. This could be a very useful advance for cross-cultural psychometrics. But I see two potential problems:
1) if the 11-year-olds took richardson’s version after the normal version, they may have had a practice effect.
2) Let’s say Sudanese kids did improve their scores by say 20 IQ points. The problem is if the reference population (british whites) also show a 20 point improvement on Richardson’s version, then the IQ gap remains the same.
Here’s the article. (He gives an example.) Pretty damn good way to check for this, though I’m not aware of any validation and small n, it is suggestive.
https://sci-hub.tw/10.1111/j.2044-8279.1991.tb00969.x
Excellent paper! It’s inspiring to see such innovative research. So many clever psychologists.
A forth method would be the correlation of adopted children to their biological parents I guess (For IQ files record or direct access)
excellent point Bruno!
By subtracting this correlation (adopted to bio parents) from the average correlation, you would get the average of shared environment component.
PP, (1) and (2) fall prey to the normal CTM critiques. Does Bouchard show (3) in any of his studies?
Bruno and PP,
Interpretations of mother-child IQ correlations presuppose addictive/independent genetic effects and genes and environment working alone, when GxE invalidates the assumptions. (See Richardson and Norgate, 2005, A Critical Analysis of IQ Studies of Adopted Children).
PP, (1) and (2) fall prey to the normal CTM critiques.
The Classical Twin Method refers only to (2). People have criticized the Equal Environment Assumption but that critique have been debunked at least in one study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8476388
Does Bouchard show (3) in any of his studies?
yes, he cites 5 studies correlating unrelated siblings in adulthood. Four of the studies give a correlation around zero and one gives a correlation of 0.19. On average this is very close to the 0.10 shared environment effect found by twin studies. So all three methods (MZ raised apart, MZ vs DZ, and unrelated siblings) agree that shared environment explains only around 10% of the variation in adulthood.
Interpretations of mother-child IQ correlations presuppose addictive/independent genetic effects and genes and environment working alone, when GxE invalidates the assumptions. (See Richardson and Norgate, 2005, A Critical Analysis of IQ Studies of Adopted Children).
I agree the studies don’t prove independent genetic effects. Mug of Pee argues that could be proved through cross-cultural kinship studies. There is one massive classical twin study where the twins are sampled across several continents, but all Western democracies unfortunately.
Twin and adoption studies attempt to show causal primacy for traits. How is it possible to partition traits into intrinsic and extrinsic variables, when they interact? Interactivity invalidates these assumptions.
True or false: Heritability estimates illuminate the development of traits in individuals.
Bruno and PP,
Interpretations of mother-child IQ correlations presuppose addictive/independent genetic effects and genes and environment working alone, when GxE invalidates the assumptions. (See Richardson and Norgate, 2005, A Critical Analysis of IQ Studies of Adopted Children).
—->
In the case I describe i don’t think it does RR.
For example, what happens in the wound, even if it were not « genes » and were environmental, and had a big non additive effect on genes (enhancing or stopping a trait), is not by definition shared environnement, because each baby will have its own experience (mum sad, working or not, doing sport, drinking, having an infection or taking a vaccine or drugs, amount of stress etc)
So the difference between the two (adopted kid with his bio mum versus standard case) gives you the shared environnement whether those non additive aspects would be « genes » or « non shared environnement » because they are packed together in this case. The only difference between those cases is that one has no shared environnement corrélation (while having the unshared wich is a lot of things)
So this critics works for environement/genes in general and as for shared environment it works for 1 and 2 but not for 3 and 4.
“People have criticized the Equal Environment Assumption but that critique have been debunked at least in one study:”
There are two truth values—true and false—and so the EEA is either true or false, and it’s false.
Kendler et al argue What Joseph calls ‘Argument B’—the trait-relevant assumption that MZs and DZs environments are equally correlated for the trait in question. But the onus is on the twin researcher to show this.
“On average this is very close to the 0.10 shared environment effect found by twin studies. So all three methods (MZ raised apart, MZ vs DZ, and unrelated siblings) agree that shared environment explains only around 10% of the variation in adulthood.”
Since the EEA is false, h2=c2.
“So this critics works for environement/genes in general and as for shared environment it works for 1 and 2 but not for 3 and 4.”
It definitely works for (4) since that’s what adoption correlations mostly rely on—the mother-child IQ correlation.
Kendler et al argue What Joseph calls ‘Argument B’—the trait-relevant assumption that MZs and DZs environments are equally correlated for the trait in question. But the onus is on the twin researcher to show this.
Well it has been shown for at least one psychological phenotype: mental illness. It’s not much of a stretch to think it’s also true for IQ.
“Mental illnesses” aren’t biological. See Szasz. And the it doesn’t hold for schiz, see Fosse, Joseph, and Richardson (2015), A Critical Assessment of the Equal-Environment Assumption of the Twin Method for Schizophrenia.
They can be as critical of the EEA as they want, but unless they can show that perceived zygosity is more predictive than actual zygosity, they haven’t falsified it
Look: the original EEA argument is false—Kendler, Bouchard, and others agree that MZs experience more similar environments than DZs. Twin researchers then, instead of abandoning twin researchers, redefined the EEA—what Joseph calls Argument A and Argument B.
Argument A states that twins create or elicit similar environments due to their genetic similarity (circular) and Argument B states that while critics are right that MZs experience more similar environments than DZs, the onus is on the critics to identify trait-relevant environments for the trait in question. But the twin researchers themselves need to identify the trait-relevant enviromments.
You recognize that MZs experience more similar environments than DZs, yes? If so, which of the arguments identified by Joseph do you take to?
Zygosity was addressed by Fosse, Joseph and Richardson:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4411885/
my sexiness needs to be balanced against pill’s and rr’s extreme un-sexiness
NO!
you fucking retarded afro-albanian wannabe guido…
there as as many truth values as beard lengths.
“as many truth values as beard lengths.”
Can drugs trigger schizophrenia?
Also, why is Bouchard hiding data? Joseph writes about his asking for the correlations for the other test administered but Bouchard won’t provide the data—what is he hiding?
“Can drugs trigger schizophrenia?”
I believe so. You should read Jay Joseph’s book on schizophrenia.
what test did he not report on?
Here’s Richardson’s discussion from Genes, Brains, and Human Potential:
“Results Are Not Fully Reported
Finally, the experimental results have been partially and selectively reported. For example, of two IQ tests administered in the MISTRA, results have been published for one but not the other. No explanation is given for that omission. Could it be that they produced different results?
Moreover, the MISTRA sample included DZAs, and the investigators have acknowledged that comparison of MZA with DZA correlations would be an important control. But they have seemingly refused to publish such comparisons. In addition, they have restricted access to data by critical investigators like Jay Joseph, which constitutes a breach of a crucial condition of scientific research. Could it be that correlations for DZAs are unexpectedly high—perhaps even as high as those for MZAs—suggesting other imperfections of sampling or that there really is no difference? Indeed, in the partial reports published to date, with incomplete numbers, the latter does appear to be the case.19
What is remarkable is that these studies have been published, and their conclusions reiterated, in highly esteemed journals, in full knowledge of the profound message thereby conveyed to psychologists, teachers, parents, a sensationalizing mass media, members of the general public, and policy makers. That the situation has not changed much since then is shown by Jay Joseph’s recent analyses.20 There seems little doubt that studies of “separated” twins are universally—and probably intrinsically—flawed.”
That doesn’t make any sense. They need to redo the measurements on ravens matrices. Perhaps the type 1 nature is related to its being a repetitive test. The subjects learn the test as they go. Whereas other iq tests change the nature of the problems, ie verbal, arithmetic, spacial, at each question, ravens are basically the same type of problem over and over.
But I think one reason environment goes down and genetics increases is that we share more environment as we age. Think of “environment” as synonymous with “experience.” At nine one person may not have had as many experiences as another with a high probability since neither has been alive that long. By thirty we have all had most experiences, other than perhaps a few freak things. Add to this the idea that genes create their environment and seek out the experiences which satisfy them, and genes are the only differentiator after a certain point.
I actually found this as I aged. My prep school background was a big advantage up to a point, say early to mid college, but as life transferred into the practical world, I fell off to mediocre, lol.
That doesn’t make any sense. They need to redo the measurements on ravens matrices. Perhaps the type 1 nature is related to its being a repetitive test. The subjects learn the test as they go.
But type 1 implies family effects which typically means you ENTER the testing room with relevant experience which is very different from learning within the testing process (which sound more like type 2 on the spot reasoning).
But I think one reason environment goes down and genetics increases is that we share more environment as we age. Think of “environment” as synonymous with “experience.” At nine one person may not have had as many experiences as another with a high probability since neither has been alive that long. By thirty we have all had most experiences, other than perhaps a few freak things.
Yes, cultural experience may have diminishing returns.
There is a subtle difference between ravens and type 2 I suspect. Type 2 allows for changes of task, whereas ravens seems more like a skill one is perfecting at the moment. Still I’m not sure why this would be type 1, but maybe it’s connected to the sort of subject learning one encounters in school, a persistent mastery of a subject matter. It strikes me as strange too, of course
After reading the paper RR provided I think it has something to do with the brain not having evolved to solve irrelevant problems, since by definition, they’re not relevant, so doing so is an acquired skill.
Research is needed to understand why the Raven is so culturally sensitive when it superficially looks like a measure of novel problem solving.
You sort of hinted at this but maybe its because most of the arrays up until the very hardest ones follow a similar pattern, just with different shapes, so it’s more of a systematizing test than a working memory one. So you’d expect people in ASD-leaning countries to do better than people in SCZ ones.
So does it hold?
Not really. There’s a lot of variance in national Ravens scores, at least from what I’ve seen.
When are you doing that podcast?
Whenever I have time. With this virus shit getting worse and worse I’m working as much as possible. I want to make time to do it soon.
That would explain why practicing Raven items would improve Raven scores, but few families practice it, so that doesn’t explain why the test shows family effects comparable to totally culture loaded tests like vocabulary.
“but few families practice it”
Because it’s due to other things in the household. Richardson’s discussion in What IQ Tests Test is apt.
richardson and you both have AIDS.
peepee has AIDS and rabies. the effect of shared environment is negligible for ALL tests.
there is never a shared environment because whatever the environment its effect depends on the genome. in other words, the same environment is not the same environment.
i think GxE is still over flammable beard man’s and black bull dyke’s heads.
Even if shared environmental effects were 100% genome dependent (and they’re not) they’d still be an important source of variance. You just wouldn’t be able to rank shared environments by obvious metrics like SES.
You simply don’t have the working memory to juggle complex concepts because digit span (pre-practice) was your lowest score & made lower (for your age) by alcohol
I’m sure PP has read it but here’s a article with Raven scores by country: http://iapsych.com/iqmr/fe/LinkedDocuments/brouwers2009.pdf
Lots of outliers, which suggests importance of shared environment. And the time series is pretty broad, so it might imply that Ravens is particularly vulnerable to Flynn.
This is my favorite article of yours in a while.
Thank you. Since you liked the article you should read Flynn’s book “does your family make you smarter?” and perhaps write a guest article reviewing it.
Sure when I find the time. I read Are We Getting Smarter? by Flynn a while back. Going to read his race, IQ and Jensen book soon too.
Yesterday I wu tanged a blunt in front of 5 black kids and a white girl. Straight from the hood.
Anyways they filmed me doing it so I guess I’ll post it if I get the footage.
Wow, a mutiple choice test with eight choices! They’re not ******* around. Pure random answering will only net 12% here.
people who have sight issues prior to old age are inferior.
legit issues everyone has are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyopia
and…is there a name for it?
supposedly people have more trouble seeing under dim light as the get older.
If any of u dont know what wu tanging is its when you hit a blunt and then swallow it, as it’s lit. A quick google search would verify how popular or common the slang term is.
Anyways, I guess this verifies that I’ve got balls of steel.
I grew up Wu-Tanging it. Best way to not catch a charge. It’s saved my ass a couple times.
Clearly you are the most Ballsy commenter.
If that’s a compliment, MeLo, thank you. If not, I’ll try harder. Gotta respect any body who’ll wu tang to avoid a charge.
It was more satirical than sarcastic but not in way that was meant to insult you but more like I’m just playing along with the joke. I understand tone is hard to convey over text.
That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
Why was my response to Slushfundpuppie not posted. I gave him or her an award in science, the pentultimate (5th best) subject in history (surprisingly another subject to talk about), a mighty accomplishment.
(Its a joke, Pumpkin. Just post it instead of being a foolish prick.)
didn’t mean to be a prick but with the huge volume of comments coming in, i have to make split second decisions on what to post and what not to.
I know. You’re good. I over exaggerate and use extreme examples and language to display my emotions to others correctly. Sorry if it was harsh.
Happy that your blog is thriving. Expressing yourself in the golden age of information is a blessing.
We exemplify peak intelligence.
Wtf are you banning everything I say for?!
Because all your comments have been off-topic and disgusting.
Philo reminds of those neo-nazi subreddits that yell “nigger” all day long and then act oppressed when their sub gets quarantined.
looking at 10-K for IVR. at most 40% in non-agency mortgages. the fed has been supporting agency MBSs and as a whole they’re higher than they were in february, yet IVR has lost 88% of its value ytd.
if its book value had fallen by as much then given its leverage of 7.6x, by my calculations this means its non-agency holdings (for which there really isn’t a market right now) have fallen by at least 29%.
but its book value hasn’t fallen so much because it’s got a lot of preferreds.
29% fall in value of mortgages given rates lower than ever is only possible if total default, rather than a few missed payments, is expected for at least 29% of these non-agency mortgages.
historically this would only be possible if great depression expected to follow end of chinese bat flu. (the first SARS lasted from nov 2002 to early july 2003.) seems very unlikely.
the point is…if chris langan put his supposedly immense brain power to work in picking which mREITs will survive and which will go to zero he’d be very rich in short order.
whether mREITs have any sophisticates idk, but afaik the whole mortgage space is the most complicated and subtle of all investments spaces.
I used to badger Prometheans all the time with questions about why they weren’t rich, and finally the smartest one said:
“To be brutally honest, I could play. I could win. And I know it so completely, that it doesn’t even interest me”
you can see here how the extraction has begun.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/50-billion-losses-no-one-171258496.html
retail has no access, but it can buy underleveraged/low gear funds like PCI, DMO, SEMPX. and make a maybe 33% return in a few months after which nothing great, just back to normal.
you can see here how bill gates is dumb. and buffett repeats what i’ve said.
“but the govt bond market is fake because central banks”…
obviously fucktards!
you’d have to be dumb or autistic to think a centibillionaire is dumb.
But I don’t think you think it; you just have no impulse control so you just say whatever feels good in the moment to say, and then contradict yourself the next day.
Dumb, no.
Dumb for a centbiliionaire, yes.
Psychopath, yes.
One trick pony, yes.
Bill Gates ruined Africa’s environment by giving Africans bug nets. They used it as fishing nets when they’re supposed to be used for malarial protection. It polluted the water and decreased the fish population.
He also tests dangerous contraceptives on Indians and Africans.
All self-made multi-billionaires are at least two trick ponies because they have a special talent, combined with enough business savvy to profit from it
you can also see how buffett and munger are retarded.
buffet says, “i could not have conceived of a world…blah, blah, blah”
is he retarded?
the “blah, blah, blah” is EXACTLY what’s been happening in japan for 25 years!
so maybe it’s old guys who grew up in a time when japan was ridiculous.
even rich white autists can be extremely racist! and not even know it!
my dad told me it used to be that “made in japan” was a synonym for “piece of shit”.
but now “made in japan” generally means “even higher quality than ‘made in germany'”.
i remember gordon moore on Charlie Rose.
he said gates dimissed what intel did as “bake sand”.
harsh?
no!
i heard gates on Charlie Rose talking about how for the first time he was learning how ICs were made…while running on a treadmill.
the point is:
1. the smartest rich people in terms of IQ are…unfortunately…investments funds managers.
2. the rest are just following the path of least resistance. they have the very good fortune that what they like doing also makes bank.
anyway, dylan ratigan is a half-kike faggot.
but mugabe always makes a point of taking in the most extreme POVs. he seeks them out.
The smartest are probably in high tech: Bill Gates and Paul Allen both supposedly scored at or near the one in a million level on the old SAT. Balmer was even better at math than Gates.
Ballmer said at Putnam math competition he was second in his Harvard dormitory college and 57th in the competition. Gates was 10th in the dorm and 95th in the competition.
Something happened in 1985 when Harvard started to have very great teams. And in the 2000´ MIT started to have the most students in the top 5 (almost only East Asians and Indian for MIT).
Since 2005, the top candidates are 50% MIT, 25% Harvard and 25% all the rest. But Harvard get the highest average score for its teams generally.
There is an extreme dominance of East Asians (Korean, Chinese and Japanese) and some Indian and Jews, very few whites.
But the problems are much more knowledge and proof-reading intensive than Math Olympiad . So less g loaded.
(many Putnam winners are also on the american team for math Olympiad with an average score around 30/42, that gives a gold Medal)
I ve been doing 4 problems of the 1973 Putnam competition this afternoon to entertain myself .
and there’s a totally non-racial explanation…
namely…
japan’s working age population (and workforce) reached a peak…
20 years ago!
and this is happening to italy and germany and etc.
IT’S THE DEMOGRAPHY STUPID!
but it IS interesting…
there are actually quite a few japs who look like italians, albeit weird italians…
as i’ve said before…
there are some jap girl KOs…almost ingrid quality…
there are no ne asian KOs who aren’t japs…
Japan is zombiefied because resources are going to actors who just hoard them and put them into j-bonds. They should tax the corporations much more.
There is a demographic problem but its over exaggerated.
yes pillbo baggins.
i’m NOT claiming japan needs to be the way it is. not at all.
i’m just claiming the TREND is very clear.
all developed countries are turning japanese, being japanified.
and there are many reasons/explanations for this, all of which require:
1. govt incompetence
2. because democracy = plutocracy
3. because bullshit economics, stupid theories made up by autists and psychopaths.
Pumpkin, among Hispanics, do the English speaking Hispanics not have lower verbal than performance iq as they age?
Adult Hispanics score about 4 points better on the verbal comprehension index compared with the perceptual reasoning index, but that could be because English is their second language
Wait, 4 points higher on VIQ or PIQ?
On VIQ
But how, if English was their second language, wouldn’t VIQ be underestimated?
“Hispanics” aren’t a race; they’re a racialized linguistic group.
https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2018/04/22/latinos-brazilians-mixed-race-individuals-and-race-concepts/
interviewer: wadya think of moolies?
rr: richardson…spencer…philosophy of race…social race…beards are cool…hispanics are like arabs, they’re a racialized linguistic group…
interviewer: take this albainian piece of shit outside. chop him up. and put him in the cement mixer.
Also, does the average bilingual score higher on picture concepts than on similarities? Has it been proven?
In a South African study of bilinguals I noticed a small advantage on picture concepts over sim
But South African bilinguals I’m assuming are different from American bilinguals. Also, don’t Hispanics have higher PIQs, since english skills would be depressed since they don’t speak it as much. Isn’t viq underestimated in Hispanics.
If they’re like South African bilinguals their verbal is probably underestimated
i used “otaku”, because i couldn’t remember “weebo”. i’m not a weebo.
i admire some aspects of japanese culture but no more than the average american.
sumo is fascinating because it is so extreme and so simple.
and the people you might see at walmart or the dmv…these aren’t actually sumo body types, which are unique to sumo…
that is, sumos’ fat is mostly on the surface and they have enormous muscle mass, especially in the lower body…this explains why type ii diabetes is rare among sumos…
I always think of Dr Andrew Weil as healthy fat. His fat comes from salmon’s omega 3 fatty acid & olive oil on pasta
his beard makes him look fatter.
the evidence is…i’ve posted it on rr’s blog…
1. semi-fat people over the age of 50 have the lowest mortality, BUT…
2. only because semi-fat people also have more lean mass…
so retards like rr will say, “so the more lean mass the better. i’m doin’ ‘roids.”
NO!
this is why sumos and bodybuilders are short-lived.
the point is to have the same muscle mass you had as you get older…not to have more than you had.
you can see this with street shitters.
street hitters who look thin are actually much fatter than nw europeans who look fat…
hence the 15x higher rate of type ii diabetes among american street shitters.
What’re you talking about?
Pumpkin, aren’t Hispanic VIQs underestimated anyway, since if you have less exposure to english, your English skills will be lower than in would if you did predominantly speak English.
That’s what common sense would suggest
Would your verbal reasoning abilities also not be fully expressed? At least does experience and common sense show that?
i remember krugman on Charlie Rose in 2003 maybe saying how the US was turning into japan…
but i believe the US is very different from all other developed countries in terms of much more heterogeneous shitholer country ALREADY…
and IN FACT US rates were until recently the highest in the developed world.
but my guess is all of this is ultimately driven by demography qua borth rates and age structure rather than racial composition and now mugabe recommends buying government bonds from shithole countries like brazil and turkey…on margin of course…because they’re gonna go to zero…
i imagine the government bond market is like when you hear that beep beep beep and then hear beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
flat line.
QE is UBI for rich people.
why for rich people?
because poor people have no power.
so they don’t “need” UBI.
QE and less than zero long term interest rates…
are ultimately caused by the same thing that makes UBI a necessity.
“technological/automation unemployment” was formerly taken up by government empolyment and perversions…
Technology/demography is a total canard. That’s a Peterson institute crappy talking point. It’s not relevant for another 50 years. Look at the gini . They need to go back to tax rates before Reagan and Thatcher and the government should be way more active. Countries never became rich with free market economics.
agreed, that’s total gaslighting at a time when lots of jobs have been shipped to cheap labor colonies, immigrants have flooded the west for the koch bros and wymyn have entered the workforce
there’s no separating economics and politics.
autusitic people imagine they can be separated because autistic.
Funny story (which I’ve told here but wouldnt mind repeating again) actually.
I took a Ravens for a gifted program offered at my school district. I didnt qualify the first time around, scoring well below the cut off necessary to get in.
However, my slave master parents bought me a ton of Ravens test question books, made me do them every night before I went to sleep (or ya know, multiple times a day) and helped me get into said gifted program, shattering the cut off necessary to get in.
Thus, I had one of the educations possible in my city, way better than even some private schools.
Anyways, this was in California so it was a very crazy politically-enhanced time period, especially for education.
Played a very important role in who I am today.
In the gifted program I met many bright minds but was always seen as the gifted one, either socially, intellectually, or otherwise. That is where I gained my enormous ego.
I did mediocre in school but was always touted for greatness. That is my ultimate gift in life.
I bet Animekitty will appreciate this post, haha.
I like books with pictures. It is what inspired me to search for the meaning of life and the pursuit of science. My cultural IQ is really high. I keep valuable information in my head that most do not know. People ask me how I know such things that should be unknowable. It is because I am creative. I connect the dots and make sense of such connections.
Being creative has some downsides. I like to find the most elegant solutions. But I am not a human calculator. So I drop out of most things I involve myself in.
Jordan Peterson says creative people find it hard to get work because their ideas are not marketable. To different for business environments. That is how I am. Creative ideas do not make money for a business. Creative people have too many ideas.
I get ideas from everywhere I go.
I think about how things work / could work.
I was a 90s kid. There were so many cool things in that time period.
I did have a gifted IQ so I was in gifted programs. But it really wasn’t what I was meant for. (I was too uniquely creative)
Honestly no offence but there is nothing in tour commentary that says to me you are a shining star.
Well to others, that is my great gift! I conform and fit a certain role that others appreciate in me…
I don’t necessarily have to be good at anything but it would help if I was.
Hope you post my comments, Pumpkin! I’m counting on you…
A lot of new games coming out recently. It’s great that theres one part of the economy still expanding.
Anime, my favorite Nick cartoons were Rugrats, Hey Arnold!, Catdog, Rockos Modern Life, and early Spongebob.
I do agree the late 90s and early 2000s were the golden age for creativity. Unfortunately, the decline has been steep.
Creativity peaks at different parts of life. I’m sure the writers were going through their creative peak during that time period.