The Wonderlic is a 50 question test. Although most people find many of the questions easy, you only get 12 minutes which makes getting a perfect 50/50 almost impossible.
To my surprise, the Wonderlic correlated 0.9+ with the big kahuna of IQ tests, the WAIS, in a general population sample, which is really quite incredible for such a short test. In fact it seems too high to be true (maybe it’s an outlier; another study found a much lower correlation among the mentally ill, though the old WAIS was especially good at penalizing the kind of mental illness we find in my comment section ).
I recently cited data from page 6 of this article from no later than the 1970s, suggesting white Americans average 23.32 (SD = 7.5) on the Wonderlic Personnel Test (WPT).
However I worried that the average today might be much higher because of the Flynn effect.
However a 2006 study of production worker applicants found the white mean to be 21.81 (SD = 6.0). This convinced me that scores have not been going up on the Wonderlic in the general population (maybe they’re making the test harder to negate any Flynn effect?). I don’t think they’ve been going down either, but white production workers might be less intelligent than the general white population.
Thus I endorse the following formula for converting Wonderlic scores into IQ (U.S. white norms):
IQ (U.S. white norms) = [(wonderlic score – 23.32)/7.5][15] + 100
For those who prefer general U.S. norms I endorse the following formula:
IQ (U.S. norms) = [(wonderlic score – 21.75)/7.6][15] + 100
The second formula is based on a recent academic paper which states:
The average for working adults in the United States is 21.75, with a standard deviation of 7.6 (Wonderlic, 2000)
Some research suggests WPT scores should be adjusted for age in the following way before converting to IQ:
age 16 to 29: Add 0 points to your raw WPT score
age 30-39: Add 1 point
age 40-49: Add 2 points
age 50-54: Add 3 points
age 55-59: Add 4 points
Age 60+: Add 5 points
If you’re well over 60 you’re probably not taking the Wonderlic anyway, but you can extrapolate how many bonus points to add.
Of course some may question whether people taking the WPT are truly representative of Americans or white Americans. I would argue that they’re close enough. Yes, the sample excludes unemployed people who tend to have lower IQs but it also excludes students and rich people who tend to have high IQs, so it perhaps cancels out. And even gold standard IQ tests like the WAIS do not have perfectly representative samples since they exclude the institutionalized and those with psychiatric or substance abuse problems from their norms.
Though the WPT sampling bias might skew the results when estimating the scores of marginalized subgroups where unemployment is high.
In Washington Post : « Fitzpatrick completed the 50-question, 12-minute exam in nine minutes. The scores are not released publicly, but many — especially the better ones — have leaked out over the years. ». He got a perfect 50. The only person in the NFL.
John Urschel who got a 43 got, after retirement, a PhD in Math from MIT with highest honors (black guy).
https://247sports.com/college/south-carolina/Board/44/Contents/ITT-Wonderlic-scores-from-2014-draftees-28636002/
Another black guy Benjamin Watson got a 48. He seems to be a very wise and/but very religious type. The test play an important role in discriminating more against blacks who score under 10, keeping almost only the 15-25 blacks. I believe the black people are the only reason why NFL keeps the test. They want their field players – for whatever managerial reason – to be around 100 IQ despite having 75% black people.
John Urschel is a halfbreed.
Yes he is. Impressive nonetheless.
I’ve read that a lot players have someone take it for them, or they dont really try that hard. The correlation between IQ and football success is so low that low IQ players don’t see much point in trying at all. And I haven’t seen any evidence NFL teams care much.
Even Michael Vick (one of my favorite players but doesn’t strike me as being that bright) scored 20 somehow. So I’m skeptical of some of the published scores.
Of course I know Vick is retired, but he was awesome back in his Atlanta days.
Football requires a lot of quick thinking, giving quarterbacks only seconds to react to the defense and requiring them to make accurate decisions on the spot. No surprise that Vick would score fairly high for a black man seeing as though he had the ability to make quick judgment in every play, whether it was run or pass.
…an inquest held on 6 September[64] ruled that she died as a result of accidental drowning in a bathtub due to sedation by alcohol intoxication.
The appearance to me is that the NFL uses the Wonderlic to get an idea of what kind of person a particular prospect is. You just relate to and supervise someone with a score of 10 differently than someone with a score of 40.
There is no certain correlation between IQ or the Wonderlic and performance in any position. Quartertback usually have pretty high scores but even so Hall of Fame quarterbacks Terry Bradshaw, Dan Marino and Jim Kelly all had Wonderlic scores in teens, indicating an IQ below 100.
I bet I would’ve made a good quarterback. I’m well-suited for it both physically and mentally, except for poor heat tolerance.
Shame I didn’t grow to 6’6″ like the pediatrician’s growth chart predicted. Instead I stopped at a slightly above-average 5’11”.
Are the online wonderlic tests accurate, the ones that give you the percent of questions you got right as compared to the average?
Short forms are almost never as accurate, but if it’s made by the wonderlic company it should be approximately accurate
If you have low processing speed, doesn’t that deflate the score?
Processing speed is part of intelligence so it should affect one’s score. In extreme cases, it might invalidate the score though
Puppy how come you never talk about IQ testing for celebrities only people nobody cares about?
I’ve talked about lots of celebs
You only talk about celebs you like or people that don’t even qualify as celebs to most people. You should do an IQ estimate of people like Drake or Kanye. Really put the cat among the pigeons with single digit guesses.
Watchu talking about. He’s done Kanye.
Santo most people consider homosexuality to be immoral. So why do you keep defending this lifestyle?
Most people have low IQs, so who cares, right?
Gays are aberrant, so wouldn’t most people have it right to find it repugnant on purely biological grounds, though given a moral implication (which I find irrelevant)?
Thats called sophistry puppy.
Debunking your sophistry. What most people think about gays is irrelevant. Most people deny evolution.
Pill, you’re not philosopher just because you read philosophical texts or because you are a thinker, read: a lazy and primitive one. Since one decade you hasn’t been capable to have any genuine philosophical insight here. It’s just a waste of time try to debate with a loser as you. Unfortunately, because you are severely anachronic you can’t perceive how repetive and wrong you are. If you have any self-awareness you will at least try to change this disk side. I beat your proto-arguments with closed eyes.
Pill, sex itself is grotesque. Stop to watch playboy girls having sex with handsome men and figure out the reality where most people are not that good looking and it’s not romantic.
Pill, avg people are descendents from slave-like people. Do you really think their opinions deserve absolute considerations* I don’t think they no have the right to dislike homossexuality, but everyone must have the duty to respect people even when they have a ONE identity they dislike and this identity is not totally morally wrong.
Hunt nonhuman animals by sports is something i can classify as ”absolutely imoral cultural identity”.
Two beautiful men having romantic sex is on pair with a heterossexual couple. it’s the pure aesthetical value what mean in the end and most people no have this trick to aesthetical consciousness.
Geniuses are aberrant too. I bet most geniuses suffer severe discrimination in society. The exceptional is the contrary of avg joey.
The most incredibly irritant thing for a smart person as me is to have the best argument ever and these junky people simply ignore my statements. A truly wiser people always pay attention to the best arguments in combination with moral and intellectual truth.
Humans are the most individual beings, so in the end of day, everyone is aberrant in some thing if compared to the avg.
This still doesn’t explain why something seen as immoral like homosexuality should be condoned and even lesser does it support that these acts should be practised. You can’t keep calling people ‘losers’ who don’t agree with these sickening acts of debauchery. For example, a paedophile or someone that engages in necrophilia or bestiality could say all the same things you said to me above.
Anal sex is not natural. I’m sorry, it just isnt. And doo doo doesn’t count as lube.
Why didnt santo reply? Did you ban his response?
no
Thanks for the Wonderlic posts! Knowing approximations of NFL IQs makes watching the games more interesting, IMO.
[redacted by pp Jan 22, 2019]
the average IQ of various positions is exactly the same as how white those positions are.
drrr!
Gay Mug of Pee pretending to know about sports.
LOL!
so i’m a gay homophobe?
Are you know you’re becoming more irrelevant over time* Or still not*
5 years ago you was a proto-celebrity here, a pretend to be genius, now most people know you’re a charlatan, a typical extremely arrogant, pedantic and always a wrong thinker.
^^^^ LOL
peepee should do a post on wisdom teeth and class.
You don’t have wisdom or class.
Or teeth…
Oh snap!
Is it me or is this test extremely easy, I mean far easier than most IQ tests. Scored a 49/50 with 30 seconds to spare while in a half baked mood. Maybe I should have a made full use of my time and gone for a perfect score. Don’t mean to brag but this can’t be indicative of IQ tests or one’s full scale intelligence…? Something tells me that Engineers might be at a distinct advantage with these sort of tests. I remember many similarly structured questions back in my Uni days.
From what I hear it’s extremely hard to get even an almost perfect score. Here’s a comment I found on another forum:
I once worked for a company that decided to administer the Wonderlic test to all of its 50,000 salaried employees. After scoring only 44 of 50, I got a letter from the company saying that it had administered the test to IBM, AT&T, Procter & Gamble and many other Fortune 100 firms, and nobody beat or equaled that score.
Well that sounds a little unbelieveable to be honest. I mean, I’m quite happy to just accept the implied compliment but I can’t help but feel this was way too easy. Now, I did a practice sample test online and I’m assuming the questions are very similar to the actual test. It could just be that the short duration of the test left me a lot less mentally taxed than an actual IQ test would. Also this kind of confirms my other results, but I still felt that the questions were extremely easy to answer. There was only one question that stumped me a little so in order to make sure I wouldn’t run out of time I moved on and answered with a best guess. If I was allowed to review that answer at the end with my 30 seconds to spare(apparently answers are final and one cannot move back) I probably would have figured that one out too.
IMO, this test is heavily loaded on speed and though that is an important component of general intelligence I don’t think it’s the most important one. I think when it matters depth and breadth of problem solving is far more important. After all most profound breakthroughs are done on that level. You can train a chimp to do a simple task very quickly however it takes substantive intellect to solve the big problems.
As for the number of people that get a perfect score, apparently only one person in the NFL has ever gotten a perfect score(Pat McInally) while Fitzpatrick got a 48 not a 50 as reported above. In any case I seriously doubt that there aren’t more perfect scores. I think that a perfect score maxes out at 145 tbh. I don’t think the ceiling of this test is much more than that. Of course I’m not an expert, I’m going by feel, I could be wrong.
Interestingly though some anecdotal evidence to support the claims made by the test designers, about 23,000 players have ever played in the NFL meaning that assuming that they all took the test and only one person scored a perfect score this implies that the test has a ceiling of around 159.
It’s generally accepted that Wonderlic converts to IQ by 2* Wonderlic +100
+60
Oops, Bruno is correct. 2*Wonderlic + 60.
Was the wonderlic you took completely multiple choice?
Billy
I took the test on the following site: https://wonderlictestsample.com/
Yes all the questions were multiple choice.
Also I did not use pen and paper. I did all my calculations mentally. I realize now that pen and paper might have made it a little easier particularly with a noticeable reduction in my short term memory over the years.
Edit: When I took the test at the beginning of 2017, the average user scored 43.82% on that website. Now its over 50 percent. The test definitely seemed easier this time round…..
Oh, you didn’t take an official one? I ask because the Mensa wonderlic is only partially multiple choice. I’ve taken the test on that site before and scored much higher than I did on the actual test.
Right, I thought that maybe the online one is not accurately representative of the actual test though these websites seem pretty legitimate. There’s a lot of them online. It’s possible that I might score less on the actual test under test conditions though I don’t think it would be much less if I’m properly motivated for it.
I’ve seen another website where the test they provide is not entirely multiple choice and in some instances asked for multiple right answers.
The online test that is fully multiple-choice will be much harder because unlike going back and checking your answers on a written exam, there is no room for error in taking the online version. What happens is that you essentially get penalized for guessing unlike a written exam where you can return back and answer the questions that you think you had the potential of getting wrong. However, on the online version, because it is timed and you cannot go back and change/guess on questions in the past, you must be more confident in what you’re answering every time.
LOADED
Indeed, those were my thoughts as well(as I had noted above) however i thought that for the sake of playing devil’s advocate and keeping my ego in check I would factor in the possibility that the online test might be easier than the real one and that actual test conditions might effect my performance. Though I have spent a lot of time over the years figuring out how to get the best out of myself under extreme conditions. After all a huge part of getting a university degree is becoming very good at taking tests. On a little side note I think a lot of people fail to tap into their best abilities due to performance anxiety under pressure.
Very true, test anxiety is very real and unfortunately a very large part of why some people can’t do well on tests. I think this is good reason to reconsider the black-white IQ gap, but that’s another topic for another day.
have you tried the test over at footballiqscore.com? Now that’s a real robust and difficult test. Try it out, everyone, and see what you get, and then post on here. PH, I would say this is a bit challenging to score as high as you did, so I think this may be a tad bit more authentic.
I just did the footballiqscore.com test and got a 44. Once again i wasn’t bothered to get pen and paper nor did I adequately motivate myself(did it while i was lying in bed lol). You’re right, this one did feel a bit harder, though I think having to type the answers on a few of the questions was a) slightly offputting, and b) probably added about 30 seconds to my time. I could have answered two extra questions in that time. Also there was no timer which for me is a little bit of a disandantage. A timer helps me pace myself better. Finally I noticed a time lag when I clicked submit to move on to the next question a few times, not sure if this wasted precious time. All in all though I think I did alright, happy with the score.
As for the black/white IQ gap, I would generally agree with you. Though I think it would be a bit of a stretch to attribute a 15 point gap entirely to performance anxiety. After all outside of being particularly predisposed to neuroticism(some people are and can’t help it) generally speaking an element of intra personal intelligence in one’s ability to keep their nerves in check. My sense is that at best, if we control for adverse socio-cultural effects the gap could be reduced by about 3 points(5 max).
Impressive, 44 as we both know is an amazing score. I am glad you found this particular Wonderlic test to be more difficult. I think there is a timer to the bottom right, but it’s very tiny and hardly noticeable. I would say having to type in the questions makes the problem harder and is comparable to the fill-in portions they may have on a pen-and-paper exam.
Yes, I think 5 points is a reasonable consideration for how much of an impact on how much the B-W gap is caused by test anxiety. I would also consider other things, such as a lack of reading comprehension creating difficulty in understanding questions, etc. I think the B-W gap stands at about 8 points but is inflated significantly because of various other phenomena.
Well I’m not an expert on this but I personally would not go past 5 points probably closer to 3. My reasoning is as follows. Looking at Lynn’s data it is quite striking to note that all ex communist european nations average around 95 while the average of the rest of Europe is around 98. This is a 3 point difference for a group of people that are roughly speaking genetically similar and were it not for their economic disparity they should have very similar IQs. Note that the economic adversity the ex communist nations of Europe was far greater than anything African Americans are currently enduring. As it stands the average income of AA is 39k and for US Whites it is 61k whereas back when Lynn did his study the disparity was significantly more than 2 to 1 for ex communists. So IMO 3 IQ points is pushing it if we just look at circumstantial economic effects. In other words the causality is looked at from the perspective that economic status influences IQ. Of course the prevailing wisdom is that it works the other way round but it’s not an exact science and so a reasonable approach would be to see it going both ways as a kind of feedback loop. Of course it looks like the black community is still “healing” from the adversity of the past while there are widespread hindering attitudes that probably have not completely left the american social psyche. This may take more time to find it’s balance and for this reason I think that 5 points should cover all the angles. I don’t see how it could be more than that and in fact my sense is that it’s probably closer to 3 points.
Note that in theory one could engineer a society where all advantages are given to black people while whites are maligned and put through some kind of psychological warfare. In extreme conditions one could in theory reverse the IQ difference which is a stark reminder that IQ is not an absolute score but rather a relative one. The social constructionists know this all too well and are doing their damdest to level the playing field, or as they say these days, bring about an equality of outcome. This of course would require draconian measures and a totalitarian almost fascistic approach. They are already at it with diversity quotas and what I reffer to as a pathological “underdog syndrome”. Of course they can only go so far with this and already there are signs that people are getting clued up at what is happening at their expense(see Asian Harvard law suit). I’m all for helping black people but I really don’t think this is the way to go about it.
Thats very odd that NFL coaches feel the need to IQ test players. That doesn’t happen in any other sport that Im aware of. I would have also thought playing gridiron would be the least intellectually challenging sport out there.
Well, other than basketball and track & field events, football is probably the sport most reliant on raw physical talent.
My hypothesis is that it allows them to keep (black) players under 15 (less than 90 IQ) marginal.
and they try to avoid players who score >40 who might challenge authority
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-draft-combine-wonderlic-perfect-score-pat-mcinally-cincinnati-bengals-punter-030217%3famp=true
I remember reading many years ago that some police departments hated recruits with IQs above 125 because they challenged authority too much. I wonder if this is true.
wisdom teeth and class, robert gaybriel mugabe the homophobic racist:
1. all 4 wisdom teeth fully erupt only in people with large heads or prognathism. and even when they do come in fully they often push on the rest of the teeth. that is, they come in “tight”.
2. they are especially susceptible to decay, thus even those whose wisdom teeth come in often have to have them extracted later.
freddy mercury had 4 extra upper teeth. sad!
plus there’s the fact that many people simply don’t have wisdom teeth at any time.
Agenesis of wisdom teeth differs by population, ranging from practically zero in Aboriginal Tasmanians to nearly 100% in indigenous Mexicans[2]
mugabe has all his wisdom teeth and there’s still lots of room back there, despite having english school boy othognathism, because…
mugabe has an enormous head!
Are you saying Mugabe is high iq (which I could buy, considering how eloquent he sounded back in the day)?
my family are such savages my brother has wisdom teeth AND two supernumerary teeth like freddie.
This mutation regarding the formation of wisdom teeth dates back to around 300,000 to 450,000 years ago – yikes! This breaks down to nearly 25 percent of Americans with European ancestry, 12 percent of Americans with African ancestry and over 40 percent of Americans with Asian ancestry.
so if you have an asian dentist he will see your sexy wisdom teeth and feel extremely jelly.
wisdom teeth = penis size.
sad!
when asian dentists extract wisdom teeth from negroes, it’s a hate crime.
IRA…
IRA…
SOMEDAY…
SOMEDAY…
THEY ARE FIGHTING.
Apparently the reports have an iq equivalent on there:
https://marketplace.icims.com/apps/117424/wonderlic-pre-employment-assessments#!features/Cognitive_Ability_Tests
Santo is probably the most amusing commenter here and hes not even trying most of the time.
Hahahahaha
I have to admit Jimmy does a good job thrashing dems than most Republicans do (with the notable exception of Trumpy who is funny).
Hes right about the corporate dems or as I call them, neocons.
WTF is ‘values’??!!
The 13 highest paid NFL contracts are paid more than 100 millions by 4y contract (25M a year). That’s more than 12 times the average contract of 8M/4y.
4y.
https://www.google.fr/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/09/28/the-highest-paid-player-on-every-nfl-team-right-now.html
32, 17, 29, 38, 25, 35, 20, 37, ?, 21, ?, ?, 31 = 28,5 (117)
So the 13 best players are at a 1 in 8 level compared to average players. There are 1696 players. Of correlation were perfect, the 13 best players should have a 1 in 260 average level or 40 average wonderlic score (140 IQ).
So you get a correlation of 0.45 between wonderlic and money earned by contract only wich is quite high. It would probably be higher if you consider total money earned (ads, investments by the players).
This is just a general question and I think I’ve asked it before. But isn’t a correlation of 0.45 quite meaningless? But maybe a number like that in social sciences is quite big. Put it this way, if i had a chance to double or lose $1000 and it was a 45% chance, I would probably take the 1000.
Philo, a 0.45 correlation doesn’t give you a 45% chance while betting. It’s around a 20% effect but that’s not a bet either.
There is a precise math answer to your question wich is the p-value, or testing how much the correlation between two variable is significant, and would answer to your bet. It depends on many things (size of data set, distribution form).
An interesting question is how much you improve your bet if you have to bet. In the NFL, if you had only wonderlic score knowledge and you wanted to identify the most paid, you’d improve your bet 8 times with IQ, but would still have only 3% chances of getting them.
For correlation significance, imagine that a 20% effect (correlation of 0.45) among parents relative level of education and their kids (if I believe Plomin who is often approximative but rarely completely wrong). You see that it’s quite significant because you compare surgeons kiids and blue collar kids.
Thats interesting to know. But I was getting at the 0.45 in relation to other variables you could look at like say, sprint speed or height.
I find it hard to believe IQ has any bearing on whether youre a good american football player or not. Unless you want argue such things like a higher IQ person would take care of their bodies better or hire a smarter agent to represent them.
One thing I would say though is that if a person was really low IQ to the point of it being an intellectual disability, then I would believe chances of the player being declared bankrupt would be related to IQ scores. Actually in reality ex NFL players are well known to go bankrupt. I would guess most of these are blacks (low IQ players) as well.
Yes , the 0.45 it’s a correlation inside the group (and based on 10 scores of the top 13).
For the correlation between general population and NFL it’s :
– 0 if your don’t consider race mix
If there is 250 news players each tear for 2 million boys, you select at a 1 in 20 000 level (the 125th guy level) and the average IQ being 100, you can say that the correlation is 0.
– 0.2 if you take race into account
If you take into account race, white have a 110, it’s 0.2 . For black, if you have 300k black boys and you select 150 guys, you select 1 out of 4000 level on average. If black have 85 IQ on average and 95 in NFL draft, it’s also 0.2.
So IQ is a marginal help to be a NFL player (4% effect within race) and a sizeable effect within professional players (drafted for several seasons) of 10% to 20%.
Ps : done during my 20 minutes tea time break ..
fascinating analysis bruno, but your estimate may suffer from sampling error, given your small sample of highest paid players. a study that actually calculated correlations directly found low correlations:
http://www.athleticinsight.com/Vol10Iss1/TestingSuccess.htm
If I had 2 croissants instead of 1, I would have considered the top 30 players 🙂
In the stat, they take drafted versus non drafted players. So it’s measuring IQ prediction. The pertinent measure is to take IQ inside the NFL team because IQ is such a marginal thing in recruitment, there is too much noise. Then you see all things being equal among players, what’s the correlation is.
My guess is that If we had the 1600 salaries and wonderlic, it would be around 0.33 or 10% effect.
To be fair I have a soft spot for Joe Biden. And he is considered a ‘corpo dem’. Actually hes not a million miles off obama in terms of policy. And Obama was great on policy.
I would give obama an A on his policies in fact. Even his border policy was great – record deportations under obama (but his executive order proto dream act was disgusting).
Puppys head will explode now when he realises I agree with him on most policies with the main exception of criminal justice.
To the point where I would probably have to have a long think about whether to go for Biden or Trump.
I mean if Biden started saying america needs a border in order to exist, that would be great.
During the Obama administration the definition of deportation was altered to include people within 100 miles of the border, of which most where recent intruders that would have been sent away otherwise, but just not defined as being deported.
Illuminaticatblog
https://mobile.twitter.com/matpatgt/status/515520664543846400
You often asked for matpats IQ and here is what he claims. Maybe he is being sarcastic but who knows? He got some lateral thinking skills, even though he gets much inspirations from blogs and forum discussions.
that reminds me. i went to school with a kid whose dad once rented limos. his dad stopped renting them to blacks, because they’d always leave fried chicken stains on the upholstery. or so the kid told me.
trump is more likely to do that than oprah. you can even see the stains on the headrest
Meanwhile Queen Oprah has very high standards when it comes to food:
Very disrespectful from Oprah. It just shows how pampered she is with her personal chefs and nutritionists. Some of this is the well known anger of black women towards white women for being more feminine.
disrespectful but funny. the woman won a million dollars for that chicken so oprah was expecting better.
And there is cultural, race and individual differences in taste (sophistication because there is a hierarchy of discrimination). In this case, it’s impossible to say wich one has poor taste.
The white girl don’t know how to handle Oprah rudeness. She could have made a joke (comparing Oprah to a child loving nuggets and greasy salty food) but it would have been risky to look racist.
R. Kelly seemed too masculine to be a pedophile, but it seems he is.
That clip with Oprah reminds me of how rude blacks (especially uppity celebrity ones) can be.
Granted northern European food can be awfully bland. I remember joking about that with some subcontinentals once upon a time.
Nobody’s more rude to guests than letterman & he’s white. It’s a talk show & an honest response is more entertaining than fake politeness. Also, millions of people will waste time making the recipe if oprah pretends it’s good.
Like I said, I’m pretty sure the food actually was bland. But to see Oprah demolish the woman’s work like that, on TV, even for laughs was…just too much….
I don’t believe that story. Too stereotypical….
Last response was to Mugabe of course
This is interesting.
Oprah is such a fast talker which is correlated with IQ.
You say everything she does is correlated with IQ. You even said her book club showed she had a high IQ before I actually had to publish the list of books and go through it.
No she has some traits that point to lower IQ such as her weight & background. Her book club is largely marketing & only 50% reflects her literary tastes.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/jan/25/michael-jackson-documentary-leaving-neverland
SO it looks like Michael Jackson really was a paedophile. Wow. I thought he was just mentally ill.
It reminds me of that guy that played Pee Wee Herman in the movies who was also proven to be a paedo. He also acted like a child a lot publicly.
I’ve read Elvis was also a borderline paedo. But he preferred young girls.
Pumpkin, you know how there are discontinue rules right? What if you can do some of the problems they would have administered if you hadn’t failed three times in a row? Does that mean your IQ is higher than tested?
Probably a little, but keep in mind the test was normed on people who were scored by the exact same rules. So maybe you would have got 3 more raw score points had the discontinue rule not been there. But if the discontinue rule hadn’t been there, the average person might have scored 3 raw score points higher too, so when you change the rules, you also have to think about how that would change the norms. You can’t just change the rules for yourself and assume the norms stand still.
Of course in most cases, people fail every item after the discontinue point which is why it is there in the first place, so if you correctly answer several items beyond the discontinue point, then yes you were probably underestimated. But if you get just one item beyond the discontinue point, then your percentile rank would probably stay the same if everyone could go past the discontinue point.
the minnesota study is the most famous. i hadn’t noticed before that the last column has heritability adjusted for reliability.
the figure used for IQ reliability is too low, but even so the result of the correction gives a true score/true score correlation (for MZAs) of less than .8 for IQ and a true score/true score correlation for systolic bp of 91%.
i know for a fact that systolic bp is 100% environmental in the sense that no one however old needs to have a resting systolic bp greater than 110 barring severe kidney disease or an adrenal tumor.
just another proof that hereditism is for dumb people.
no actually the last column is MZA correlation over MZT correlation. what does that signify? the MZT correlation could be thought of as the reliability, but it’s NOT the same thing.
MZT correlation for systolic bp divided by reliability of measurement gives heritability of .64/.7 = .91, same as last column because MZT correlation is also .7. but maybe this reliability is too low.
for IQ (WAIS full scale) the reliability is given as .90. this is way too low, but was chosen because it’s close to the MZT correlation of .88.
I think what you want is the correlation between the TRUE scores of MZs raised apart, which would give the true heritability.
The short-term stability coefficient of the WISC-R (and presumably the WAIS) is 0.95 at older ages, meaning a 0.95 correlation between the same teen tested a month apart. But since each testing session contains error, the correlation between IQ and true IQ is the square root of the short-term stability coefficient which is 0.97.
Similarly, the IQ correlation between twins raised apart (0.69) needs to be square rooted to get the correlation between IQ and genotype which would be 0.83. Dividing 0.83 by 0.97 gives us the correlation between genotype and true IQ which is 0.86. 0.86 squared which is 0.74 would be the heritability of IQ corrected for reliability.
but no one knows how to improve IQ, other than coaching for a particular test, which only improves scores on very similar tests and has virtually no real world predictive power in school or work.
I know a few ways.
I wonder if HGH in childhood could improve IQ.
the same goes for adiposity. that is, at least in some studies, adiposity is as heritable as IQ.
the reailty: the czech sumo Takanoyama couldn’t gain weight. not wouldn’t. but couldn’t. Chiyonofuji could gain more than Takanoyama but not much more. he was still the lightest wrestler in the makuuchi at 280. BUT all of those wrestlers who could get to 350+ could have been just as svelte as Takanoyama or Chiyonofuji. in their domain they were “lucky”. that is, there is an environment where fat people would be thin.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/2/243/4564667
you can see i recalled correctly.
one way to think of measurable intelligence is…
the dumb are like hypertensive fat people.
Well that’s the key question. Is IQ malleable like fat and muscle mass, or is it fixed like height and cranial capacity?
but it’s even more subtle than that, because…
cranial capacity depends on the womb and the first few years of life.
and height depends on the environment even longer.
the fact that a trait is fixed at a certain point in development doesn’t mean that that trait is “genetic”.
immutability != “genetic”
Correct
[redacted by pp, Jan 26, 2019]
there is a limit to the 100m, the mile, the high jump…secretariat is the limit of thoroughbred horse speed.
so rather than the absurd notion of breeding humans for 1,000 IQs (ala professor shoe), it’s better to think of trying to get as many people up to the maximum of what is humanly possible.
as things are today, 95% of genomes are capable of scoring what is today 140.
but some of them need a more gulag like environment, like afro.
higher than 140 requires freak luck.
it never gets old!
I think it depends on the test. If you want to define ALL college admission tests in all countries as IQ tests then maybe most genotypes can score super high in the right environment but the Gestalt IQ seems much less sensitive to cultural environment. The Minnesota transracial adoption study found that by age 17, scholastic aptitude tests were much more sensitive to family environment than the wechsler
If IQ is like height, then saying 95% of genomes are capable of scoring what today is 140+ is a bit like saying 95% of (male) genomes are capable of being 6’5”+.
Perhaps, but not in any environment currently identified, & if identified, would likely raise the height of genomes who are currently 6’5” to 7’4”, thus maintaining the genetic rank.
P = G + E lives
The brain is an organ. Organs and their ailments or attributes are usally heritable.
I agree with mugabe that 1000iq people would be impossible. Or it might be but the person would be like rain man. I bet most of the test tube geniuses china creates will have autism and wont be able to tell if someone is lying to them.
I wonder, on an IQ test, why don’t they do a factor analysis of the SAT, Wonderlic, other random tests that are pretty much IQ tests, and put them into one huge test? I’m also curious as to how the Wonderlic has such a high correlation to WAIS- it feels like the arithmetic subtest on the WAIS. The Arithmetic subtest isn’t as highly correlated, it’s a .77 correlation I believe.
Doing a factor analysis that included several entire test batteries would force people to spend all day being tested. That’s why it’s never been done.
The wonderlic sample items I’ve seen include a few spatial and proverb items; content similar to the WAIS
But I agree the correlation sounds too high. Maybe the sample wasn’t large or diverse enough
My wonderlic score is atrocious (slightly above average), yet I still scored 98th percentile in crystallized intelligence on the RAIT. Nothing makes sense to me in the IQ testing world.
I mean, I think the Wonderlic has a pretty damn high correlation, more so than .77 because there’s more than just arithmetic problems, I’m thinking it’s more .82-.85, still a very high correlation.
Also, what’s the correlation between working memory and spatial intelligence?
Billy, what’s your Short Term memory and processing speed score? It seems like the wonderlic is testing you PS and WM more than anything. It’s more of an efficiency test.
Nothing does make sense in the IQ test world.
GondwanaMan
Did you ever experience stuff like this??
I only listened to 5 minutes of the video but I get the impression the teacher was at an urban public school. I mostly attended middle to upper-middle class suburban public and private schools in the Deep South where the black populations were 10-40%. I never experienced anything like this video except for one time I took an elective class with a bunch of low-achieving black and Hispanic students. Definitely a bit of an eye-opener…one thing I realized from being around dum-dums is that they find it painful to shut up and be quiet during lectures. But I knew some high-achieving blacks, too….
Many goverments already have iq enhancement programms. But they call it ‘working’. Boradly speaking resources go to people with higher iqs and ifiots cant use violence to pillage the nerds like in africa.
Unlike puppy i dont think only nerds can be billionaires. Im certain about half of billionaires arent even publicy known and many of them are rich from looti g their countries or corruption or some other scam.
What chris langan iltalks about in his interviews is something closer to that movie with uma thurman,gattaca and purposley selectively breeding humans for iqs. Im not for it. Because as some of the people here have pointed out ‘iq’ foesnt measure some aspects of cognition like social iq or creativity so im not sure how we would measure ‘smarter’ humans. In fact im reasonably sure these things often are sacrificed for cognitive development elsewhere in the brain. Also i think cognitive diversity is important. For example i think iqs are linked to personalities and it would be a bit sad to lose so many personality types in the search for the human calculator.
Most of the billionaires identified by Forbes are non-nerds & many are quite corrupt. But to be a self-made decabillionaire or centibillionaire often requires the ability to exploit technology, because that’s where the real wealth is these days. You’re just bitter that your God George Soros is way too dumb to compete for the real money in high tech
LOL, Soros would be richer than tech billionaires if he didnt keep giving away his money. Also Bezos just lost half his fortune to social incompetence.
Gates has given away far more and is literally ten times richer. Soros is like the mentally disabled kid all the high IQ nerds pick on to take out their anger at being picked on by jocks.
There nothing to steal in africa. Dont be ridiculous. People need to sustain themselves over there.
I think primitive culture with much food and security (IE ancient germania, ancient Tibet and china) make people nicer and smarter. Maybe also more good looking (im having an hypothesis on that claim).
Agricultural societies with little food makes people more evil and inbred and stupid and ugly.
Early industrial societies makes people smarter and more industrious, but not much nicer. The amount of niceness evolved is probably due to the amount of polygammy involved. Where theres an postive correlation.
Rich countries with large income inequality but some upward mobility and an elite with an educated female base are dygenic in an rapid paste.
Advanced european economies makes people more industrious and masculine, but not smarter and less autistic. Perhaps what youd call social intelligence.
East asian type societies makes people more autistic and socialiy intelligent at the same time (divergent resource and reproductive niches), more healthy, more stress tolerant, industrious, intelligent, conformist (wanting the praise and attention of others), greedy, competetive, psychopathic.
All of this is genomically, not phenotypically.
All societies are
Im writing this while sick, i might rescind some statements in the future as my brain is slow as heeeellll…
There is always something to steal. Even in a desert, water is worth stealing.
But we are not talking about an desert. Africa has 1890 european living standards.
Billy,
If you’re willing to share, what did your score breakdown look like on the RAIT? I’m looking in to possibly taking it.
Thanks
Also, Soros is smarter than gates and bezos. All you have to do is listen to them talk. Its not controversial to say that. Actually you even know what my general feelings on jews are so its not like i have sentiment in this.
You lack the verbal comprehension to listen to anyone talk & your social IQ is so low you thought Michael Jackson was innocent.
Gates talks dumb because his IQ is so high he talks to normal people like normies talk to children. By contrast soros talks to normal people like adults because they’re his peer group.
Although in fairness, soros is more influential than gates in that he has used his money to advance his ethnic genetic interests but that’s largely because gates’s IQ is so high, he realizes there’s more to life than fighting over territory like a tribal chimp.
Its a lot harder to be the best hedge fund manager in the world than a software company executive. Also, if gates actually wanted 60b in cash hed have to sell so much stock simultaneously, he’d have to take a haircut. So in effect 60b is only on paper.
Also, while Soros is smart in promoting his vision of the world, Gates was duped into ploughing his fortune into the orc population.
Its a lot harder to be the best hedge fund manager in the world than a software company executive.
Based on what?
Also, if gates actually wanted 60b in cash hed have to sell so much stock simultaneously, he’d have to take a haircut. So in effect 60b is only on paper.
He has $95 billion on paper, and while he can’t liquidate all at once, he can do so slowly. Also you can buy stuff using stocks as the currency so he doesn’t even have to sell in many cases.
Also, while Soros is smart in promoting his vision of the world, Gates was duped into ploughing his fortune into the orc population.
Don’t confuse intelligence with ethnocentricism. Intelligence is just the brain’s problem solving computer, but the problems you solve are dictated by our primitive reptile brain. Soros advances his ethnic interests, not because he’s a better problem solver, but because his reptile brain demands those problem be solved. By contrast Gates lacks tribal motives, not because he was brainwashed out of them, but because he was born without them. So he uses his intelligence to help those who most need it, cure diseases, and gain popularity and status:
^^^PROOF BILL IS AUTISTIC^^^
bill is left handed and has a small head. he also has a weak chin.
and his voice is a lot more than a northwest accent. it’s like a parody of a northwest accent. it suggests he has something wrong with him.
but whatever is wrong with him may also be what’s right with him.
Actually funnily enough Bezos made his initial fortune in hedge funds. Think he was a programmer trader type.
even though the russia stuff is 100% hoax…even though jimmy dore calls it a “red scare”…
institutions have inertia. in the case of the roman empire yuge inertia. in the case of formal education following the printing press yuge inertia.
the one yuge conspiracy theory which might be true is…
putin is communist.
everyone join in in making fun of professor shoe’s new show on youtube. obviously professor shoe is going through a manic episode.
asians can’t be talk show hosts! only asians don’t know this.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbX5WqbuIDE7_-_G6rcboEg/
the problem with the wonderlic is it’s a pure speed test. or that’s what i remember.
so it has the same fault as the performance section of the wechsler or the old analytic section of the GRE.
that is, amphetamines have a significant effect on scores.
genuine diversity means differences MATTER.
A LOT.
I had to take the WPT for a job interview as a software developer. I had to take another test for another such job interview called the PLI, which also consisted of 50 multiple-choice questions to be answered within 12 minutes. I scored around 46/50 on the online Wonderlic sample tests. The real test was practically identical to the online samples, and although I didn’t receive my exact score, I told the recruiter that I felt confident in answering above 45/50 correctly. The recruiter seemed to agree that I was at this level. I had over 3 minutes remaining on the clock when I finished the WPT. Similar results on the PLI. My best advice to others is to not score this highly, as you will intimidate recruiters and HR representatives and weaken your chances of being hired. I first experienced this discrimination as a teenager when I was given an aptitude test for the ironically empty-brained vocation that is being a lunch lady. The test was prefaced with a disclaimer saying that ‘I absolutely would not be able to finish the test on time’. The test turned out to be a large collection of numerical sequences to be completed in a painstakingly short amount of time; I believe it was 60 sequences to be completed in 8 minutes. I was 30 seconds away from finishing the test when it submitted on me, meaning I had answered 58/60. I was only 16 or 17 years old, and I didn’t know about IQ at the time. I was called to the next stage of the interview process for that position, and afterwards was asked if I had any questions for the interviewer. I said that I really enjoyed the aptitude test challenges and I wanted to know what my score was. The interviewer literally released a disappointed exhalation and said that he didn’t feel comfortable discussing this. The interview ended 2 minutes later.
https://www.webmd.com/cancer/brain-cancer/news/20181106/the-bigger-the-brain-the-bigger-the-tumor-risk