Here’s a must-skim paper by Bernard Crespi about a paradox I myself noticed a long time ago. A lot of autistic people have all the signs of high IQ (intellectual interests, high IQ genetic variants, incredible talents, high social class, big heads, hyperlexia, photographic memory, calculating ability) yet are below average in IQ.
In an attempt to resolve the paradox, Crespi argues something like autism is unbalanced high intelligence. But unbalanced high IQ usually leads to a lot of subtest scatter around an overall high composite score, it doesn’t lead to the below average or even mentally retarded IQs often found in autism.
Of course as commenter Swank noted, autistics are often good at what they practice. So if you have the genetic potential to have an IQ of 170, but spend all your time thinking about toothpicks, you might end up with a took pick IQ of 250 and IQ of 60 in everything else, and since toothpicks aren’t on the IQ test, your overall IQ will appear to be impaired, even though it would actually be in the genius range if a high ceiling toothpick subtest could be added.
So perhaps autism isn’t so much a cognitive disability as an interest disability. Autistics are born not being interested in people or their culture, and thus don’t develop the parts of the brain that our valued by society. This assumes of course the neuro-plasticity model where cognitive abilities can be exercised like muscles which is true up to a point (though IQ tests try to include abilities no one’s had a chance to exercise because they’re so novel).
But why should autism be more common in high IQ or at least upper class families as some (though not all) studies suggest? Perhaps because iin our high tech society, it helps to have enough non-social interests and abilities to acquire a lucrative high-tech job, where you meet others with equally non-social interests. But when two non-socials mate, they risk having a baby that is pathologically non-social, to the point where it doesn’t even care to learn basic social skills and language, and thus is considered autistic.
And of course if you don’t learn the language, the autistic will fail even the IQ test items he’s brilliant at because he wont understand the instructions.
Pumpkin Person 
My social skills are above average.
My IQ is above average.
I could have skills/abilities not measured by IQ.
I think it is unlikely I am at the genius level.
Just average.
[redacted by pp, July 21, 2018]
Its a continuum.
If you walk into Caltechs engineering lecture hall and say, Berkelys, youll find all sorts on the spectrum both pronouned and not.
A more interesting question is why some people can be very good at math but not have any disabilities in social or verbal or artistic skills. People like Doplh Lundgren or a lot of eastern european type quants I met in London. Indians are a lot better socially than east asians and are also good at math.
Most people who are smart in one area tend to be smart in most other areas. IQ scores would be meaningless if there wasn’t a general intelligence.
Autistic savants are interesting because they’re the extreme exception to this rule.
This is kind of wrong in my opinion. The well known example is blacks who are in general socailly a lot smarter and ‘more normal’ than their IQs suggest.
And then asians who literally are peasants tilling rice paddies but have high spatial and quant IQs but the dress sense of….
not very good.
Blacks are not as socially intelligent as you think. Politically they’re kind of naive, supporting immigration even though immigrants take their jobs.
And East Asians are not as socially dumb as you think, they are very socially successful among themselves & China is emerging as a great power.
Actually I’ve said before blacks are unbrainwashable. I mean that literally. You see me bash blacks about this or that, but one thing I have to be honest is that they are by far the least brainwashable people.
All the blacks I’ve met in my life thought mainstream media was dubious in some way.
Yes, but blacks think media is dubious for the OPPOSITE reason you think it’s dubious. You can’t both be socially intelligent when you reach the opposite conclusions.
Actually the first part, is knowing something is off. But you have to be well read to know whats really going on with the media. This is where verbal IQ and reasoning seperate the pretenders from the champ (me). 🙂
Actually Im pretty sure some blacks think the whole magic negro phenomenon is bizarre.
There’s different aspects to social IQ. A big one is figuring out how much of an investment into the group’s rules is worth it given the likely rewards. Another is figuring out the unspoken biases and norms within a group.
I imagine Asians have a lot of the latter and blacks have a lot of the former.
I imagine Asians have a lot of the latter and blacks have a lot of the former.
Interesting dichotomy
But I assume you meant to say it the other way around: Asians know which groups to join but blacks know how to join which groups
What’s “social IQ”? Just some arbitrary phrase for people who are good at socializing with people? How is it quantified?
No I would say that Asians don’t know which groups to join. Think about it…they conform to high extent to groups that don’t reward them well. Blacks on the other hand only conform when they absolutely have to….that’s why they are stereotyped as lazy and careless workers…because they probably realize how little being a good employee would get them, etc.
And even though blacks have many bad outcomes….thei life satisfaction/happiness IIRC is far past what one would expect given their circumstances.
First time I agree with Swank. White and asian people would be angry being poor. Blacks dont mind. They have pretty low level abstract dreams, if any beyond being famous.
Blacks have supposedly high social IQ but:
Join stupid cult groups like the Jim Jones cult at a high rate.
Give their menial salaries to their Baptist/Pentecostal preachers for the hope of getting more money in return somehow (prosperity gospel)
Are obsessed with material wealth and shallow pop culture trends
Actually seem to think people like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Maxine Waters actually care about them (or maybe they just see them as tools to get stuff from whitey)
Actually tend to be very collectivist–other blacks and whites that follow don’t follow the correct, vacuous pop culture trends and fashions set by the likes of Jay-Z, TI, Kayne West, etc. tend to get mocked and ridiculed (as happened to me growing up). Although maybe this is high social IQ.
Tend to perpetrate a lot of scams and cons, but get scammed and conned themselves.
Regardless, black social IQ is not that impressive….
All of that is consistent with HIGH SOCIAL IQ….
Does the stupid cult group meet their HUMAN NEEDS?
Ask that question for any of the other activities blacks engage in and you will realize that they are socially smart.
And yes, other blacks are mocked…why?
Because they are joining the wrong groups.
For example, is it smart for a black person to work very hard to receive rewards that will never ever be commensurate to his efforts? Is it smart for that person to conform to a culture’s norms, when that culture hates him for WHO HE IS?
White and asian people are very socially poor, on average.
Phil thinks he agrees with me when he doesn’t even grok what I’m talking about.
Humans are concerned first and foremost with the business of being seen and treated as a human being, i.e. EQUITY.
Material goods, etc. are secondary.
Phil (and many others) hold the abstract and the ability to “abstract” as some in-ether godsend.
It is not. It can be very destructive.
Taking care of your personal humanity should always come first.
Blacks have a much much lower suicide rate than whites.
IIRC however, YOUNG black children have a higher suicide rate.
Why?
Blacks seem to be socially smart about joining groups that meet their human needs.
But, the reality of ‘not many groups’ is probably very daunting for young blacks.
The best social IQ test must be dress sense imo. Its pretty simple and its not like nobody has a choice these days.
The exception to it might be drug dealer and ‘wastrel’ types who are actually quite good socially and ‘cool’ but dress for ease like the chess club.
But even then its never as bad. Its not ‘gauche’.
Dress sense can also be influenced by taste which is more of a personality trait and socio economic / educationallevel.
and of course cultural . South and east Asians usually don’t prefer plain colored clothing. as much. regardless of their taste or above factors.
That doesn’t mean they don’t have a dress sense. It means they have a different kind of dress sense.
Actually the best social IQ test is body posture/walking gait.
Nerds always walk awkwardly like they’re unsure of themselves. And slightly stooped over looking down at the ground.
Blacks tend to walk with head up and shoulders back. And they grab their crotches and walk like they’re dancing to a beatbox or something (I don’t do this tho)
“Actually the best social IQ test is body posture/walking gait.”
Then 60+ percent of people I see in my daily life fail, since they have shitty posture, anterior and posterior pelvic tilt; upper and lower cross syndrome etc. Of course, with the population becoming increasingly more sedentary and along with it, sitting more, shitty posture will continue to be prevalent in the population.
“Blacks tend to walk with head up and shoulders back.”
Probably due to sports.
Everyone here in this video can hold a conversation. But if you walked into a room of east asian math olympiad trainees, I would doubt it.
5:40
Listen to the mans social reasoning.
Thats a high social IQ response.
A person who has low social IQ would talk about parenting or putting a factory in there or banning guns or even moving more white people into the place.
^^^^
These are all real policy proposals by the democrats btw. I didn’t make it up,
LOL. I’ll take your word for it, I couldn’t understand what they were saying.
The guys say it best: ‘Life is short here’
People genetically act accordingly. Rushton is 100% right. People that deny it, should actually go live in jamaica, or rio de janeiro or capetown for a few months and see rather than read books.
“People genetically act accordingly”
Hahaha
“Rushton is 100% right”
Hahaha hahaha ha
Wheres the open thread. I dont want to talk about this topic anymore
Make a new one
Fascinating.
People will comment on how weird it is. But actually one thing i’d note is how similar it is to other Asian places I’ve been e.g. Singapore.
It’s nice for him to be good looking and athletic. When I see his voice, movements and expression, imitating the trend, while being so void, I wonder how we can belong to the same species, this guy and me.
When i was a kid i used to call other people “dogs”. Im more humble now, but i see what you mean, there is some real diversity in psychological profile. Id say many desires make people similar in a way, and that im part of normality in my desires, yet some people are even devoid of that or transcend it with more desires. Kinda like when pumpkin told Afro that his desires where baseline.
More north korea (puppys homeland)
Some thoughts
1. Pyongyang compared to detroit or capetown or kingston looks a LOT better and they are under an embargo. How come the american economists never mention how free trade didn’t make those black nations look as good? Strange.
2. Is it just me or do the civilians in the video look like actors.
3. No electricity at night + bumpy unever roads = first east asians that can’t do engineering. (but they do have nuclear weapons and a decent millitary I suppose)
4. 14 mins in u get an aerial view of the city without the tour guides forcing them to look at actors. I think the city looks a lot more impressive than most 2nd and 3rd world countries.
5. There are very few civilians. Im thinking the ones on screen probably are actors. Its very odd. Major public places are nearly empty. If theres no electricity, what are the people doing inside their houses? Reading?
Puppy what did normal people do day to day in pyingyang. What do you remember doing to pass time?
Please post off-topic comments in the open thread. Your other comments couldn’t be posted here.
Reminder that “ASD” lacks biological and construct validity.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40489-016-0085-x
This article is a joke. Its actually autistic funnily enough.
Why isn’t the paper must-read?
“High IQ generic variants”
I assume from GWAS. Yawn.
“So if you have the genetic potential to have an IQ of 170, but spend all your time thinking about toothpicks, you might end up with a took pick IQ of 250 and IQ of 60 in everything else, and since toothpicks aren’t on the IQ test, your overall IQ will appear to be impaired, even though it would actually be in the genius range if a high ceiling toothpick subtest could be added.”
Couldn’t you argue the same thing for Blacks? Is it possible Blacks score lower because there is no test for motor function or auditory ability?
Melo good point, but I’m not sure if blacks are superior enough at music and motor to negate their lower scores on more g loaded tests.
Pitch discrimination and music have decent g loadings but I haven’t seen anything for motor skills. Blacks are also socially intelligent, or more maybe just more ballsy.
First post here, so don’t plant your fangs on my neck.
You argued in 2014 that autistics tend to be overrepresented among the highest (and lowest) IQs because of their ample cognitive variability.
Do you think this may also be applied to creativity? Like, if there was a way to estimate a creative quotient, autistics would have a below average creativity, but also be more creatively variable and so overrepresented also at both ends of the imagination curve?
Because a study i found seem to show contradictions about common conceptions of imagination in Autism (This only concerns traits, though):
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-015-2518-2
I don’t know, it is still possible that this hypothesis is straightforwardly flawed and so that study, but i’m still not quite sure.
I do think high IQ “autistics” are more likely to be creative geniuses than high IQ “non-autistics”, because they view the world from a unique perspective and obsessive focus is an important part of creativity. But any conclusions are tentative because I don’t think scientists yet know what autism is or who has it.
I’m new. I’d like to leave you with something I’ve just learned for myself. I recently had an awakening where I realized I was autistic and at the same time admitted that I know nothing. This was all started by a schizophrenic break in my good friend where he used some pretty powerful intuitive skills to topple my world. I had a near death experience in the form of a waking seizure months into my confusion. The pain that caused the seizure was caused by new feelings for a cancer patient and his family, who were a big part of my past. After the seizure I was not in control of my actions. My feeling of free will was removed while I tried to figure out what was controlling me. Turns out NDEs are cool ways that the human mind reboots itself but that’s for another time.
I believe my particular type of autism was caused by a schizophrenic man briefly holding me when I was 6 months old. I believe the animalistic gentleness and respect of society’s forgotten is a large factor in giving autism to populations that have a lack of respect and natural behavior. I’ve come to realize that my autism made me a very pure child throughout my entire life. I’ve always had a strong sense that everyone is good inside. Such a deep sense that I never realized I was driven by it.
I think schizophrenia and my specific autism combine to create extreme creativity, similar to Simon and Garfunkel. I consider myself to be forging new scientific paths of discovery in autism and mental health. In my mind, schizophrenia seems to be the cause of autism, and that schizophrenia can be either personal like mine or societal. Enter Orwell.
Are you interested?
Advanced maternal age.
And advanced paternal age. . Also I think a big age difference between father and mother could also contribute to ASD’s.
It is the ability to focus on a singular area of fascination. Acute details. They do not think holistically. Which means they think in specifics and not generalities. They take things literally and spend less time speculating on what is in the minds of others to learn how to connect a person’s actions to their mentality. Why did they do that? let’s speculate. The autistic person fails to speculate and askes only in confusion: why? They look for specific reasons and not general reasons a person would do something. So they see only one reason and not many. Non-autistics can see many reasons and intuitively see why a person did what they did. Body language is holistic not a detail-oriented thing. And interacting with people you must be able to get the other person to do the talking whereas the Autistic person can only think of what to say themselves.
Narrow focus, (toothpicks, think of others minds unintuitively)
A spectrum. Philosopher said.
“big heads, hyperlexia, photographic memory, calculating ability) yet are below average in IQ.”
Effed up connectome?