The brilliant Bruno writes:
Chomsky has much more than 125 and a huge creativity ability. In linguistics theory, he is a master . Like Gärdenfors or Davidson for semantics. And Stalnaker for syntax .
This reminds me that I promised I would do an article on Noam Chomsky’s IQ.
Chomsky is arguably the most academically successful Jew of his generation. In 1992, MIT news reported:
Recent research on citations in three different citation indices show that Professor Chomsky is one of the most cited individuals in works published in the past 20 years.
In fact, his 3,874 citations in the Arts and Humanities Citation Index between 1980 and 1992 make him the most cited living person in that period and the eighth most cited source overrall–just behind famed psychiatrist Sigmund Freud and just ahead of philosopher Georg Hegel.
Indeed, Professor Chomsky is in illustrious company. The top ten cited sources during the period were: Marx, Lenin, Shakespeare, Aristotle, the Bible, Plato, Freud, Chomsky, Hegel and Cicero.
In 2005 he was voted the World’s top public intellectual.
Chomsky is part of the Silent Generation, one of the 58 million Americans born from 1925 to 1945. In 2013 it was estimated that Jews are 3.3% of U.S. adults, if Jewish is defined as having at least one Jewish parent or being raised Jewish, even if you now have another religion. Only 55% of this 3.3% is Jewish by religion.
We don’t know how many Americans were Jewish in Chomsky’s day, but in 1957, 3.2% of Americans 14 or older were Jewish by religion, and assuming even back then, Jews by religion were 55% of the Jewish population, then the total Jewish population was 5.8% of America.
Assuming they were also 5.8% of the Silent Generation, and assuming Chomsky is the most academically successful Jew of his generation, that puts him in the top one in 3.4 million level among U.S. Jews in academic success. If there were a perfect correlation between IQ and academic success, and assuming Jews have the same IQ variance as Whites, this would imply Chomsky’s IQ is 75 points higher than the average U.S. Jew. Today the correlation between IQ and academic success is only about 0.55, but in the mid-20th century, when Chomsky was coming of age, it was a potent 0.7 and was likely about the same in the Jewish population.
A 0.7 correlation implies that instead of Chomsky being 75 IQ points smarter than the average Jew, as a perfect correlation predicts, he’d be 75(0.7) = 53 points smarter than the average Jew. On a scale where the white mean is set at IQ 100 (Standard Deviation = 15), U.S. Jews average about 110, making Chomsky’s expected IQ 163, with a 95% confidence interval of 142 to 184.
Why are Ashkenazi IQs so high? Gregory Cochran, Jason Harding, and Henry Harpending cite sphingolipid diseases in the Ashkenazi gene pool and claim these mutations increase the length and branching of neurons in Ashkenazi brains. As many as 2% of Israeli Ashkenazim are in high IQ occupations, but an incredible 15% of Israeli Gaucher patients are. This suggests Gaucher patients are 1 standard deviation above the Israeli Ashkenazi mean in occupational status. If one assumes Gaucher disease caused these high occupations via increased IQ, then the 0.7 correlation between IQ and occupation implies this disease increased IQ by 1.43 standard deviations (21 points) for occupation to have increased by 0.7(1.43 SD) = 1 SD.
Of course these results need to be replicated in more numerous and diverse samples before any causal inferences are made.
My personal opinion is that yes, Ashkenazim are smarter than whites, but that the gap is inflated by their hyper-intellectual culture, giving them an unfair advantage on IQ tests. On a truly culture reduced IQ test (that could somehow measure verbal ability without culture bias), I think they’d score 5 points higher than whites, instead of the 10 point advantage they enjoy on conventional tests. Thus, my best guess is Chomsky’s true IQ is 5 points lower than estimated above: 158, not 163.
Given that Chomsky is now 89, it would be absolutely fascinating to give him a version of the WAIS. Unlike brilliant young adults who have their IQ scores limited by ceiling bumping, the WAIS-R had an astonishing ceiling of IQ 185 for 70-74 year olds, so just imagine how much ceiling you could get at Chomsky’s age.
Now that I’ve discussed Chomsky’s intelligence, here’s Chomsky discussing Neanderthal intelligence:
Minor corrections were made to this article on Feb 14, 2018
Pumpkin Person 
Chomsky said IBM Watson made no progress in machine intelligence. A glorified expert system. I agree with him. Language tries to reason or explain reality by a grammar which is a ruleset of the causality or state of reality. And to do this we must know what is in reality and how grammar conveys the nature of reality because it matters the way you say something. The person listening will derive causative chucks that allow them to view a new perspective of reality leading to more questions how this new way of seeing reality makes possible the question of perspectives both do not known but can explore by reason.
In Jungian, I am looking for the most concise reference points to understand cognition. It has been confusing but I am now seeing the core theory. Michael Pierce says Chomsky is INFJ. His ability to be predictive of human nature is expounded by his ability to be complete in his research. Since what I said is a measure of personality it is not to detract from him having a high IQ or anything but that thoroughness is a plus in academia. The way I put things together is more random. Random people can be seen as dumb because they forget to check their work and only selectively in random order. Having little structure to mentally plan a research project. Chomsky sounds very controlled in everything he says.
Function labels are:
Intuition, Sensing, Thinking, Feeling.
N – causative
S – empirical
T – calculating
F – evaluative
Ni – predictive, convergent
Ne – stochastic, branching
Si – certainty, recording
Se – vividness, photorealism
Ti – completeness, symmetrical
Te – achievement, goal oriented
Fi – personal meaning, self-centric
Fe – group affirming common grounds
Quote: Pairs
Ni – predictive, convergent
Se – vividness, photorealism
Ne – stochastic, branching
Si – certainty, recording
Ti – completeness, symmetrical
Fe – group affirming common grounds
Te – achievement, goal oriented
Fi – personal meaning, self-centric
if oprah had been a white man, donahue would have eaten her liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti.
No he wouldn’t have. She’s twice as talented and virtually all other black female hosts flopped.
Happy Valentines Day
Are you saying that just because hes not black?
Chomsky is a smart guy defo. He gives the impression that he reads a lot.
Kevin Macdonald estimated ashkenazi iq at 115 or so in his book.
I personally think ashkenazis SD is different from whites and skews to the right. I would imagine there are no retardate jews or very very few.
Its because of all the genetic mutations…whatever force was selecting for this must have been very acute over the centuries.
IQ scores are typically calculated either in reference to the U.S. population or in reference to the U.S. white population. If you use the former U.S. Jewish IQ is closer to 115. If you use the latter (which is preferable because it’s less sensitive to demographic swings) it’s closer to 110.
9.4/315m = 2.98% of total us population in 2013.
Its 3.3% of us adults .
That includes a lot of half jews though like Bill Maher.
Yes, of adults. Mistake corrected.
Honestly, my dream job is border patrol guard. Im not even joking. I would do overtime for free and ‘interrogate’ suspects at leisure.
the extent to which one may do a job he likes and values is limited by the “free market”.
that is, one should not expect that the existing economy has a niche for him. but most do so assume. they mistake the social order at a particular time and place for the laws of physics.
Read this paper. It completely upends Cochran and friends’ little hypothesis.
How Jews Became Smart: Anti-“Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence
i’ll read it.
what i’ve said is:
cockring and harpoondick have no idea what rabbinic judaism is. if they did, they wouldn’t give the explanation they did.
and rabbinic judaism in europe was different from rabbinic judaism in north africa and the middle east. for the sephardim the shulchan aruch was enough. for the ashkenazim intensive study of the talmud was required.
that is, it’s the religion stupid. this is eric weinstein’s explanation too. and the sephardim and mizrahim are accomplished given their environs.
if all male roman catholics had been expected to study the Summa, they’d make jews look dumb.
Are you saying religion was a selection pressure on their IQ, or that it merely created an intellectual culture without affecting biology?
Interesting ! Chomsky must have been good at marketing because the other MIT professor , Robert Stalnaker, who is even more clever and creative, never had such an impact . Stalnaker should have done more economy, he would have been the only non professional economist winning a Bank of Sweden Nobel prize, thanks to his extraordinary mind.
Philo, the only interest of interrogating those people, is either catch their family and friends, either dismantling mafiosi org who would be automatically replaced . That sounds horrible and purposeless to me. I feel compassion for the hope most of those people have in their journey, even if I understand legitimate sovereignty rights not to welcome them, and that low middle class people would take legit ICE jobs.
Why are you assuming I would interrogate them for information?
That’s the meaning of interrogating, ask questions. Else it’s torture.
BINGO
Thats real bad philosopher. Dont you realise that is ‘evilness’?
chomsky has never said anything stupid…until recently.
1. he lies about why the US supports israel. he can’t really believe what he says.
2. he thinks global warming is a threat to the species homo. (if real it may be an in-convenience but it’s absolutely not a threat to the species.)
he’s 89 years old. for fuck’s sake!
most old men turn into irrational women.
if chomsky doesn’t come out as maximum IQ in peepee’s appraisal, then peepee is a bad appraiser. (of course this was known already.)
At Chomsky’s age, the maximum is too absurdly high for anyone to meet.
Which of my appraisals did you disagree with?
chomsky would hit the verbal ceiling but for the arithmetic and digit span.
would he score so high on the performance?
no one cares peepee. these are pure speed tests.
as far as “construct validity” goes, if chomsky doesn’t max the test then the test sucks.
it’s a test only chinks score high on.
At chomsky’s age performance subtests don’t require speed to score super high. It’s a beautiful age to be tested
construct validity: what is a smart person?
answer: noam chomsky
not chink rubic’s cube champion.
sad!
in honor of prof shoe’s latest post…thinking of the documentary Holding the Man…it’s not sad. it’s pathetic.
authentic christianity is diogenic.
the lead fag arranges for this to be played at his funeral at age about 30. died from butt sex.
At least he did not die from butthurt. (just trying to be funny XD)
this is why women should still be oppressed.
once they have power they want to turn all men into fags.
when i asked peepee what a super high PIQ was good for she told me it would help in making sandwiches.
No wonder I am hungry all the time.
I can’t get that damn mustard on the knife fast enough.
Seriously low PIQ over here.
this is the day of the victory of the italians over the irish, a few months after chomsky’s birth.
The latino community also needs to be respected. They are our future and are natural conservatives according to the investor class.
Pumpkin why do you have these weird racial issues anyway? We are all the same aside from the colour of our socks.
Off topic: Philosofers hero is back at it. The beard is a symbol of his greater wisdom (and tact).
He has a much larger vocabulary than most people. Might be from reading a lot of scripts or it could be natural.
In this cesspit world run by jews, on person used his fame and influence in a 100% jew controlled operation to expose them. It wasnt an intellectual or scientist or law enforcement person. It was an actor. Think about that.
peepee should watch rogan and hari. hari says everything i’ve said on this blog regarding depression and addiction. we came to these conclusions independently. i hadn’t heard of him before.
hari never addresses SCZ or any mental illness other than depression, anxiety, and addiction afaik. maybe he will in time. schizos don’t read books, so it’ll be in an article for huffpo or something like that if ever.
rogan is smarter than he sounds, but maybe not much more. he’s an arbitrageur. his arbitrage exists because the msm is corrupt.
btw, gibson’s views are from his father, a jeopardy champion.
Steve Shoe cited Rogan as a typical “high V, mediocre S” in one of his blog posts. I guess meaning that Rogan has a certain verbal facility and ability to connect ideas but poor ability to think rigorously and quantitatively. Makes sense to me.
Rogan’ s podcast has slowly become one of my new obsessions. I’m not into the meathead/nutrition stuff ( Race Realist might like it though). However I am a big fan of his interviews with entertainers, scholars, journalists, artists, ex-law enforcement, adventurerers, etc.
Mel gibson = life.
Mel gibson suffered much more than james damore career wise. If i recall he was supposed to be the director of suicide squad 2 but one of the jewish actors objected to him. He is far more talented as a director than most of the paedos and predators helming movies now.
I have a big point in common with Mel Gibson …. Both our father were big fervents of FSSPX. It was more common in France than in the USA/Australia though (100K persons out of 60M in France). Half of worldwide strict catholic traditionalist are still in France … but i have never been a believer. I wanted but I couldn’t . But I love dogma and fanaticism and I found repeating what my family believed gave me an aura into normal society like I came from the Middle Ages. It was more of a game for me. [redacted by pp, feb 15, 2018]
I was also very interested by Topeka Godhatesfag church. Fred Phleps were also a very gifted fanatic and all of his family. Very interesting people.
The Passion of the Christ made him $500m. he’s not suffering.
am i the only one google images isn’t working for? i got this from yahoo images.
google image working fine for me
the romans were not great philosophers. so far as they philo-soph-iz-ed they were building on the greeks.
the romans were a practical people.
aurelius was an emperor and a philosopher. imagine if a US president were taken seriously as a philosopher. that’s aurelius.
his thought was built on that of a pontic greek.
diogenes of sinope.
the romans are the original pragmatists.
and pragmatism is the best “theory of truth”.
Bert Gordon: When are you leaving?
Sarah Packard: In a little while. That’s what you want, isn’t it?
Bert Gordon: It’s what Eddie wants. He, uh, told me to give you some money. He stands over her, pulling a wad of bills from his pocket.
Sarah Packard: Put it on the bed. That’s the way it’s done, isn’t it?
Bert Gordon: (tossing it there) That’s the way it’s done.
Bert Gordon: [tossing it there] That’s the way it’s done.
Sarah Packard: And the way you’re looking at me, is that the way you look at a man you’ve just beaten? As if you’d just taken his money, and now all you want is … his pride?
Sarah Packard: And the way you’re looking at me, is that the way you look at a man you’ve just beaten? As if you’d just taken his money, and now all you want is… his pride?
Bert Gordon: All I want’s the money.
Sarah Packard: Sure, sure, just the money, and the aristocratic pleasure of seeing him fall apart. You’re a Roman, Bert. You have to win them all.
it’s interesting…(as chomsky would say)…
addiction per se is not a bad thing.
the bad thing is that sessions and ilk make the substance artificially scarce.
addiction per se is not bad for your health.
no south. no problem.
the civil war should never have been fought.
lincoln was pure evil.
Hahahaha.
Civil War didn’t have to be fought. Russian serfdom ended without a civil war.
before i transitioned to a black man i thought black women were the most discriminated against.
now i know they are the most privileged group.
Do you honestly believe that?
representation among the power elite is not a good metric of discrimination.
maybe these people should be white males…minus the jews.
this same group has the highest suicide rate.
yes. i honestly believe that if a black lesbian had a white man’s brain her path to the top would be easy.
Even holding IQ constant black women are poorer than white men. And that’s despite the fact that IQ tests are biased against blacks to some degree.
the “view image” button has disappeared.
You’re right it has disappeared
Thus, my best guess is Chomsky’s true IQ is 5 points lower than estimated above: 158, not 163.
Film scholar Robin Wood called Dune “the most obscenely homophobic film I have ever seen”,[25]–referring to a scene in which Baron Harkonnen sexually assaults and kills a young man by bleeding him to death–charging it with “managing to associate with homosexuality in a single scene physical grossness, moral depravity, violence and disease.”[25] Gay writer Dennis Altman suggested that the film showed how “AIDS references began penetrating popular culture” in the 1980s, asking, “Was it just an accident that in the film Dune the homosexual villain had suppurating sores on his face?”[26]
Trump is right. The right wing Israelis and the American jews are separate groups. How can I tell? Read the NYTs treatment of Netanyahu.
“He thrives on dividing people — exactly like Trump,” Mr. Avineri said.
Thats the kiss of death from our american jewish friends.
Ive also noticed for years that the Economist (Rothschild) is less than effusive of Likud.
If I had to guess, I’d say they put aside their differences for things like the Iraq War or killing muslims but there is a hint of distaste there that shows with the corruption scandal Netanyanhu has been charged with. There are powerful jews that really don’t like the Middle Eastern lebensraum movement for whatever reason.
Robert mentioned in passing Huffpost as an indicator one is ‘not at the races’. I sometimes wonder whether people that read more serious newspapers like NYT, WAPO or the Economist are any more aware of whats going on. Genuinely.
Ive said to people that the only honest news is celeb gossip and sport.
Krugman is right but I don’t think he realises how little support the cuckold/big business wing of the GOP really has. Its Trump that reinvigorated the party which before he came along wanted to become latino.
I think within my lifetime certainly, conservativism will become alt right in character and the Paul Ryan cuckold types will join the Democrat party. At the end of the day illegal immigrants and minorities share the same priorities as gentile and jewish Master – milking the white middle class.
One reason im so certain the alt right will devour the cuckolds is because they are smarter and have more energy. In the same way high IQ jews control the ‘left’, you expect high IQ gentiles to take over the right. The reason libertarians never took over the GOP is essentially because they are autistic usually. Alt righters dont have those cognitive issues.
First time ive logged onto the nyt homepage in 5 years. The guardian is the british equivalent. I stopped reading newspapers completely 2 years ago.
I remember spending hours reading the financial times and economist. Id go down the starbucks in stratford , get a caramel macchiato and delve in. I actually would read the economist if it was given to me. I like the reporting pieces and showcasing they do of topics and issues. Its funny remembering because my mind was much simpler back then. I have had a complete transfiguration in that time. It seems quaint now. I was recovering from my first psychotic episode in those times and the paranoia wasnt there yet. Just the ocd symptoms. Reading certain sentences again and again or flciking the page multiple times because it didnt feel fully read. Its sad how i can actually look back on that period as being much more normal . I was happier when i knew much less about the world.
I suppose thats why adults dont share all the more serious things in life with children until theyre older. You want them to be happy in ignorance for as lo g as possible. I sometimes remember that nixon quote on the tapes : and if we told them would that make anybody happier? That blacks score less than whites? What would it change? Maybe our elite does hide a few things from us for our own happinness. Just a thought.
In my old world the good guys were the liberals and the bad guys the republicans. Now i see both are the bad guys and both are the good guys. The jews using liberalism as a survival strategy and corrupy greedy getile plutocrats using the republicans to turn the us into a banana republic. Without the jewish strand , politics is the tug of war between classes isually. Its pretty open in latin america where a land owner conquistador hereditary elite are direct opponents to ‘the people’ . Fidel was a class traitor and an honest man. I read his memoir. He still believes in the revolution. I dont think he doesnt believe in it and was using it like stalin as a steppiing stone. A lot of latin american populists are pretty by the book. Not like their jewish counterparts in russia or the neoliberal tony blair mateo renzis types.
Just saw in the celeb gossip than Quincy Jones says he dated Ivanka Trump…..and knows who shot JFK…..and has 20-50 girlfriends….and turned down Marlyin Monroe because he didn’t like her chest….and that Marlon Brando slept with Richard Pryor……all in 1 interview.
I remember reading an an article last year where Jones claimed he met the actual german director of the Nazi propoganda movie Triumph of the Will and she agreed to meet him because she knew he was a ‘big ‘fan’.
Hmmm I bet 99% of the population don’t know blacks get diagnosed with schizo 5 times more than any other race….
It reminds of me of those gritty accounts you read from foreign aid workers in africa where they talk about how the local people act and what they believe. Its truly fascinating reading them, because they are a lot more insightful about Africa than anything mainstream youll read.
I don’t like to make fun of mentally ill people considering my own issues in this area….but blacks have a very cartoony form of schizo whenever I see it. I mean they are the people that shout at people on the street and dress up weird. Whites tend to have less gregarious forms of schiz.
If you wan’t to understand blacks, go to the mpc.dot fourms and type in ‘teachers account of teaching black students’ or ‘foreign aid worker in africa’. Theres more real anthropology there than in academia. I read these and I realise my instinctive ‘rac-ism’ immuno response is actually correct, as I suspected. Just as a I suspect my thoughts on jews are factually true.
Don’t disrespect Quincy…that guy was one of the great musical minds of the 20th century. He studied with Nadia Boulanger and produced the greatest pop album ever.
He probably is senile at this point but Pryor’ s widow admitted Pryor and Brando screwed around.
If I had to bet, a lot of people would openly call a person crazy and out of his mind if he was white and said some of the things you hear some blacks say. But because the person is black, people are either scared to say anything because it might sound insensitive or even worse….they think the schiz is just a part of their personality….like Michael Jackson or Kanye West.
I remember I used to think this about my mother when I was young I didn’t know anything about mental health. I used to think she just had a weird personality. By my teens it dawned on me my mother was extremely deranged. I only realised my dad was intellectually challenged when my aunt mentioned it to my sister. I grew up in a very ‘hillbilly’ ‘white trash’ place so there are many many people with pretty low IQs around.
There is a lot of incest or cousin marriage.
everyone is crazy in his own way. you may be lucky. i’m going to try to get the nih’s rare disease program to look at my dad and his brother’s case. it could be poisoning, mad cow disease, or a de novo mutation. apparently it happens sometimes that children will have a genetic disease and their parents won’t, not because the disease is recessive, but because it’s caused by a mutation in one of the parent’s gametes. at this point it seems very likely it’s a disease unknown to science. it could be this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerstmann%E2%80%93Str%C3%A4ussler%E2%80%93Scheinker_syndrome, but the parents lived into their 80s and never had any symptoms. it pisses me off that the doctors don’t care that they don’t know.
I would email someone who studies that disease. Because it’s so rare they might be interested in the case. And there must be a genetic sign & you already have your genome sequenced so should be easy to check.
given the late age of onset the most likely cause is a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy. so my dad and his brother would be the first cases of mad cow in the US. very unlikely, but still the most likely.
Oprah was sued for implying americans were at risk for mad cow disease under an obscure veggie libel law. Fortunately she won & following that show cattle feeding practices were altered. That was how she discovered Dr. Phil
You could make an argument that my sense of humour, creativity, and verbal reasoning are actually a part of my schiz. I am good at music for instance. So yeah, maybe in a strange way it is her personality. [redacted by pp, feb 16, 2018]
I remember a conversation with my psychiatrist. I admitted to some strange things I wont mention here….and even though I openly admitted that I did those things and desperately need help, as soon as I mentioned my former career and my intelligence levels, she started taking my views seriously again. It just goes to show people will give you latitude for ‘crazy’ behaviour as long as you have some other sort of social status signifier. In that case, I tried to explain racism is basically an aggressive immuno response. She didn’t buy it. Nearly bought it.
Interesting point. Relates to my realization a long time ago that even smart people use “social proof” in judging other’s likeability and intelligence.
Cult leaders say a lot of crazy absurd stuff and mature and often fairly sophisticated people believe them as well. That guy Scott Adams is right…humans beings are more a collection of instinctual heuristics than objective rational actors. I think he goes too far though when he says we have no free will. At least, I don’t want to believe that.(see the irony!!)
logic is a small but well developed academic field. i wonder to what extent this question has been investigated. that is, what is the best decision given too little information to be certain?
sometimes it is better to make the wrong decision that to make no decision at all, but most of the time making a decision one knows is the right decision is impossible no matter how smart one is because there simply isn’t enough information. follow your gut is usually the best advice. the heart knows what the mind cannot understand.
It depends if you have a better heart or a better brain 🙂
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q2KOQfZ0Zd0%3Fstart%3D20%26end%3D23
“view image”?
yahoo images.
this was NOT an economic decision.
why did google replace all of the gentile search engines?
…
there is a conspiracy…
but what that means exactly is unclear…
to me.
some may find this vid disturbing.
i think it’s hilarious.
Saw this a while ago. Impressive!😆
the funny part is the ‘roo holding the dog.
Oprah’s done such a good job promoting her new movie that its title has even leaked into Mug of Pee’s trolling, despite me never mentioning it
I thought the funniest part was the stunned look on the kangaroos face:
“I can’t believe it!!…..”
I saw that video a long time ago & was deeply disturbed but not for the reasons most people are. I felt ashamed for the kangaroo. For not only is it much dumber than the human but to lose a boxing match too (the one domain where the dumb do well) was too much humiliation to witness. The kangaroo just seemed so genetically inferior
i admit it. i do find larger labia minora more attractive up to a point, after which they’re gross.
it was like louis vs schmeling I.
Relevant information to IQ and creativity.
internal feedback and external feedback shape memory as retention, generation, and manipulation.
retention is access storage and retrieval by generation and manipulation.
generation is always internal, manipulation can be internal and external.
I would agree with you that Noam Chomsky is extraordinarily intelligent–no matter what anyone thinks of his political views–and whether his IQ is 158 or 163 or another number roughly 4 standard deviations from the mean is irrelevant to me. Clearly, he is one of the most brilliant intellectuals of his generation not engaged in mathematics or the physical sciences.
I would also agree with you that Ashkenazi Jews are probably smarter than the average non-Jewish white in the U.S., though I’m inclined to think that the advantage is smaller than you suggest. If I were to say which racial or ethnic group probably has the greatest IQ advantage, I would say Southeast Asians most likely hold that distinction. Just my observation. I haven’t been as impressed with Ashkenazis as a group. I also think that the IQ tests typically cited to support the supposed great Ashkenazi advantage were tainted by sampling errors.
One factor I think you seriously underestimate is something psychologists have come to call “grit”–the determination to succeed. That characteristic alone can make up for a multitude of intelligence failings and mediocrity. First- and second-generation Americans tend to exhibit “grit” to a much greater degree than other Americans. Books are available on this subject, and when you write about material success as a function of IQ, I think you are generally neglecting this point.
The advange Pumpkin suggest is only 5 points . I don’t see how it could be less than that. Then if you want to explain by another favor than ethnic preference the 30% nobel prize (in highly g loaded field), the 50% pundits, NY law firm partners , investment banks Executives etc … you could add chess, and piano and violin that are not as g loaded. Also art dealers. Film and music industry producers and artists. The advantage should be 15 points (for verbal and numerical) . You don’t find many of them in sports for example. They are were you need g and crystallized intelligence (lots of practice ). Jewish should be respected for what they brought to the USA and the world . I love them ! I would have liked to be an askenazim myself .
Drugs are a very very bad thing Bruno.
Not drugs but a lot of wine during a lovely dinner. You’re right philo, I was tipsy .
What does 5 points mean? What’s doe 100 mean compared to 105? 105 to 110?
i wonder if pill knows that philo was a jew.
Bruno, I’ve got several explanations for you, one of which is at the end of previous post (read the last paragraph). But first, you write, “Jewish should be respected for what they brought to the USA and the world . I love them !” Let’s be clear here: I’m not saying anything against Jews per se. I think they’re fine people, and I’m no bigot. When I wrote, “I haven’t been as impressed with Ashkenazis as a group,” I thought the context was clear–compared to Southeast Asians. I’m simply saying that I don’t think the advantage is as great as 5 points, and of course, I don’t know. I could be wrong. It’s my particular estimation.
However, the Asian advantage over the white mean IQ was previously estimated at 3 to 5 points, Israeli Ashkenazis apparently have been shown to have a mean IQ of 103, and I am suggesting that Southeast Asians as a group are actually smarter–in my opinion. That’s what I’ve seen. I live in a large U.S. city, and I’ve grown up around Ashkenazi Jews, whom I’m perfectly fine with, but it never occurred to me that they were significantly smarter than average until the theory was first popularized by Murray and Herrnstein, who based their estimation on the Cochrane and Harpending study, which I’ve read a fair amount about. The whole explanation Cochrane and Harpending gave for the great Ashkenazi IQ advantage they claimed was quite farfetched, and as far as I know, not many people are buying it these days.
So in fact, I’m suggesting that the Ashkenazi advantage might be around 3 points. Maybe it’s a really huge advantage, for all I know. But I’ll discuss the difficulties of ascertaining that further below.
The points you raise about Ashkenazi representation in various fields is often made. But
(1) read the last paragraph of my previous post;
(2) consider the following statistical calculation and comment:
At a mean IQ of 100, there are almost 70,500 people with an IQ of 135 or higher out of a population equal to the (rough) statistics for the U.S. Jewish population of 2017 (statistics based on a calculation using the normal distribution). Halve that number to allow for children (which I believe would be lower than the current ratio of adults to children, but I’m not going to spend time looking up the numbers). So if the mean IQ of Ashkenazis were equal to the white mean, 35,250 would be more than enough to account for the Jewish representation in those areas, if you consider success to be strictly a function of IQ–which I don’t. Consider also that an IQ of 135 is already the 99th percentile, following, once again, the normal distribution. Some people claim the 99th percentile is the threshold for “genius.” (I make no such claims.) But if we use the strict IQ basis for explaining success, a mean IQ of 103 would result in a greater number of people represented in the fields you cite.
(3) note that Ashkenazis are concentrated on the East Coast, which is the center of finance, which can help account for their presence on Wall Street and in investment banking;
(4) you clearly have a higher opinion of Hollywood than I; whereas most of the world may consume Hollywood entertainment to a large degree, the esteem in which it’s held is significantly lower than in the U.S.;
(5) one can easily explain over-representation of a given group in certain fields through conditional probability and a couple of cultural assumptions (such as the high respect among Ashkenazis for science and medicine, for example–shared by those who don’t excel at them as well as those who do);
(6) the vast majority of Nobel recipients are American, which European scientists and researchers have been complaining about for quite a long time, and American universities actually aggressively lobby the Nobel Committee, which you might not have known;
(7) consider that, as is well known, people can be overachievers, just as they can be underachievers; then reread the last paragraph of my previous post again;
(8) and some psychologists, among them the famous Jewish psychologist Steven Jay Gould, have argued that the high estimate of Ashkenazi Jewish IQ was incorrect; Gould was hardly unaware of Jewish representation in the fields you cite.
Now, once again, I’m not arguing that Ashkenazis do not have an IQ advantage over non-Jewish whites. I’m simply saying I think it’s overestimated. It’s not that I know, but I have a reasonable basis for my opinion. And my experience tends to support it as well. If the IQ advantage were as great as Cochrane and Harpending claimed, one would find that in the average classroom with both Jewish and white non-Jewish students, at least half to three-quarters of the Jewish students would be the best students in the class. Now, again, I grew up and went to school with Ashkenazi Jewish kids, and that was not my experience. I have seen Asians especially shine, however.
What could account for sampling errors in the IQ studies?
Well, first consider that those studies are all over the map, as Richard Lynn discussed in his review of them. Second, consider the difficulty inherent in finding a representative sampling of “Ashkenazi” Jews. To say that Ashkenazis constitute an ethnic group is misleading and probably represents the fundamental error at the root of the sampling problems. “Ashkenazi Jews” are those Jews, typically with their ancestry in Europe, who follow the Ashkenazi traditions of Judaism–as well as their non-religious family, who identify as Jews (in much the same way that someone raised in a Christian family but is non-religious might say he or she was raised in a Christian culture). Ashkenazis are not, to my knowledge, ethnically homogeneous (contrary to the views of racial anti-Semites, such as the Nazis). Their ancestry is from countries as diverse as France, Germany, Italy, Russia, Romania, Ukraine, Poland, and Lithuania, among others. Do you honestly imagine they don’t have ethnic ties to the peoples of those countries? This alone could account for IQ variation and higher numbers that could cluster in certain areas.
Third, Jews in America, though mostly concentrated around major cities, do not all attend public schools, and some of the religious schools they attend will not do any IQ testing whatever. Ipso facto, the sampling is unrepresentative, by how much I don’t know.
Finally, I would agree that Ashkenazis have enjoyed an intellectual Renaissance over the last two hundred years or so (more or less since the Emancipation, which occurred at different times in different places). But they haven’t seen a significant number of great scholars, scientists, mathematicians, and thinkers for much longer. There have been Jews of great genius throughout the ages, of course. Please note that Spinoza was not an Ashkenazi.
There you have it. And that is my last word on this subject.
philo of alexandria.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo
” If I were to say which racial or ethnic group probably has the greatest IQ advantage, I would say Southeast Asians most likely hold that distinction.”
I would say coastal north east asians. Esp koreans from the north to chinese down to the yangtze river coast. Because of cold weather, sea food, large pop and food grown in fertile river deltas. I always believed that coastal people esp those who also eat crops grown at the deltas of long rivers are smarter than people inland. And throw in cold weather and a large pop to give rise to high iq mutations.
Later it turned out my instincts about the river and coast combo were right. The smartest provinces in china well atleast those i found the info on, have the same conditions and the cold weather,large pop compared to other countries.
Of course jews are an exception to this coastal, river, large pop rule. I think they are just as smart. The nobel prizes can be influenced by lobbying yes but even the research that went up upto the nobels i mean the research that may have won the second or third place….had jewish representation as much as the research that won. How do you explain that? And regarding jewish kids underperformance compared to chinese or even indian kids in schools, does it take into account the number of hours studied? Indian and chinese kids study for more hours.
Credit to Chomsky, he is the first major academic to write about how the media is a fraud and mind control operation. I havent read Manufacturing Consent but its supposed to be a good overview.
there’s a documentary. Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media.
the ‘roo didn’t lose. he wasn’t even hurt.
maybe you’ve never had a dog.
but that’s how they are. “the ‘roo is my new master.” the dog wasn’t complaining and the ‘roo wasn’t hurting him.
despite its short arms, it’s as strong as a gorilla…and if it had kicked the human…
a human wins a fight with a red ‘roo or chimp only by a head lock. and this may be impossible. i couldn’t even hold my airdale bitch when the mailman rang.
…airedale.