The legendary Jensen box
Tests of simple Reaction Time (RT) show a moderate negative correlation with IQ. Negative because when it comes to reaction time, lower times (measured in milliseconds) imply higher IQ because they’re faster. Simple reaction time is measured by having you put your finger on a home button while you wait for one of the lights on the Jensen box to flash. The faster you can remove your finger from the home button, the faster your reaction time, and the faster you can press the button for the flashing light, the faster your movement time.
The correlation between IQ and reaction gets stronger still when it becomes choice reaction time. Here for example, three lights might flash, and you must press the button of the light most distant from the other two.
On page 165 of Clocking the Mind Arthur Jensen writes:
In a truly random sample of 900 middle-aged adults (age around 56 years) in Scotland, the observed RT-IQ correlation for simple RT and 4-choice RT were -0.31 and -0.49 respectively. This sample included the full range of IQs in the population, the distribution of both RT and IQ were close to normal (perfectly Gaussian for the middle 95% of the distribution), and the RT-IQ correlations did not differ significantly between subgroups defined by age, social class, education and error rates in the 4-choice RT
High IQ minds not only show faster reaction times, but more consistent ones too. Indeed when you take a composite score of the speed and variability of RT across a wide range of elementary cognitive tasks, you get a 0.67 correlation with IQ. However Jensen notes on page 229 of The g Factor that this correlation is based on college kids who have a restricted range of IQ and when you correct for this, the correlation becomes at least 0.77! And if composite RT measures correlate 0.77 with IQ, they might correlate as high as 0.9 with a hypothetically pure measure of g (general intelligence).
Critics might argue that even such a high correlation proves nothing, since it only reflects exposure to video games and other middle class amenities. It’s certainly true that RT, especially complex RT can be influenced by practice, however on page 244 of Jensen’s The g Factor, he notes that even when everyone has a chance to practice their RTs until practice effects plateau, the correlation with IQ only diminishes by 15%. So instead of the g loading for composite RT measures being 0.9, it’s likely around 0.77 after everyone’s had a change to maximize performance, which is still higher than many psychometric IQ tests!
And if composite RT scores were carefully combined with other neurological variables like MRI in vivo brain size, the g loading could exceed 0.8.
In Clocking the Mind, Jensen dreamed of a World where you go to your doctor and along with measuring your height, weight, heart rate and blood pressure, you’re also given a routine RT test. You would practice until performance plateaus and this would serve as your baseline against which a sudden decline in speed and consistency might signal dementia. One advantage of chronometric testing is that unlike psychometric IQ tests, measures of RT can be repeated as many times as desired without invalidating the measure.
Another advantage of RT is it’s much harder to fake cognitive disability to escape criminal responsibility because fake slow RTs are so conspicuously slow, they are outside even the impaired range.
Of course as commenter Race Realist would say, correlation does not equal causation, so we don’t know whether RT is causing IQ, IQ is causing RT, or if some other variable is causing both. But as commenter Mug of Pee implied, the litmus test for causation is “preceding in time” and omnipresent. It’s hard to prove RT comes earlier in time than IQ does unless there are some infant RT tests, but there is evidence that the correlation occurs even within the same family, suggesting some degree of omnipresence.
The next step in proving causation is showing the RT-IQ correlation exists in every country. One problem is the correlation was lacking in a sample of South African blacks however Jensen argues this was because the IQ test given had too little variance in that sample.
Ultimately evidence for RT causing IQ comes from the failure of any other way to explain the correlation. Some have suggested the correlation is caused by health, practice or social class, but the correlation would likely hold even with these variables controlled.
Pumpkin Person 
In other words, low-IQ subjects regularly produce RTs equal to those of high-IQ subjects, but with less consistency over trials. This lack of consistency may well reflect poor self-confidence and high test anxiety and their effects on information processing, incursions of extraneous cognition, sensory distractions and so on. This interpretation is reinforced by Jensen’s 1998 (p. 224) report that RT significantly correlates (.45) with Extraversion scores on the Eysenck Personality Inventory. Ratings on the EPI are related to high self-efficacy beliefs, self-confidence, freedom-from-anxiety and other aspects of `emotional well-being’ (Peterson, Maier, & Seligman, 1993). Again it seems reasonable to suggest that any common source of variance in IQ and ECTs originates in the sociocognitive-affective nexus described above.—Richardson, 2002: What IQ Tests Test
Even Detterman notes that individual differences in RT can stem from misunderstanding instructions, familiarity with the test instruments, to motivation to do the task, sensory acuity, learned response strategies, attention arousal, confidence and anxiety.
http://psycnet.apa.org/record/1987-98619-005
That also ties into the sociocognitive-affective nexus described by Richardson.
Reaction time tells nothing about ‘intelligence’. As I’m sure you know, Galton tried and failed to use RT as a measure of social class. RT is just not that good a measure.
http://journals.bmsu.ac.ir/ijmr/index.php/ijmr/article/view/29/72
Which studies does Jensen cite for those correlations? I’ve seen between .2 to .3 correlations, are you talking about Deary’s studies?
densen cites his own studies that he made up. he’s already been shown to be a [redacted by pp, Jan 30, 2018]. flushton has been shown to be a [redacted by pp, Jan 30, 2018].
plus RT is NOT a physiological variable. especially as densen claims to measure it.
these frauds also claim that the SD of RT has a stronger correlation with IQ test scores than the mean RT.
In other words, low-IQ subjects regularly produce RTs equal to those of high-IQ subjects, but with less consistency over trials. This lack of consistency may well reflect poor self-confidence and high test anxiety and their effects on information processing, incursions of extraneous cognition, sensory distractions and so on.
Anxiety decreases as people become more familiar with a task, which is why it’s so important to give people enough practice trials that practice effects plateau and only then Jensen argues, do you get a baseline performance from which physiological function is inferred.
Even Detterman notes that individual differences in RT can stem from misunderstanding instructions, familiarity with the test instruments, to motivation to do the task, sensory acuity, learned response strategies, attention arousal, confidence and anxiety.
Familiarity effects and anxiety can be reduced by practice trials. And lots of physiological measures can be affected by other variables can they not? Heart rate and blood pressure affected by stress and emotion?
Reaction time tells nothing about ‘intelligence’. As I’m sure you know, Galton tried and failed to use RT as a measure of social class. RT is just not that good a measure.
Chronometrics has advanced a lot since Galton’s day. For one thing Galton only used simple reaction time (modern studies use a composite score of simple RT, many types of complex RT, and RT consistency) and Galton only gave folks one try, while modern studies give many practice trials and your score is an average of many trials across multiple RT tasks, and social class is only a rough proxy for intelligence anyway.
Which studies does Jensen cite for those correlations? I’ve seen between .2 to .3 correlations, are you talking about Deary’s studies?
The single best study was probably Deary et al.’s where -0.3 and -0.49 correlations were found between IQ and a) simple RT and b) complex RT, respectively, in a representative sample of 900 scots, however the correlation goes way up when you combine half a dozen different RT tasks, especially when you combine them in such a way as to maximize predictive power, and when you measure not just RT speed but RT consistency across trials of the same task. Jensen cites a 1988 review by Vernon called “intelligence and speed of information processing” published in human intelligence newsletter (though I can’t find this source) where such a composite chronometric measure correlated 0.67 with IQ in restricted samples, though Jensen predicts that adjusted for range restriction, the correlation would be at least 0.77.
“Anxiety decreases as people become more familiar with a task, which is why it’s so important to give people enough practice trials that practice effects plateau and only then Jensen argues, do you get a baseline performance from which physiological function is inferred.”
High task anxiety is a problem though. Quoting Richardson—Demystifying g
Since HTA produces more erratic reaction times, this would explain why the biggest correlate of g is not mean (or median) speed of response, but response variation. It also explains the lack of correlation between Nerve Conduction Velocity (however crudely measured) and RT.
And it’s not only familiarity with the task at hand, there’s a whole lot more that comes into play with RT.
“Familiarity effects and anxiety can be reduced by practice trials. And lots of physiological measures can be affected by other variables can they not? Heart rate and blood pressure affected by stress and emotion?”
Right. There are still other factors in the sociocognitive-affective preparedness nexus, though, that would decrease RT. Yes heart rate and BP are affected by stress and emotion, I’ve written a bit on that. However the variables brought up by Detterman explain more about individual differences in RT than ‘processing speed’.
“Chronometrics has advanced a lot since Galton’s day. For one thing Galton only used simple reaction time (modern studies use a composite score of simple RT, many types of complex RT, and RT consistency) and Galton only gave folks one try, while modern studies give many practice trials and your score is an average of many trials across multiple RT tasks, and social class is only a rough proxy for intelligence anyway.”
Whichever way you slice it, RT is not a good measure. The review is cited shows that, showing many reasons why its not a good measure, most importantly in my opinion, that different machines are used to measure RT. Either way, no matter which measures of RT Galton used, he was unsuccessful in his endeavor. Intelligence doesn’t ’cause’ social class. Die to population stratification, there are genetic differences, between classes due to migration, albeit irrelevant to educational attainment and cognitive abilities. This is then where the sociocognitive-affective paradigm from Richardson comes into play and is why lower social classes score low on IQ tests in comparison to higher classes.
“The single best study was probably Deary et al.’s where -0.3 and -0.49 correlations were found between IQ and a) simple RT and b) complex RT, respectively, in a representative sample of 900 scots, however the correlation goes way up when you combine half a dozen different RT tasks, especially when you combine them in such a way as to maximize predictive power, and when you measure not just RT speed but RT consistency across trials of the same task. Jensen cites a 1988 review by Vernon called “intelligence and speed of information processing” published in human intelligence newsletter (though I can’t find this source) where such a composite chronometric measure correlated 0.67 with IQ in restricted samples, though Jensen predicts that adjusted for range restriction, the correlation would be at least 0.77.”
To the best of my knowledge, raw RT scores are never cited, only the ‘corrected’ versions are. It’s kinda like the job performance/IQ debate. True correlations are between .2 and . 3 but when ‘corrected’ (with dubious assumptions) they become inflated to around .5. Do you know the sample size for the Vernon paper?
The conundrum of social class (which is different and explains more than the abstract ‘SES’) and sociocognitive-affective nexus are not addressed in these studies, though. It’s clear that low IQ people regularly produce similar RTs compared to high IQ people. Now we just need to explain the variability and the explanation is the sociocognitive-affective nexus.
High task anxiety is a problem though. Quoting Richardson—Demystifying g
Since HTA produces more erratic reaction times, this would explain why the biggest correlate of g is not mean (or median) speed of response, but response variation.
We don’t know why RT variation predicts IQ. Daniel Seligman used the analogy of a bad phone line where sometimes the message gets through right away, while other times it gets stuck in static, and said those with denser more redundant brain wiring will get the message more consistently, hence less variable RTs. That would be the HBD interpretation and Jensen called it the neural noise hypothesis. I doubt many people would still have anxiety after they practice RT tasks thousands of times so if variability still predicts g after extreme practice, there’s probably a deeper cause than just anxiety. More research needed.
Right. There are still other factors in the sociocognitive-affective preparedness nexus, though, that would decrease RT. Yes heart rate and BP are affected by stress and emotion, I’ve written a bit on that. However the variables brought up by Detterman explain more about individual differences in RT than ‘processing speed’.
Not necessarily. Variables like misunderstanding instructions, familiarity with the test instruments, learned response strategies, confidence and anxiety might explain initial differences in RT but they’re unlikely to explains much after hours of practice on these very simple tasks. And if someone lacks motivation, they’re unlikely to get through all the practice trials needed before practice effects plateau and poor motivation produces RTs so absurdly slow they are obvious outliers.
Whichever way you slice it, RT is not a good measure. The review is cited shows that, showing many reasons why its not a good measure, most importantly in my opinion, that different machines are used to measure RT.
That doesn’t make it a poor measure, it just means it hasn’t been standardized yet.
Intelligence doesn’t ’cause’ social class.
You used to be an IQ enthusiast and it’s healthy that you’ve become a skeptic, but the danger is swinging too far from one extreme to another. Realistically intelligence probably does cause socio-economic status to some degree. How could it not? If your brain works well you’re more likely to get through school, avoid jail, make wise career decisions, be productive in your work, etc, and these behaviors will often cause better jobs and pay. That’s not to deny the huge role that other factors play but Murray showed that even among siblings within the same family, IQ measured in teens predicts social class in adulthood. Within family correlations are especially informative because they control for so many of the between family differences that influence both IQ scores and later status and suggest an intrinsic relationship.
To the best of my knowledge, raw RT scores are never cited, only the ‘corrected’ versions are. It’s kinda like the job performance/IQ debate. True correlations are between .2 and . 3 but when ‘corrected’ (with dubious assumptions) they become inflated to around .5.
When correlations are calculated in samples with restricted range of IQ, it will underestimate the correlation in the general population so they are corrected to reflect what the correlations would be if the full range of ability were included. But in the Deary study, there was no need to correct because the sample included the full range.
Do you know the sample size for the Vernon paper?
On page 171 of Clocking the Mind Jensen writes: Vernon (1988) reviewed four independent studies totaling 702 subjects.
especially when you combine them in such a way as to maximize predictive power
this is meaningless without an out of sample check. any random data can be combined in a way which maximizes some criterion like correlation.
show us the out of sample check and your tits.
this is meaningless without an out of sample check. any random data can be combined in a way which maximizes some criterion like correlation.
Ever heard of a shrunken R?
You’re stupid.
It’s clear that low IQ people regularly produce similar RTs compared to high IQ people.
indeed. pro athletes are not known for their brilliance.
but i did have an experience in school. one was a yuge fat retard. i mean he took the short bus to school. he was an authentic retard. another was just a dumb kid. they were bigger and stronger than i was but they were incredibly slow so i always won.
the very name “complex RT” means it’s not RT anymore. and RT per se is not a physiological variable like speed of nerve impulse.
taller people have higher IQs says peepee. but taller people should have longer reaction times due to the greater distance from brain to hand.
RR, Mugabe
“indeed. pro athletes are not known for their brilliance.”
That’s not true.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5405064/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19429191
“Either way, no matter which measures of RT Galton used, he was unsuccessful in his endeavor. ”
I think it does matter, if it’s unsuccessful because of methodological limitations, correcting them should yield more accurate results. According to Pumpkin, newer studies support his view.
“only the ‘corrected’ versions are.”
How exactly are these corrections, unwarranted? can you explain in detail?
“I think it does matter, if it’s unsuccessful because of methodological limitations, correcting them should yield more accurate results. According to Pumpkin, newer studies support his view.”
Not only RT, but all of the tests he devised didn’t produce the rank order of class either. He also used tests such as visual discrimination. Either way, the review I cited above goes through the problems with Galton, and the claims thst ‘the Victorians were more “intelligent” than us’. Either way, people from different social classes performed the same on his RT tests.
“How exactly are these corrections, unwarranted? can you explain in detail?”
Because the raw scores, what they were before corrections (for instance like range restriction) matters more (the actual raw times they got) than what was ‘corrected’.
still waiting for a single piece of evidence in support of densen’s claims.
like peepee meLo is half chink. this is bevause meLo and peepee are the same nigger chink dyke.
there’s not point in arguing with them.
outside of the visuo-spatial factor they’re all too dumb for europeans to even speak to.
“We don’t know why RT variation predicts IQ”
Sociocognitive-affective nexus is a solid explanation. I doubt it’s ‘processing speed’ or whatnot.
“Daniel Seligman used the analogy of a bad phone line where sometimes the message gets through right away, while other times it gets stuck in static, and said those with denser more redundant brain wiring will get the message more consistently, hence less variable RTs”
I don’t think that’s warranted at the moment when you have to account for that nexus described above.
“Not necessarily. Variables like misunderstanding instructions, familiarity with the test instruments, learned response strategies, confidence and anxiety might explain initial differences in RT but they’re unlikely to explains much after hours of practice on these very simple tasks”
You would be incorrect. Large practice effects exist and the difference becomes negligible. See the paper Nettlebeck, T., & Vita, P. (1992). IT in two childhood cohorts. British Journal of
Psychology, 10, 189197
“That doesn’t make it a poor measure, it just means it hasn’t been standardized yet”
How would you standardize an RT test?
“You used to be an IQ enthusiast and it’s healthy that you’ve become a skeptic, but the danger is swinging too far from one extreme to another. Realistically intelligence probably does cause socio-economic status to some degree. How could it not? If your brain works well you’re more likely to get through school, avoid jail, make wise career decisions, be productive in your work, etc, and these behaviors will often cause better jobs and pay. That’s not to deny the huge role that other factors play but Murray showed that even among siblings within the same family, IQ measured in teens predicts social class in adulthood. Within family correlations are especially informative because they control for so many of the between family differences that influence both IQ scores and later status and suggest an intrinsic relationship.”
I know the danger. Kinda like how Nessa Carey writes in her book The Epigenetic Revolution how hardline epigeneticists undermine the genome but, of course, the truth is somewhere in the middle of two extremes. (Though I’m not being extreme.)
What was Murray’s social class measure? The old and tried, abstract ‘SES’? Social class is way more than SES. Either way, individuals don’t experience the same environment in the same ways.
Think of it in terms of cultural tools. Nature vs nurture is irrelevant, I don’t know if you agree or not but that’s beside the point. What we do have are self-organizing dynamical, developmental systems that, in a way, drive their own evolution. These dynamical, developmental systems use not only biological tools (eyes, hands, ears etc) but cultural tools as well. Now think of humans regarding this DST philosophy. We’re just self-organizing dynamical systems that use cultural tools. Though this differential access to these cultural tools explains so-called ‘intelligence’ differences between individuals (along with test construction) and social classes.
Regarding what I touched on above about social class stratification and how it keeps genetic stratification between classes: we are a migratory species. So social classes are in fact, kind of ‘genetic classes’ if you will, due to migration. So social stratification creates cognitive differences. Social stratification then maintains genetic stratification which then affect IQ test results since cognitive tests reflect previous social stratification which then goes back to developmental systems and cultural tools which are reflected in the IQ test and differential access to these cultural tools. So we have genetic differences between classes that are irrelevant to cognitive ability and educational attainment. This is why GWAS finds low correlations with the two aforementioned variables. This is why these small correlations arise with GWAS studies. And all of this, too, could explain differential abilities in the RT task. GWAS correlations are explained by social class and genetic stratification which are irrelevant to cognitive ability and educational attainment.
“When correlations are calculated in samples with restricted range of IQ, it will underestimate the correlation in the general population so they are corrected to reflect what the correlations would be if the full range of ability were included. But in the Deary study, there was no need to correct because the sample included the full range.”
‘Would be’ takes a lot of assumptions. The raw scores matter way more in my opinion because it shows the variability in RT that’s already there.
Regarding what I touched on … irrelevant to cognitive ability and educational attainment.
what rr is trying to say is that the direction of causation is not resolved by existing studies. that is, it might be social class (C) causes both genetic stratification (G) and variation in IQ. rather than G -> IQ -> C, the reality might be C -> G and C -> IQ. HBDers habitually confuse correlation with causation.
and as rr says, social class is a lot more than income and wealth. this means “stratification” is not the best term. the various classes can’t be put in linear order. a better term would be “partitioning”.
but contra rr IQ tests will measure intelligence. why? because humans are a social animal. a solitary human would be naked, starving, and dumb (he’d never learn to speak). that is, being part of the “in-crowd” really does make one smarter. those who have been cast into outer darkness may have the same potential, but their potential is not realized. that is, the IQ test can be culturally biased in two ways. 1. it can measure familiarity with a particular culture. 2. it can measure familiarity with human culture per se. there is no “culture of the poor” or “black culture”. this is dupe talk, in eric weinstein’s sense of “dupe”.
RR,Mugabe
“nigger chink dyke.”
LOL I bet that took you all night.
“(Though I’m not being extreme.)”
It’s pretty extreme when you anthropomorphize biological systems, deny feedback loops, hand wave counter-evidence etc.
“Though this differential access to these cultural tools explains so-called ‘intelligence’ differences between individuals (along with test construction) and social classes.”
So what you’re saying, is that these cultural tools catalyze the algorithms produced by these dynamics. But what seems to have flown over your head is that: 1) not all properties of these systems are equal in temporal dynamism.and 2) intra-generational accumulation on the epigenome can be and is accompanied by inter-generational change of the genome which are of course subject to the laws of adaptational selection.
“The raw scores matter way more in my opinion because it shows the variability in RT that’s already there.”
But the deary study did not use corrected values, because it had full range. So obviously the variability of the previous studies(with inflated correlations) is not reflective of the true variability in the trait as you contend, assuming that Pumpkin is correct when he claims the deary study is the most methodologically sound.
“It’s pretty extreme when you anthropomorphize biological systems, deny feedback loops, hand wave counter-evidence etc.”
No I don’t. Should I just accept your citations and concede the argument without a rebuttal? Unlike you, I address the papers you cite, you handwave What IQ Tests Test because ‘feedback loops’, yet I just largely described the logic of the argument above.
How do I anthropomorphize biological systems? By calling them intelligent, self-organizing systems that can in a way direct their own evolution? Or is it denying the nature-nurture paradigm and pushing developmental systems theory? Does DST anthropomorphize biological systems?
“But the deary study did not use corrected values, because it had full range. So obviously the variability of the previous studies(with inflated correlations) is not reflective of the true variability in the trait as you contend, assuming that Pumpkin is correct when he claims the deary study is the most methodologically sound.”
The social class of the head of household, using the traditional sixfold classification, was derived according to the United Kingdom Registrar General’s Classification of Occupations (OPCS, 1980). Women are classified by their partner’s occupation if married or cohabiting.
http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/s0160-2896(01)00062-9
What is the traditional sixfold classification?
Individuals are assigned to the classes first by being allocated to an occupational group according to the kind of work they do, then each occupational group is assigned as a whole to one of the Social Classes. Finally, individuals are reassigned to different Social Classes if their employment status suggests that this is necessary – e.g. foremen in Social Class IV may be moved to Class IIIM.
http://celsius.lshtm.ac.uk/modules/socio/se040100.html
Oh…. just a measure of occupation, nothing more.
Looks like just another ‘SES’ indicator to me and thusly is not ‘social class’.
Social class is literally more than occupation/SES.
“not all properties of these systems are equal in temporal dynamism”
Why are you reducing the system? Reductionism is exactly what systems biology—a holistic view of biology—avoids.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3710203/
Either way, the point about dynamical, developmental systems with differential access to the cultural tools needed to take and score high on IQ tests is a cogent theory to explain IQ differences. The sociocognitive-affective nexus has good explanatory power.
“intra-generational accumulation on the epigenome can be and is accompanied by inter-generational change of the genome which are of course subject to the laws of adaptational selection.”
The underlying nucleotide sequence stays the same but differences are inherited due to environmental stressors. I’ve stated in the past that these inherited marks on the genome (through histone modification, DNA methylation, which then alter the chromatin structure of the DNA. Further, this would show up on heritability estimates as ‘genetic’ when the ’cause’ was ‘environmental’ in nature (which is also yet another reason that heritability estimates are inflated).
DNA methylation, histone modification and noncoding RNA all can affect the structure of chromatin. As of now, the mechanisms of mitotic inheritance aren’t too well known, but advances in the field are coming.
If you want to talk the P and F1 generations regarding transgenerational epigenetics, then you must realize that these changes do not occur on the genome, the genome remains the same, just certain genes are expressed differently (as I’m sure you know). Though mi-MRNA signals can change the DNA methylation patterns in the F2 sperm which then is replicated in meiotic and mitotic cycles. (
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4517414/
If you’d like something similar for how DNA methylation persists, then this (semiconservative) replication of DNA methylation occurs on both strands of the DNA which then become hemimethylated DNA which can then become fully methylated by methylase maintenance. So chromatin structure affects the genetic expression of the eukaryotic genome which then becomes the basis for epigenetic effects.Xist RNA also mediates the X-chromosome deactivation. This doesn’t even get into how and why the microbiome can also affect gene expression (which has also been called ‘the second genome’ http://sci-hub.tw/10.1007/s13238-010-0093-z with other authors calling it an ‘organ’ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5414803/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4456003/ this can also affect gene expression and heritable variation that becomes the target of selection (along with the other modes of selection) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4389776/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3552296/ )
And I stated something similar to I just quoted from you the other day in the Jensen thread except it was about development (which epigenetic/transgenerational epigenetic changes also play a part in).
I also think this quote from the first citation is apt for this conversation:
Psychology is not applied biology, nor is biology applied chemistry. We can now see that the whole becomes not merely more, but very different from the sum of its parts.
“Should I just accept your citations and concede the argument without a rebuttal?Unlike you, I address the papers you cite, you handwave What IQ Tests Test because ‘feedback loops’, yet I just largely described the logic of the argument above.”
How do I anthropomorphize biological systems? By calling them intelligent, self-organizing systems that can in a way direct their own evolution? Or is it denying the nature-nurture paradigm and pushing developmental systems theory? Does DST anthropomorphize biological systems?”
I don’t expect you to give up. However, if my citations provide the evidence I need to counter your argument, you need to display the appropriate rebuttal or just move on.
I’m still waiting on 3 separate posts in your blog for a reply, all of which are dependent upon you reading the citations I provided, so it’s funny you’d accuse me of that, hypocritical as usual. I replied to each point by Richardson and others that you brought up, I don’t handwave culture, I just don’t downplay or elevate it’s importance relative to genetics, like you.
Speaking of, it seems you do understand my point after all, though I should elaborate that by “epigenome” I mean the altered genome and by “genome” I mean the genome present at post-conception. But I don’t want to unintentionally obfuscate, my point essentially being that accumulated variation is also inherited. Since you agree with this, it’s concerning that you don’t get that this means the systems themselves are just as responsible as the cultural devices used regarding individual differences in intelligence.
This stems from your anthropomorphic language. When you say that systems are “intelligent, self aware, conscious, direct their own evolution etc.” you sound just as stupid as pumpkin when he says “more evolved” or “progressive” when describing evolution. It’s not rooted in any biological reality, but instead subjective ideology. Dennis noble didn’t call genes “slaves” because they are actually slaves, that’s impossible, a gene is a gene and does what a gene does, no more, no less, and it’s plasticity is not evidence of sentience. He called them that because he wanted to downplay their importance, which is counter intuitive to a holistic view of evolution.
Furthermore, this is not an appeal to motive anymore than it is when pointing out the racist assumptions of lynn and rushton, it’s the Occam’s razor when an esteemed scientist has to resort to fallacious wordplay and semanticism so he can prove an ideological point. You didn’t have to ride his coattails either, you could have just argued holism without resorting to such ignorant verbosity but no, because you have an ideology to “prove” too. If you want to be taken seriously then you need to drop the provocative language immediately, and start acting like the scholar you wish you were. You’d quickly realize you and I agree on quite a bit.
“Why are you reducing the system? Reductionism is exactly what systems biology—a holistic view of biology—avoids.”
No intelligent individual would have a completely holistic view on Biology. Science is run on mostly reductionist thinking. If you want to understand how something works, you start with the parts and then work your way up. Still, no respectable scientist would argue that taking a part away from this system wouldn’t have a detrimental affect to it’s overall function. Reductionism is why we have gotten so far with science, otherwise we would have been in stagnation like China.
So my point still stands: Not all of these parts have the same level of plasticity to it’s environment.
Sorry only the word “completely” is supposed to be bolded.
Also, I forgot to add:
“Looks like just another ‘SES’ indicator to me and thusly is not ‘social class’. Social class is literally more than occupation/SES.”
What the fuck are you talking about? Aren’t we discussing RT?
“hypocritical as usual”
Genes made me do it.
“I don’t handwave culture, I just don’t downplay or elevate it’s importance relative to genetics, like you.”
I do no such thing. The argument is sound, especially the part about how social/genetic stratification cause genetic differences between classes that are irrelevant to cognitive ability and educational attainment which would then explain why social class correlates with IQ. That’s why GWAS finds such small correlations, it’s finding ‘social class’ differences, not ‘genetic IQ/educational attainment’ differences.
“Since you agree with this, it’s concerning that you don’t get that this means the systems themselves are just as responsible as the cultural devices used regarding individual differences in intelligence.”
Right. And since 1) IQ tests are made by people from a narrow social class and 2) IQ tests test learned knowledge more prevalent in certain classes compared to others, therefore 3) people who have more access to the cultural and psychological tools used for these tests would end up scoring higher.
“Dennis noble didn’t call genes “slaves” because they are actually slaves, that’s impossible, a gene is a gene and does what a gene does, no more, no less, and it’s plasticity is not evidence of sentience.”
He called genes ‘slaves’ because they’re ‘used’ by the physiological system. Slaves are used. Genes are used. Therefore the analogy is apt. Genes do nothing on their own. The Modern Synthesis has got causation wrong. By the way, Dawkins ‘doubts’ that any experiment exists to prove his claim.
‘I doubt that there is any experiment that could prove my claim [that genes are ‘seflish’]’ (Dawkins, 1982, p. 1).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3060581/
“He called them that because he wanted to downplay their importance, which is counter intuitive to a holistic view of evolution.”
Please provide a quotation to back this claim.
The whole point of the arguments against reductionism is against the MS and the view of gene-centered evolution because, and I will reiterate, the MS has causation wrong.
Noble isn’t even an antireductionist (I’m still undecided) but he says you need to look at the integration of the system.
He also says:
One of my problems with the reductionists is not so much that their method has not been extremely powerful. It is the hubris and certainty that that’s all there is.
Either way, all of the evidence is here either for an extension or replacement of the MS. It is time, enough evidence has piled up.
“you have an ideology to “prove” too.”
Please tell me what my ‘ideology’ is.
“You’d quickly realize you and I agree on quite a bit.”
Probably but it’s not fun when everyone agrees.
“Still, no respectable scientist would argue that taking a part away from this system wouldn’t have a detrimental affect to it’s overall function.”
If you take away gene ABC and it causes, say, loss of memory, can you logically say that gene ABC is/was responsible for memory? Or is it that the system was disrupted and since all of the ‘parts’ are no longer present then you see the deleterious behavior.
“So my point still stands: Not all of these parts have the same level of plasticity to it’s environment.”
The genome is not changed. What is inherited is the phenotype, the phenotype in F2 would be different but would have the same genotype as F1 and P.
“What the fuck are you talking about? Aren’t we discussing RT?”
What the fuck are you talking about? Reread my first comment in this thread.
I’d also like to point you to this too:
Such contextual dependence renders untenable the simplistic belief that there are coherent, long-lived entities called “genes” that dictate instructions to cellular machinery that merely constructs the body accordingly. The common belief that genes contain context-independent “information”—and so are analogous to “blueprints” or “recipes”—is simply false. (p. 81)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2223161/
And don’t get your panties in a bunch. I’m just integrating my responses to you into my Master Article on ‘g’. Have some patience (isn’t that correlated with IQ?).
gamma wave coherence and the upper levels 80hz and 120hz control perception. The higher the frequency the faster you perceive. The faster you see and hear and the faster the mind works as one complete entity (super chronological parallelism).
I have had nervous breakdowns where my body was shaking and my insides were shaking as if I had saver neurological damage. I still function low because the right side of my brain feels stuck, like a cramped muscle. Psychological damage that stops functioning. But I can still utilize other faculties very fast. I just cannot get all neurological parts to work together as one thing. On top of that, I have impaired dexterity. When running a marathon my brain calf is disadvantaged/cramped. The coordination is simply messed up. I feel terrible because I just stop and. I try to keep busy because I ignore feeling that part of me that is stuck. Doing nothing is not a good feeling.
I am sure that if I did not have this neurological trauma from periods of insurmountable stress, I would be faster and more intelligent because my brain would function as one unit and not a damaged network. I score 116 on pumpkin test from 2-3 years ago. But I was still disadvantaged. I brain that has all its parts working together will be exceptionally gifted.
Pumpkin one more of these child prodigies which is article worthy, Jacob barnett.
He supposedly has autism and an IQ of 189, if that score is accurate he could possibly one of America’s smartest men?
“She explained to us
that Jake had likely been diagnosed with Asperger’s (a mild form of
autism characterized by relatively high functioning) instead of full-
blown autism because his IQ was so high—a shocking, off-the-charts
189 on the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children.”
Imagine a future in which genetic engineering makes it possible for every child to have cognitive abilities of such aptitude, the world would be a different place.
Hi pumpkin, question related to an older post of yours. I read your blogpost on Oprahs head circumference, so I decided to measure my own head. I knew I always had a big head, but I measured and if the charts I can find online on my phone are correct it’s pretty freaking huge. 62.5cm circumference at the widest point around. I am a 6ft 1″ male. I tried the only online calculator I could find and it put me at around 5 standard deviations above the norm! Can you tell me what i might be able to interpret from this result? I am well above average intelligence I am sure, but I don’t know if the correlation between head size and iq is very strong. Thanks.
I checked an army study you mention elsewhere and it put me at 99.78 percentile…
Read this study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4530288/
“Head circumference is an indicator of brain volume, so a greater increase in head circumference in a new born baby suggests more rapid brain growth” (Smithers, 2013).
“Those which experienced the biggest growth in head circumference also had the highest IQs by the age of six” (Smithers, 2013).
Ultimately these are the results.
Mean NWG was 26% (SD 10%) of birth weight. In fully adjusted models, infants in the highest versus lowest quartile of NWG had 1.5-point (95% confidence interval [CI] 0.8 to 2.2) higher IQ scores (n = 13 840). A weak negative (protective) association between NWG and SDQ total difficulties scores was observed for the teacher-reported (β = −0.39, 95% CI −0.71 to −0.08, n = 12 016), but not the parent-reported (β = −0.12, 95% CI −0.39 to 0.15, n = 13 815), SDQ. Similar associations were observed with HCG and IQ and behavior.
Height is also strongly correlated with IQ in adults. This study tries to find out why.
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003451
Head size does indeed have a large impact on the IQ of an individual but the correlation of height is far stronger.
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure/image?size=large&id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003451.t001
Here is the results table.
In 1995, 5012 active duty males in the U.S. army had their head circumference measured. The mean was 568.2 mm with a standard deviation of 15.8 mm. Assuming these stats still hold today (non-immigrants were getting bigger) your HC is +3.59 SD. However brain size is only moderated correlated with IQ and HC is a crude measure of brain size so the within sex correlation between HC and IQ might be 0.3 at the most, so the average IQ of non-pathological U.S. men with your HC is (0.3)(3.59 SD) = 1.08 SD or IQ 116 (U.S. norms) with 95% having IQs from 88 to 144.
I came across one of the most ridiculous papers I think I’ll read all year and we’re only one month into the new year.
Intelligence and heartbeat counting: the contribution of prior knowledge
>Evidence suggests that intelligence is positively associated with performance on the heartbeat counting task (HCT). The HCT is often employed as measure of interoception – the ability to perceive the internal state of one’s body – however it’s use remains controversial as performance on the HCT is strongly influenced by knowledge of resting heart rate. This raises the possibility that heart rate knowledge may mediate the previously-observed association between intelligence and HCT performance. Study One demonstrates an association between intelligence and HCT performance (N=94), and Study Two demonstrates that this relationship is mediated by knowledge of the average resting heart rate (N=134). These data underscore the need to account for the influence of prior knowledge and beliefs when examining individual differences in cardiac interoceptive accuracy using the HCT.
“knowledge of the average resting heart rate” “intelligence is positively associated with performance on the heartbeat counting task” hmm I wonder what mediates this relationship. ‘heart rate knowledge may mediate the previously-observed association between intelligence and HCT performance.” ……….
I’ll be writing an article on this and will send it to you by Friday PP. Full disclaimer: I do this for a living so it’ll be extremely easy to pick apart. I wasn’t even searching for ‘intelligence’ papers, just searching for new heart rate papers to read and came across this. Incredible leaps of logic if I don’t say so myself.
Are you saying the paper is bad hecause the authors are black?
You’ll see why I think the paper is bad tomorrow.
How are the authors black???
Spoiler alert, the main crux of his “criticism” will be some variation of him kicking and screaming “muh culture” at everyone.
I like your prediction. Do you know anything about blood pressure and how it’s measured?
Heartbeat count * (sorry,just checked someone’s BP an hour ago). The two variables are strongly related, of course.
“I like your prediction. Do you know anything about blood pressure and how it’s measured?”
No, it doesn’t really matter though, I don’t necessarily share the opinion of the article. I just wanted to point out how predictable you are.
But go ahead give me a taste on why this article is wrong.
The quest is going from an ordinal scale, to an interval one, and one day a ratio one, where you would have IQ measured like height or weigh.
“where you would have IQ measured like height or weigh.”
Good luck with that… IQ isn’t a quantitative trait.
I went to tge psychiatrist today and had a long debate about whether racism was rational. She is indian so she kept alking about how its primitive and how she suffered racism blah blah blah. I said if you can accept some people have phobias with insects and find them more disgusting than others and that there is an evolutuonary reason for it….then maybe racism is a similar phenomenon.
I was going to say racism is only a problem if you wnt to live with whites. But that would have been too far. I could tell she despised me for my beliefs. She even said to be careful not to do anything racist in case i get arrested.
I am very open with these healthcare people that i am mentally very ill a d open to my beliefs being challeneged but she tried to suggest that if i had a profession and been educated i wouldnt have my beliefs. So then i said i ve been a banker and consultant and she stopped with that outlandish snobbery. I tried to insinuate that if one is truly capable of higher functioning reason you cab see ‘racism’ is brainwashing and conditioning and that tribalism is natural for masculine men. Many indian men are racist for example. But she was right about how caste thinking in idea is stupid….i dont think the caste system is a good corollary to western racial racism …
In india
To be fair at least she didnt say i was mentally ill because i was racist. That would have meant i threw the book at her. She said that bit is not paranoia but my actual personality. I would be racist even if i didnt have a personality disorder it seems.
interesting how light skinned hakuho is and how the mongolians conquered china but are now poor in comparison to the chinese. and how genghis khan was way more evil than hitler. way. HBDers are marked by their ignorance of history. so much so that some “nordicists” claim that the germans were the equals of the greeks and romans even in ancient times or that the ancient greeks and romans were actually germans and have since been mixed with untermenschen. nordicism is pathetic. the english have their version of nordicism in the song Jerusalem with lyrics by william blake.
ulaanbaatar is the coldest capital in the world but it’s latitude is the same as zurich’s. not that high. why isn’t helsinki or rejkjavik colder? they were much colder during the pleistocene but now they are surrounded by liquid water.
why did the china people never develop blue eyes or light hair? why are even mongols smaller than icelanders?
answer: the environment in which they developed was not as far north or as harsh as the one europeans developed in.
this is obvious to chris langan but peepee can’t handle the truth.
aesthetics don’t lie.
“Beauty is truth, truth beauty,”–that is all Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.
Speaking of historical knowledge, most of the ancestors of whites didn’t even live in Europe during the ice age, so it doesn’t matter if you think it was colder than Northeast Asia
are you a nordicist too?
no.
you’re just making shit up again.
Just as Cro-Magnons almost completely replaced the Neanderthals during ice age Europe, farmers from the Middle East largely replaced the Cro-Magnons during the Holocene.
Light skin in Europeans stems from ONE 10,000-year-old ancestor who lived between India and the Middle East, claims study
Agriculture was sweeping in from the Near East, bringing early farmers into contact with hunter-gatherers who had already been living in Europe for tens of thousands of years.Genetic and archaeological research in the last 10 years has revealed that almost all present-day Europeans descend from the mixing of these two ancient populations. But it turns out that’s not the full story.Researchers at Harvard Medical School and the University of Tübingen in Germany have now documented a genetic contribution from a third ancestor: Ancient North Eurasians. This group appears to have contributed DNA to present-day Europeans as well as to the people who travelled across the Bering Strait into the Americas more than 15,000 years ago.
Of course the author of the second study is Jewish so Philosopher will think it’s propaganda to justify more migrations from the Middle East into Europe.
But I was pleased to learn that Native Americans have incipient Caucasoid genes. This may help explain why they don’t score as high as other Mongoloids.
does joseph p. kennedy iii have a higher IQ than lee sedol?
his non-verbal IQ is probably a lot lower.
yet it’s clear that he is a higher form of life.
aesthetics don’t lie.
mongoloid females know this.
every single one of them prefers white men.
interesting anecdote about nordicism…and the power of propaganda in the US…
who is the tallest player in the nfl?
hint: he has an hispanic name and he was born in mississippi to parents who weren’t americans.
answer: it was a trick question. both his parents were spaniards from spain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alejandro_Villanueva_(American_football)
skin color, eye color, and hair color are not controlled by the same genes.
that is, there may be some overlap but a truly black skinned person can have blue eyes and blond hair. amazing but true.
so skin color has a convincing explanation, latitude, sun exposure.
but eye color seems to be like the peacock’s tail.
supposedly blue eyes originated near the danube delta and spread from there.
an example of a face which looks simian and ugly sans eyes, but which is a sex symbol because of the eyes.
here’s another map which shows again how pleistocene europe was more brutal than pleistocene manchuria, synecdochally speaking.
the mongolian beats the georgian.
the mongolian beats the georgian.
progressive evolution (supposing there is such thing) is quite CRUEL.
That meme doesn’t make sense PP. You can not believe in progressive evolution but still believe that ‘mother nature made us different’. (Nature vs nurture is irrelevant and a false dichotomy. Developmental, dynamical systems etc etc.)
Theres an article on Unz which claims the romans were germanic. I’m not sold. I think the people Mel Gibson used to play the romans in his movie is accurate (Mel is a stickler for historic detail). I.e. people that looked like Machievelli but not sicilian or berber looking.
Original Romans (Italics) were from North of the Alps and Indo-European, thus they were similar to Celts and Germanics (those didn’t really exist yet). The Romans associated themselves with those groups, not the other people around the Mediterraneans (they called Northern Europe “vagina gentium”). That’s also why Tacitus had this obsession with “pure-blooded Germanics”, he was a Nordicist but also the Greek mythology has Nordicist elements, hence there obsession with blond heroes and gods. As centuries went on they became more and more mixed. And when the Romans beat the Etruscians they absorbed more native Mediterranean (and also Anatolian/Near Eastern/Balkan blood).
Dorian Greeks may come from the so-called “Atlanteans”. You are right, Atlantis was Doggerland in the North Sea, was destroyed by a meteor and this launched the Bronze Age collapse by the “Sea People” (Atlantean refugees forming tribes: proto-Spartans ravaging the Greek peninsular, Philistines the Hebrews and other groups the Egyptians, there they lost, though) overrunning the Mediterranean world, Plato got his story from the Egyptian archives. Spartans were blond and came from this Atlantis.
Most probable scenario, albeit people don’t like it. There was an advanced civilization in North-Western Europe (also one in the Danube Balkan area), on the same level as the Egyptians and Mycenaean Greeks.
Look at the Battle of Tollense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tollense
[i]”Chemical tracers in the body remains indicate most of the Tollense warriors were from hundreds of kilometers away and ate millet, not grown in that part of the country at the time. Based on the difficulties of fighting in armor for novices, the warriors are inferred to have been professional fighters.”[/i]
[i]”The battle indicates there were organized battles occurring in Bronze Age northern Europe with trained warriors and workers providing food to the warriors, which allowed the warriors to train full-time.”[/i]
Mainstream historians will not acknowledge that, though. They like to spread the myth that before the Renaissance Northern Europeans were filthy savages.
“Original Romans (Italics) were from North of the Alps and Indo-European, thus they were similar to Celts and Germanics (those didn’t really exist yet). The Romans associated themselves with those groups, not the other people around the Mediterraneans (they called Northern Europe “vagina gentium”). That’s also why Tacitus had this obsession with “pure-blooded Germanics”, he was a Nordicist but also the Greek mythology has Nordicist elements, hence there obsession with blond heroes and gods. As centuries went on they became more and more mixed. And when the Romans beat the Etruscians they absorbed more native Mediterranean (and also Anatolian/Near Eastern/Balkan blood).”
See here.
http://www.geocities.ws/racial_reality/romans.html
http://www.geocities.ws/racial_reality/refuting_rm.html
file:///home/chronos/u-83c1088193dd6a3fcda0105f53ec0287735d7f23/Downloads/RACIAL_TYPEOFTHE_ANCIENT_HELLENES.pdf
“Dorian Greeks may come from the so-called “Atlanteans”. You are right, Atlantis was Doggerland in the North Sea, was destroyed by a meteor and this launched the Bronze Age collapse by the “Sea People” (Atlantean refugees forming tribes: proto-Spartans ravaging the Greek peninsular, Philistines the Hebrews and other groups the Egyptians, there they lost, though) overrunning the Mediterranean world, Plato got his story from the Egyptian archives. Spartans were blond and came from this Atlantis.
Most probable scenario, albeit people don’t like it. There was an advanced civilization in North-Western Europe (also one in the Danube Balkan area), on the same level as the Egyptians and Mycenaean Greeks.
Look at the Battle of Tollense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tollense
[i]”Chemical tracers in the body remains indicate most of the Tollense warriors were from hundreds of kilometers away and ate millet, not grown in that part of the country at the time. Based on the difficulties of fighting in armor for novices, the warriors are inferred to have been professional fighters.”[/i]
[i]”The battle indicates there were organized battles occurring in Bronze Age northern Europe with trained warriors and workers providing food to the warriors, which allowed the warriors to train full-time.”[/i]
Mainstream historians will not acknowledge that, though. They like to spread the myth that before the Renaissance Northern Europeans were filthy savages.”
1. I agree that calling ancient Northern Europeans savages without culture is ignorant, but at the same time the anthropological evidence you use (such as blondism) falls short of proving anything.
2. I’m fairly sure most modern historians don’t label them as such, but you are likely referring to Actually Roman and Greek literature of them, which you need to consider was propaganda to begin with.
Hilarious how phil78 is probably the youngest person here yet the most mature. Just sticks to the science & avoids all the nonsense.
“Hilarious how phil78 is probably the youngest person here yet the most mature. Just sticks to the science & avoids all the nonsense.”
Thanks, I appreciate that.
As to the OP’s comment, I would like to add that the Romans and Germans do share the same source for their languages, but the racial types associated with them are not the same.
For Instance, they probably came along with the Corded Ware for Germans, which would be associated with long headed Germans, however southern Germany ran by Bell Beaker types were more mixed with Dinaric Elements from Further South.
Then Alpines occupy the Southern Alps, which explains why early romans weren’t really tall.
Thus the Language spread process was probably very similar to the Watered down Steppe ancestry found in Indo European Greeks.
http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2017/08/genetic-continuity-in-greece.html
Are they any genetic/scientific basis for the division of Europeans into subraces (alpine, dinaric, etc) ?
Yeah thats good stuff phil. One way you can think of it is how the greeks achieved quite a lot and nobody claims they are nordics. It isnt a atretch to see how greek innovations later spread to the italian peninsula.
Another way is to observe how the renaissance happened in italy. From paintings we have from that period its obvious the italians who were involved in that were not nordics either.
I think the bias to explain all or most human achievement in terms of blondeness is taken much too far.
You can trace a eu civilisational streak from anceitn eygpt to greece and rome without having to come up with a racial reason why civilisation prospered along the med basin.
Afaik tge pheonecians were pretty advanced as well.
The idea europe was a backwater im not an expert in.
My theory is that china was more advanced than europe for a good few centuries before it became over regulated and domesticated. I think one can prove that by the much larger population sizes china could support showing its agriculture and therefore associated law, engineering, government must have been more complex.
When rushton says the east asians are the most advanced that is a literal thing to say. It would make more intuitive sense to say ‘much more along the civilised path of development’ than ‘advanced’ per se.
One of the main reasons europe evolved quicker was infighting among its component kingdoms. The main threat china faced was external from the mongols and it couldnt deal with it. The mongols subjugated the ‘more advanced’ chinese.
Google antonio conte. Chelsea manager. He looks like the type your article suggests romans looked like.
To Lyrion,
Somewhat.
To break it down, her are some correlation.
1. The long headed tall Nordic type is associated with Aryan Ancestry, which is a gradient from North to South.
2. The can be said of the East Baltic and Lagodan type that represents the Eastern european HG ancestry, being found highest in Slavs and Russians with the latter being highest in the Finnish who have the overall highest level of Nomad ancestry.
3. Neolithic ancestry is pretty solidly tied with the Med phenotype. Even in NW Europe, the Irish had types that reflected this such as the typically mixed type between Nordic and Med called “Keltic Nordic” and the Black Irish who are likely remants of the Neolithic invasions of NW Europe and both is area and the Welsh seem toi have the highest influence.
4. Alpine, Brunn, Faelid, Borreby, etc. that are broadfaced and roundheaded type are associated with West HG DNA, which is highest in North europe and spain as far as I can tell. (Though I’ve read that France was more obviously Alpine than Iberians).
This seems to add up as aside from Alpine, which is mostly central european, the other type are closley associated with Northern Europe.
Northern Italy seems to be slightly closer to Central Europeans, though overall closest to Iberians specifically Western ones, which correlated to both Mesolithic haplogroups in them (and likely autosomal) which maybe associated with their Alpine types as well as their Atlanto Med types also seen in Iberians.
Southern Italy, by comparison, is somewhat closer to Greek Islanders like Cretans. central Italy is somewhere in between.
Sardinians (and France) both have a type called “berid” which is a very broad faced type (though different from Alpine types in Southern Italy associated with Indo european lanuages from the Alps). the best examples in Italy in Sardinia may be explained by this.
https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/5/1290/3738990
Another distinguishing trait, Alpines have rounder faces than Berids and also lihter, more brownish, hair.
Think of Telegucci from Carlitos Way or Ralph from Sopranos.
Northern European “prosperity” seems to be assoicated with the absence of feudal, collectivist infrastructure and more emphasis on the “Republican” individualism seen in Northern Italy but undermined in the South due to rule by Northern European Monarchy.
To Philosopher,
https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/5178890961.jpg?w=748&h=530&crop=1
Hmmm…Grey eyes, broad face and prominent cheekbones, brown hair, short forehead.
He’s Southern Italian interestingly enough, but even then his pigmentation is hardly unsual and his Grey Eyes and Brown hair would be expected to be associated with such broad alpine like features, though his nose and chistled ness seem to indicate his type is along the lines of dinaricazation, becoming the local Armenoid subtype due to Alpines and Med types mixing in the region.
So yeah, a fairly close perception of Early Romans of Alpine type. Though despite my use of Caesar, Caesar eyes were recorded as being Dark.
“The Romans associated themselves with those groups, not the other people around the Mediterraneans (they called Northern Europe “vagina gentium”). That’s also why Tacitus had this obsession with “pure-blooded Germanics”, he was a Nordicist but also the Greek mythology has Nordicist elements, hence there obsession with blond heroes and gods.”
Well one “Vagina gentium” was describing the Ancient Scythian Territory, not “Northern Europe” (what was “North” to them is probably closer to central Europe anyhow even if you did consider the allusions they made with both celts and Scythians).
And with that said, it applied particularly to Celts and Germans as they though they were related to them.
https://books.google.com/books?id=QaY6AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=vagina+gentium+romans&source=bl&ots=LvsSvIKV9R&sig=s9aYBUkczA5jnajhuuBr78vWyDA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwignp2ShIjZAhWkwFkKHddJAw8Q6AEINzAE#v=onepage&q=vagina%20gentium%20romans&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=7fQRAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA297&lpg=RA1-PA297&dq=Romans+Vagina+Gentium+scythia&source=bl&ots=KXUl6E-D0-&sig=1qojbo6J-S1JDMsRUU-zGgQO0Pg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTq4nmhYjZAhWkp1kKHbSSDdMQ6AEIPTAI#v=onepage&q=Romans%20Vagina%20Gentium%20scythia&f=false
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythia
Second, Scythians were assoicated with Red Hair, not Blonde.
Third, the words they used to describe hair colors were different from ethnicity, that is Celtic Blonde was expressed as “white hair” in Greek and/or Latin, the term for “light hair” probably meant light brown or Sandy blonde found in Macedonia.
Fourth, as for associateing themselves away from Meditterranean groups….that’s kind of a laugh seeing how they adopted Estruscan culture, Local customs of the Pennisula like from the Sabines, Greek culture to the extant where Saturn “Cronos” taught Romans farming, Romulus and Remus were Born demigod sons of Ares, and even Anatolian influences by having Aeneas being the ancestor of Romulus and Remus as well.
Then you would also have to consider how during the Punic Wars Rome and other of the Italian Pennisula united against the Carthagians.
It wasn;t until the Middle ages that Allusions were made with Romulus and Remus with Frankish folklore.
Interestingly, Berbers share half their pagan gods with Greece. Some, like Anteus and Poseidon are literally Berber. Lesser known gods are Anzar, god of rain and Ammon (Amun) the god of life. Atlas is also a Berber god. The goddess Libya had three sons with Poseidon and there’s a whole lot more. I didn’t often think about it, but I’ve noticed it’s not very well known in the western world.
Here’s a statue of Neith (Athena) in Libya today. We can barely be called Muslims (we drink, don’t practice, etc) but it’s sad that Arabism erased much of the ancient culture. Berbers are still very much a Mediterranean people as opposed to a Semitic one, but Islam is like poison of the mind.
To Fenoopy,
Very true, influence certainly spread throughout the the Med world and doesn’t surprises me in the slightest.
Its kind of funny that the nations most accused of being racist and white tribal – russia and the usa have had minority rule by jews for significant periods in their history. Some would say the claim they are racist is related to this.
“25th June 1920
Dearest O
I have got thus far on my return, but boats are very full and it may be a week before I reach England. I left Allen in a nursing home in Reval, no longer in danger, tho’ twice he had been given up by the Doctors. Partly owing to his illness, but more because I loathed the Bolsheviks, the time in Russia was infinitely painful to me, in spite of being one of the most interesting things I have ever done. Bolshevism is a close tyrannical bureaucracy, with a spy system more elaborate and terrible than the Tsar’s, and an aristocracy as insolent and unfeeling, composed of Americanised Jews. No vestige of liberty remains, in thought or speech or action. I was stifled and oppressed by the weight of the machine as by a cope of lead. Yet I think it is the right government for Russia at this moment. If you ask yourself how Dostoevsky’s characters should be governed, you will understand. Yet it is terrible. They are a nation of artists, down to the simplest peasant; the aim of
{p. 355} the Bolsheviks is to make them industrial and as Yankee as possible. Imagine yourself governed in every detail by a mixture of Sidney Webb and Rufus Isaacs, and you will have a picture of modern Russia. I went hoping to find the promised land.”
Bertrand Russell can see that Bolshevism is basically jewish rule in Russia and he was a massive liberal for his time.
Those early resident evil games are classics. You play the games and finish them and think – perfectly measured challenge.
I finished zero was just 1 shotgun bullet left.
I’ve never played a game with so little latitude to waste resources.
I think about 10 people ever played Code Veronica or Resident Evil Zero and by god did they get a good experience.
always.
Give consideration to that fact that “They” know more than you think. They being the ones who are Artists. Understand the myths and technologies. See into the future. Animation computer technologies all created by them.(artists)
Men In Black cartoon intro
The real adventures of Jonny Quest.
The remastered Tomb Raider Anniversary is very good as well. The story is drop dead stupid and makes no sense but the gameplay and puzzles are fantastic.
I found the more recent GTA games to be dross though. GTA IV is a piece of shit in particular.
You have to hand it to the japs. They make good fuckin games. I genuinely think some games are like art. I challenge anyone to play Shadow of Colossus or Okami and not say – ‘boy, that was special’.
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.technobuffalo.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2FResident-Evil-Zero-Review-7-1280×720.jpg&f=1
Fantastic.
The should remaster the entire original trilogy too. I find the new action shooter games in the series to be rubbish compared to the ‘survival horror’ of the original games.
More evidences Jimmy and Fenoopy are one person.
Fenoopy said :
i’m berber not arab, so i don’t know much about them. i’m not particularly fond of arabs, but neither am i particularly fond of french people.
french people killed 10% of the population of my tribe in the independence war, so i can’t say i’m particularly fond of you french, either. i can travel to my village in kabylia and see the graves of the people you killed all with my family name written there on the stones.
from my perspective it’s the french who’re callous and without empathy. i only have to look at that psychopath banker macron.
Jimmy said :
If you watch documentaries about French colonialism you’ll see pictures of French soldiers beheading algerians and sticking their heads on spikes and placing them at the gates of cities.
i am not saying that the french are tough people . They are certainly not. All i’m saying is that the french can be extremely vicious killers when their victim is weak.
The french showed their true colors during the colonial days when they had defenseless africans who couldn’t fight back.
By global standards the french are cowards but they are not feminine like Afro.
oh and how does it feel to be an african who calls himself french while knowing about all of the atrocities committed by France in Africa?
Jimmy also said something that tells a lot about who he really is :
It all kicked off after the english hooligans saw some berbers and shouted ” Where is ISIS”
The english hooligans thought that the berbers would run away but instead they went up to them and things got very messy.
It was hilarious to see the police having to protect the english.
It’s good to be suspicious of Jews, doesn’t mean you have to trust MENA people simply because they don’t like Jews, it would be a very naive reasoning. Actually the reason MENA see through the game of Jews it’s because they are similar to them in a lot of ways.
I swear to god I’m not Jimmy, it’s absurd that he’s made the same posts but this is just one of those coincidences in life, I’m honestly just as surprised as you are. I’m not a sock puppet user.
I wouldn’t be so stupid as to deny it given this evidence if it were true, but honestly, it’s just an absurd coincidence.
Perhaps he is also a Kabyle? I don’t know, honestly. If there was a way for me to prove that I’m not him, I’d prove it.
Jimmy is just well travelled. He has posted at length about india and china as well. His brain is like a sponge and would soak up all the local stories. Its pretty obvious to me Jimmy is californian because there is a lot of things he said that to be honest only a westerner would have known about growing up.
I think Jimmy’s very last attempted comment (at least as Jimmy) was about Jonathan Franzen. He felt Franzen had a 140+ IQ because Jimmy knew what college he attended and said back in the day he was told you needed a 1400+ SAT or something to get into that college.
When there are so many coincidences it’s not anymore a coincidence. Fenoopy also grew up in the West so there is no inconsistency here.
Both Jimmy and Fenoopy were talking to two different French people so part of the coincidence is that we have more than one person posting from France (including Bruno & Afro)so it’s not that odd that French ethnic conflict would repeatedly come up on an HBD blog with several French commenters talking about race
I would add both Fenoopy and Jimmy have claimed to be software engineers. Another “coincidence”.
What about the coincidence of several people commenting from France on an English North American blog?
Not seeing the link at this level of evidences is downright autism.
There’s definitely a large similarity, but I assure you it’s coincidental. France often comes up and Algeria is over a century of it’s history. That and the reputation North Africans have is primarily from France and Holland where the economic immigrants are, people outside these countries aren’t subjected to tcharmil so usually have a favorable or neutral opinion.
There are indeed so many coincidences it’s no longer a coincidence, but what can I say, I’m at a loss. I’m not playing a joke on you or trying to see how far this can go, genuinely, I am not Jimmy.
Also, I’m probably the youngest here. Jimmy seems a lot older.
“Both Jimmy and Fenoopy were talking to two different French people so part of the coincidence is that we have more than one person posting from France (including Bruno & Afro)so it’s not that odd that French ethnic conflict would repeatedly come up on an HBD blog with several French commenters talking about race”
It’s only one weird coincidence among others. Taken individually these evidences I provided tells nothing, it’s only when you put them all together that you finally get the big picture.
Fair enough, but watch out for the confirmation bias where people look for evidence that confirms their theory & rationalize away the exceptions.
Another coincidence that proved little by itself was bragging about height and head size since those are common topics here and Mug of Pee & Afro have bragged about both too
Philosopher, if you are sad that Jimmy definitely leaved the blog and you have questions to ask him you can directly ask Fenoopy.
Every single coincidence proves little by itself. I have provided tens of blatant similarities, it’s not like 4 or 5 coincidences. It’s crazy we are still arguing on this. You are free to do as if Jimmy and Fenoopy are 2 different persons but it would be complete denial.
Hahahaha. Lyrion, hes not jimmy. I don’t know why you see a couple of shared opinions and think they are the same person when they have completely different writing styles and backgrounds. Jimmy is a trader by the way, not a software engineer.
Jimmy thought some of the comments claiming to be white or Arab were controlled by a Jewish puppet master, so I understand why someone might suspect Jimmy himself was playing similar games since he suspected it in others, but if Jimmy’s using a sock puppet, he’s really really good at it. Most sock puppets are totally obvious.
Jimmy/Fenoopy are not the only ones. He also used “Jacob Goldstein” to buttress all his points about Jews, like when he was arguing with Afro if whether Israelis like Blacks or not. I should find that thread.
Jacob Goldstein was definitely a sock puppet designed to troll Afro, but he’s not Jimmy’s. It was totally obvious who he was and I found it funny how he even went to the trouble of getting an Israeli IP and asked me to check it to prove he was commenting from Israel.
“Jimmy thought some of the comments claiming to be white or Arab were controlled by a Jewish puppet master,”
Interesting, and this is precisely why I think Jews and Arabs hate each other so much beside the palestinian question, they are similar to each other and sociopathic. Predators understand other predators.
I have seen a lot of Jews and North Africans pretend to be white on the Internet to advance their agenda. Some Jews also pretend to be white in real life. Generally speaking Jews are much more subtle but I agree Jimmy/Fenoopy was pretty subtle, he is playing at a jew level.
Jimmy trolling jewish chick on dating sites is for me one more evidence he is not white and even less nordic.
No Jacob Goldstein was Jimmy, exact same writing style and other similarities.
Jimmy/Fenoopy is a software engineer so it’s not a big deal for him to change his IP.
Jimmy said he was a commodities trader with BP and Citadel. He seemed like he knew what he was talking about.
Ahhh…paranoia and way too much free time. What a wonderful combination!
When Jimmy leaved Fenoopy appeared. Jimmy’s last comment and Fenoopy first one are on the same article I think. People generally can’t handle using 2 sockpuppets at the same time.
Jimmy’s last comment and Fenoopy first one are on the same article I think
No I don’t think so. If you want to argue MENA people are bad then fine, but this Jimmy/Fenoopy theory is a waste of your time and energy, especially since no one has posted as Jimmy in a long time. It just distracts from your larger point since most people don’t believe it or don’t care.
I don’t have that much freetime, I wish I do.
I sense some hostility and irritation in your comment PP, not sure why. Jimmy and Fenoopy are one person it’s pretty obvious may be I should have put all my findings in one comment so it would have helped people connecting the dots and seeing the big picture.
You are caricaturing my point, again don’t know why. I just observed that some jew-wise people tend to think about MENA as allies or brothers simply because of their antisemitism. I’m saying this would be a very simplistic reasoning.
I sense some hostility and irritation in your comment PP, not sure why.
Because I want all my commenters to get along, including you and Fenoopy. This blog is supposed to be a positive experience for everyone, despite the fact that we discuss some very taboo topics.
I just observed that some jew-wise people tend to think about MENA as allies or brothers simply because of their antisemitism. I’m saying this would be a very simplistic reasoning
I agree 100%. All I’m saying is you don’t have to pick fights with other commenters to make that point. You can use examples in the news of MENA behaving badly or you can cite crime statistics for MENA refugees etc.
If I were so smart as to switch up my entire personality and sock puppet, I’d be smart enough not to make the exact same posts, which I am. You’re contradicting yourself. It isn’t rocket science.
You are socially clever but not enough since you haven’t be able to fool me.
You and Fenoopy can continue this discussion on RR’s blog with jimmy. Not posting any further comments implying fenoopy’s a sock puppet
Or any further comments defending Fenoopy from this accusation. The entire debate should take place on RR’s blog so jimmy can respond too
No problemo. Go discuss there.
Trumpys SOTU was fairly bland but it seems like hes pushed through the worst of the colour revolution/Russia crap and the conservative establishment is falling behind him (thanks to his support of tax cuts and for Israels jerusalem captial).
In the Wolf book, Bannon makes some very good points about the alt right being larger than Trump per se. I think the alt right will continue to grow even if Trump is forced to condemn it or if he was impeached. For example, Bannon is right that Roy Moore can types will win primaries from now on, even if Trump endorses the Zionist candidate.
Wolffs book is very good in that it confirms some of my suspicions. I have to admit Jimmy was right about Murdoch being a globalist. But it was nice to see Roger Ailes was not and Sheldon Adelson is willing to back Bannon if it meant being strong for Israel. The book makes jared and ivanka seem like low IQ liberal idiots. The conservative movement seems strong now with someone like Bannon around. As unlike the national review conservatives like George Will and the like, he is a legitimate conservative.
I would say these days I don’t mind being called a conservative as its dawned on me that if I tell people my real opinions on things, they will classify my as far right despite my views on everything else except immigration/race.
There is a new study out saying conservatives are better looking than liberals.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/10/conservatives-really-are-better-looking-research-says/?utm_term=.f3cbb52eff3e
This would seem to contradict pumpkins idiot statement that conservatives are stupider as there is a slight correlation between intelligence and looks.
I would be considered the best looking man in the entire building for a lot of women so its not surprise I am a national socialist. Hahahahahah.
Seriously though, especially before I lost my mind, I looked movie star handsome.
Pumpkin still wont take back his ‘finding’ that conservatives are stupider than liberals. I would put money on the average SJW being the lowest IQ of all major political ideological groups, including muslims.
In my opinion, and not just saying this because I sympathise with them, but the alt right blogs and level of intellectual fare is much better than what I read when I was a liberal or what I see libertarians, traditional conservatives or neocon/third way people write with the sole exception of marxists who are very smart but blind on the 1 topic of race.
This is bizarre to me as it is obvious Marx himself was racially aware:
http://www.wnd.com/2006/06/36692/
Marx believed in HBD. Why? Because someone with a verbal IQ that high would have to be demented or indeed, a conman not see what people with VIQs that high see.
One thing I give Marx more than any other philosopher is that he tackled the jewish question with 100% objectivity despite he himself being jewish. Most gentiles can’t even talk about it.
Most conservatives are stupid in that they believe in religious nonsense & get duped into supporting neocon wars and tax cuts for Wall street oligarchs. Only when it comes to race & immigration do they get the right answer, but largely because they’re lacking compassion which is another sign of brain damage
But i agree the altright is smarter than SJWs
“But i agree the altright is smarter than SJWS”
I’d put them on the same level, to be honest.
Chomsky is a weasel compared to marx. Whereas Chomsky might say Marx is his intellectual inspiration yadda yadda, Chomsky lies about his knowledge of how the world works.
Think about it.
Chomsky must have a top 0.01% VIQ. The idea he hasn’t realised ones race makes a massive difference to ones personality, intellectual abilities or hormonal levels is crazy to me. I know for a fact jewish literature talks about race quite a lot so I imagine Chomsky has at least been exposed to the consensus that jews are smarter than gentiles.
Chomsky is not a conman like Gould, but he certainly is intellectually disingenuous when he makes the claim that the US tells Israel what to do or doesn’t explain why blacks are poorer than asians and whites.
Such is the ‘intellectual’ fare we have under Zion. Even the most respected Marxist is a clown world version Marx.
I happen to think David Harvey writes much better material than Chomsky anyway in terms of modern marxist thought.
Philosopher: Chomsky must have a top 0.01% VIQ. The idea he hasn’t realised ones race makes a massive difference to ones personality, intellectual abilities or hormonal levels is crazy to me.
This kid is from Austrailia, is 23? and male.
(he seems to have the nicest personality ever)
He is into art which I am not. I can’t draw.
(Does Philosopher even draw? not drawing is autistic? right?)
Why I Hated Art Class [Story]
Chompsky being VIQ 156 because 100 – 99.99 = 0.01 (the chart says 99.99 is 156).
I once got 132 but that does not mean I am a creative writer (stupid other problems stop me) I am capable of being able to understand the specific concepts of what I read. Being on the internet 8 years I have practice with textual communication.
Michael Pierce made a video of how Chomsky is INFJ. His perception is contextual and his Judgement is universal.
Chipflake who made the video is very different in personality compared my sister’s friend who is all into fixing cars and machines and has weird conspiracies about technology Like I do.
Spirit Science (a new age YouTube channel) has art that is very good. Hard-assed atheist critic his new age believes a lot.
Those are two things I noticed about people in people. You are either hard or soft. You are inflexible or flexible. Overly unjustifiably certain or open to other possibilities.
There was a black girl who was teased for being to white and her parents sued the school. But what if it was true. What if she was different from the other black girls.
I live where 40 percent of the population is Hispanic. Half the people I know and interact with are Hispanic. I can tell that the differences in personality are not much different from each other. Because I am in America, not Mexico, that makes a difference. Also, I basically meet people in professional jobs so they would be different from people that work at the grocery store. White or Hispanic.
Obviously, you go to Africa the blacks will be different from the blacks in America. I look at people with gradients of reactiveness or the inability of me to get along with them. My instincts are not like the instincts of the Hard-ass. theirs is more primitive and what they look for is competency and hate pussy-footing around. I am careful in what I do so the Hard-ass calls me a pussy. My instincts tell me to avoid offending such people because they hate being contradicted because they are wrong. Overly unjustified certainty. Which is just stupid. Because my brother and I got into a fight over whether Britain and the US were enemies. He said yes I said no and we got into a fight. I am now very careful what I say around him. He thinks Obama used an executive order to pass Obama care. I told him laws can only be passed by Congress and the Senate and executive orders are only for the rules of the bureaucracy of the executive branch. He still believes you can write laws with executive orders. He does not understand what the legislative branch is. The legislators write legislation, the Executive branch leads the bureaucracy of the country. The Judiciary settles disputes according to the law. I kicked my brother’s ass because he hit first.
At some point, you head into sensitive areas. So the only thing to do is just stop because there will be no way to settle disagreements. A good sorting mechanism is to watch for reactive behavior when a topic is brought up. And whether or not the temperament is hard or soft. A soft person will eventually be able to understand the disagreement is not that important to the relationship. A deal breaker for a soft person is an act of cruelty that cannot be tolerated. Hard people when reative will be unbudged by any attempt to reconcile differences, this combines with their certainty that the world is the way it is when it is not.
They can fix a car and call me a pussy but they do not know the way the world really is. Their certainty is based on them being able to be productive and actually be able to achieve things but it is far from the full picture. So what if you know how to fix machines, you know little of science and executive orders cannot supersede the legislative branch’s power to make laws.
I use all this as a guide to map peoples personality.
He understands, but the Communist ideal is to eliminate race. Doing that requires that we deny race exists.
I don’t think you necessarily need VIQ to know how the world actually works. I think a lot of human beings can navigate the world using instinct alone and it gets you most of the way through pure inertia (with the exception of those on the autist spectrum who have no instincts). Most human emotions and psychological heuristics override human ‘reason’ for very good reasons. Not least because most human problems have been faced thousands of times by ancestors and so the ‘learned response’ is better than summing from first principles every single time. This is something a lot of ‘modern’ academics and intellectuals seem to hate admitting. That our wiring and ‘stereotypical pattern recognition’ is smarter than anything you would get in a textbook or watching BBC documentaries. If a man rapes your wife you feel rage. If someone touches a child you feel offence. Most morality in humans is not reasoned. Nor needs to be. In hindsight one can see why paedophilia is bad for humans in evolutionary terms or a violation of human liberty and such, but I would really worry whether paedophilia would be banned if you gave high VIQ groups that opportunity to argue for its merit, as say population replacement in the West or promiscuity have now been ‘reasoned’ to be moral.
Most human beings make decisions from the gut or from emotion in my experience. It is in fact when humans subscribe to abstract ideologies, cult sermonising or media brainwashing using ‘reason’ that things go awry.
This explains why jocks and schizos are more sexually attractive to other humans perhaps. The sense that Master cannot mould them to his will like the dutiful choir boy nor the naive college student SJW.
A thousand times throughout modern history has the solemn son asked why his cad schoolmate was cool and popular even though he ‘had nothing between his ears’. It never dawns on Mr Solemn that the freedom from programming is selection for fitness and ‘his’ own ideas are fantasy.
Oh my, you’re going to make me swoon.
The more I thought on the matter the more I’ve realized that intuitive rationalizations are a sign of autism. Intuition, Logic without empiricism, emotional thinking, all make brainwashing incredibly easy. Skepticism is a tenant of scientific thought and schizophrenia is not selected for,(besides racial correlations) neurotypical individuals are.
It truly isn’t as simple as Philo thinks.
Hence, why a lot of blacks are very religious, Schizophrenia makes you just as susceptible to brain washing techniques as Autism. If it were not for the scientific method, we would not have 75% of the inventions or level of technology we currently do. So in reality master doesn’t select for just Autists, he selects for psychos like Philo. who are easy to persuade with correlations, and appeals to emotion. Autists are brainwashed in the since that they are simply too oblivious to see the reality unless it was force fed, while Schizos are the opposite, it doesn’t take much to convince them of anything.
Did you know that in the uk we found out 60% of people cant read a bank statment in my old job? Youre confusing reason with the general idea that everyoen has ample ability in it.
In my opinion the vast majority of people not only cant do advanced math but cant use reason properly. So like a lecherous old man handing sweets to children in order to get them to sit on his lap, predatory people can use ‘reason’ to get people with weak reason to believe in anything.
If they had simply followed their instinct there would be less lredation. Conmen dont prey on barbarians.
Actually the most fascinating thought is of course that even i dont have ebough information or am not free of conditioned responses to make decisons for myself.
In my life i have tealised a lot of the things i oncr believed in are lies or frauds and i would consider myself well read and lucky to have internet access and a first rate education and so forth.
Its lossible that there are lrobably a very small minority of people that really know how and why everything works and ahould work and keep the knowledge to themselves for power reasons. Everyone else is listening to sermons or acting according to onstinct. I think the latter is more justifiable than the former.
I understand that no one can truly know if something is a fact, we can only be less wrong. But knowledge is relative, and I believe it’s worth being less wrong than someone else.
Also how are you defining Instinct? It my head, someone with weak reason is more likely to use instinct in the first place.
Intuitive people are incredibly difficult to brainwash. With reason, you can brainwash anyone.
Reason is used to guide the blind, when you must draw new conclusions.
Intuition is when you already know the path, from prior experience.
But i think you’re assuming everyone has an equal intuition to begin with. I mean what is an intuition? Is it really innate knowledge or is it learned just like everything else?
It’s literally just experience. You can make intuitive decisions almost instantly.
If it’s experience based, then it’s just as easy to brainwash, experiences are subjective.
1. china people eat dogs.
2. china is the world capital of executions. n korea is bad too.
conclusion: china people are genetically inferior to europeans.
this was evident more than 2,000 years ago. europeans had an alphabet and plumbing and their statues were much more realistic. there is no chinese plato or aristotle.
china has developed because western businesses have developed it. china people’s intelligence is just mimicking. they’re un-creative and obedient. this is why no one has ever met a smart chinaman. they don’t exist.
flynn found that chinese americans scored slightly lower on IQ tests than european americans but their academic success corresponded to that of high IQ whites. were there any chinese among the termites?
this is peculiar to the american education system. or maybe scandinavia’s is the same. but in other countries academic success means success on cumulative objective exams, aka IQ tests. people come to the US from germany, switzerland, japan, etc. precisely because they can’t pass the exams in their home countries.
flynn’s subjects were chinese in california in the 60s iirc. chinese descended from chinese who’d come to work on the railroad in the second half of the 19th c.
this is seen in hawaii too. the chinese and japanese of hawaii are not especially smart. i’ve met them. i know.
later immigration would have been selective for IQ. that is, the chinese who came to the US were from the smart fraction of china.
china has a higher murder rate than ghana.
of course canada is the single worst in this regard.
so far as status is mediated by educational attainment and the prestige of degree, the canadian elite are the world’s dumbest, much dumber than that of many 3d world countries.
actually the latest stats show only two black african countries lower than china. upper volta and madagascar. madagascar is part malaysian.
interesting that this sunday’s superbowl will be plaid by the two white-st teams in the nfl.
another example of how there is discrimination against whites in the nfl at certain positions.
plaid
(archaic) simple past tense and past participle of play
an example of hard core credentialism in the US.
it used to be that one could join the merchant marine and work his way up to officer.
this is no longer the case.
one must attend a merchant marine academy.
Are Jimmy and Feenopy – let’s say personae – French too ? Lyrion, you could probably have found your answer setting a trap, but now it’s too late. I don’t think they are the same person, but it’s only an « intuition », and I’m better at deduction and induction .
You should look at the list of common points I provided on the other article, it will help you deduct they are the same person if you have a logic mind.
I have a very logic mind Lyrion. Maybe too much sometimes 🙂
That’s why I said that. Hard facts will help you making your opinion more than intuition.
I think Lyrion is the only person that thinks jimmy is fenoopy. It says a lot more about his social intuition than ours.
He also thinks the inverse without being inconsistent for that 🙂
RR agree with me. You might say RR opinion doesn’t matter on that matter though.
Weren’t you the one thinking that “dealwithit” was PP btw?
Then I took it back.
I will not took back mine, when I accuse someone of something publicly it’s always with 100% certainty.
everyone of you is peepee.
i meant to say…
every_one of you is peepee.
Hahaha! Mug of Pee’s funniest all time comment was right after i honourably discharged jimmy he wrote:
peepee is afraid of one of her personalities: “jimmy”
Reminded me of a psychiatrist writing notes on a patient in a psych ward
Sometimes you just have to admit youre wrong. I was wrong about Deal.
I actually do take antipsychotics. But I am not one of pp alters. The only alter I have is autism. And yes my alter autism is very sad. Autism showed up about the time Philosopher did.
Hahahaha
I completely forgot oprah was in sp. What an episode that was. Sp makes a lot of fun out of mel gibson. Presumably because the co creator is jewish and didnt like mels attitude to jews. Sp guys say theyre libertarian. Funny show.
stone is parker’s excuse to make fun of jews.
parker is the genius behind sp.
stone is the commissar.
and stone is only half jew. his dad is a gentile.
I don’t think a paranoid schizo will necessarily be closer to the truth. He will surely be more wary of threats, but also assume bad intents where they aren’t any. Sociopaths are more paranoid as they project their own bad intents on others.
This remind me of a story which happened in the city where I grew up, involving North Africans. One guy decide to tells his best friend his wife his cheating on him. Then 2 days later the said friend catch the former guy little sister in the street and force her to wear hooker clothes, take a picture, send him to his friend and tells him :”if you say anything to anyone about my wife I’ll reveal this picture”. The guy was so vicious and wicked he never assumed his friend was just trying to help him, he rather saw this action as a threat and acted accordingly.
There are a lot of story like that with these people.
I remember this video posted on twitter of a Westerner living in Algeria who fell in love with the country. There was a lot of angry and insulting reaction because this guy, despite the enormous respect he gived to algerian culture and people, dared mentioning the huge waste disposal problem this country have.
There seems to be a lot of france based commenters on this site. Way more than youd imagine an english language alt right blog to have. From my experience of france id say they are the most suppressed of the european countries in terms of race awareness and hence the lamwntable immigration rates.
Lyrion is right that a lot of mena people project their intentions on others. Ita supposed to be the number one conspiracy theorist culture in the world.
In my opinio what happened in mena is what happened in italy. I.e. once a civilisation reaches a certain threshold of wealth its women will select for r selected and sociopathic people . This might explain why their womens desires are now so heavily regulated as it could be a backlash against their affinity for dar traid types.
Italians are also well known for being the dirtiest and most corrupt european western nation.
Pointing out things you don’t like is considered disrespectful to the host if you are a guest. It’s a culture thing. Do not tell the host ‘I liked it, but the couscous was bad’. It’s simply considered disrespectful and ungrateful.
Culture gap.
In response to philosopher, all Mediterraneans have the same temperament and for the most part, very similar genes. Italians, especially Sardinians, are the genetic brothers of Berbers.
There’s not really much of a difference between Greeks, Berbers, Italians, Spanish. The Levant area is Semitic however.
It’s the same as the rest of the Mediterranean really, it’s an honor culture. Respect and loyalty is of the utmost importance while the law has very little importance, whereas in Nordic countries respect and loyalty has very little importance and morals/law have very high importance. Honor is of the highest importance in the Med.
A Nordic will sell out his own mother if she breaks the law.
If your brother brings home a dead body, the Med asks where to bury it, the Nord calls the police. This is the basic difference in culture/temperament.
The difference between Morocco and Portugal is only 0.36
The difference between Denmark and Portugal is 2.02
Mediterraneans are like one big family so far as temperament goes and are a lot closer to Berbers than they are to Nords.
That is an in-group collectivism study, forgot to cite/title
Though it seems Asians are by far the most in-group focused, perhaps Turks, being mixed Mediterranean and Asian (to my knowledge) are a result of this, being the most in-group focused group on the list?
Interesting, what are these figures exactly ?
I still think there is a gap between Southern Euros and MENA though. There are a lot of north african behaviors that I don’t observe in Italians or Corsicans. Muslim turkish also act very differently than Berbers, same with Chechens.
I have observed no population harassing women in the streets at the same magnitude as Berbers. Arabs and people from the Horn of Africa might act very similarly but we don’t have these in France so I can’t judge.
Immigrant populations aren’t representative of the native population. I can’t respond to this anecdotal claim with statistics, besides of course making it apparent that Berber crime levels are typically below those in Europe. In France it appears to be another case entirely and I’d be happy to discuss the topic in detail, but for now the study populations are the natives of each country, not immigrants.
Berbers also act like this at home, it’s even way worst. The only difference is that the immigrant ones are spiteful and act even more aggressively toward the native white people. But purely talking about harassment and aggressive sexual behaviors it’s clearly worst in north african countries.
You’re retarded, Fenoopy. Berber people are the most psychopathic and evil people on the planet. Their only claim to fame is piracy and other than that, they’re just a bunch of leeches.
Well ok? Just seems like a baseless insult more than anything else.
As for Lyrion, I need statistics or a study.
Algeria’s rape rate is 2.2. France 16.2. Finland 15.2. Finland is mostly homogeneous.
“LOADED” is not me. Probably someone trying to make me look dumb and discredit my point.
There is great chance these statistics are falsified given how corrupted are governments/police in the arab world.
If you are a woman you know you can’t walk alone in any moroccan city streets at any time of day or night.
I’m Algerian, I don’t know much about Morocco and neither do you. Algeria is safe, but if you wear revealing clothing it’s considered incredibly disrespectful or people assume you are a prostitute.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardigan_Mountain_School
I don’t think Algeria falsifies details, I think European countries consider harassment rape, for example Sweden. The homicide rates are accurate.
You are being disingenuous Fenoopy. You can accept the Negroid is a subhuman based on a few personal experiences but when it come to your own people you close your eyes on reality and autisticly stick to data which obviously can’t be trusted.
Rape statistics are laughable.
http://www.geocurrents.info/geography-of-crime-and-punishment/misleading-murder-and-rape-maps-and-the-the-sweden-rape-puzzle
If global murder-rate figures are problematic, rape-rate figures appear to be almost worthless. Consider, for example, the Index Mundi rape-rate map posted here, which indicates that Sweden and New Zealand have some of the highest levels of rape in the world, and that Egypt has one of the lowest. Although the map comes with a disclaimer,* it is hardly adequate. Could anyone possibly believe that Sweden has a higher rape rate than Egypt? Egypt is currently suffering a rape epidemic so severe that it is becoming a diplomatic issue. Sweden, meanwhile, consistently rates as one of the most gender egalitarian, nonviolent countries in the world.
Even this map is suspicious as it would imply in Germany cultural barriers to reporting rape are intense just like in Turkey and Lybia.
As for murder rate you said it yourself :
“If your brother brings home a dead body, the Med asks where to bury it, the Nord calls the police. ”
Though you are classifying Italians and Spaniards in the same group as Moroccans and Lybians which I disagree with. These “clannish” caracteristics are much more developed south of the Mediterranean than north of it. Or may be it’s simply a matter of IQ.
Somalia’s murder rate lower than Finland’s… yeah!
“You can accept the Negroid is a subhuman based on a few personal experiences ”
I don’t actually believe Negroids are sub-human, I believe in merit, in other words, the individual is what matters. I was instigating when I used that inflammatory language. I believe Negroids are driven by a different temperament to the other races of man and depending on which specific ethnicity, are not as intelligent on average.
Studies done on GCSE* (which also has about a 0.7 correlation with IQ) test takers across the major British ethnic groups showed that the children of British black African immigrants scored at least as well and better than British whites (and they scored much better than British Caribbean blacks for that matter, who have a degree of white admixture).
“Though you are classifying Italians and Spaniards in the same group as Moroccans and Lybians which I disagree with. These “clannish” caracteristics are much more developed south of the Mediterranean than north of it. Or may be it’s simply a matter of IQ.”
You are right, they are more clannish, but the difference is very slight, being a 0.36 difference compared to the 2.02 difference between north Meds and Nordics. Though south Meds are slightly more clannish than north Meds, they are still 6 times closer to each other than they are to Nordics insofar as in-group collectivism goes.
“Somalia’s murder rate lower than Finland’s… yeah!”
The map is inaccurate, Somalia’s real homicide rate is 5.56, which is higher than the homicide rate in Yemen and America, not including deaths in the civil war. Finland’s homicide rate is 1.6, which is still quite high, given it’s higher than in Saudi Arabia. That said, there’s a different in punishment, given if you murder in Saudi Arabia you face capital punishment and beheading, whereas Finland it’s a jail sentence.
“you close your eyes on reality and autisticly stick to data which obviously can’t be trusted.”
I’m using trusted sources that make sense, not the maps you’re using. If you’re claiming the statistics are fabrications, there’s not much more evidence I can give you. I’m not ‘autistically sticking to data’ but rather staying away from using anecdotal experiences or opinions as evidence.
You’re using bad sources, Egypt is indeed has one of the highest rape rates in the world. Rape is one of the most common crimes in Egypt. Marital rape is not illegal in the country. By 2008, U.N. quoted Egypt’s Interior Ministry’s figure that 20,000 rapes take place every year, although according to the activist Engy Ghozlan (ECWR), rapes are 10 times higher than the stats given by Interior Ministry, making it 200,000 per year. Mona Eltahawy has also noted the same figure (200,000), and added that it was before the revolution, today the number is actually higher.
Sociopaths are classified in psychoatry as having a ‘personality disorder’. Unlike cluster a disorders you cant medicate a psychopath or anti social person to be humane and caring.
I t seems empathy/psychopathy is a completely different spectrum to autism schiz. In my personal experience both autistic people and schiz people ive met have high empathy. Its actually people most neurotypical that seem to be the most psychopathic.
I would be very interested to see the comorbity of schiz/autism and psychopathy. I bet its zero. But then maybe you can give famous examples like charles manson or josef stalin.
Probably Paddock is an example.For French, maybe you found the explanation. Your second sentence being the cause of the first one .
We still do not know if Philosopher can draw. The ability to draw, especially faces and expressions has to be the definitive marker of the highest social intelligence. Anime in Japan is supposed to be for adults not just children. Many in America copy the style but comics in America like the justice league are drawn like the Sistine Chapel. the quality can be really high. People that draw art are different. People that make video games are different. Most of game budgets go to art.
Well, it all leads back to the brain. Something makes them creative. The vision system and fine motor control, latent inhibition, preferences, and quality assessment.
I collect art all the time. If I had a printer my room would be different.
One problem for me is that I do not know how to use tools, digital tools, computer tools. Editing software. Artists have the visual capacity to remember what each tool does and then use it to create the art. And they have ideas all the time just combining with each other nonstop. Vission is so massively parallel that they can just see a solution to a problem because they saw all angles to the problem at once.
I use words instead of vision and also analogical reasoning which helps keep all the steps in order and move forward and backward to keep the entire process aligned. Since I use words I can be very abstract and reason down to core concepts for me to remember to utilize as a tool for concise explanation. Boiled down from the junk I was saying to find clarity of what I had not reached yet.
The arguments then need no elaboration because the clarity of the conveyed abstractions has already been reached. My understanding of the artistic process did not come from personal drawing experience but from assembling the necessary information I knew about it to make my word convey a meaningful structure. I see peoples actions and it all goes into my languages brain area. I use my reasoning abilities to try and understand things I am not capable of doing myself by utilizing my whole knowledge base of everything that must be relevant to what I see people doing I can’t. Thus the visual parallelism that allows the use of hundreds of tolls by visual memory alone.
I do not have visual parallelism. I am good at reasoning about some topics.
Do you like drawing Philosopher?
tools by visual memory alone
I cant draw.
I come bearing a message from Jimmy.
Jimmy
FEBRUARY 2, 2018 AT 2:56 AM (EDIT)
Could something plz post this on pp’s site
thanks
Fenoopy = pumpkin person
Lyrion falling for a PP sock puppet has got to be the most hilarious example of misplaced schizophrenia that i have ever seen.
If Lyrion was so obsessed with that sock puppet and still couldn’t figure out who he was then that’s a clear sign of inferior intelligence
why ?
if you were that obsessed then you should have noticed that
Fenoopy is the only poster who has a comment posted and then deleted after it contradicts his imaginary character bio
Fenoopy has even had his posts “deleted” and then reposted after he has been asked questions on a topic that he feigned knowledge in .
Deleting and then reposting his comment gave Fenoopy time to research the topic.
PP then reposted fenoopy’s comment with the responses to it .
Fenoopy has made some of the most laughable statements that no one who had his imaginary character bio would make
I just don’t have time to list all of his statements
Someone as obsessed as you should be able to list many
Fenoopy appeared shortly before i was banned. In fact, I was banned after i said that i knew who fenoopy was
clearly my ban was a pre-emptive strike to prevent me outing him
whenever Lyrion/truthteller or his other sock puppets would put a little heat under PPs feet he would start making fenoopy sound like me
examples:
Saying that he had a software engineering background
saying that he worked in the U.K
saying that he was an American
saying things about jews and asians that sound exactly like something i would say even if those statements would completely contradict his previous pro-jew/asian statements
I could go on and on but i just don’t have the time to list 50 reasons why fenoopy being pp is so obvious.
Lyrion/truth teller is such a mentally disabled untermensch that he simply does not have that ability to see through PPs little game
He fell for every dummy that PP sold him
It was both amusing and sad to see such a pathetic excuse for a human
He even started displaying some kind of messianic complex where he thought that he alone knew the truth and PP was stopping him for exposing Jimmy.
what the sad little untermensch was incapable of seeing was that PP wasn’t censoring his comments to protect me. He was doing it to protect himself.
Lyrion :
I sense some hostility and irritation in your comment PP, not sure why
nearly 🙂
PP thought that posting comments accusing me of being fenoopy would lead to me outing PP as the real fenoopy
He was right because that is exactly what is happening now
as for pp, you are such a pathetic and desperate clown.
You saw how the number of comments crashed after you banned me so you tried and failed to create a new me.
If it wasn’t for phil and mugabee, i would have probably taken down your site .
I am thinking about creating my own blog to post everything i know about PP.
He looks exactly how you would expect someone of his personality and background to look
it didn’t have to end this way pp
so sad
PP thought that posting comments accusing me of being fenoopy would lead to me outing PP as the real fenoopy
He was right because that is exactly what is happening now
That’s hilarious, but no, I’m not Fenoopy. I’m not that desperate for more comments.
In fact I’m not posting any further comments that mention Jimmy. If you want to talk about Jimmy, go to RR’s blog and talk about Jimmy with Jimmy.
LMFAO
I hope PP post this, that’s my last word on the subject.
I’m no longer accepting comments on that topic but you’re more than welcome to post it directly to jimmy on RR’s blog.
But you do have the right to defend yourself so I’ll copy and paste one part of your comment below:
Btw, Truthteller is not a sockpuppet it’s simply my previous pseudo I decided to get back to Lyrion as it was too trollish and common. This was never a secret.
RR won’t post my comments on his blog so I can’t [rest of comment redacted by pp, feb 2, 2018]
That’s strange. Maybe it’s just in moderation.
What a completly dishonest thing to do PP.
I already said i wasn’t allowing anymore comments on that topic but i tried to compromise by pasting just the part of your comment that was only about you.
But since it’s bothering you I’ll remove my whole reply
That’s even more dishonest, and childish for that matter.
Okay, i put my reply back.
As you wish.
Can we also re ban RR
No RR stays on topic
no worries peepee.
it’s not your fault.
every woman falls in love with me.
if true, the memo shows that comey and rosenstein and the fisa judge were either biased or retarded.
if true.
but carter page wasn’t a big deal in trump’s team.
so even if the memo is true it’s…
it’s neither a nothingburger nor a burger.
but people may go to jail.
and not for this memo but for the fire, so to say.
the scandal is NOT russian meddling.
the scandal is the promotion of russian meddling.
the mueller “investigation” is 100% pure scam.
[redacted by pp, feb 2, 2018]
Anyone who is literate and basically socially intelligent can see the russia thing is a way for the jews to promote trump into a corner whereby they cannot have friendly relations with Russia.
The whole russia charade is not to oust trump per se, but mainly to make it politically toxic to be friendly with Russia.
In this, the jews succeeded.
Nothing scares them more than white nationalist leaders of powerful nations building ties.
i found this picture of rr in montenegro.
Why did you photoshop his eyes blue?
lots of italians have blue eyes you fucking retarded mouse.
for example: old blue eyes = frank sinatra.
I bought Wolfs book and while he got kicked off MSNBC here for being a sleaze I actually tend to think everything in the book is kind of true, if a bit exaggerated.
Is trump banging Nikki Haley?
I remember reading a lot of rumours about Haley having affairs with people last year so it wouldn’t surprise me at all.
Its kind of funny msnbc going apeshit as Wolff about Haley.
Menawhile Rachel Maddow continues to spew that Russia nonsense and alienate 50% of her audience who doesn’t have an IQ below 80.
When I was a liberal I used to watch a lot of MSNBC. Even now its kind of shocking to me to see Maddow and co. push the Russia thing. I used to think liberals were the ones with more integrity.
I should have realised when they got rid of Dylan Ratigan, Cenk and Ed Schultz that msnbc is neoconservative.