I recently got an email from a college age man who was concerned that his VERBAL KNOWLEDGE INDEX (as I call it) was in the genius range (on both the children and adult version of the Wechsler) despite the rest of his cognitive profile being mediocre or low. When he asked his psychiatrist to interpret the results there was no helpful reply, so a friend of his suggested he contact me.
I’m not a psychiatrist so my opinions are for entertainment purposes only.
The first thing I did was correct all his subtest scores for norm inflation because the WISC-IV norms were 11 years old when he was tested and the WAIS-IV norms were a decade old. The sources I used were pg 240 of James Flynn’s Are We Getting SMARTER? and this table found here:
Such corrections are approximate because one can’t always assume that the rate of norm inflation can be extrapolated beyond the dates from which we have data and some subtests are so new, their rate of inflation had to be estimated using similar tests. In some cases there was norm deflation (see Coding in the table above, aka Digit Symbol).
The next thing I did was substitute the four index scores used on the WISC-IV and WAIS-IV with the five index scores used on the WISC-V. Again this gives only approximate results because the WISC-V index scores were built exclusively on WISC-V data and you’re not allowed to just substitute different versions, and in some cases I had to substitute subtests or adjust for not having the right number of subtests.
Nonetheless, the five factor model is so superior to the four-factor model, that for entertainment purposes only, I did it anyway.
The other liberty I took was calculating his overall IQ, by weighting all five indexes equally (the WISC-V gives equal weight to all core subtests, but more core subtests fall under some indexes than others).
| WISC-IV (2013) | WAIS-IV (2016) | |
|---|---|---|
| VERBAL KNOWLEDGE INDEX | 135 | 142 |
| Similarities | 17.23 | 18.4 |
| Vocabulary | 15.67 | 17.1 |
| (Information) | 12.55 | |
| (Comprehension) | 11 | |
| SPATIAL INDEX | 78 | 85 |
| Block Design | 5.56 | 6.73 |
| Visual Puzzles | ||
| ABSTRACT INDEX | 102 | 117 |
| Matrix Reasoning | 8.4 | 13.45 |
| ( Picture Concepts) | 12.4 | |
| WORKING MEMORY INDEX | 90 | 84 |
| Digit Span | 7.89 | 7.73 |
| (Arithmetic) | 7 | |
| (Letter number sequence) | 8.89 | |
| PROCESSING INDEX | 87 | 96 |
| Digit Symbol | 8.66 | 7.81 |
| Symbol Search | 6.66 | 10.81 |
| OVERALL IQ | 98 | 106 |
The first thing we notice is remarkable stability as we move from the children’s scale (2013) to the adult scale (2016). In 2013 his overall IQ was slightly below the U.S. mean of 100; in 2016 he scored slightly above, and even this modest increase might be partly explained by practice effect.
In 2013 his profile was verbal > abstract > working memory > processing > spatial. In 2016, verbal > abstract > processing > spatial > working memory. In other words there is a near perfect 0.95 correlation between his cognitive profile in 2013 and 2016, despite the fact that different versions of the Wechsler (with different questions) were used on each date.
Vertical reliability vs horizontal reliability
Reliability (not to be confused with stability) is typically measured by dividing all the items on a test in half in some random way (e.g. odd vs even numbered items). If the total score on all the odd number items correlates well with one’s score on all the even numbered items, this suggests your score was reliable, because it internally self-replicates. The reliability of the Wechsler scales are so high at the full-scale level that they are said to have a standard error of only 2 points, meaning in 2/3rd of all cases, one’s score is within 2 points of one’s “true” score and in 95% of cases, one’s score is within 4 points of one’s true score.
But what is true score? True overall score is the overall score one would get on the Wechsler if we could make every subtest infinitely long, yet factor out fatigue, practice effects, and ageing.
However I propose an alterative definition of true overall score: the overall score one would get on the Wechsler if we could increase the number of subtests to infinity, yet factor out fatigue, practice effects, and ageing. But since many subtests redundantly measure the same functions, what we really want to do is increase the number of index scores to if not infinity, then the maximum number that exist within the human mind. Let’s call this horizontal true score, to distinguish it from the typical definition of true score, which we can call vertical true score.
To measure horizontal true score, imagine we were doing a poll of the average IQ in a given school. If we tested five students, and they had an average IQ of 80 with an SD of 10, then the standard error of our poll would be 10 divided by the square root of our sample size.
Now instead of trying to find the average IQ of different people in a school, we’re instead trying to find the average index score of different talents within the same mind. Once we find the standard error of the average index score, we could convert it to standard error of overall IQ (because index scores are imperfectly correlated, one’s composite score on multiples indexes tends to be more extreme than one’s average index score). Multiplying the standard error by 1.96 and then adding and subtracting it from the overall IQ gives the 95% confidence band.
Based on the amount of scatter, I calculate that all we can say with 95% certainty is that the subject’s true horizontal overall score is anywhere from IQ 73 to IQ 122 (in 2013) and anywhere from IQ 78 to IQ 133 (in 2016).
So the subject is either very smart, or very not-smart but we can’t be more precise than that without running several more tests.
Career advise
Subject will be disapointed that I didn’t devote more content to this section, but there’s only so much career advise to be gained from Wechsler test results. He is a genius at overall verbal knowledge, but only slightly above average at social knowledge (comprehension), slight below average at processing and poor at working memory and arithmetic. His social knowledge is not poor (and given the low reliability of a single subtest, should not be over-interpreted), and when combined with his genius overall verbal knowledge, he would probably have a competitive edge. I suggest he pursue whatever he field he is passionate about, as long as it’s not closely related to law, STEM, clerical or visual technical skills because these require working memory, arithmetic, processing speed and spatial ability respectively.
Pumpkin Person 
If not for the low arithmetic score I would guess this fellow to be Ashkenazi.
What about standard error on individual subtests, would that narrow the results any?
Just double-checking, but I assume norm inflation takes into account changing demographics?
so muslims were the romans and greeks for a few hundred years.
what ever happened to islam?
jewish “scholar” on charlie rose said, “because islam never used their women folk…christendom did…eventually.”
this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lewis
btw, for the dumb “islam” refers to the territory and people of muslims, not just to the religion.
Mathematical ability is above average.
addictions dependencies and a propensities for illicit drugs is also high.
this is my tendency for a high IQ according to Genomelink. I wonder what others on this site wouldve gotten. there were 17 SNPs used/measured and each had a scientific reliability.
Haven’t used that site but did have my genome sequenced via Nebula Genomics, and they provide polygenic scores. Still, the variance explained is tiny so I don’t give it much credence.
Just made an account how do i access these results in particular?
just made an account this is interesting as hell. for example my risk tolerance is 68th percentile, parental lifespan is 87th percentile, fat consumption is 8th percentile etc.
very interesting reports.
The implicated genes probably won’t account for more than a few percent of total IQ variance, or even total additive genetic variance. So it has little predictive value.
Although I do wonder what I would get…
of course but its still quite the dopamine rush to know your potential is still there even if it has to be extrapolated a lot further.
Pumpkin I know youve claimed Indian American IQ is 112 but the data is from prior 2010. Indian Americans only made up 1% of the pop then and now make up 1.2% of the population in the United States which is a small mark-up but still matters.
how much do you think Indian American IQ has increased or dropped since then? Id wager with different immigration laws in place than in the 2000s the IQ dropped a couple points at least.
what are your thoughts Pumpkin?
You have to pay for most of the reports. It’s a monthly subscription. I had my genome sequenced by them, though I think you can upload 23andMe genotyping data.
They claim PGS can explain 35% of cerebral cortex surface area heritability. PGS percentile is computed relative to 5,000 reference genomes.
i posted my cortical surface area (91st percentile) further down the comment section. i am most definitely going to subscribe.
i already have a subscription to Genomelink which is many times less informative than this site and they both cost the same monthly so I might just cancel Genomelink and do this one instead lol. or keep both if i can. 28 dollars a month is barely an expense for someone with a 60th percentile household income.
my greatest weakness is overthinking which can be attributed to excess empathy. but because i am a male i can switch that on and off very quickly and turn into a very angry and frustrated person if i feel wronged. just a heads up.
Maybe he would like programming.
I am like in the 90th percentile for risk-taking when compared to the British general pop.
with over a hundred SNPs analyzed they found that my genetic percentile score or propensity or whatever is basically the 68th percentile.
I AM A RISK-TAKER.
You might be surprised by this, but programming has a large spatial aspect.
People sleep on this because all they see is the language. But at a higher resolution, computer science, largely dominated by its subset field, Software Engineering, is basically a block design exercise.
Didn’t know that!
Along with what Billy said about software engineering being somewhat like Block Design, understanding algorithms also loads on spatial ability. Sorting algorithms are a good example.
I advise him to pursue whatever field he wants to. I believe in g factor and he can improve those areas he is weak in with practice. When I was his age I was not good at some of those same things and now I am good in them. Don’t let nonsense like an IQ test hold you back. Your brain will develop more.
my bad PP you can delete that other comment here is the schiz predictor that i got from GenePlaza:
thank you Pumpkin.
My brain volume on Nebula Genomics was determined by three different sets of loci. The one with the most loci examined came out to 90th percentile
In a perfect world genes would account for one hundred percent expression of ones traits. basically because we will nurture people to their talents etc. there would be a stronger expression of the genes in the sense that their effects would be amplified by the environment as well.
what are your takes on this? when is nature more important and when is nurture more important because it is trait dependent?
Handy list: https://www.snpedia.com/index.php?title=Heritability
very cool list but no intelligence on there. i think heritability also has variations from person to person based on how epigenetics and nurture might work on a person.
very interesting regardless.
how heritable do you think spatial intelligence is compared to verbal?
You can probably just google “meta-analysis heritability verbal”. Spatial seems to have an additive heritability of 61%:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289618301314
(Not sure what the difference between a2 and h2 is.)
this one i found to be very interesting:
it was based on 250 loci many of which came up for me (Im using Ancestry’s raw data) so it is very accurate. I guess I have that cortical thickness to me.
90th percentile leisure TV watching jfl. 60th percentile income 55th percentile anhedonia, 2nd percentile heart failure.
77th percentile facial attractiveness too. who you calling ugly. lol 🙂
I bought the subscription and found out I had a 44th percentile intelligence score. my well-being score was 95th percentile and psychosis score was 0% even though i was diagnosed with psychosis awhile back. funny thing is i scored 1st percentile for fish and plant based diet and i am a pescatarian and thats all i eat.
i was high 80s percentile for T 8th percentile for anxiety 2nd percentile for loneliness. also a hundredth percentile for insomnia and vitamin D levels.
one thing that has me scared is the 98th percentile of critical COVID-19 illness. damn.
as derrida says, “not to naturalize what is unnatural is one of the gestures of deconstruction.”
so politics, IQ, etc. are all social phenomena, and humans are a social animal, unlike most, but human society is naturally no more than 72 people or whatever…
and people live in yuge societies for economic reasons, but then…
they forget how to be wild. i know i can eat animals and not die, but i have no idea what the edible plants are in my area…and no one does.
this is why the most UN-Cynical behavior is seen in cities.
so there’s this yuge tell in 99.99% of genuine leftists and 100% of fake leftists…they don’t appreciate how UN-natural yuge human societies are and how the government management of the economic expediency of large societies means a dimuntion of freedom for its members, means unformed thugs, and people hate this.
like i’m totally down with central planning too…as long as i’m the central planner…the problem is central planning is even shittier than no planning if shitty stupid people do it.
i wish soros actually understood what popper meant by an “open society”. but he’s shown that he doesn’t or someone else is controlling his money.
the “open society” means a society that can try various things and go with whatever works, a non-ideological society. it makes politics an experimental science, or just a science. it makes goverment something that evolves via selection or de-selection of various “mutations”.
the supernatural can be explained by a simulation hypothesis like how different phenomenon are being expressed in our Universe by having a 5th or 6th dimension in relation to our own.
thats just my belief though.
exactly. the so-called supernatural may just be part of an extended nature. like my mother claims she knew the instant her mother died even though she eas in brazil.
science can never answer the question “why are physical laws what they are and not another way?” vulgar materialists habitually confuse ἐπιστήμη with ὄντος, what is known or can conceivably be known in this sublunary realm with what is in toto.
life is confusingly beautiful isnt it.
“life is confusingly beautiful isnt it.”
Yes, I feel that much in life is, as you say, confusingly beautiful – even profoundly so. Moreover, I feel, there is profundity in beauty itself, and that we’ve understated its significance, associating it with “mere” emotion.
life is beautiful but in an ironic way. it is very disturbing to many because it is so surreal and the consequences of living are many compared to the rewards.
i would describe life as the sublime.
rap is the ultimate genre because it is the purest form of charisma. it factors in all three characteristics of charisma:
1. warmth (in their case anti-warmth
2. presence
3. competency
to be a great rapper you must have all three dimensions of charisma. this is why it s so popular amongst practically everybody and their mothers.
so jimmy carter would be a bad rapper? he has been described as “anticharismatic”.
rapping takes the form of another charisma. what is charisma to many might just be bullshit to another. but if jimmy carter was indeed anticharismatic then yes his raps would not be good at all.
rap is about conveying the message. charisma is the tool that lets it happen. the message whatever it is (hoes cars or something deep) is the important thing but without charisma theres no way to achieve this.
Apparently on the WISC-V you aren’t allowed to make test substitutions in calculating index scores, but you can for the FSIQ. That’s what happens when you have 10 subtests spread thinly across 5 factors. I’d go for 3 subtests per index and accept the longer administration time.
Indian-American Abhimanyu Mishra becomes youngest Grandmaster in chess history
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/abhimanyu-mishra-chess-youngest-grandmaster-052102361.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACYeSVOpQ528HIsDvBpwnKHahbgstUFnGj6zZtXYe3kfa4_dLyOETTWpDiE128GyfhLnUD1zlz16khGXSoZ2OAphwRZst-pyj-wH5HgGCPuGH1qdLjlfyF3I0QXhwlFeDzQQfvcjsqPA30_OpL_n22B0IBzE8ZC35Ap5VhHzUOaO&guccounter=2
lol at his 35 game winless streak. “grandmaster” my ass.
PP most assuredly has mania or some other form of bipolar it is very characteristic in the behaviors of this person. also a bit of schizoid thrown in too.
Pill Nietzschianism is all about overcoming ones genetics.
the marxist explanation for why elon musk is rich and mugabe is poor would be that musk is exploiting mugabe.
exploitation is real, the cachorreo system is a yuge example, but the reason why elon musk is rich and mugabe is poor is…
1. totally different background.
2. musk is simply smarter than/superior to mugabe in some ways.
3. musk is infinitely more ambitious and hard working than mugabe.
i don’t envy musk. i’d rather be me than be him.
but does musk make bank while his employees don’t?
yes.
and in this sense i am a marxist.
here’s an example of a UCLA phycisist making a fool of himself like the carlsen blitz vid. but i expect there’s more to the story.
ucla is a very prestigous american uni. top 10.
btw, just to show the complexity of the world…
the brazilians assumed my parents were spies.
they weren’t.
they were just so-called “goodwill ambassadors”.
my dad did set up a co-op produce market.
but in general their job was just to survive for two years and make a positive impression on the locals…
but more than half of the volunteers caught some permanent parasite like schisto or the kissing bug.
so it was a death sentence…no kidding.
all for propaganda reasons…
in the cold war.
Are you one of the Boys from Brazil?
no. but they are the dudes behind UAPs and peepee is in denial.
UAPs are from THIS world.
if aliens exist human belief in religion becomes almost desolate because there is no compatibly between an anthrocentric religion and the truth anymore.
except maybe reincarnation because we can incarnate into aliens.
Hinduism wont go anywhere if aliens exist. It also believed in reincarnation.
the “kissing bug” imparts chagas.
an incurable disease.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagas_disease
was called a rapist over text according to a guy i knew in high school. if only they knew my artistic side.
i saw this girl yesterday. she checked me out at whole foods, but didn’t check me out…
her name tag said “fiona”. pale with freckles and short hair, but so pretty, her eyes…
there’s a song called “when irish eyes are smiling”.
i think this is an actual HBD thing, but not unique to the irish, just most common among them.
it’s not the color of the eye. fiona had hazel eyes.
lots of fat around the eye is one charcteristic.
some HBDer should investigate this pehenomenon.
irish setters are also noted for their uniquely almond shaped eyes among dogs.
i mean basically germany had and has had the yuge GEOGRAPHIC disadvantage of not having a coastline and never having been part of the roman (colonial) empire.
so germans say:
WAIT! we’re smarter than you guys, but you guys have all these colonies because you have a coastline…
…
if white people are so sumpremacist why have they been killing each other by the ass ton for millennia?
SERIOUSLY!?
Germany didn’t exist until 1870, then they had both coastline and colonies:
i have an 11th and 19th percentile disposition for Alzheimer’s. 99th percentile for Parkinson’s.
my cognitive abilities will always be very good and intact but my health will deteriorate significantly. wow. hope i choose not to live long enough to see that happen.
obviously. [redacted by pp, 2021-07-04]
germany was not a seafaring, colonizing country because its coastline is so tiny. there was the hanseatic league. holland was no larger than some german states prior to unification, yet holland was a colonial power. it fought wars with the british. the pilgrims stopped in holland on their way to america. it has gobs of muslim indonesians today.
britain is an island. france’s borders are mostly sea. same with spain and portugal.
italy is nearly surrounded by the med and columbus was a genovese but it too was not united until the latter half of the 19th c and the med vs the atlantic is a big vs.
it’s georgraphy [redacted by pp, 2021-07-04]
germany was screwed.
thus the great war and thus ww ii.
“its coastline is so tiny.”
Doesn’t look tiny to me, not like they didn’t have room for ports. They just unified late.
Scandinavia were big colonizers in viking times but not so much later on, despite unchanged geography. Other factors at play.
there are many forms of charisma. one form is dark triad charisma and another form is warmth charisma.. the latter requires benevolence and a deep connection with the other person while the former is about playing into another persons vulnerabilities in my opinion.
wasnt Jimmy Carter the warmest most conscientious President out there? his presence and competence sucked so yes he was very lacking in charisma in that way for sure.
rappers have dark triad charisma. a lot of it.
“you got a problem with the Mob like Giuliani.”
Heard while cycling an MIT easy conférence on Intelligence by John Gabrieli.
The guy is obviously not totally honest when he brings up racial differences in IQ data but he points to the Eyferth study wich I have not been dealt with by HBD writers.
I would imagine that checking this study out would be very important for both sides.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyferth_study
The fact that this 1960 study has not been replicated in the environment of scholars ardently desiring it’s results to be true speaks at least about there high doubts of it being replicable to the least …
That an MIT professor cites it as the state of the knowledge on race differences in an MIT Psy class also speaks about university « freedoms » today.
I’ve discussed this study before:
A second study by Eyferth (1961) found that the biological illegitimate children of white German women had a mean IQ of 97.2 if the biological father was was a white soldier and 96.5 if the biological father was a black soldier (a trivial difference). Both the white and mixed kids were raised by their biological white mothers. One problem with this study is that the biological fathers of both races would have been screened to have similar IQ’s because at the time, only the highest scoring 97% of whites and highest scoring 70% of blacks passed the Army General Classification Test and were allowed to be U.S. soldiers. In addition, 20% to 25% of the “black fathers” were not African-American or even black Africans, but rather French North Africans (non-white caucasoids or “dark whites” as they are sometimes called). In addition, there was no follow-up to measure the adult IQ of the children.
Thanks Pumpkin. In regard of those elements, the MIT professor is so desingenuous …
A black person’s IQ really is an 89 now imo. whites is 97. at least in america.
thats me guessing though. blacks are smart but they have a lot of issues with overcoming intellectual challenges and stumbling blocks. their understanding of deeper things is highly limited. abstract knowledge and application is almost deficient. almost like billy.
If AA are on average 20%-25% white. That would give for the Afro part from 85,3 to 86,25 IQ then. You have to deflate the non black %.
coastline length to area ratio according to woke-ipedia.
uk 51.4
portugal 19.6
netherlands 13.3
spain 9.95
france 7.58
germany 6.85
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_length_of_coastline
at the height of the british empire, what its leaders thought was the new rome, there was a saying:
“whoever rules the waves, rules the world.”
and of course the british empire at its greatest extent makes the mongol empire look small. sad.
https://about-history.com/list-of-10-largest-empires-in-history/
but this all makes the frightening (to peepee) point that it is impossible to understand why people did what they did a long time ago…and that nazism can never happen again any more than bolshevism. both are trapped in their time like a bug in amber.
after sokoban and sodoku latest puzzle craze out of japan is kenken. it’s like sodoku but with a larger penis.
Sudoku is lame, but I’m probably a world-class cruciverbalist for my age group.
why won’t peepee approve the comment with the video of pigs being gassed?
the doctrine of ἀποκατάστασις may be kind of dangerous, but no more so than the doctrine of karma.
some guy with an arabic accent claiming to be from the “heart of the middle east” has the following idea:
at the last judgement some (the saved) will be spared punishment equal to the suffering they have caused while others (the not saved) will suffer as much as they have caused suffering…but this period ends and all will be reconciled to God.
There is no such thing as collective suffering. A person only experiences their own self. And any collective punishment is carried out by individuals.
Utilitarianism is not an advance in morals.
neither is punishment
they are the same thing
yes islam is interesting. ganzir thoughts?
I briefly considered pretending to convert to Islam. What I like about it is that its promises of heaven for believers, temporary hell for sinful believers, and permanent hell for infidels give a concrete reason to obey social codes, rather than the “because we said so” mentality which prevails in society today. It also promotes a healthy economy based on productive labor, reduces income inequality through compulsory wealth redistribution, and maintains a healthy acceptance of sexuality while forbidding more dangerous pleasures.
Ignorance, intolerance, murder, and getting up at 5 in the morning to pray fajr are deal-breakers though.
islam is a cult. anyone who wholeheartedly believes in the vile things in the religion is probably not a good person. it preaches and establishes perversions of the human mind. honestly i think islam is incompatible with the 21st century and beyond.
“Cult” is an arbitrary term. Religion is brainwashing, pure and simple. If a group’s beliefs are don’t require indoctrination, they’re not a religion.
don’t require*
YOU’RE TALKING IN ABSTRACTIONS NOAM!
WHO ARE THE POWEFUL?
ANSWER THE QUESTION!
Noam is a dumb person’s smart person. Gets in his own way like a cow who produces great milk and then kicks the bucket over. If only he had access to Google before becoming senile, he may have been able to see the truth.
God is most powerful but God is also an abstraction.
That is why it is stupid to say God punishes. Because it is only one speculation. Why punish. WHy? No reason. just vindication. Suffering only happens in this world. Because suffering is physical. In the next world, the punishment is why? Because it is abstract because God has reason X. I believe is pointless because I criticize you and your God abstraction. No punishment takes place and that is my abstraction because it is a superirior God.
FIFA requires many skills but these are the ones that are most prevalent:
1. spatial awareness in the form of crystallization of patterns
2. strategy
3. good understanding of soccer/football
4. reaction times
5. fluency
Stroops tasks and attention games can improve FIFA playing ability tbh.
these apply to madden as well.
What is the most g-loaded video game? Tetris? Most of the top Melee players seem pretty smart.
what % of untreated pulmonary tuberculosis patients died from tuberculosis? this was the leading cause of death in germany in the early 19th c, for example, supposedly.
that is, it was NOT 100% fatal. sometimes people cured themselves with the help of whatever prior to antibiotics.
what % was that some?
if this is true it again demonstrates that when the lowest jobs are done by other people…or a small minoroty can specialize in higher Iq economic niches…the average IQ is higher and otherwise it’s not. but then one might expect that whites in california and even mississippi should score higher than whites in vermont.
https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-new-2018-pisa-school-test-scores-usa-usa/
mugabe claimed milo was not jewish and not gay. he’s right on both. heeheehee.
I believe innate Greek VIQ rivals that of Jews. We’re just lazy people. Milo is obviously gay as fuck.
Interesting theory; before IQ tests were invented Galton estimated the ancient Greeks to be the most intelligent on Earth as Ganzir reminded me
Galton estimated them at “two grades” above the white Brits of his time. If I remember correctly, that works out to something like 10 points per grade on his eminence scale, so 20 points above. I think that’s a major overestimate caused largely by his overrating eminent Athenians because of the emphasis they received in classical education and intellectual culture. For instance, his claim that, “We have no men to put by the side of Socrates and Phidias, because the millions of all Europe, breeding as they have done for the subsequent 2,000 years, have never produced their equals” is nonsense, in my opinion. I think we’ve produced many equals and even superiors to them, just not ones who arrived early enough, and with sufficiently fortuitous levels of record-keeping and cultural admiration, to develop the same legacy.
Still, his basic argument appears sound. I speculate that the ancient Greeks were more like two-thirds of a grade to one-and-one-half of a grade above Galton’s contemporary Britain, so about 7 to 15 points.
For reference, the section of Hereditary Genius where Galton discusses this:
The ablest race of whom history bears record is unquestionably the ancient Greek, partly because their master-pieces in the principal departments of intellectual activity are still unsurpassed, and in many respects unequalled, and partly because the population that gave birth to the creators of those master-pieces was very small. Of the various Greek sub-races, that of Attica was the ablest, and she was no doubt largely indebted to the following cause, for her superiority. Athens opened her arms to immigrants, but not indiscriminately, for her social life was such that none but very able men could take any pleasure in it; on the other hand, she offered attractions such as men of the highest ability and culture could find in no other city. Thus, by a system of partly unconscious selection, she built up a magnificent breed of human animals, which, in the space of one century—viz. between 530 and 430 B.C.—produced the following illustrious persons, fourteen in number:—
Statesmen and Commanders.—Themistocles (mother an alien), Miltiades, Aristeides, Cimon (son of Miltiades), Pericles (son of Xanthippus, the victor at Mycale).
Literary and Scientific Men.—Thucydides, Socrates, Xenophon, Plato.
Poets.— Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Aristophanes.
Sculptor.—Phidias.
We are able to make a closely-approximate estimate of the population that produced these men, because the number of the inhabitants of Attica has been a matter of frequent inquiry, and critics appear at length to be quite agreed in the general results. It seems that the little district of Attica contained, during its most flourishing period (Smith’s Class. Geog. Dict.), less than 90,000 native free-born persons, 40,000 resident aliens, and a labouring and artisan population of 400,000 slaves. The first item is the only one that concerns us here, namely, the 90,000 free-born persons. Again, the common estimate that population renews itself three times in a century is very close to the truth, and may be accepted in the present case. Consequently, we have to deal with a total population of 270,000 free-born persons, or 135,000 males, born in the century I have named. Of these, about one-half, or 67,500, would survive the age of 26, and one-third, or 45,000, would survive that of 50. As 14 Athenians became illustrious, the selection is only as 1 to 4,822 in respect to the former limitation, and as 1 to 3,214 in respect to the latter. Referring to the table in page 34, it will be seen that this degree of selection corresponds very fairly to the classes F (1 in 4,300) and above, of the Athenian race. Again, as G is one-sixteenth or one-seventeenth as numerous as F, it would be reasonable to expect to find one of class G among the fourteen; we might, however, by accident, meet with two, three, or even four of that class— say Pericles, Socrates, Plato, and Phidias.
Now let us attempt to compare the Athenian standard of ability with that of our own race and time. We have no men to put by the side of Socrates and Phidias, because the millions of all Europe, breeding as they have done for the subsequent 2,000 years, have never produced their equals. They are, therefore, two or three grades above our G—they might rank as I or J. But, supposing we do not count them at all, saying that some freak of nature acting at that time, may have produced them, what must we say about the rest? Pericles and Plato would rank, I suppose, the one among the greatest of philosophical statesmen, and the other as at least the equal of Lord Bacon. They would, therefore, stand somewhere among our unclassed X, one or two grades above G—let us call them between H and I. All the remainder—the F of the Athenian race— would rank above our G, and equal to or close upon our H. It follows from all this, that the average ability of the Athenian race is, on the lowest possible estimate, very nearly two grades higher than our own—that is, about as much as our race is above that of the African negro. This estimate, which may seem prodigious to some, is confirmed by the quick intelligence and high culture of the Athenian commonalty, before whom literary works were recited, and works of art exhibited, of a far more severe character than could possibly be appreciated by the average of our race, the calibre of whose intellect is easily gauged by a glance at the contents of a railway book-stall.
We know, and may guess something more, of the reason why this marvellously-gifted race declined. Social morality grew exceedingly lax; marriage became unfashionable, and was avoided; many of the more ambitious and accomplished women were avowed courtesans, and consequently infertile, and the mothers of the incoming population were of a heterogeneous class. In a small sea-bordered country, where emigration and immigration are constantly going on, and where the manners are as dissolute as were those of Greece in the period of which I speak, the purity of a race would necessarily fail. It can be, therefore, no surprise to us, though it has been a severe misfortune to humanity, that the high Athenian breed decayed and disappeared; for if it had maintained its excellence, and had multiplied and spread over large countries, displacing inferior populations (which it well might have done, for it was exceedingly prolific), it would assuredly have accomplished results advantageous to human civilization, to a degree that transcends our powers of imagination.
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/ancient-greeks-not-geniuses/
I remember from reading Jensen G factor, on your piece of advice, citing Galton guesstimates, wrote that Greeks were around two grades (20,9 IQ points, if Jensen is accurate) above English on average and black people at least two grades below. For 100% black people, 80 in rich countries and 70 in poor Africa are recurring figures. So that’s a pretty good guess !
If ashkenazim American have been around 112, Greek urban citizens have probably been higher.
I guess that Singapour, Shanghai or Palo Alto (CA) are not far from that. And a good number of
Zip codes in many cities in the world.
@Ganzir, “Literary and Scientific Men.—Thucydides, Socrates, Xenophon, Plato.” Weird that he didn’t include even one mathematician
bruno reminds me of a black guy. very intelligent but not very educated. (not literally since apparently this Bruno guy has some of the highest degrees out there but metaphorically he struggles with understanding new situations well thanks to autism)
the greeks are a great counterexample to hbd.
unless one believes that 4th c bc greeks were very different from modern greeks genetically.
aristotle, plato, euclid, etc. compared to the ancient greeks jewish intellectual accomplishment was pathetic.
the roman empire may be viewed as an early form of colonialism by a technologically superior people. i wonder if the greek empire can also be viewed that way. “alexander wept when there were no more lands to conquer.”
Rome copied the pursia empire.
citation?
i had dissociative childhood for much of my childhood. not due to trauma necessarily though some of it could be attributed to such. mainly because i was just not very motivated to live as a child tbh.
the best thing to do here is get the polygenic scores obviously. Myceneans the ancestors of Athenians etc. were very high for these polygenic scores implying an IQ similar to that of Victorian England.
If Jewish verbal is ~120 (117) then Myceneans wouldve had a comparable IQ and so would the peak of ancient Athens.
if someone genuinely opposes a label, identity which others would assign him, why be cruel and insist, “no. you are what i say you are. idiot.”
“if everyone acted on, identified with his urges”
Mug of Pee needs to define gayness as ACTING on urges to exclude himself from the category. The one thing Santo & Afro could agree on. You are Queer as Folk.
so oprah did NOT cure your homophobia?
sad.
peepee is such an anti-christ.
mugabe has no urges to have gay sex, but he does love gay porn.
so oprah did NOT cure your homophobia?
not homophobic, I’m closetphobic. Come out of the closet!
mugabe has no urges to have gay sex,
Notice how Mug of Pee does NOT deny urge to have sex or romance with men, all he denies are urges to have gay sex (aka sodomy) once again defining gayness so narrowly that he can truthfully deny it.
but i do admit that i have a feeling a nausea when i think about having sex with black women.
sad.
“I’m closetphobic”
At least you’re not closetphobic in the same way as Mug of Pee who probably still thinks monsters live in there
my dog has taught me that platonic forms are real. there’s no other explanation for him.
irish setters aren’t always beautiful but, as was remarked at westminster this year, they are generally regarded as the most beautiful breed.
my irish setter is something more.
and my irish setter before him too.
every single time!
“beautiful dog…stunning…gorgeous…” from men and women, old and young.
the beauty is too much for them. they are compelled to ejaculate
“beautiful dog…stunning…gorgeous…”
my two last dogs conform to the dog form like secretariat conformed to the racehorse form.
Throwing all your love towards your dog is a way of avoiding the fact that you are gay.
peepee has to believe in my gayness because she is an UN-attractive black woman.\
sad.
how many times have i prayed, “God please make me gay”?
because fags have it easy.
Mug of Pee claims to love women, and also claims to be tall, robust, well hung, and very good looking, yet of all the thousands of unsolicited life stories he has shared with us, covering decades of his peak sexual years, never once has he mentioned a girlfriend, wife or lover with the exception of one half-Jewish girl who so broke his heart he’s apparently been celibate for decades (if not a lifelong virgin).
Either he’s gay (which would explain the many male sex symbols he’s posted in the comment section) or he has a severe psychiatric disorder that prevents him from relating to people. Or both.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/a_to_z/schizotypal-personality-disorder-a-to-z#:~:text=People%20with%20schizotypal%20personality%20disorder,adulthood%20and%20continues%20throughout%20life.
Mug is a bully victim honestly. didnt get enough love as a child and lashes out on the internet. sad.
it’s true. my svere psychiatric disorder makes it impossible to relate to “people”.
two jews and 9,000
1) no way of knowing she was fooled or just playing along for ratings
2) Anyone who isn’t psychic will be fooled hundreds of times when they interact with that many people. Unless, they pay a price, who cares.
3) You were fooled into thinking Cosby was innocent and Trump won election.
This is my dog.
Somehow you strike me more as a cat person.
mugabe has no preference.
he is ONLY interested in women.
but he loves gay porn.
because frustrated black lesbian peepee believes that no hetrosexual men have IQs higher than oprah.
a great example of this is peepee.
1. peepee is black.
2. peepee is a lesbian.
but peepee hates her identity so much she accuses people of psychosis who mention her identity.
you typically have to be at least 5’9″ to donate sperm & preferably white. No amount of muscle will make your sperm valuable if you’re short, and may even lower the value if it’s too much.
im assuming this was meant as a reply to me lol. yeah i dunno maybe just have to impregnate a bitch the natural way then.
any one got hot sisters that need some pakistani spunk in them? high IQ here. youll also be an uncle to an incredible child. ubermensch.
ill legit take any female members that need impregnation from a swarthy hunk like me.
Jack LaLanne was 5’6″
@Loaded, you can try to impregnate me, but don’t have too high hopes. I’m 5.54 ft – what’s the best position for us?
Nobody’s impregnating anyone.
wait Vegan I thought you said much earlier this year that you had no specific interest in me and that you were a gender fluid gay male.
what is true and what is not. explain.
@Loaded, I’m not sure I’m gender fluid – just a suspicion. I don’t recall I said I have no interest in you, sexually. I’m rarely not interested in a guy, sexually. My point is, let’s fuck. Don’t make this hard lol
okay lets do it then! any way you can convince Pumpkin to arrange this then since the likelihood of listening to me is minimal.
No one’s having sex with anyone.
why not Pumpkin. i know youve had sex with the marsha and other female members here dont deny it.
Even I’m not good enough for Marsha. She dates male fashion models with IQs above 150 (at least one of them)
I’m definitely not having sex with anyone. My karma in this birth/life is a celibate bitch!
shes at least 45 years old. shes a hag. what do you mean youre not good for her? you have that low self confidence bro? cmon now.
but high IQ women age well. She doesn’t date guys over 25.
idgaf who shes dating shes some old creep tbh. im not trying to be mean life is what it is!
Shes a prostitute. I’m not sure what she does is called ‘dating’ in the way me and you would mean it.
Whos is this Marsha, who is apparently my idol? Fashion models with IQ>150? Wow. OK, hot basketball players with IQ125.
@Loaded, Not sure I have a high IQ, but I *have* read quotes by Schopenhauer, so there’s that, lol.
i never asked about your iq vegan not sure where you got that from? personally i am only a 120 but my genetic potential is 135. with genetic recombination im assuredly certain that the kid would turn out smart.
are you more autistic or schiz?i think with the right temperament of the woman the kid would turn out extremely sociable and likable.
” in this day and age high IQ people must breed with high IQ people to preserve the status quo.”
Didn’t you assume that I have a high IQ right there? (also, that I have a uterus etc)
I have severe OCD (diagnosed) and perhaps a little Tourette’s (one doctor’s suspicion). No autism or anything else. I do suspect I might have ADD or ADHD.
i plan on donating sperm by the end of the year guys. what do yall think? i know a former commenter named Mikey Blayze did so i feel like itd be a good idea.
however i am a five feet four overweight indian guy dont know if many would want my genetics. though i am robust.
my sister turned 24 today. i am 25 for reference. she is five feet seven inches tall whereas i am five feet four inches tall.
look at genetic recombination in action.
weird. were you both born in the same country?
yes! my dad is five feet eight my mom five feet one. i have a half-white brother from fathers side that is 5 9 as well.
the majority of my cousins on my mothers side who were all born and raised in pakistan are much much taller than me with most of them 6 feet plus!
this is a real-life and very extreme example of how genetic recombination can merit many results to related offspring.
even weirder is that we were both born in America but she lived the majority of her toddler years in Pakistan whereas i remained in the West.
PP’s right.
The people who believe Milo isn’t gay are just hoping homosexuality can be cured or overcome.
SAD!!
My sister has a yuge head for a female/girl/woman. I bet its bigger than mine almost certainly because she is taller than me.
shes contending with Oprah for biggest female-brain tbh.
PP, in your previous articles you’ve talked about how you can’t judge people by a test they’re selected for.
So, if I’m understanding you, what you’re saying is that in the college population, because they’re selected by the SAT, they’ll regress to the mean as expected on IQ, but because billionaires are selected by a correlated metric, it could be said it’s their huge income that’s regressing onto their SAT/IQ, and thus no further corrections have to be made?
Correct
there are in fact a sizeable number of immigrants to china, et al from propinquitous countries like russia, vietnam, the philippines, etc. aren’t there?
turks were invited to germany to rebuild after jews bombed it back to the stone age. and they stayed. algerians moved to france because former colony and close.
God i love gay porn. almost as much as i love oprah.
and then Pumpkin takes hours to post comments where people criticize him. damn [redacted by pp, july 7, 2021]
Puppy there’s something wrong with this blog post. It won’t let me post anything.
It’s called being blocked
Wtf you banned me? What’s the reason?
You had a temporary ban for sexual harassment
does the fake pill personality believe this article?
https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/aristocrat-uk-britain-families-double-wealth-empire-exclusive-study-316017
of course the world is alot richer so the nobility is relatively poorer i assume. in the 19th c, the british aristocracy were the richest gorup of people on the planet.
the british aristocracy is also long lived.
the problem with being tall and robust is it usually means a shorter life. maybe it doesn’t need to with good breeding. max smeling and the duke of eninburgh lived to 99. today they’d not be so big. but in their time they were quite big.
“Sexual harassment” is a bs concept. The idea is that “unwanted” sexual contact is bad. But how am I supposed to know whether or not it’s “unwanted” beforehand? The only way I can tell is by performing the action and evaluating the response. It’s like jobs where you have to have experience on that job before you can apply.
Resist tendies and work out to get lean and your sexual market value will skyrocket, champ. If you build it, they will cum. Or you can use your IQ to make bank and betabux
And hence I have completely abandoned the search for a girlfriend
Most interesting line was right at the end of that article: “Separate research last year confirmed that just under a third of all land in England and Wales is owned by members of the aristocracy.”
And this is actually an underestimate as a lot of the land in England is likely held by offshore legal vehicles and so on that basically trace back to the landed gentry. Yeah the aristocracy is alive and well in the UK thanks to the Bank of England.
peepee said, “some women like short muscular men.”
why would she think this?
the jersey shore?
or because peepee likes short muscular men, because she hereself is a midget like dealwithherpes.
exactly.
european aristocrats are and have been distinguished by their height.
the “have been” part can be explained by better nutrition or no stunting diseases or whatever.
the “are” part can’t be explained this way.
no people on earth are angrier than black lesbians.
peepee is an example.
decent people don’t talk about the people they’re fucking peepee. nassim taleb is an example. is he gay?
If you ever had a girlfriend you would have referenced her in at least one of the thousands of personal anecdotes you’ve told over the last seven years. You’re a sexually repressed homophobic homosexual.
of course organzised religion is extremely gay.
milo: “i’m surprised everyone isn’t gay in america.”
LGBTQlmnop has gone from tolerated to PROMOTED. peepee is right about this. but the reason for it is more than just lowering birth rates among the secular, whites and asians. it’s just part of a general impulse to destroy civilization which isn’t controlled.[redacted by pp, 2021-07-08]
Its not about reducing birth rates at all. What kind of autistic theory is that? Nobody decides to have or not have a baby based on the amount of gays on tv. Its about being as socially liberal as possible to suit the general wishes of our rulers.
But people do decide to embrace their gayness when they see it mainstreamed, instead of becoming closeted breeders.
Meanwhile the media promoted hip-hop encourages non-whites like Loaded to overbreed to the point where he’s try to bang my readers.
im not gay Pumpkin and dont even think ive ever considered being gay. im actually a tad bit homophobic if anything.
That’s my point. Elites use rap music to brainwashes non-whites like you to be homophobic breeders but use universities, HBO, netflix & daytime talk shows to brainwash whites into embracing their gayness & not breeding. I have no proof of this, but wouldn’t surprise me.
I recently saw three different commercials depicting biracial couples where the females were black. You rarely see such couples in the wild. Love is love, but the agenda is obvious. Casting directors (or their bosses) know what they’re doing, and it’s not being open-minded. Crazy Rich Asians had to get a hapa to play the lead man because they knew having a full-on Asian in a romantic movie would result in a box office bomb. You have to play the long game with this social engineering, but I don’t know if any amount of conditioning will make the majority of Western women wet for Asians, whereas men can be conditioned to find anything attractive.
I feel that white women are shamed into becoming professionals instead of homemakers on the pretext of wanting to help them self-actualize and combat the patriarchy when really they just want to further reduce white birthrates. It’s also a good way to get more people paying to go to college than there ought to be.
Puppy youre totally wrong. Paul is closer to the truth. Promoting gays maybe results in a 0.1% reduction in births and I’m being wildly optimistic there. The real aim of promoting gays and blacks and other wildlife is to promote an extremely socially liberal environment in very harsh contrast to the socially conservative environment the elites desire in their homeland in Israel. Read Culture of Critique. Jews want loose women and tolerant people in their adopted homelands and their own women to be nuns at home.
The real aim of promoting gays and blacks and other wildlife is to promote an extremely socially liberal environment in very harsh contrast to the socially conservative environment the elites desire in their homeland in Israel.
And what would be the point of that?
Basically you’re saying the same thing I’m saying but without connecting the dots.
It’s like I’m saying the point of food is to eat and you’re saying, “no, the point of food is to have dinner”
Promoting gays maybe results in a 0.1% reduction in births and I’m being wildly optimistic there
It is much more than 0.1%. First it takes several percent of the population that would have become closeted breeders and turns them into openly-gay non-breeders. These non-breeders than inspire even straight couples to not breed “look how much disposable income the gays have without kids!”.
It also robs marriage of its status as a symbol of moral virtue, fertility and sexual normality causing folks to seek esteem elsewhere
“Elites use rap music to brainwashes non-whites like you to be homophobic breeders but use universities, HBO, netflix & daytime talk shows to brainwash whites into embracing their gayness & not breeding.”
That’s pretty based for a guy who supports reparations 🙂
its not based its very contradictory and has no real substance to it since how do you support reparations and go against the only way blacks are making real money which is entertainment?
but religion and monasticism didn’t used to be so gay.
peepee shows her brainwashing by using the phrase “embrace their gayness”, as if it was only social oprobrium that stopped such an embrace.
the very high IQ president of iran was laughed at when he said, “we do not have gays like you have in your country.”
this is ideology and the liberal version of hbd.
like when bill maher said, “jesus never had a girlfriend and he liked to hang out with 12 guys…”
mugabe must say again. everyone except mugabe and a few others are prisoners of their place and time and its ideology.
there’s no way to come to anything like certainty regarding why people did what they did even 100 years ago. let alone a thousand years ago or more.
STOP JUDGING THE DEAD LIKE THEY WERE IDIOTS AND “BIGOTS” AND CLOSET FAGS/PERVS.
Jesus was well-known for his success with the ladies. He was hung like this *spreads arms out*
Teffec, I think he played for the other team, since he was *nailed*.
Pumpkin why wont you let love flourish! in this day and age high IQ people must breed with high IQ people to preserve the status quo.
i love vegan and she loves me (possibly). vegan if pumpkin doesnt feel comfortable arranging this then [redacted by pp, 2021-07-08]
Vegan is a male you idiot. Even then it wouldn’t surprise me if you’d want to go ahead based on how much of a loser you are with women.
Pill if youre the Asian guy who comments under the name Philosopher with the old profile pic you had of yourself youre extremely unattractive nd very low SMV for all women.
no women likes asian men unless it is a fetish and its the rarest fetish out there tbh.
pill’s not Asian. Possibly South Asian, but definitely Caucasian.
okay but the black and lgbtq community are very inseparable. overall i agree with you but theres a distinction between promoting homosexuality and telling people to embrace an open-minded lifestyle.
actually i dunno i think youre definitely right but its done in a covert way and open-mindedness is something whites have already embraced for centuries now so why stop brainwashing them even further.
See even loaded gets it.
truthfully i dont understand a single thing you write Pill. youre speaking in another language to me if im being transparent enough.
Meghan Markle is about as black as I would personally go in terms of women. Anything darker and its an eyesore.
my bad last comment was a reply to the comment above that thread of comments.
Interesting to note that with closed borders because of the pandemic we’re seeing real wages rise for the first time in 30 years in the UK and US. In university I was actually taught that immigration increases wages for the natives LOL.