Because altruism is positively correlated with IQ, it was predictable that 150 IQ Ganzir was generous enough to order an article for $3.50. The topic he ordered was “spatial IQ deficits (relative to overall IQ) in people of normal or higher IQ”. but rather than writing one long article on such a heterogenous topic, I thought I would do a series of relatively brief articles. In this first part we will explore Turner’s Syndrome.
Wikipedia states:
Turner syndrome (TS), also known 45,X, or 45,X0, is a genetic condition in which a female is partly or completely missing an X chromosome.[2] Signs and symptoms vary among those affected.[1] Often, a short and webbed neck, low-set ears, low hairline at the back of the neck, short stature, and swollen hands and feet are seen at birth.[1] Typically, they develop menstrual periods and breasts only with hormone treatment, and are unable to have children without reproductive technology.[1]Heart defects, diabetes, and low thyroid hormone occur more frequently.[1] Most people with TS have normal intelligence, however many have troubles with spatial visualization that may be needed for mathematics.[1] Vision and hearing problems occur more often.[5]
Arthur Jensen stated:
Provided no spatial visualization tests are included in the IQ battery, the IQs of these women (and presumably their level of g) are normally distributed and virtually indistinguishable from that of the general population. Yet their performance on all tests that are highly loaded on the spatial-visualization factor is extremely low, typically borderline retarded, even in Turner’s syndrome women with verbal IQs above 130. It is as if their level of g is almost totally unreflected in their level of performance on spatial tasks.
If the typical Turner syndrome woman’s (verbal) IQ is normal (IQ 100 in the U.S.) but her spatial IQ is borderline (IQ 75), that’s a 25 point gap. Thus one might expect Turner syndrome women with (verbal) IQs of 130+ to have spatial IQs of 105+, but apparently their spatial IQs are about 75 too. This suggests a near-zero correlation between verbal and spatial among Turner syndrome women (which make wonder if g even exists in these women) or their distribution of spatial IQ is extremely narrow. Unfortunately Jensen didn’t cite his source.
Pumpkin Person 
Are you going to do one on Ashkenazim?
math 113
verbal 109
memory 96
spatial 93
I think I remember reading their spatial score had a only a low correlation with other scores as well.
Yes. I may have to devote more than one article in the series to them.
What is Math IQ? It’s definitely a composite of the main facets, but which specifically, and what subtests?
Thanks for the first article people. A few comments in the order they pop into my head.
Altruism – heh heh hehehehe. I feel like I’ve underpaid for a service, not given anything away. But mentions of my IQ are always welcome.
I definitely don’t have Turner syndrome lol but nice to know.
I’m pretty sure g still exists in these women. Analogy: if you take a bunch of people whose heights vary as in the normal population and amputate their right arms near the shoulder, they’ll all have a low right arm length. That wouldn’t negate the existence of height, nor the presumable correlation between height and other anthropometric measurements.
“however many have troubles with spatial visualization that may be needed for mathematics.” This is exactly what I certainly have, but never got diagnosed with in school because nobody ever noticed. I didn’t notice until I started taking IQ tests which loaded heavily on spatial visualization, and later in Calculus 3, which relied heavily on spatial abstractions. And remember, my spatial IQ is STILL well above average, or at least my PRI is, so these women must have it that much harder.
And unfortunately the WAIS-IV lumps abstract reasoning tests that happen to use the visual medium (matrix reasoning) together with truly spatial tests (visual puzzles)
The factor structure of the WISC-IV is way better in my opinion
Amputating an arm and getting a genetic disease are 2 completely different types of intervention by God. Your analogy is terrible. I would say that it does make one question the concept of g, especially if you found other conditions that exist in humans with these sort of wild gaps in types of intelligence eg. autism where social IQ is non-existent vs a very good math IQ.
1. God doesn’t exist
2. Just because two things have different causes doesn’t imply that they won’t have similar effects, which they do in the context of this analogy
3. If it makes you question the concept of g, either you don’t understand the analogy or aren’t thinking very hard
^Wrong on all three points.
Getting amputated or hit in the hit with a sledgehammer doesn’t prove g exists or doesn’t exist. Correct on that.
But being born with a genetic condition like autism, tay sachs or in this case Turner syndrome will reveal a lot more about the nature of g, at least if you believe it has something to do with genetics.
And God or It exists. But not in the way most people think of It.
How can you not understand this
God
God very much exists. Which God, however, is the question.
“God very much exists”
What’s the argument for this claim?
pepe*, not people lol
Looking at the new alienware pc and it comes in at about €5000 in the configuration I want. Is €5000 considered a lot for a pc? I remember when I got my first computer. I think it was a packard bell and at the time it cost the equivalent of what €5000 is now. I always think inflation is a very theoretical thing to consider so I try to keep it as anecdotal as possible for it to mean something to me.
Is robert permanently banned now?
No. He’s probably boycotting me when he saw all the money I’ve made from him seeing my adds. $1000 is big money in big foot country.
I hope it’s not because of some alco shit like cirrhosis.
Let’s hope not.
So I got a packard bell, then a fujitsu, then an acer and now I have a custom built rig. The computer hardware industry never seems to get investors pulses racing as much as software when I imagine designing and creating a computer requires a lot more IQ than coding software….but I could be wrong about this.
Lion of the blog seems to have semi retired from blogging. Its a pity cos i like trolling him.
Whats your stance on transgenderism puppy?
I think a lot of kids will grow out of it so parents & doctors are very reckless to give surgery or hormones to anyone under 21 to 25.
I also think it blurs the line between men & women which is a terrible thing.
But they should be treated with dignity
Hahahah. What a pretentious [redacted by pp, feb 19, 2021] you are Pumpkin.
Yeah. I can’t imagine the confusing hellscape a 8-year-old dude has to live in when his parents are convinced he’s a girl.
I think the evidence about whether gender reassignment ops actually work is pretty inconclusive.
Detractors like to point out that the people who undergo them are 10-20x more likely to commit suicide, but I’ve yet to see them compare postop trannies to a gender dysphoric control who hasn’t had anything done to them.
Does anyone know of any studies that look at this?
No but Megan Kelley has a great podcast & she discussed this topic in general with a genetic superior who left academia because it had become too woke to do proper research:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dr-debra-soh-on-gender-femininity-dangers-anti-science/id1532976305?i=1000500789360
I can accept gender reassignment when it’s portrayed as a treatment for a mental illness, as it is. When belligerent activists promote it under the meaningless term “identity” and respond to even the slightest and most well-intentioned constructive criticism with hostility, not so much.
This subject is too nuanced for me to comprehensively express my feelings about it in a single comment, but if anyone wants to know what I think about specific aspects of this issue, then ask.
By age 13 they should know sex differences and self-aware enough to know something is wrong. They have reached the stage of Formal operational (abstract thought) 8-year-olds just don’t have.
I’ll verbally palliate trans individuals by using their preferred pronouns, but for all intents and purposes, I see them as disturbed members of the sex they were “assigned.” I think most people feel the same, but there’s a fair amount of pretentious bitches out there who will call a straight man a bigot if he wouldn’t sleep with a self-identified female who was born with a cock..
Let’s reel it in, folks. We don’t need to let guys beat the shit out of women in combat sports to help a few people cope with their dysphoria. This is baby stuff.
OK I find this opinion very problematic. I don’t have a position on the age issue, but how does transgenderism blur those lines? Non-binarism, genderfluidity, maybe, but trans men and women follow the gender polarity. Unless you believe gender is dependent on biological sex. Also, even if it does blur the lines, why is that bad? If anything, non-black-and-white thinking improves creativity, whether you are trans or are just aware of trans people’s existence. The only bad thing I can think of is potential “paperwork” (new laws, documents etc).
Calling it “transgenderism” pretty well tells us what your stance is lol
It’s amazing how much anxiety can impair social IQ.
I’ve had pretty severe anxiety ever since I was a teenager, and lately I’ve finally been experiencing some major reductions in symptoms. It’s a fucking revelation every time I get relief.
Maybe it all goes back to being fat for a few years in middle school.
P, much has been said as to the worth (and worthlessness) of high-range “power” tests. I was wondering if you might have any insights in this regard, something significant which, to your knowledge, hasn’t, as yet, been expressed. My renewed interest can be stated thus: Granting that one is suitably rigorous in adhering to test guidelines, what are the real-world implications of an exceptional score (say, 170 – 190) on tests of the Mega’s ilk? If you’re drawing a blank, but consider the matter worthy of a bit of research and reflection, my “altruism” compensates for services rendered 8O). Of course, if some digging around (and within) is needed, but the thought holds little appeal, no worries; I wouldn’t describe my interest as “riveting”. Thanks, P.
My original plan was to auction off another article topic but I think I’ll revise that.
If you wish to order a series of brief articles on that topic just email me & I’ll send you a paypal invoice for $3.50 USD
That’s really all it would be worth because there’s not much research on that topic but I could discuss whatever I can find
One further thought/consideration: if you feel that the subject would be of interest to a sizeable segment of your audience, I’ll place the order. If not, I won’t.
It would probably be more interesting to them than the majority of stuff I post about.
What can I get for $4.20, $13.77, $14.88 or $694.20
$13.37*
E-mail sent.
PP,
You take caffeine pills dont you? Read this.
https://bgr.com/2021/02/19/coffee-side-effects-on-body-brain-structure-study/
[redacted by pp, feb 20, 2021]
The problem in the United States and why it isn’t more like Canada and Europe is that the racial composition of the underclass in America has always been a different racial composition to its elites.
It’s not just the ethnic difference between the elites and the underclass, but the difference between the underclass and the middle class allows the elites to play divide and conquer more efficiently than they can in mono-ethnic countries.
Im a big believer in modern monetary theory. I think poverty could be ended today if our elites really wanted to get rid of it. And you wouldn’t need to seize the wealth of the rich to do it (and thus causing a civil war or army coup). All it would take is the central bank governor to incentivise actors within the economy to basically seignorage benefits to the poor by printing money and handing it to them.
I wouldn’t go wild though. There probably is a limit to how much you can print without causing inflation.
And on the topic of inflation, the way I learned about it in college was totally and utterly wrong. It doesn’t come from unions demanding more money like the cuck bullshit I was force fed.
If Ashkenazim were selected for Verbal IQ why then do they not also have higher spatial IQ? Since the two are usually strongly positively correlated, then surely selection pressure on one would result in indirect selection pressure on the other?
I’ve wondered the same. It’s an interesting question. Maybe a minor example of the cognitive tradeoff hypothesis, as proposed regarding the excellent spatial working memory of chimpanzees?
Yeah the relationship between different aspects of cognition might be explained by neurology or overall physiology of the mind. It is a good idea to note that many facets of cognition overlap in the brain and thus give result to the particularities for why intelligence would occur the way it does.
Despite humans being good at a relative amount of things in terms of brainpower we still struggle with our understanding of a lot of things and some forms of cognition that we have no idea about are completely absent. That is a phenomenon that should frighten those who exist in this world.
Perhaps Ashkenazim have genetic variants that increase verbal/quantitative at the cost of spatial. That would explain the supposedly lower correlation between IQ and spatial in Ashkenazim.
Pumpkin, to what degree do you think the Ashkenazi advantage over other Europeans is mostly because of narrow verbal and quant factors rather than the g-factor and would that have any interesting implications if so?
What skills are unrelated to either of those narrow factors? Sports? Dancing? Music except for songwriting? Is reading musical notes verbal at all?
Chess seems like it would be spatial, but is actually more quantitative: https://twitter.com/TelcoDavid/status/1464368958635712525/photo/1
The only interesting implication is Jews are virtually the only race to have evolved their current IQ level after the emergence of agriculture and certainly civilization, which makes me wonder how well they would do if civilization crumbles. This might even be one of the causes of anti-Semitism. People find it parasitic how great Jews are at benefitting off civilizations that they played no role in creating.
Chess seems like it would be visuospatial*
For centuries in medieval Europe, Ashkenazim were pigeonholed into money-lending, hence their selection for faculties conducive to success in that trade. They literally evolved to be financial parasites.
@ Some Guy
This is gonna sound crazy, but I think I actually participated in that study you linked or a very similar one by a nearby research group.
@Ganzir
Very rude of you to disprove my intuition like that.
I participated in a study at the same research institution that paper is from. They paid me some tiny amount of money – I think $20 – to listen to and repeat Chinese syllables, and take a rhythm test. Apparently they were studying the connection between language learning and music learning, or something analogous. This was on September 11, 2019. I know that because I remember remarking to someone conducting the experiment that 9/11 was old enough to vote.
I think that there are 2 fundamental types of intelligence as opposed to one G. And that while they are usually co-selected to maintain a balance near the population average, they don’t necessarily need to be selected that way. So occasionally you can end up with skewed results. Because they are normally co-selected they give the impression of one G. So even if G isn’t really there is will usually be a good approximation for population averages.
Then again balance is based on the white average and not some measurement unit. Like what if someone defined a unit of intelligence much like meter is to distance and it turned out that a verbal of 100 had more of it than a non-verbal of 100 or even the other way around. It may turn out that no population is absolutely balanced in that sense.
g not G :-). It’s also supposed to always be italicized but I don’t expect commenters to do that much work.
Thanks, and yeah, I don’t do that much work. However just to be sure in the rare case on me deciding to italicize it in the future, I’ll try a test to see if I know how to get it right [i]g[/i]
You have to use these brackets: > <
>g<
the first time you had the format right but wrong brackets. This time you have the brackets right but wrong format.
g
Let’s see if this works
one_more_time >[i]g[/i]g<[/i]
My previous comment combined 2 separate attempts of brackets into one, >[i]g[/i]<
since it was combined into two, here is the second one. [i]>g<[/i]
neither outside nor inside works? looks like i need to work other combos. since pp published my recent comments he’ll be around to publish these ones. [i>]g[</i]
[>i]g[/i<]
So inside parentheses brackets don’t work, outside parentheses brackets don’t work, neither do inner parentheses nor outer parentheses brackets. What is the correct arrangement?
g
b
g
of fuck you meant these brackets?
Is this a real case example of V-NV discrepancy? If I could square myself, I’d be a human equivalent of a chimp’s NV > V tier gap.
“Because altruism is positively correlated with IQ,”
??
I understand or perceive myself to understand what @Flamin is saying. He is trying to elaborate on the perspective that many facets exist and that there correlations between subgroups of intelligence that create this overall impression that intelligence exists holistically.
This is why it is better to have a symmetric “g” than a skewed profile.
Reblogged this on Ganzir and commented:
Article 1 of a three-articles series which I commissioned from Pumpkin Person after winning an auction with a tremendous bet of tree fiddy ($3.50 USD).
Pingback: When spatial IQ is much lower than overall IQ (in people of normal or higher overall IQ) – Ganzir