The Flynn effect is generally assumed to be 3 points a decade, at least on the Wechsler administered in the U.S.. However my own research in getting a modern sample of young adults in 2008 to 2019 to take the 1937 Wechsler, found they only scored 7 points higher than 1937 norms, suggesting a gain of only 1 point per decade. Of course my sample size was only 17 people so maybe the results will change if I get more data, but then I discovered something interesting.
In the UK, the Raven Standard Progressive Matrices shows a Flynn effect of several points a decade in adults, but only about 1 point a decade in kids (the same as I found for adults on the Wechsler).

J Raven

J Raven
Richard Lynn once noted that the Raven Flynn effect is much larger in adults than in kids, a difference he attributed to schooling. Because the generation gaps in schooling are much larger in adults than in kids, schooling contributes to the adult Raven Flynn effect but not the children one, with the latter being a genuine rise in intelligence caused by prenatal nutrition, while the former is mostly spurious.
How does schooling affect a test as culture reduced as the Raven? Lynn argued that it was a disguised a math test that required addition, subtraction and distribution. I don’t buy it. The Flynn effect is supposed to be a fluid test so by definition it shouldn’t require much knowledge. Also, if the adult Raven Flynn effect were driven by learning arithmetic, why didn’t my research find an adult Flynn effect on the Wechsler Arithmetic subtest (in fact I found a negative Flynn effect on that subtest).
Instead I suspect schooling’s impact on the Raven is motivational, not cognitive. Because the Raven is not a fun like the subtests on the original Wechsler, only those who stay in school tend to have the confidence, interest and intellectual discipline to try their best. Those who drop out of school early (specifically the Roma in Serbia) complained that the test was giving them a headache.
Years ago I administered a version of the Raven to a woman in a bar who credited the test with her then passing her exam to attend college (because the Raven made her focus). I also once administered the WAIS-III Matrix Reasoning test (a Raven rip-off added to newer versions of the Wechsler) to a male relative, but he hurried through each item and scored the equivalent of IQ 120. When a female relative scored 135 he demanded to take the test again. This time he agonized over each item, studying the patterns for many minutes, and clocked in at 130.
So Victorian adults would have probably scored around IQ 65 on the Raven, but as kids they probably would have scored around 90. The IQ 90 should be considered a valid measure of their intelligence and makes perfect sense because as Jensen noted, the real component of the Flynn effect is likely caused by the 20th century rise in brain size and predictable from the brain size-IQ correlation. Don’t know the average brain size of Victorians but they were 1.68 SD shorter (11 cm). Assuming their brains were 1.68 SD smaller, and assuming IQ and brain size correlate at least 0.32, we should expect them to have been about 0.32(1.68 SD) = 8 IQ points less intelligent.
Richard Lynn also noted that the Flynn effect being larger on Wechsler Performance IQ than Wechsler verbal IQ is consistent with the nutrition theory because a study of identical twins found that the one born with a smaller head (presumably because of prenatal malnutrition) scored lower on the Wechsler at age 15, but only on the Performance subtests. But this was before the Wechsler added the Raven rip-off on which the malnourished twins would have likely showed some IQ impairment, but not as much as found on hard-core Performance tests. The Raven functions more like a measure of Wechsler full-scale IQ because you can either see the solution (Performance IQ) or talk your way to it logically (Verbal IQ).
1. pepe, would it be possible for you to administer the 1937 Wechsler to me?
2. Note how the raw score increase from 1938 to 1979 is about twice as large between the 5th %iles as between the 95th %iles. This is consistent with the nutritional explanation if we combine it with the obvious corollary that low scorers would likely belong primarily to the lower classes, who would on average have been both genetically duller and more severely malnourished than people from higher classes.
3. “Also, if the adult Raven Flynn effect were driven by learning arithmetic, why didn’t my research find an adult Flynn effect on the Wechsler Arithmetic subtest (in fact I found a negative Flynn effect on that subtest).” I can totally buy this. I’m frequently amazed by how badly most people struggle with basic numeracy. I don’t mean advanced mathematics or even pre-algebra, but just basic arithmetic and geometry which are essential to solving simple adaptive functioning problems.
4. “Those who drop out of school early (specifically the Roma in Serbia) complained that the test was giving them a headache.” From the perspective of population genetics, it’s almost as though centuries intertwined with a retrograde culture that offers divine sanction to stealing, scamming, and living on handouts hasn’t provided selection pressure for higher intelligence. What’s sad is that the occasional gypsy who isn’t genetically moronic will have to escape that crab bucket if they want to improve their lot in life.
5. “When a female relative scored 135 he demanded to take the test again.” Sorry, you lost me here; towards which direction on the gender axis did their transition vector point?
1. If you get vaccinated & come to Canada I might be able to arrange for you to take it.
5. lol. The “he” referred to the male relative who scored 120 (the first time); not the female one who scored 135. Either I expressed myself poorly or you have the same communication disability mug of pee has
2. Could be because ceiling bumping. In theory nutritional gains over time should affect the lower end more but if you look at height as an analogy, the upper end increased just as much as the lower end. Prenatal nutrition seems to be the great equalizer. Don’t matter if you’re homeless or royalty; we’re all equal in the womb. People will say that’s the dumbest thing they’ve ever heard but to quote rushton “if that’s what the data shows, then that’s what the data shows”
1. Zoom call?
5. Lol I fucked up there
80% of the performance scale could not be given by zoom because you have to manipulate physical objects
O
Is the US/Canada border even open atm?
I may be the most dark triad person here. My profile pic screams dark triad. Everyone here is too nice.
Nah LOADED. you look like someone who’d get KO’d in the hood…
Well is anyone here from the hood? Nope so im guessing thats not really an issue for me is it?
I know that my IQ is lower than it should be.
Flynn effect based on prenatal malnourishment and schooling makes sense but also poverty and fighting and overtaxed mental tasks.
Doing mental work I now get headaches. I pushed myself too far and caused permanent damage.
—
An anxiety disorder resulting from prolonged exposure to stress, such as severe work-related stress or continual bullying, with symptoms similar to those of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) but without any specific trauma involving actual or threatened death or serious injury, as required for a diagnosis of PTSD.
Prolonged duress stress disorder – Oxford Reference
Sadly your problem is your INTELLIGENCE
I think I reached a bottleneck.
You are obsessed with what you don’t and despise what you can… think about it.
it hurts … alot
Prolonged duress stress disorder
Really good intro.
piecefully
Gun rights in America.
Loaded, who is the hunk in your pic? (aside from u, obvsly) What is he into? (aside from u obvsly)
Random guy I met at Comic-Con when I was 19. I dont know him aside from that encounter and he has no relevance to my life other than being a great person to put in a profile pic.
This song is so melodic and nice…
Michael Jacksons best song?
Bad. I think
Here’s something that might function similarly to the PATMA: https://www.nnchallenge.org.uk/
I scored 20/20 easily, and I’d be unpleasantly surprised if anyone here failed to get a perfect or near-perfect score on this.
This is evil, Ganzir. I shouldn’t try it cause I can only feel bad about myself or just “meh, whatever.” What am I saying, I can’t resist. Expect to be unpleasantly surprised.
It was not a fun test and I didn’t even get a perfect score. I got a question wrong, but it was more about being observant.
Pumpkin if you dont post my other rap songs at least post this one. This one is for Vegan fr fr.
Intelligence actually is not a contest.
IQists are like miss beauties
Both incommensurable losers.
No judgment question: do you have dyscalculia?
I assume it’s being addressed to me? No, and I practice mental arithmetic for 15 years now, though just multiplications. I answered incorrectly the door question.
Near to
I have very lower spatial and short term memory intelligence. Seems my intelligence is unelevenly distributed. About maths i never was great but i really don’t know how bad i’m because i never properly study it. Seems younger ages i have been obsessed with my interests and play with my neverending imagination. I know that my level is minimally required on maths. Anyway it doesn’t mean i’m 100% self interest criticizing IQ tests even self interest is one factor. All my observations are logical and sound-sense.
Take the PATMA. It’s only 10 questions long. The average American would probably get around 5 out of 10:
http://techsupport.pythonanywhere.com/
Although it flies directly in the face of overwhelming evidence and therefore implicitly contradicts my supposedly high level of numeracy, I refuse to believe that anyone capable of homeostasis and unassisted feeding can possibly score less than 8/10 on the PATMA
Thanks for this. Lots to think about. James
Glad you enjoyed it!
I read something that once you get above the 110 threshold, the flynn effect reverses- this was recorded in 2006.
That’s not the case in most studies
it isn’t? In the WAIS manual it reported that it was the case.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32322129/
this study suggests higher flynn effects for people in higher ability groups.
”Yet we still want people who are very good at math designing our bridges, airplanes, crypto, etc.”
IQists are instinctively agressive when their beloved IQ is “attacked”. Seems an indoctrination, specialty of dumb whitey. Seems any Idea a human being can have it’s predictable that we have a masse of white people specially among IQsmart usurpating the potential to construct pieces of given truth to conform with their feelings specially those who think they are above their instincts, lots of hbdearests and conservs too. All these discussions are so dumb… yes, we need convergently smart people and we need divergently smart people and what we never need is piece of shit sociopaths… everything is so easy and dumb whitey make it so dumbly difficult.. i know, it’s a human thing. For dumb humans It’s better the chaos, the unnecessary complexity or challenges, the problems, than the utopia and just a mirror of your time in front of you. But the whitey mostly wrong ideologies are the dominant forces even the progressive ones.
Mainstream scientists are going to have high IQs, but expecting them to recognize brilliant ideas is asking too much.
For someone w a high VIQ and spatial IQ, I SUCK at scrabble. I’m good at coming up with letter combos but I have a really hard time filtering out real words from gibberish. Probably because crazy.
But the situational awareness component of my spatial IQ is really high. I could’ve been a fighter pilot or stock car driver.
That girl I met was already dating someone, but was “thinking about going open.” GROSS!
I think she’ll be a good friend though.
Hey now, Austin, didn’t your kindergarten teacher ever educate you about the importance of sharing?
And tbh I think smashing a girl that someone else is also fucking is kinda hot
You say a lot of weird shit ganzir
You can’t handle the truth!
This is the younger PP
So cute!!
“How does schooling affect a test as culture reduced as the Raven? Lynn argued that it was a disguised a math test that required addition, subtraction and distribution.”
Can you provide a Lynn quote where says anything like this? I’ve never read anything to this effect from him. Ken Richardson has advanced this argument for 30 years.
See the bottom of page 278:
The conscript data is differentin so far as 18/19 yr olds have received more schooling at the later dates as a result of voluntarilyremaining in school and statutory increases in compulsory education. The increases in schoolingmay improve the cognitive skills required to do the Progressive Matrices. This test is sometimesdescribed as culture reduced or culture fair but the appearance of the test is deceptive. It consistslargely of arithmetical and geometrical progressions in design format.
On the next page, we have this:
“Oski and Honig (1978) found extensive iron deficiency in a group of 24 infants aged 9-26 months in New York. Half of them were given iron supplements and registered gains in mental and physical development as compared with the remaining half which served as the control groups.”
What the fuck?! They let the other 12 remain iron-deficient just so they could see how much stupider they turned out?!?! Shit like this is why people don’t scientists.
How else are they going to know if the supplement had an effect? Instead of criticizing them for not giving it to all 24, you should be praising them for giving it to half of them.
You don’t think our science should be ethical?
The study was ethical. It was MORE than ethical because had the study not been done, NONE of the babies would have got the supplement. Instead of thanking them for giving it 12 babies, Ganzir’s criticizing them for not giving it to all 24. No good deed goes unpunished.
I understand that to most people it’s better that 12 babies are well nourished instead of none, but what I’m curious of is whether you think it was ethical to ONLY feed 12 when you had the ability to feed 24.
Was the information gathered worth malnourishing 12 infants?
By that logic it’s unethical to spend resources on almost anything because it could have been used to help a baby. It’s unethical to buy a coffee because that money could have been used to help some baby. And the knowledge gained from that study will probably help a lot more than 12 babies.
We hold scientists to such absurdly high ethical standards when they’re already doing no more good than almost everyone.
But then people are not logical; they’re emotional. Because the scientists were studying all the babies, it offends people that they didn’t help all of them, because what kind of monster could see the suffering and not help. So even though the scientists helped 12 babies and did nothing to harm the other 12, their behaviour would offend many.
I do think that is unethical. There should not be homeless people when there exists empty homes.
If we take this type of question case by case, I don’t think what I’m asking of the scientists is that absurd. You’re exaggerating heavily.
What was gleaned from this study that was worth more than the needs of 12 infants?
It’s fine that you think they should have helped more than just the 12 babies in the treatment group, but why help the 12 in the control group? Why not just increase the treatment group to 24; that way you help just as many babies AND you get the info (even better info since the treatment group now has more statistical power)
But because it’s emotionally distasteful to not help every baby they’re studying you view it as unethical. Classic example of emotion trumping logic.
What is illogical about not nutritionally starving babies?
I’ll ask again what information was more valuable than the needs of 12 infants?
How did the ends justify the means? You’re mistaking my argument and I don’t think you realize what I’m asking you. Sacrifices are necessary for the pursuit of knowledge. I just don’t think this sacrifice was worth it.
But the point is they didn’t sacrifice anyone. The babies in the control group were going to be malnourished whether the scientists studied them or not.
Don’t trust*
I’m so grateful that 315,000 people have died from COVID. It could have been 630,000.
If they had given the supplement to the control group it would no longer be a control group. If they did it anyway you could just as easily criticize them for only giving it to babies in the study and not to every baby in town.
Although I should say that the fault is systemic, not just with the scientists who performed that study, as there’s no excuse for child malnutrition, especially in a developed country.
Thank you!
This is why libertarianism is retarded.
Don’t get it twisted I’ve argued before that morality can sometimes get in the way of major scientific breakthroughs, but what was actually discovered in this study was not important enough to justify the means.
Without a control group, there’s no study. Without the study, no one gets any supplements.
Science without ethics is nazism if with the swastika flag or not.
If with animais or humans.
What exactly is objectionable about that paragraph? Sure it’s “supposed to be” “culture-fair” (whatever that means) but that doesn’t mean it is. Richardson’s 2002 paper discusses reasons why the Raven is the most enculturated test of all.
Find the logical pattern is more cultural than vocabulary??
https://paideia-eu.org/
two proofs that the people who make IQ tests have low IQs.
1. they think that because a test appears to be culture fair to them, it is.
2. the most g-loaded tests are the most culturally loaded. so if your bidness be like tessin’ IQ ‘n’ sheeeit, den culture fair tests suck. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-heritability-of-intelligence-not-what-you-think/
I already responded to that six times. Everyday is Groundhog Day when you have dementia.
and the decade+ reliability of IQ tests has very little evidence one way or the other.
^^Groundhog Day
Ganzir heres one for you….real FLORIDA shit.
Pumpkin, in one study I read that for higher ability groups, the Flynn effect gains are much lower than for average. So, if you gain .3 points per year, for higher ability groups, they only get .1 points per year.
Can you link me some studies you like regarding this topic?
Uou
https://mobile.twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1339968321077334027
pumpkin, is there any sort of new data out about the underestimate of bilingual IQs? Also, what does the research say about the verbal IQs of poorer white folks? Are they also lower than the perfomrance IQs?
I’m going to do an article on cross-cultural verbal testing although I don’t have any answers. Poor whites probably score lower on verbal
Because if that’s the case, I wonder what part of Hispanics lower VIQ would just be poverty. However, more educated Hispanics’verbal iq and nonverbal iq as education increases also becomes equal, so there would have to be a discrepancy there. Also, I can’t seem to find any comparing monolingual Hispanics to bilingual Hispanics although I suspect there’d be a difference there.
RR is right. He is very intelligent.
RR can be right. But someone who is easily indoctrinated…
Expect him asking me
What is indoctrination
What is RR
Im starting to think youre autistic santo.
That’s just your paranoia. Vou think everyone smarter than you is a version of bill gates.
Maybe i mistake the
Can
For
May be
I wanted to say
“RR cannot be wrong about everything, right??”
I’m borderline aspie anyway
RETARD
#WHITETRASH
https://www.news24.com/news24/world/news/brazils-bolsonaro-warns-virus-vaccine-can-turn-people-into-crocodiles-20201218
this picture reminds me of peepee.

Does your family know you post their pictures online?
The guy in the Gun Rights in America Pt. 2 video is Nigerian. Nigerians actually perform better academically compared to IQ than any group of people I have an intellectual understanding of.
They achieve so much due to working harder and not necessarily smarter. Makes you think about how some groups maintain a hard work ethic and can achieve as much as a moderately work-driven racial group. This means that some minorities truly are the real deal if affirmative action gives them enough opportunities.
Love
The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air
pumpkin, are there any studies comparing monolingual hispanics and bilingual hispanics’ verbal IQs. I’m almost positive Vocabulary will be underestimated in bilinguals, because its clear that vocabulary size is degraded in bilinguals, but my questions is more about similarities.
RR wants to censor all hbd
https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1340388753135812614
answer: luck.
1. delaware is a small state, so not much competition.
2. the guy he beat was a GOP incumbent and No other Democrat wanted to run against Boggs…Biden’s campaign had little and was given no chance of winning…
delaware is 46th in population.
you see this same phenomenon with dick cheney.
no way cheney would’ve ever been heard of had he not been from the least populous state. he dropped out of yale or was kicked out. but winning an election in wyoming isn’t hard.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/20/women-rally-to-save-pakistans-taboo-busting-oprah-show
Puppy you must not understand what it means when the audience of a show is 99% female.
of course the only evidence i know of is the NYLSY which was still for people in their early 30s iirc…
so it may be the adage “talent will out” requires additional decades.
the great porno for the “GxE people” is…
(does rr have a better porno?)
in slow-mo one thing you notice is borzov’s much better coordination.
i had a dream last night that short legged michael johnson had concentrated on the 100m and run 9.47.
Pumpkin, at least in recent times I found the flynn effect for 110+ to be reversing, or increasing only slightly
i took my dog to a modeling agency in midtown and this is what happened…
Gun rights in America Pt 2
I’d be interested in seeing what you would come up with after trying to make an estimate of Elon Musk’s IQ.
Same.
Thanks for the suggestion. I don’t know enough about him to do a quality job but I could write a brief article.
Does VIQ have more to do with poverty or education? Because hispanics are poorer, they’d have lower verbal, however, the average Hispanic gets a high school education which is 13 years, in which for the average person VIQ and PIQ are the same.
I didn’t read the article but I heard the Flynn Effect is pretty much done. Supposedly the Flynn effect was only due to children maturing earlier. Since they usually use IQ’s at ~10 years old the children seemed to be getting smarter when they were actually just maturing faster.
No it’s even bigger in adults
I’d be very interested to see a historiometric estimate of John von Neumann’s Wechsler IQ. I hope you will consider doing it.
Don’t know much about him but could probably write a very brief article.
He was known for his ability to multiply 8-digit numbers in his head so I think >>>19 on Arithmetic is a given
And I know that the problems on WAIS Arithmetic are more complicated than just mental calculation