The following chart shows the results of the WISC-IV (UK version) given to several small samples of South African children (circa 2013):
Black Africa’s Wechsler full-scale IQ
Of the six demographic groups tested, the one most representative of black Africa would likely be disadvantaged black Xhosa speakers (DBXS) and these had an average full-scale IQ of 77.08 (UK norms).
However this number is likely an overestimate because the UK WISC-IV was nine years old at the time this study was published. Although I believe the Flynn effect is overestimated because of the kaufman effect and other methodological problems, Weiss et al., 2015 were able to sidestep these issues and show that at least from the 2000s to the 2010s, WISC-IV IQ increased by 0.31 points per year in the U.S.. Assuming UK norms became inflated at the same rate, DBXS have an adjusted IQ of 74.
Of course I realize the absurdity of using a sample of just 12 kids to represent all of black Africa, but it’s so rare to get a non-elite sample of black Africans taking a test as indepth as the Wechsler that I have little choice.
Black African Matrix IQ
Because the verbal subtests of the Wechsler require cultural knowledge that many black Africans have not been exposed to, people might think they would do better on a culture reduced test like the Raven Progressive Matrices. Richard Lynn however cited a series of studies showing black Africans did even worse on the Raven, averaging an IQ no better than 70.
However Wicherts et al,, 2009 accused Lynn of cherry-picking studies and argued that the true average Raven IQ of black Africa was 80. It is therefore interesting to note that on the matrix reasoning subtest of the WISC-IV, DBXS averaged an IQ equivalent of 83 (79 after adjusting for the Flynn effect).
Does this mean Wicherts et al. were right and Lynn was wrong? Probably not. The matrix reasoning subtest on the Wechsler has a test-retest reliability of around 0.66, while the Raven’s might be as high as 0.95. Taking the square root of these values tells us that matrix reasoning correlates 0.81 with true score while the Raven correlates 0.975.
What this means is that if the true score IQ of black Africans on this type of test is 31 points below the UK mean set at 100, they’ll score 31(0.975) = 30 points lower on the Raven, but only 31(0.81) = 25 points lower on the matrix reasoning subtest. The observed subtest score of 79 is not far from this prediction.
How would black Africans score on a truly culture reduced test?
The Raven is often described as a culture reduced test, however given the huge Flynn effect it has shown in some countries, many people are skeptical. One source of cultural bias might be exposure to columns and rows in school and media.
In my opinion, the most culture fair “verbal” subtest on the Wechsler is Digit Span and the most culture fair performance subtest is Block Design. Unlike Matrix reasoning, Block Design is a concrete task that is considered fun, and its fast pace makes it less dependent on culturally acquired values like persistence, cognitive confidence and intellectual discipline.
Thus, it’s interesting to note that after Flynn effect adjustments, DBXS averaged IQ 86 on Digit Span and IQ 80 on Block Design. Given the moderate correlation between these subtests, that works out to a composite IQ of about 80 which I take as a rough estimate for the real intelligence of black Africa.
Note, real intelligence should not be confused with genomic intelligence. Rather, real intelligence refers to a valid measure of the cognitive phenotype, but in the case of black Africans, the genotype is likely higher since even scores on the most culturally reduced tests can be depressed by sub-optimum nutrition and disease.
Pumpkin Person 
So 12 children from a disadvantaged sub-sample of Xhosas plus the fact that South Africa is also not that representative of Black Africa makes this data fairly useless for extrapolation IMO. Surely Becker’s data is much more reliable?
well the advantage of this study is it used the wechsler which contains certain subtests that are uniquely culture reduced.
Ah, that makes sense Pumpkin.
Which are reduced?
this blog is shit since peepee banned me.
Not really, PP just doesn’t like to post things on his blog anymore.
He should be doing an article a day and should at least take the time to allow peoples’ comments on here to flourish.
But no….it’s all politics here! Unfortunately, that’s why intelligent people never advance!
Or society never advances because of intelligent people!
peepee just made that up.
i remember james thompson claimed in a blog post that he couldn’t see how repeating numbers back could possibly be affected by culture or education or other environmental variables. and it’s the least g-loaded of the subtests. the most g-loaded and heritable and reliable tests are the most g loaded. so you have to give up on g or give up on the idea of culture reduced tests.
[redacted by pp, sept 28, 2019]
Pumpkin, what exactly does the Ravens Matrices measure?
it’s supposed to measure abstract fluid reasoning but I suspect people with lots of schooling having an unfair advantage in that they have the confidence, interest and discipline to sit down and concentrate on complex tasks.
“Culture-free” tests are impossible. All IQ tests are bound by culture. (See Michael Cole.) This paper has a comparison of the WISC III between UK and South African children. All subtests showed signs of bias, except the Raven. (Though other analyses have found bias and there is no CV for the Raven and items were chosen for inclusion of the test based on intuition and not any processing theory). In any case, these authors write:
If a West African Binet constructed a culture-free IQ test would it truly be culture-free? Is it possible for an IQ test to not be bound by culture or does all cognition take place in terms of human culture and we should therefore take a Vygotskian thought process here—like with Bronfenbrenner’s and Ceci’s bio-ecological model of human development?
“In conclusion, the findings from this study add to existing evidence that the majority of the subtests in the WAIS-III hold cross-cultural biases. These are most evident in tasks which tap crystallized, long-term learning, irrespective of whether the format is verbal or non-verbal. This challenges the view that visuo-spatial and non-verbal tests tend to be culturally fairer than verbal ones (Rosselli and Ardila, 2003)”
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.00297/full
You would be correct re columns and rows and the Raven, Richardson (2002) says the same. The Raven is most definitely biased and is intact the most enculturated test of all. In any case, I’ll go in depth more later.
I’m in the process of writing a pretty long exposition about culture and cognition and will publish it here when I’m done. The cross-cultural research here is interesting.
Sounds good
Someone stop him!!!
Here’s one of the many arguments I’ll be giving in my culture and cognition piece.
Block (1995) notes that “Blacks and Whites are to some extent separate cultural groups.” If they are different cultural groups, then they will—by definition—have differing cultures. Culture can and does affect psychology (see Prinz, 2014, Beyond Human Nature). If blacks and whites are” separate cultural groups” and if they have differing cultures and experiences by virtue of being cultural groups, then they will score differently on any test of ability (including IQ) as all tests of ability are culture-bound (see Michael Cole).
The cross-cultural results are clear: there is no such thing as a “culture-free test” and we can’t use one test with the norms, structure and items created in one culture to test the abilities of people in another culture due to the cultural biases in the tests.
“If our children were forced to take a test constructed by a West African Binet we might object that these Kpelle-derived items were unfairly biased toward Kpelle culture. … [So] tests of ability are inevitably cultural devices.” — Michael Cole
Culture is evolutionary stages of mental complexity based on increasing of logic understanding or pattern recognition. Afro descendent pops have a disproportionate of early human populations based on social and cognitive organization. Many hunter gatherers and first agriculturalists than euro descendents. IQ is a quantitative test for mental complexity, proxy for higher intelligence.
>Block (1995) notes that “Blacks and Whites are to some extent separate cultural groups.” If they are different cultural groups, then they will—by definition—have differing cultures. Culture can and does affect psychology (see Prinz, 2014, Beyond Human Nature). If blacks and whites are” separate cultural groups” and if they have differing cultures and experiences by virtue of being cultural groups, then they will score differently on any test of ability (including IQ) as all tests of ability are culture-bound (see Michael Cole).
did a hs dropout write this?
i’m serious.
it’s so stupid it’s actually hard to explain how stupid it is.
Elaborate. Where’s the fault in my writing?
todd is OBVIOUSLY projecting.
incredibly sad.
culture can mean anything rr, that’s the problem.
blacks and whites have very different cultures in many ways, yeah and not just incidentally, but because they’re black or white. no one serious denies this. but WHICH ways? that they do “to some extent” not the question: the question is whether their cultures are different in the specific ways that render the tests measurement variant.
you’re basically chaining weasel words.
but i agree culture-free tests are impossible. that’s just not a problem for most purposes.
“culture” is a dumber and harder word to operationalize than “intelligence”
especially wrt race
“culture can mean anything rr, that’s the problem.”
Values, beliefs, and behaviors shared by a group of people, transmitted through generations by language and other means of communications.
“the question is whether their cultures are different in the specific ways that render the tests measurement variant.”
Yes.
Click to access fagan-holland-2007.pdf
>Values, beliefs, and behaviors shared by a group of people, transmitted through generations by language and other means of communications.
That’s totally meaningless rr.
>http://bactra.org/sloth/fagan-holland-2007.pdf
tldr the specific points
“beliefs and behaviors and values” are shared to some extent by all groups capable of intercommunication ever
From a partial reading, it looks like Fagan & Holland are trying to disentangle “knowledge” and “information processing” as components of “intelligence” gleamed via iq studies. So their idea is that the races don’t vary in the latter but they do vary in the former, and the former is related to g (explaining Spearman’s hypothesis).
Is that more or less the point you’re trying to make rr?
“That’s totally meaningless rr.”
Why?
““beliefs and behaviors and values” are shared to some extent by all groups capable of intercommunication ever”
Certain ones are concentrated in different classes. Richardson (2002 https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0382/3398d781543cd0edcf51f181074f4c3ff35b.pdf) and Manstead (2018 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5901394/) have good reviews.
“So their idea is that the races don’t vary in the latter but they do vary in the former”
Here’s are the points:
The data support the view that cultural differences in the provision of information may account for racial differences in IQ. This conclusion is based on a sample of 925 participants (451 in the current study and 474 in the Fagan & Holland, 2002 study). The 925 participants include 620 White Americans and 305 African-Americans representative of the general US young adult population in terms of age and educational level (Fagan & Holland, 2002, Experiment 5).
The present data offer no empirical support for Jensen’s (1998) view that racial differences in IQ are due to differences in g. Our results do not stand alone. Helms-Lorenz, Van de Vijver, and Poortinga (2003), in a study of majority-group children and second-generation migrant children in the Netherlands, found that performance differences between majority and minority-group members were best predicted by a cultural factor rather than by a general cognitive factor.
The problem is most researchers believe a priori that all cultures have the same intelligence so any differences in test scores are assumed to be culture bias.
To me a test is culture fair if a random sample of adopted whites raised by Africans score the same as a random sample of whites raised by white Americans (adjusted for nutrition/disease)
I suspect a few rare tests to be culture fair by this definition, but not the raven
However no such study could be easily done so my theory is hard to falsify
The thing is, differences in correct number of items one gets correct could in fact show that it is biased towards different groups. And the study I cited showed evidence of cultural bias, even in those subtests one would assume would show the least cultural loading. There has been much cross-cultural research done in South Africa. The study I cited for example was on UK and South Africa children. Further note that, as Hilliard (2012) notes, differences in scores between two white South African groups—a difference of 15 points—was removed via test construction.
What does “score the same” mean here? Bypassing the bias of the Raven for now, putting the hardest Raven items in context had children score higher then the regular Raven items, and the new items had the same rules and structure as the Raven items. What’s that tell you?
What does “score the same” mean here? Bypassing the bias of the Raven for now, putting the hardest Raven items in context had children score higher then the regular Raven items, and the new items had the same rules and structure as the Raven items. What’s that tell you?
Interesting. Jensen once claimed schooling might affect raven scores by teaching kids to decontextualize. What’s your source for this raven anecdote?
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.2044-8279.1991.tb00969.x
R&R doesn’t understand what culture is…
RR, why would you assume that everything must be read or communicated from a “credible” individual to be deemed as being acceptable among the scientific community?
Do you not think that a layperson or any other individual can deduce scientific explanations for themselves and find answers for themselves and think for themselves? Or are all these concepts foreign to you?
I need evidence for specific claims.
Ok what if I want to talk about the environment then? Is that allowed?
“Note, real intelligence should not be confused with genomic intelligence. Rather, real intelligence refers to a valid measure of the cognitive phenotype, but in the case of black Africans, the genotype is likely higher since even scores on the most culturally reduced tests can be depressed by sub-optimum nutrition and disease.”
This is nonsense.
https://darwinianas.com/2019/09/24/gloria-a-darwin-nas-alturas/
Translator if you want
This song is about Forbes…a much talked about topic on here.
If you saw who the only dislike was, it was me.
They took my friend away.
Now read that if that was really true. How would you feel?
Jk. I guess I’m just a sacrifice like Jesus. Doesn’t matter, PP’s a Judas.
Nvm, PP, you ain’t a Judas. You’re a good guy who has advanced science, a virtuous deed indeed.
Cockcroft et al (2015) is a cross-cultural study of the WAIS on 349 UK undergrads and 107 black South African undergrads.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.00297/full
Other types of cross-cultural studies of this nature exist, eg Shuttleworth-Edwards’ work.
https://www.jewishpress.com/sections/health/twins-are-multiplying/2012/03/14/
Wow Joey
https://www.jewishpress.com/sections/health/twins-are-multiplying/2012/03/14/
Or….
Just so genetic confounding
Would be interesting to wonder how % of homossexuals who have a twin
A true eugenics must wipe out of the existence right countserf mind type…
Eugenics is not intrinsically bad. The problem is the untermenschens pretend to be wiser using it since Galton… poor white stupid male…
Please tell me what the countserf mind is. Not what they do, but who they and their parents are.
And how would you design a eugenics framework (which ones do you consider to have good qualities)?
I often get nervous when thinking about eugenics because there are so many people who are smart enough to thrive, adapt and act be chivalrous but that still seem like they dont have a soul or cant see the mysteries of reflection, some people dont MIND at all, so to speak. There also seems to be merit to the statement that “neural diversity” matters but:
The problem i have with eugenics is that it appears that different things are differently usefull and good depending on the times, but thats becuase i dont have a firm idea of morality and cant define my terms. So a sort of exponential amount of possibilites come up and i dont know how to sort them. So do you have a sense of morality? is it universal or objective, both? im getting interested in this becuase the intuition is somewhat there but i cant reach the light just yet, theres too many confounding thoughts being in the way.
Im interested in what you have to say becuase your intution sounds somewhat similiar to mine but you are older and more prolific and also more focused on these subjects (eugenics, utopianism, psychology, cultural anthropology, antropology morality/religion, aesthetics, the boundaries of empiricism, the use of personal anecdotes and biases, gender/sexuality, power dynamics and hbd). Also you live in Brazil which is somewhat foreign to me.
Biggest problems
Humans who are criminal and those who are excessively domesticated
Perfect eugenics is ponderated but efficient
Will eliminate troublesomes but will preserve human diversity
Since human civilization the biggest problem is the proliferation of humans who are not capable to be properly sane or rational and an elite who benefit from the very existence of these masses.
Civilization has been synonimous of en masse serfdom, parasitical excessively verticalized or hierarchized society. The evil dominating the servil. Both has been notoriously “conserfs ” just think about Homer Simpson and Mister Burns, the dynamics of the parasite and its cultivated prey.
Conservatism is for humankind a flyless bird. Humans with insufficient self awareness to be human thus wise.
Humanity stop to evolve equally with agriculture, civilization and serfdom .
Imagine a tree with parasitic plant sucking its vital forces?? That’s what conservative ideologies really means
When i say rational i’m not saying toughtful sociopaths as many people think. Rationality is the capacity to balance your own subectivity with non subjective truths (subjective truths are real personal reactiions which part of truth about given object is expressed, for example, the sense which the ant touch, interact and understand its world or the disgusting feeling individuals can have about given object, behavior or phenomenon. Science//philosophy is the perpassing of its element. Real philosophy is the preservation of individual needs based on the balance of universal justice) .
Excessive sexual dimorphism is unharmonious . It’s create mutual atomization between men and women just like or analogous to our recent rampant ideological polarization.
Based on macro human conjuncture, males on avg, perceive the world not conclusively by itself but with the lens of their competitive strong impetus. It’s result in conflicts within societies, in macho territorial disputes and atomize humanity from its true faith, be a perfect mirror of reality and forge for itself and for those non human friends an oasis, a true heaven , to hide from desolation of a world without mythological artfact.
Anyone here believe in nonlinear timelines or smart enough to understand one? I think 105 is the cutoff for understanding that stuff. So let’s see if anyone of you get it.
What do you mean by “nonlinear timelines”?
Can you elaborate more?
that defeats the whole purpose of my question, doesn’t it?
however, i will say this….nonlinear timelines may or may not refer to something where there are leaps and cutoffs in the actions that take place in the Universe, specifically in terms of the actions you consciously perceive.
Nothing in this Universe happens in sequential order, to partially answer the question. Meaning that events jump around from taking place in a non-linear fashion, covering the extent of time.
Now that I’ve answered some if not most of that question, the rest of it is for your mind to deduce and find out if it’s true or not. That’s the higher IQ component of all this.
Never mind I got it right after I posted the comment, like two seconds later. It’s basically someone’s ability to comprehend different events not in chronological order or something along those lines. That’s cool, that’s cool
Yup, very cool! I want to explore this notion of our reality so that I can achieve a better framework of how human life unfolds, basically.
Is it possible to extrapolate from cultural behaviour and achievements? Eg development of tools, buildings, farming (eg resource planning)?
It used to be but with political correctness, the backwardness of certain cultures is denied by academia
PP,
it’s not ”backwardness” because IS NOT a competition, like all human races disputing to see which is the best.. but, i partially agree about PC.
This is basically Kevin macdonalds point that puppy mentioned.
Or the failure to advance is due to the intervention of other cultures in the area.
Not only that but there’re a bunch of confounding variables, from resource availability to cooperation between peoples.
There are a handful variables that change why political correctness is not the only reason we can’t accurately judge a society’s worth using only their achievements at the moment.
Maybe one day!
Before humans ”learn” how to tame [and destroy] environments, they had been selected by environments. So, it’s not a matter of ”full conscious failure” when the reach never was clarified and also because no people choose to evolve to providence or long term thinking…
Histeria and Sociopathy from both left and right IS a WHITE stupidity stuff…
Incapacity to think beyond such binnary thinking mode, the most simplistic.
Whites, on avg, evolved to produce big civilizations, not to understand them.
Such an idiot. What other explanation can there be. The things you mention are temporal things or things proven not to matter for long term development.
Clarify what u mean, Pill?
if you can, I mean.
Pumpkin, since I have a 115-117 logic IQ (12-13 similarities, 14 matrix reasoning), would it make sense that I’d struggle in an AP computer science class?
You’d be fine. 50% of students get 4s and 5s on the exam.
https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/about-ap-scores/score-distributions
Caffeine Withdrawls, sorry to be a dick, but you have partial swatstikas all over your gravitar, hahahaha!
Also, IIRC, I think I had three 5s and three 4s.
Most surprisingly, I scored a 5 in both Biology BEFORE they changed the curriculum and a 5 in U.S. History, which I would say are the most challenging APs to take….seriously.
AP Macro or AP Micro is definitely harder
Micro definitely might be, squeezed out with a C at Bentley University, one of the premier business schools in the nation.
And before, I got an A- in community college in macro, which was definitely too easy.
I have two semesters left before I graduate, but I hate this fuckin’ shit city that I live in and might be planning a move to Dubai, actually.
Also, to be more particular, I scored three 5s and three 4s out of a total of a possible of nine tests I took.
I think there might’ve been another 5 or 4 I got but I dont remember.
huahahahahahahaha
https://scontent.fjdf2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70882363_2431462683618726_6042275221690384384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_eui2=AeEX5aFMzjwwUqPTpTUIig6SnH0tJrRjyG8Gluh_0u8KQlhQVsq0yuD8P-theYyYb08jKOeNmII48dglJ2qOKeb3MzLIPNnAuolp3W9_FePzGg&_nc_oc=AQl0Dvql2pdQCTgWJ19RdnnN6ZoK1twYi-LWXLUK5j5h9uZerTaiokr4WtpGDUP3vwc&_nc_ht=scontent.fjdf2-1.fna&oh=b707f715cbf0058d951f9f61ea9e7d63&oe=5E2F7A1E
Hey Pumpkin. In one of your other posts (probably on your other blog) you mentioned in a comment that the average IQ of medical school students is 123 or 124. How would that be the case if medical school is essentially the consumption of voluminous material without much critical thinking, or is the aforementioned contention a flawed one? (This is likely relevant to me since I am planning to attend medical school:)).
pumpkin, I am older than I seem. In the report, I received it said the variance in the subtests in verbal was high for my age. They should be about the same given my age.
If my verbal scores on the subtests are highly varied what could that mean?
Extremely primitive sub-humans from the reich are mocking Greta Thunberg because she’s aspie like Muggy… how stupid is it**
Are climate change denialists ok about environment destruction*
Greta Thunberg has an annoying voice. She’s only popular right now because her handlers want her to be popular. They’re only going with the times. She’s not doing much anyways. Who cares about it anyways? It’s not going to do anything of any substance at all. She needs to whine about it to the Chinese, to the Indians and to the Blacks who breed like rats.
How dare you, lol
After watching Gone with the Wind
”The Flynn effect, popularized by James Flynn, refers to the fact that IQ tests supposedly get easier with time.”
Newer the test = easiest
”Although by definition the average IQ of American or British (white) people is always 100, the older the IQ test, the easier it is to score 100.”
Older the test = easiest
I don’t understand [also] this part.
PP, what do you think, instead, use this ”Greenwich–Longitude” model, ”we” don’t use the ”Latitude” model* Quantifiyng accumulated general knowledges after school time**
What do you know or retrieve about all scholastic subjects, etc…
This possibly make the weaknesses of mean-model be strongly reduced [less my pragmatism about that english]
Blame the jews…
This post agrees with everything i think. me likey. But i think the flynn effect is non linear with development and time, so its true in my opinion, though i dont know the specifics.
Of course IQ is not a static feature of our environment and culture. As a matter of fact, IQ changes very rapidly, either going up or down. This is due to different generations having different prioritizations of what is intelligent and what is not.
Have you ever noticed that sometimes art thrives and other times technology does? This is a mirror of how civilization is formed and represents what expression of intelligence they wish to carry.
To get an accurate picture of what’s happening in terms of intelligence, you can’t really look at the historical picture. You can only look at now and compare apples with apples.
I think the specific problem that comes about is whether or not the system is fair to include all people and allow to compete equally and as effectively as one another.
I think the main thing now is that we live in a perfectly demonstrable capitalist society that lives to teach us that yes, races have discrepancies in achievement and this would reflect the results of IQ tests…
However, smart blacks do exist, dumb Asians exist, etc. Just like everything else is a spectrum in terms of how much a trait is expressed or lives within a population, so is intelligence. I
t’s all a matter of finding those who have crystallized talents that improve the world around us and allowing them to thrive. If we fail to do that, then the system eventually collapses.
If we stopped arguing about racial politics and the sorts, maybe we’d get somewhere as individuals and as a society.
I don’t think people understand this but most people, especially women, are just philosophical zombies. This is a reference to the fact that most women do not act as if they have no consequential purpose or effect on the things happening around them other than give men a purpose to do things.
However, the fundamental part of why they’re philosophical zombies is not that they fail to impact things but because they fail to absorb the interactions taking place around them, completely giving up on how to gain access to the present-time, making themselves irrelevant to the future or past.
If you look at women and women’s emotions, you find that most of their thoughts are future-based, their desires are past-based, and their emotions present-based. This creates irrationality and is a reason why women can’t be trusted in our society.
Sorry, that was meant to say “any” in the second sentence, not “no.”
wait, for the afrikaans, the verbal IQ subtests scaled scores added up are 26.09, for the PRI it’s 25.7 or something, but vci is greater than pri?