Commenter Gypsy recently sent me the following email:
I know it’s a little dumb to mention it again, especially after so much time has elapsed between convos about it, but I feel as though definitions of intelligence posed most commonly (Adaptability, problem solving, even potentially reasoning) lack an intuitive connection to an essential side of intelligence commonly ignored mainly because of our main practise for assessing intelligence: Problem POSING. We discover intelligence broadly by posing questions and assessing the ability of the candidate to deliver the correct answer, but the construction of a sophisticated plan is an essential and actually more used element of intelligence that is not immediately implied by the definitions we propose.
I know that problem proposition is implied by the definition, but the language doesn’t intuitively convey it and it is thus not immediately implied. I think the language used should be as intuitive as possible so as to immediately capture the essence of the thing itself all at once.
Thanks for reading,
Gypsy.
If I understand Gypsy’s email correctly, he seems to be saying that the inherent flaw in how we define and measure intelligence is that we only look at the ability to solve problems, when a crucial part of being smart is identifying the problem itself.
Of course I would argue that it’s not our intelligence that identifies the problem, but rather it’s our feelings. If we feel the slightest bit of discomfort, even if it’s something as trivial as an itch that needs to be scratched, it’s by definition a problem (since it’s bothering us), and our intelligence is just the brain’s problem solving computer that solves whatever problems our feelings identify.
Now we evolved to feel pleasure when we are engaging in behavior that enhances our genetic fitness (surviving, making money, making love, making friends) and feel pain when we are denied these achievements, and so we are generally motivated to use our intelligence to our genetic advantage, at least to some degree, or it couldn’t have evolved in the first place.
However because everyone’s incentive structure is unique, one man’s problem is another man’s solution, so an IQ test must DECIDE for us what the problem is, so everyone’s problem solving computer (IQ) can be tested by the same standard.
However where Gypsy makes a very good point (if I understand him) is that the problem solving IQ tests often demand is very one dimensional, while in the real life strategic situations Gypsy is interested in, we have problems within problems within problems.
So instead of the problem being clearly defined like it is on most IQ tests (how do I fit the puzzle pieces together to make an animal?) it could be something as complex as “how do I win a war?” This is such a complex problem that you have to break it down into lots of mini-problems, and solve them in the correct sequence, while at the same time, the problem is constantly changing because your enemy is adapting to each of your moves.
German military strategist Helmuth von Moltke famously stated ““No battle plan survives contact with the enemy.”
I actually don’t think IQ tests do a very good job at capturing this kind of dynamic interactive problem solving because all of the problems on IQ tests are static and simple enough to be solved in a few minutes. What is needed is not so much an IQ test, but an interactive IQ contest, where people compete in a cognitively demanding zero sum game where one person must outsmart the other.
I used to think chess was the ultimate test of intelligence, but its sensitivity to practice and teaching, and the fact that computers do better than people, dampened my enthusiasm.
What is needed is a version of chess that’s constantly changing, so you can’t practice it or study openings, endgames, and traps, you must constantly invent your own; because one day the board has 64 squares, the next day it has 225. One day each side has one queen, the next day each side has eight queens etc. Perhaps some genius could write a computer chess program where such changes would occur randomly, so whoever had the highest rating on this constantly changing version of chess, would be judged the smartest person.
But unfortunately no matter how much you altered the size of the chess board or the number of pieces, computers would probably still beat people, so what is needed is a strategy game that computers can’t outsmart us at, if it’s going to have credibility as a test of intelligence.
This is me sitting with a fellow African telling the jews I am a good man.
Is he doing the Dieudonne salute?
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&source=android-browser&biw=360&bih=278&ei=IzlxWfW0C8qCmQGO1or4Dg&q=dieudonne+salute&oq=dieudonne+salute&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3..0i22i30k1l2.5128.12211.0.12893.7.7.0.1.1.0.353.1990.0j1j2j4.7.0….0…1.1j4.64.mobile-gws-serp..0.7.1759…0j0i67k1.-DJOlSNlf4s#imgrc=vdICFSeUmdwAjM:
Cheap the link shows I use tmobile, so embarrassing 😭
*crap
Fucking autocorrect
Lol!!1
https://www.gatesfoundation.org/~/media/GFO/Annual-Letter-Images/2010/Annual-Letter201014.jpg?la=en
This is me telling my fellow Africans how to create a multi billion dollar company. It is wonderful these students.
This is me cylcing with Steve Ballmer. Unfortunately even though I made Steve my apprentice, he joined the Liberaltion of Africa Islamic Movement. Those people are filthy dogs!
they’re NOT riding a bicycle.
https://i2.wp.com/www.skepticalraptor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/scary-bill-gates-vaccines.jpg?resize=600%2C480&ssl=1
This is me vaccinating the children of Africa. We will save every child my friends. EVERY child.
I laughed a lot at this picture.
I was a bit of a rascal when I was younger friends I am sorry to say. Here I broke sharia and was caught trying to invade a house and subject the inhabitants to physical and sexual domination like my african brothers. Let me say, this life is not for everyone.
actually for reckless driving.
it’s funny how gates doesn’t look smart, but does look like a nerd.
He looks smart to me.
Lmao. Smart? On a mugshot? What is looking smart exactly? This face rather looks like it asks to be bullied.
He is uber nerd looking or “some extra mutation that make him look “funny” “.
Smart looking is narrowed and long face.
he looks like he has an extra chromosome.
Answer this riddle my friends: I have a 160 IQ. I am a billionaire. I spent 20 hours at a computer every day for 20 years. I have the personality of a 8 year old special needs child.
What am I?
autistic. this is why warren and i are such good friends.
autistic. this is why warren and i are such good friends.
And yet both men are 10,000 times more successful than you. Calling them autistic only proves that you got your ass kicked by two nerdy autistics.
and if i were…
1. more autistic AND
2. more interested in “success” or the sort of things that lead to “success”.
then i would be more “successful”.
what i mean by more autistic specifically is an obsession with one subject maintained over years and an inability to see though bullshit.
By failure Buffett means top 1% instead of top 1 in a 100 million.
And gates would have ruled the Stone Age. He’d be the guy who invented projectile weapons and figured out how to make fire thus monopolizing all the prehistoric resources
Autism as defined by actual psychologists does not generally make you successful in life. The vast majority are unemployed.
100% of psychologists are autistic peepee.
“psychology” should be called “autism studies”.
The people who are experts in people have the least insight into people.
#think like Mug of Pee
Supposedly autistic thinking is over-dependent on science to prove some thing that intuition may be good enough to prove by yourself. Autistic tend to have a erratic untrustworthy on intuition or instinct, it’s mean that they don’t know as most people usually do, when they are being self deceived by their own cognitive/psychological bias and when they aren’t but many them pretend to know. And when the problem is ideologically or socially driven autistics tend to behave just like a neurotypical, a subconscious believers. They, seems, on avg, can’t trust on their own guts to perceive some obvious and dangerous things for example innate racial (and other group) differences in temperament and intelligence. We know that because hive minded, many people namely liberals become more believers on racial equality paradigm. Or seems to be like that. Before liberals always exist but they weren’t organized or no have a dogmatic system of point of views/facts or not-so. Now they have and they started to behave as organized bees.
Indeed many psychologists are mentalista and not mechanicists. So they can be good to understand people in first person but difficulty to see them in third or fourth person. They can systemize a behavior of individual perspective but not in collective perspectives. Om other hand many people in psychology may be more hybrid between mentalist and mechanicist spectrum but jot wise enough to use this privileged psychological perspective in constructive ways in their jobs.
”and if i were…
1. more autistic AND
2. more interested in “success” or the sort of things that lead to “success”.
then i would be more “successful”.
what i mean by more autistic specifically is an obsession with one subject maintained over years and an inability to see though bullshit.”
This explain why you, as well Pill, don’t know what autism is or how autistics tend to be. Interestingly a lot of autistics, specially aspergers, share many of his point of views.
”more autistic AND more interested in ‘success’ ”
A lot of autistics are not really interested in something very social as ‘success’.
Often autistics and adherents tend to have more than one ”obsession” and in the end of day, those who are aficionados in some sports or whatever other stuff also tend to be interests in ”one subject”, even we know ”one subject” tend to have many intersections of other subjects. Yes, i believe many autistics, namely those on the lower functionality tend those who embodied more the populat stereotypes of this spectral condition: be really more interested in literally one subject.
Most of psychology is garbage outside of psychometrics and behavioral genetics. Not sure if that makes psychologists autistic, though.
More neurotypical you are more concerned about mundane success you will be… but some people here think it’s ”autistic”.
”Most of psychology is garbage outside of psychometrics and behavioral genetics.”
Most of psychology, in intrinsic way, is extremely important.
Important fractions of academic psychology, namely in its origins, is not garbage. The melanoma of psychology is when this discipline intersect with ”social sciences’. Social sicences has been proved cancerous to any department but other humanities departments tend to be specially vulnerable to this (((poison))).
Psychometrics = failled mathematicians that also fail to understand human psychology,
Behavioral genetics = failed geneticists who fail to understand behavior and namely, starting from semantic department. Example: so-called heritability, where 11 in 9 of them confuse with inheritability but try to deceive other people that they don’t.
when a ”psychometrician” or a ”behavioral-geneticist” [ on very avg] talk ”behavior X is HERITABLE” they want to say ”behavior x is INHERIT-ABLE”, while heritability is not the same than potential inheritance.
The concepts, most people can grasp. The major problem start when they apply it.
Heritability: phenotypical variation from pre-stablished or expected genotype [quite confuse sometimes, how to know what is expected genotype* it exist*].
What is the identical twin who are the primordial genotypical refference** Why*
Or, shared-traits are treated/considered as ”genotypical refference”*
Always remember that twins are not clones. Clones are exactly the same individual who was replicated but in ”different bodies” or in different existential perspectives. If identical twins tend to have very high inter-empathy/mirror-genes, imagine how significant would be when a clone see your original or the opposite, the original see its copy*
It’s just like if we have two Monalisa paintings, the first is original, the second was painted from this original but the painter wasn’t Da Vinci. Or, if we have two Monalisa paintings, the copy was directly copied via some advanced technology, it’s exactly the same, with all its features. Twins are often or characteristically imperfect-clones.
If i had a twin, he would not to be myself. If i had a clone, yes, he would be myself but in other body. [Maybe i’m partially or predominantly wrong]
Maybe some identical twins are more identical than others at the point to be near to be considered a clone, near but still not there.
Most of psychological approach have a moral basis, what is right, what is debatable and what is wrong. Nothing wrong about it, even if it is extremely important for us, social creatures.
The great problem is that this approach don’t start from very-ideal point of refference. For example, in the mind of many psychologists, extroversion is better than introversion, i mean, people who are more social and sympathetic are definitively perceived as superior or better than introverted people. Even it’s true in some aspects extroversion OR extroverted behavior is desirable, until recent period, psychology have overwhelmed celebrates extroversion against introversion.
This explain why we no have a opposite of depression, or if this exist it’s not constantly talked. [pathological euphoria, i have impression ADHD fits with this concept]
Hapiness is always good… even excessive hapiness, i know, there are psychologists who talk about it, but majority on the department tend not to talk and criticize in neutral ways this matter.
Psychological today explain or reflect very well why psychology is half normie, half scientific, and often confused with ideology.
Again, most people know, more or less, what intelligence is, but when they/often us, need apply this [or other] concepts, we tend to have ourselves as fundamental point of refference.
It’s not too bad we start from ourselves to analyse, describe and understand certain psychological/mentalistic phenomena [or other type], even because sometimes or often, our ”cognitive biases” will be more right than wrong, or even, deadly right. For example, the psycho-cognitive impulse of conservative people is to pay attention to the differences among groups than their similarities. It’s not totally wrong, just partially. In the same way it’s not totally wrong pay attention to the similarities, as libs tend to do. What is always right is complete your perception with both sides.
About autism, i don’t know but, many if not most of its behavioral features, not neurologically-problematic, can be found usually in lower intensity among ”neurotypicals” but has been treated as sympthoms.
http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/28/why-are-transgender-people-immune-to-optical-illusions/
Because they are one.
I can’t remember where I first read this (Jayman’s?) but there’s a mild overlap between schizophrenia and transgenderism…
oh wait, i found it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_chronometry#Mental_chronometry_and_cognitive_ability
Several studies have reported association between simple reaction time and intelligence of around (r=−.31), with a tendency for larger associations between choice reaction time and intelligence (r=−.49).
nothing said about it’s insensitivity to biography.
this is a “fact” peepee just made up.
Once again you show your complete scientific incompetence. It’s the COMBINATION of a DIVERSE battery of reaction time tests COMBINED with measures of reaction time variability that correlates 0.7+ with g.
just to prove for the 100th time that psychology is a pseudo-science.
Research has shown that reaction times may be improved by chewing gum: “The results showed that chewing gum was associated with greater alertness and a more positive mood. Reaction times were quicker in the gum condition, and this effect became bigger as the task became more difficult.”
ALLAHU AKBAR!
So? Whoever claimed intelligence was a 100% static trait?
So????
It means if something as basic as chewing gum improves reaction time, it means reaction time has no real world relevance. Anyway, I have a guest post in store that will talk actual recent neuroscience breakthroughs.
Pumpkin, please make afro stop guest posting. His words hurt my brain.
Brain? you ain’t got no brain.
Reaction time is measured in rest state as brain waves are measured in EEG. It’s just like analyze brain waves during or after a stressful situation. If reaction time correlates with IQ so it’s something isn’t?
https://chechar.wordpress.com/2017/07/16/beware-of-game-of-thrones/
I’ve noticed in video game storylines, women are often the ‘tough’ antiheroes and sidekicks.
Whoever said nerds don’t have social intelligence?
I didn’t say that.
My video games studio is making a remake of grand theft auto and the protoganist will be a 12 year old asian girl.
https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19/u-s-lawmakers-seek-to-criminally-outlaw-support-for-boycott-campaign-against-israel/
MOST ((hbb’s))) are against every thing that’s SOUND ”anti-semitic”….
why*
((( ))) = joos
(( )) = jooishsch freunds
(( ))) = a combination of both above + ( ) goyishsch freunds
[[[ ]]] useful idiots on [whatever sides]*
I happen to have a talent for allocating capital. But my ability to use that talent is completely dependent on the society I was born into. If I’d been born into a tribe of hunters, this talent of mine would be pretty worthless. I can’t run very fast. I’m not particularly strong. I’d probably end up as some wild animal’s dinner.
But I was lucky enough to be born in a time and place where society values my talent, and gave me a good education to develop that talent, and set up the laws and the financial system to let me do what I love doing — and make a lot of money doing it. The least I can do is help pay for all that.
You’re taking him too literally sir
no. you’re taking me too literally.
the point is buffett understands something you don’t.
you even made a post on it, yet it’s clear you still don’t understand it.
he does not think he would have been in the 1% in the stone age.
he has also used the example of a 300 hitter.
such a person makes millions today, but without baseball what would he make? bubkes.
I get it, but i think most self-made billionaires would have made at least top 1% wealth in the Stone Age.
i know you do.
and i know you have no reason to believe that.
and i know you believe this tasmanian eucalyptus would be just as tall in the atacama.
time AND place.
not just place.
and i know you have no reason to believe that.
The reason is that self-made billionaires tend to be brilliant, and intelligence is largely genetic and rewarded in the stone age every bit as much as today (judging from selection for brain size in our prehistoric past). And presumably other market rewarded traits besides IQ (energy level, ambition, athleticism, sociopathy) are also genetic and were rewarded in the stone age.
…and intelligence is largely genetic…are also genetic…
and i know you have no reason to believe that.
you just desperately want to believe it for some bizarre reason.
to date there is ZERO evidence in support of the assertion that “intelligence is largely genetic”.
the same goes for all other psychological traits a fortiori.
unless by “genetic” one means heritable within a very narrow range of environments, very narrow in comparison to all environments physical, social, economic, etc. which mankind inhabits and has inhabited.
this is a very boring and stupid sense of “genetic”.
to date there is ZERO evidence in support of the assertion that “intelligence is largely genetic”.
Not if we assume the phenotype = genotype + environment model
the same goes for all other psychological traits a fortiori.
Why stop at psychological traits? If clones of all Americans could be raised in the stone age, would the clones of NBA players still be substantially taller and more athletic than the clones of average Americans?
this issue will be resolved when and if a single genetic scoring predicts rank order of scores in all populations on something like IQ tests in each population, they needn’t all be the same test.
this is will happen probably never and steve shoe and his ilk will continue to chase ghosts like they were in Ghost Hunters. many genes of small effect is a fraud.
this issue will be resolved when and if a single genetic scoring predicts rank order of scores in all populations on something like IQ tests in each population, they needn’t all be the same test.
Been there, done that.
Actually no. The link i cited predicted rank order of all populations but not rank order within all; not enough SNPs found for the latter
Mugabe you already realized that you do not explain your suspicions *
To say: ” intelligence is not predominantly genetic, that’s pathetic ” … it does not help at all.
I understand ‘intelligence is genetic’ in the same way that I understand that ” human intelligence has instinctive / innate and stereotypically behavioral roots. ”
Are you saying exactly what:
” That intelligence is not hereditarily transmitted ”
Or that / or also that
” The behavior has no intrinsic / instinctive origins or basis and is therefore totally passive in relation to environmental interactions ” **
”this is a very boring and stupid sense of “genetic”.”
Why*
What is its conceptual application of heritability *
You know that we are not born “with or without introversion”, necessarily, but with the whole spectrum and that we tend, naturally, independent of the environment, to operate more from a certain frequency of this behavioral spectrum.
We have a stereotypical spectrum: how constant or indiscriminate is certain behavior.
Some people are born very introverted: high level of stereotypicality
Others are born with a greater pre-disposition, and interactions with the environment will lead them more to one side than to the other, but tendentiously to this side, to express more intensely their introversion.
Others are born with some pre-disposition, in short, a spectrum.
Others are born with the opposite of tendencies.
If heritability is the variation of the phenotype in relation to the genotype, that is, if the phenotype will meet the expectations of the genotype, and express itself fully, then first we would have to identify the genotype, the reference point. It is as if you establish a point of reference in space and see how it moves away from that point, as it varies in space, relative to the reference point. The genotype is the reference point [ideal * idealized *]. The phenotype is the degree of angle in relation to this previously demarcated point.
We have, it seems, three types of characters: those that are produced during conception; Those that develop fully during the prenatal period; And those who will only fully develop in life.
The level of heritability of those that are already produced during the first stages of life formation, would be those of less phenotypic variation in relation to the genotype. Those that are fully developed during the prenatal period would show a greater tendency of variation than the first possible types. And lastly we have those who are most likely to vary via environmental influences. Eye color, secondary sexual characters, height *
Or in the case of height, it seems to be more dependent on the expression of the maternal or paternal genes, if man tends to be taller than the woman, anyway.
there will never be enough SNPs.
santo,
just post in english.
there’s no need to translate to chinese then to portuguese then back to english.
you do understand that saying…
there is ZERO evidence for X
is NOT the same as saying…
X is false?
don’t you.
is IQ like height? or is it like blood pressure, adiposity, insulin sensitivity, cholesterol. etc etc.
still no answer…
the best from prof shoe is…
“’cause that’s my hunch.”
I thought about laugh, but I saw that it was not funny.
Well, remember that English is not my mother tongue, and honestly, I think you [ALSO] do not have good verbal skills.
You can fool almost everyone here with your IQ-intelligence … almost
”you do understand that saying…
there is ZERO evidence for X
is NOT the same as saying…
X is false?
don’t you.”
Now I’m going to have to translate what your erratic mind is saying. I do not know.
Almost everything you accuse others to be, you are.
Self-deception/pedantic polymathism is sad!
tooautist#
”is IQ like height? or is it like blood pressure, adiposity, insulin sensitivity, cholesterol. etc etc.”
I thought IQ was not intelligence. You have to decide what to believe, because it is not productive to believe in two things that contradict each other at the same time.
There are blacks in the Americas, from Uruguay to Canada. Now in Europe, descendants of blacks / black Africans in North Africa in the Middle East. Now in the Far East countries. And in all of them, the patterns are pretty much the same, of course, with one exception here or there.
This is just an example of something that should not be overlooked by brilliant or supposedly brilliant minds.
Remembering that height or cholesterol are real things while IQ is a partially poor but somehow efficient tool to express real things.
We are not comparing the whole of intelligence with the whole of a real variable.