Pumpkin Person rating: 7.5/10
I had purchased a ton of movies from a discount bin at Walmart a few years ago and one of them was a little known 1979 Australian movie called Tim, staring a young Mel Gibson. I had actually forgot that I had purchased this film until commenter “Philosopher” asked me to do a blog post about Gibson, and so last week I finally decided to watch it.
The film, set in Australia, starts with a beautiful wealthy educated middle-aged woman named Mary (played by Piper Laurie who horror fans will remember as the mother in Brian De Palma’s 1976 film Carrie). When Mary’s gardener hurts his back, she hires Tim, a 24-year-old labourer (played by Gibson) to do work around her house. It slowly dawns on Mary that Tim is not all there mentally, but she continues to employ him and the two slowly fall in love.
Unlike the educated Mary, Tim comes from a working class family which would make sense according to scholar Arthur Jensen, because he appears to have what Jensen called familial retardation, which means that unlike organic retardates, whose low IQs are caused by physically deforming freak mutations and chromosomal abnormalities, Tim is a handsome athletic physically healthy normal guy, who just happens to have an incredibly low IQ.
Because his low IQ is biologically normal, we’d expect him to come from a low IQ social class, with Tim just being an exceptionally extreme case. By contrast organic retardation is just as likely to occur with any socioeconomic background.
As a fan of the slasher genre, I’m used to watching movies where scantly clad women are objectified and all the camera shots are from the male Point of View of the stalker watching from the bushes. Although my reasons for liking slasher films are 100% non-sexual (I was a fan of the genre long before puberty) I realize a lot of them are just one level up from porn and serve a prurient need for the viewer, so I was a bit uncomfortable seeing a film shot partly through the female gaze (Mary’s) and a man (Tim) being objectified, though I suppose it’s only fair.
It’s interesting that the film is based on a novel by a female writer, which proves that women can be sexually drawn to men they look down on intellectually, occupationally and economically, if they find the man physically attractive, and indeed part of Mary’s attraction to Tim is his low IQ: his vulnerability inspires her maternal instincts.
How low is Tim’s IQ? The movie never gives a number, but one clue is that he doesn’t know what death is and Mary has to explain it to him. Not knowing what death is suggests Tim has the mind of a 10-year-old, so on the old fashion age-ratio IQ scales (which gives reasonable results from about IQ 65 to IQ 135), Tim’s mental age would be 10, which is only 63% of adult mental age (16+), suggesting an IQ of 63, which sounds about right. Usually one step-up from Trainable (moderate) Retardation, familial retardates tend to be educable and only mildly retarded.
Gibson did a great job capturing this level of intelligence, because as commenter G-man has noted, such people often seem completely normal and it’s only after interacting with them for a bit that you discover the impairment. Unlike a lot of cinematic portrayals of retardation which are over-the-top and unintentionally comical, Gibson was subtle, quiet, and understated; perfectly walking that fine line between normal and sub-normal.
If you don’t wait too long, you can watch the ENTIRE film on YouTube for free, though sadly, a lot of people lack the compassion, patience, sensitivity and emotional depth to appreciate such an innocent and poignant movie.
Pumpkin Person 
what is the flaw in my argument peepee?
1. to the extent that one’s rank is mediated by his credentials and their prestige, then the extent to which these are correlated with IQ determines the mean IQ of a given country’s elite to the same extent that this elite is selected on the basis of their credentials.
2. because the US educational system selects for IQ less than that of the UK, france, japan, south korea, the PRC, etc. its elite must necessarily be at least a little dumber on average. plus the US has affirmative action.
this is not to say that the US elite is dumb. it is only to say that it is dumb-er.
i really don’t see the flaw in the argument.
If you compare the 20 richest self-made Americans to the 20 richest self-made citizens of any other mostly white country, I think America would come out on top. I could be wrong, but if I’m right, I’m not sure why it’s so; could have something to do with America’s economic system being more meritocratic, even if its college system is not. Or maybe smart Americans are more entrepreneurial than smart non-Americans for cultural reasons.
And of course, if one believes in HBD, then the fact that America’s elite tends to be Jewish would make it among the smartest, but I think even controlling for that, America’s mega-rich are relatively smart (i.e. Bill Gates, Buffett). If America had the dumbest elite in the developed world, the U.S. wouldn’t be on top.
have you forgotten than the us is the most populous developed country?
what is it? 315m?
japan is closest, and it’s 127m. doesn’t speak english. isn’t white. land area the same size as montana.
PUH-lease!
the US was born on third base and idiot canadians think it hit a triple?
just fucking sad!
Okay, adjust for population. The 20 richest self-made americans should be compared in IQ to the 2 richest self-made Canadians for example. Wouldn’t make much difference though
gates supposedly had a perfect or near it SAT.
buffet is smart, but both gates and buffett aren’t especially impressive in interviews. not to me anyway.
and by “buffet-“, i was of course referring to jimmy buffett. he only gets one “t”.
i had to listen to this in my dorm…
just sad!
maybe just because spring hill has its own golf course…my parents were married in its chapel. i taught myself to play “deutschland uber alles” on its piano…in the middle of the night…it was always open.
BS, the French system does not select for IQ at all, we have nothing like the SAT, the Baccalauréat is an examination based on all the subjects of the curriculum. And no school or college has tests of cognition required for admission.
Excellent post Pumpkin. Mel has an extraordinary oeuvre of work. His first directed feature ‘The Man with No Face’ is also well worth watching. I also enjoyed ‘Forever Young’ where he co stars with Jamie Lee Curtis whom you may recall from Halloween.
Mel is not just an action movie person. Far from it. I think people have been fed the false impression Mel is a hyper aggressive guy, when in fact like myself Mel eventually cottoned on to who was taking advantage of the types of people that enjoy these movies and relate to these characters.
Very complex guy. I will add this movie to my watchlist.
I’ll watch this movie. About the people’s comment, i’m just wondering if it could be also an HBD thing. To feel compassion, you need to put yourself in another’s person place, and that’s a thought experiment linked to a “what if” hypothesis, or condition reasoning, even if it’s a very simple one, and perhaps people with less than 100-110 IQ (just guessing), can’t do that, wich is 50-75% of white people and 85-95% of occidental black people …. (assuming an average black occidental IQ of 85, wich i don’t know in fact) .
In that case, you lack compassion for people lacking compassion 🙂
empathy is overrated.
few people understand themselves.
so understanding another person means understanding more about them than they do most of the time.
OIS, the french system doesn’t select high IQ people. It selects pupils from top 5% wealthy people, who are willing to sacrifice their 18-21 years old, studying 100 hours a week, to enter top 10 engeneering schools (2000 people a year) or top 3 management schools (1000 people) or the researcher school (ENS Ulm, 200 people) …. and then benefit all their life of the prestige. Some of them sacrifice their 21-27 years to enter ENA (80-120 a year) to benefit from the highest prestige in France and job for life in top position for executive branch or judiciary (People only need a 115 IQ for that, even less in management school or humanities program at ENS Ulm).
So it’s a combination of status and a lot of work but for a short period of time (you’re all the more willing to do that when it is a family tradition , and you’ve seen the benefits). When you go to a party, even if you’re 75 yo, people will ask you in what (university) school you did go. That’s always the first question. The same for a CEO recruitment or advertising in the press.
i didn’t claim it selects the smartest people.
i claimed it selects the highest IQ people.
please appreciate the difference.
all achievement tests are IQ tests and all IQ tests are achievement tests.
If the SAT is an IQ test, then so are school grades. Both correlate equally with the Wechsler in the general U.S. population.
Btw Cat, I’ll publish your guest post within 48 hours.
the highest IQ people in france have the highest IQs as an effect of their selection just as much as a cause of their selection.
but yes. france is schizophrenic. it’s a classist country whose upper class are raised to believe the french revolution was a good thing.
like everything french, it can only be laughed at, never taken seriously.
macron is one of these ENA people.
People only need a 115 IQ for that…
no. one needn’t be that smart, but he must have a high IQ.
When you go to a party, even if you’re 75 yo, people will ask you in what (university) school you did go. That’s always the first question.
now that’s pathetic!
just sad!
i fart in your general direction.
You don’t frighten us, French pig-dog! Go and boil your bottoms, son of a silly person. I blow my nose on you, so-called Capetian-king, you and your silly French K…kaniggets.
Zion’s gor big bruidgeiver kwai problem – in order to make a final push, it needs to drop the mask on identity politics and corral the orcs and harradrim to fight gentiles.
On the other hand, the very act of pushing identity politics makes whites more aware of racial differences, but most specifically – the jewish parasite.
Interesting times.
this is important. national IQ and hours worked per year (or what americans call “work ethic”) do not explain national income per capita very well.
People in clannish countries pretend-work more by logging more hours. But they’re not really doing anything.
the above figures might also be explained by higher labor force participation and more people working part time. idk.
i do know france has or had a 35 h work week. the french say, “work less. live more.”
very civilized. americans say, “earn and burn.”
would those lazy germans and norwegians be even richer if they worked as much as americans? probably, but only a little. hours on the job really do have diminishing returns.
No they wouldnt be. Wealth comes from redistribution. Marc was right. A good analogy is blood flow around the corpus.
Youll notice hours worked is related ti lack of redistribution.
Thats something the alt righters cant fogure out yet. They wont believe it until they go to denmark.
I doubt clannishness has something to do with it, these term is mostly used by Jayman and HBDchick, they are both full of shit.
What is more widely acknowledged is that the number of hours worked is negatively correlated with workers productivity. And as Mug of Pee pointed out, part time work lowers the figures in countries where it is a common alternative to unemployment.
It’d be better to compare the working hours of full time employees only.
it seems to me that both “official” IQ tests and un-“official” IQ tests emphasize speed over power in the psychometirc sense.
there are so many quick thinking fools.
do you see it or do you not see it?
i see them all, but i know some do not. and cannot. no matter how hard they try.
power test questions are a lot harder to come up with when they’re non-verbal. this is my explanation for the bias toward speed.
Obviously the first two are a dog and giraffe but the second set are harder. I keep seeing faces in the first one but an animal in the second. Am I stupid now?
The third one is harder. I don’t see that one. I see the other 3 images though.
The third one should be hard for someone of my opinions, but it was totally obvious, as were the other three.
“The third one should be hard for someone of my opinions”
What.
Where is it in the third one then?
I don’t want to give it away, but it represents everything I disagree with
there is one face in the third and one animal in the fourth. but the fourth has more than that one animal.
i know some people can’t get the fourth even though it seems easier than the first and the third to me, because my dad told me he’d looked at it for years and still couldn’t see it. it was in a popular book on gestalt psychology. he showed it to me, and i thought, “what? you can’t see it? you gotta be kidding me?” but that’s what a power test is like.
No disrespect to your dad, who sounds like a brilliant man, but do you think he might be a bit autistic. I believe everyone’s a bit autistic, but do you think he might be a bit more than most? Autistics apparently struggle with gestalt problems because they focus on small details and struggle to see the big picture:
Click to access Brosnan2004.pdf
Could this also explain why he made less money than expected for someone of his IQ and education? It could be because he was too moral, but philosopher seems to argue that too much morality is childlike and a sign of autism
Obviously…
that’s what makes a power test.
it’s obvious or it’s impossible.
Couldnt tell #3 at first. Leaned back a bit and it became obvious.
Don’t understand how anyone can miss #4.
there’s no such thing as too moral, and my dad was pretty immoral in other ways.
he was president of his hs class.
and being “a little autistic” is like being a little pregnant.
it’s stupid.
“too moral” is itself a moral judgement. it’s like saying, “there is no truth.” or like being an atheist.
and being “a little autistic” is like being a little pregnant.
it’s stupid.
Why is it stupid Mug of Pee? How do you know autism isn’t just an extreme on a spectrum of traits that exist in the normal population? Many conditions are.
and maybe i’m misremembering. but it was a picture in a book on gestalt psychology and there weren’t that many pictures.
I could see all 4 with ease.
if this is what they call an IQ test then IQ is even more voodoo than i thought.
I see a dog, a giraffe, a [half-right answer redacted by PP, March 27, 2017] and some dots.
” I don’t want to give it away, but it represents everything I disagree with ”
Did you get miloed as a kid?
All i meant was that i like to consider myself hyper-rational, even though you think I’m part of a cult 🙂
Holly shit, I understood number four as soon as I saw [redacted by PP, march 27]. This is bullshit.
You have the advantage of having the wordpress app
Yeah, but it’s a bit sloppy if I can get it with a simple clue. And the person that put the answer [redacted by PP, March 27, 2017] is everything but bright.
[four correct answers redacted by PP, March, 2017]
[three and a half correct answers redacted by PP, March 28, 2017]
[4 correct answers redacted by PP, April 3, 2017]
power test questions are a lot harder to come up with when they’re non-verbal. this is my explanation for the bias toward speed.
Correct. It’s unfortunate because all the bonus points for quick perfect performance on the Wechsler performance tests changes the nature of what’s being measured
I cant see 4. Third is [correct answer redacted by PP, March 27, 2017].
No i argued autists dont have morality. They have rule following. It overlaps with empathy. Sometimes it doesnt. What do you think newtons ideas on interravial sex and gay marriage were pumpkin?
Thats right.
Morality is a n illusion.
Well conventional morality. You can create an internal consistent system of morality from aesthetic in my opinion. I will write a book on philosophy one day and try to leave out the jews. Of course everything distortive in this world goes back to them.
A crime against nature is a crime everywhere. But some peoples amydalas are more sensitivr. Jon haidt has researched this – ‘sanctity’ he calls it. Hes right.
Wait, is it a [half-right answer redacted by PP, March 27, 2017]
haidt is another huge jew that makes pill the mossad-nik hard.
sad!
I would be shocked if you never agreed with a jewish writer at some point e.g chomsky, marx etc.
I listen to some magical music. Does that make me a magical-phile?
So am I a magic-Zion?
pill will appreciate this, supposing he isn’t peepee.
the inconsistency of capitalism in flashing neon lights:
1. for most businesses the biggest single expense is labor.
2. there are no labor futures contracts, unless one counts the CPI. but that’s a tres imperfect proxy and thinly traded.
3. this is because such contracts would only have buyers? if the contract were small enough even minimum wage workers could be among the sellers. if labor unions were stronger the contract size could be huge.
4. all big volume commodities except the single biggest commodity input to production has a futures contract.
btw. in america “labour” is spelled “labor”.
btw. in america “labour” is spelled “labor”.
HUh?
a non-marxist attempt at an explanation is that labor prices aren’t volatile enough that businesses would want to insure against them.
but then why not long tenor-ed futures?
they would still be valuable…
that is, if businesses made long term plans.
some certainly do. but they’re a minority i expect.
by long term i mean at least 10 years.
oil exploration and production companies are among that some. perhaps mining in general.
(and yes oil and gas are really just mining from an economic pov. the difference is only that oil is a liquid and natural gas is a gas, but metals are solids. it’s all extraction. forestry and fishing are also related industries in a purely economic sense.)
Interesting idea.
Never considered that.
actually it appears that CPI futures have been discontinued.
such contracts may still be made “over the counter”, but then banks would need dedicated traders.
so such contracts are likely non-existent today.
but why no exchange-traded labor futures or OTC labor futures?
this seems like a YUGE contradiction. just like the most often cited contradiction: employers pay their employees as little as they can. yet what most businesses produce is sold to employees/the proeltariat. a paraphrase: the rich spend too little and the poor spend too much. thus economic efficiency requires redistribution of income (to some extent).
Yes see my response above.
The heart requires blood flow of oxygrn aroubd the body. Ofteb times a small minority of ‘lower class’ people become sufficient and create externalities. Ie me .
I bring rainbows of jy to my co workers and management.
also btw,
just as the american elite is not dumb, wall street folks are not just parasites.
when bernie said, “their business model is fraud.”
that was a bit much. a bit “strident”.
1. wall street folks do important and difficult work. or rather some of them do. or rather some of them used to do.
2. their compensation for this work is absurd. it used to be bankers made as much as engineers and it was only the better paid ones who made as much as doctors.
3. so what’s happened, starting with reagan, is an absurd hypertrophy of finance. it’s cancer. it’s killing its host. it’s already come close to killing it in 2008-2009.
peepee is right. i am a marxist.
what she doesn’t appreciate is…
so is everyone of any account.
chomsky points this out so many times.
the question is NOT was marx (and engels) a perfect critic.
the question is were marx and his epigones prophets.
they were in part. but only in part.
why?
in part:
1. the soviet union from the end of he civil war to operation barbarosa accomplished as much in purely material/economic terms as britain had in 150 years…and later so many nobel prizes, the first man in space, etc.
2. the OBVIOUS problem…if you’ve read nietzsche. subtle otherwise. the government can only be as good as its governors and its governed.
One must shed the bad taste of wanting to agree with many. “Good” is no longer good when one’s neighbor mouths it. And how should there be a “common good”! The term contradicts itself: whatever can be common always has little value. In the end it must be as it is and always has been: great things remain for the great, abysses for the profound, nuances and shudders for the refined, and, in brief, all that is rare for the rare.
between the utterly corrupt “freedom caucus” and the bernie bros…
there is an aufhebung.
both are wrong. both are right. contradiction.
Such a remarkable writer nietsche. This is what i mean when i say philosophy is a kind of arty subject that dovetails the social ‘sciences’ and humanities well.
My favourite philosopher ive read to date.
That’s a quote!
great things remain for the great, abysses for the profound, nuances and shudders for the refined, and, in brief, all that is rare for the rare.
if one were designing an economy…
1. inequality is a motivator. even if the motivation is purely “positional”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_good
2. if the inequality is too great it is a de-motivator.
why is it a de-motivator?
1. the sick and correct feeling that one is being exploited…that one is a slave.
2. when the difference is sufficient the workers and the owners/managers become…different races. races! thus even an ethnically homogeneous society can be balkanized when “the market” becomes the god.
the foregoing is all obvious. but, i admit, it has the profound dis-confirmation of japan. or it has had. or it doesn’t.
that is, in the 80s the foregoing would have been confirmed by the example of japan. since then japan has been a dis-confirmation. supposedly!
but japan really is NOT a dis-confirmation because the japs are the longest lived people on the planet (very low rates of obesity), their standard of living has not declined, and they don’t want to be even richer. what has declined is the number of japanese. japan’s work force peaked in the late 90s.
Also, Japan and Korea have a culture of shame, they are taught to blame their situation on themselves and not to think the hierarchy is evil, hence the freaky suicide rates.
This brings us to the myth of East Asian empathy that must come from some obscure HBD blogger. Actually, East Asian societies are very exploitative, state welfare as well as private charity are very deficient. They used to rely on family bond but the size of families has decreased to a point that family is not the efficient safety net that it used to be.
Does any HBDer believe in “Asian empathy”? i thought the general theory was that they’re low testosterone/timid, but still materialistic, selfish, and generally conformist. Not particularly empathetic.
The Pioneer Fund clique traditionally includes empathy/altruism as one K selected trait.
Nobody says East Asia is not a clannish society. Only Afro said that. Afro just made up a tenet of HBD on the spot and ‘debunked’ what he made up. Such a hack.
Nobody’s talking about clanishness at all, imbecile.
scott pelley is the single most repellant tv “journalist”.
the jews are escalating. (pelley is a morally and mentally retarded gentile sockpuppet.)
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-fake-news-find-your-social-media-feeds/
this is the definition of fake news ^^^.
“fake news” is the fake news!
Call them “priest”. Our zion who art be in heaven hallowed by thy name. Thy kingdom come and will be done in america as it is in israel”.
Pater noster, qui es in caelis:
sanctificetur Nomen Tuum.
Thanks.
Don’t fuck with the Pater Noster and don’t fuck with Big JJ you heathen.
This is a common prayer in jewish household and at the National Review/Peterson Institute/Council of Foreign Relations. Show some respect for your social superiors.
“Show some respect for your social superiors”
You first, then go fuck yourself.
Poor Scott. imagine what it must feel like being a bakha bhazi boy for your jewish producer bosses and editors.
You work so hard to get to the top. And you realise its a racket but can’t just quit and flip burgers because you have a faimly and status to hold fast to.
So everyday you wake up with a dull pain in your chest from telling lies upon lies.
OH OH SPAGHETTI-OH.
Poor Scott must die a little inside hearing a silly smart person argue that fake news is ‘symptomatic of our age/more education is needed’ at a dinner party with other upper crust wives.
OH OH SPAGHETTI-OH
Pity the enunchs of the emperor.
Bernie must have slit his wrists backstage at every rally his did for the American Macron, Hillary.
Watch ‘The Network’. What a great movie.
Would be a cosmically just for Scott to lose his mind on tv and tell everyone its a high IQ low empathy gypsy fraud.
Oh OH SPaghetti -oh.
poor peepee. she still doesn’t get it. i guess she can’t. herrnstein and murray didn’t get it either. chomsky ridiculed them for it. he was right. other than luck…
the #1 reason why smart people and rich people are not exactly the same people is that a majority of people, and a majority of smart people, don’t have “get rich” on their to do list. they have better things to do. this is also true of many rich people, but a minority.
lagom ar bast.
poor peepee. she still doesn’t get it. i guess she can’t. herrnstein and murray didn’t get it either. chomsky ridiculed them for it. he was right.
No trust me I get it. I’ve corresponded with people with IQs 2 SD above you AND Chomsky, who had much less wealth than either of you. And they made the same obvious point, though it wasn’t always obvious to me until I got out in the work force and realized the sacrifices some rich people have to make.
Someone 2 SDs above Chomsky is either seriously mentally ill or severly autistic. Otherwise we would hear from them.
I was reading about some scientists in the Max Planck Institute and it sounds like some of them are schizoid or aspergery.
Its very hard to tell from the descriptions.
One guy was just mumbling numbers all the time and occasionally snapped out of it to say something to someone.
I also find it remarkable how Marsha who keeps saying she has a ‘170 IQ’ hasn’t said anything interesting.
Someone 2 SDs above Chomsky is either seriously mentally ill or severly autistic. Otherwise we would hear from them.
Let’s not get carried away. Not everyone craves attention. It seems many high IQ people just want simple lives and a lot of their ideas are on a level so advanced, they might not be appreciated by society.
Ok, let’s be honest– Marsha is probably a troll…
Yes. Its kind of remarkable how people cant see that redist helps like oil in a good car. The most important effect is anti trust. It stops cartels and monopolies which are a priori inefficent. Carlos slim is not viable in denmakr.
Stopping plutocracy is the number one aim of democracy and a modern welfare state.
The anti trust laws set the stage for fdr.
Teddy laid the groundworj for his nephew.
Both were among our best
I would class teddy as a more impressive president than perhaps lincoln and certainly reagan.
yet “anti-competitive business practices” do not include branding or “product differentiation”.
so those who extol competition should also be in favor of government mandated commoditization. they aren’t of course. because they don’t really believe in anything.
Lol, now Mug of Pee is arguing against intellectual property rights and defends state-sponsored counterfeits… Why do you drink so much ?
No, on a spectrum, branding and product design are nothing special. People have been naming ceylon teas, tobacco and so on before Bernays.
Something overtly conspiratorial like cartels, blacklists and overt intimidation or quasi legal agreements need to be broken up.
Some economists think centralisation of resources into ‘national champions’ is a good way of organising the economy. e.g East Asia.
I’m somewhat open to that.
it’s funny how paul ryan has described the US as a “capitalist democracy”. the two are incompatible even in japan. just as incompatible as communism and democracy. “democratic socialism” should just be called “democracy”.
Yes, its definitely more apparent now. Chateau linked to a Trump march in California which was led by a man holding a placard saying: “Da Goyim Know”.
I also am delighted to see Bloomberg and Wall Street Journal videos on youtube swamped in Jew bashing.
Yes yes, that’s right. Let Master know another affinity fraud is no longer viable and you will not tolerate him feeding your women to magic negro. Yes Yes. heh heh (rubs hands).
Copied and pasted from Wikipedia:
Among children, the cause of intellectual disability is unknown for one-third to one-half of cases.[5] About 5% of cases are inherited from a person’s parents.[6] Genetic defects that cause intellectual disability but are not inherited can be caused by accidents or mutations in genetic development. Examples of such accidents are development of an extra chromosome 18 (trisomy 18) and Down syndrome, which is the most common genetic cause.[6] Velocariofacial syndrome and fetal alcohol spectrum disorders are the two next most common causes.[5] However, doctors have found many other causes. The most common are:
Genetic conditions. Sometimes disability is caused by abnormal genes inherited from parents, errors when genes combine, or other reasons. The most prevalent genetic conditions include Down syndrome, Klinefelter syndrome, Fragile X syndrome (common among boys), neurofibromatosis, congenital hypothyroidism, Williams syndrome, phenylketonuria (PKU), and Prader–Willi syndrome. Other genetic conditions include Phelan-McDermid syndrome (22q13del), Mowat–Wilson syndrome, genetic ciliopathy,[14] and Siderius type X-linked intellectual disability (OMIM 300263) as caused by mutations in the PHF8 gene (OMIM 300560).[15][16] In the rarest of cases, abnormalities with the X or Y chromosome may also cause disability. 48, XXXX and 49, XXXXX syndrome affect a small number of girls worldwide, while boys may be affected by 49, XXXXY, or 49, XYYYY. 47, XYY is not associated with significantly lowered IQ though affected individuals may have slightly lower IQs than non-affected siblings on average.[17][18]
Problems during pregnancy. Intellectual disability can result when the fetus does not develop properly. For example, there may be a problem with the way the fetus’ cells divide as it grows. A pregnant person who drinks alcohol (see fetal alcohol spectrum disorder) or gets an infection like rubella during pregnancy may also have a baby with intellectual disability.
Problems at birth. If a baby has problems during labor and birth, such as not getting enough oxygen, he or she may have developmental disability due to brain damage.
Exposure to certain types of disease or toxins. Diseases like whooping cough, measles, or meningitis can cause intellectual disability if medical care is delayed or inadequate. Exposure to poisons like lead or mercury may also affect mental ability.
Iodine deficiency, affecting approximately 2 billion people worldwide, is the leading preventable cause of intellectual disability in areas of the developing world where iodine deficiency is endemic. Iodine deficiency also causes goiter, an enlargement of the thyroid gland. More common than full-fledged cretinism, as intellectual disability caused by severe iodine deficiency is called, is mild impairment of intelligence. Certain areas of the world due to natural deficiency and governmental inaction are severely affected. India is the most outstanding, with 500 million suffering from deficiency, 54 million from goiter, and 2 million from cretinism. Among other nations affected by iodine deficiency, China and Kazakhstan have instituted widespread iodization programs, whereas, as of 2006, Russia had not.[19]
Malnutrition is a common cause of reduced intelligence in parts of the world affected by famine, such as Ethiopia.[20]
Absence of the arcuate fasciculus.[21]
No such thing as “lower class” genes causing “familial” retardation.
No such thing as “lower class” genes causing “familial” retardation
How does your quote come even remotely close to debunking Jensen’s argument? That’s not an exhaustive list of all causes. It says up to half of cases are not understood.
Lol, no one even cares to debunk Jensen, he’s a nobody. What this quote implies is that environmental factors are enough to explain potential class differences in mental retardation incidence.
Genetic factors mostly cause what you call “organic retardation) and if you check the syndromes, they’re rather chromosomal than genetics. They also mention non-inherited genetic errors.
What’s left for “familial” class-related retardation and Jensen ? I’m waiting on your answer.
And word of advice, don’t try to estimate the IQ and cognitive profile of a fictional character, this is ridiculous.
Familial retardation is likely caused by variation in the same 10,000 genetic variants & environmental effects that theoretically cause normal IQ variation
Word of advice: stop giving unsolicited advice 🙂
Why don’t you get a Wikipedia account and make an update ? “Familial” and “organic” retardation are called “syndromic” and “non-syndromic” retardation.
Boy, use your brain a little bit: genetic defects mainly cause what you call “organic” retardation, the second cause they cite is genetic errors when genes combine. There is no “retardation in the normal range of genetic variation”.
I’ll always be here to give advice to the little ones.
Afro you’re failing to distinguish large genetic effects from small genetic effects.
Says Professor Peepee.
You’re welcome Student Afro Say Pee IN! 🙂
Ahah, no, I’m an inspectorate officer sneaking on you as an undercover student.
You should write your memoir. Call it Undercover student gets Schooooooooooled! 🙂
Lol, it won’t be about me then.
Denial’s not just a river in Egypt 🙂
Yeah, it’s also the story of your life.
True, dealing with your denial has become part of my life 🙂
Except when I downplay my awesomeness, I’m never in denial. You however… Nah, let’s keep it civil.
Look at PWS. Caused by a deletion on chromosome 15.
It’s a chromosomal disorder, nothing to do with genetics and they have an average IQ of 70. I’ve not done any research on any other disorder, this is the largest I’ve done on a specific disorder.
Youre a fuckin retard afto how do you explain that?
“Youre a fuckin retard afto how do you explain that?”
Exactly. Bye, Felicia !
He didn’t let the usual barrage of petty insults fly or indulge in his loony lovey-dovey talk about the lethal Vladimir Putin.
Mike Pence and Paul Ryan beamed behind the president, like the proud parents of a hockey goon who gets through the game without a trip to the penalty box.
Liberal CNN commentator Van Jones was effusive in praising Trump for his paean to Ryan Owens, the Navy SEAL who died in the first counterterrorism mission hastily authorized by the new president.
“He became president of the United States in that moment, period,” Jones said, calling it “one of the most extraordinary moments you have ever seen in American politics, period.”
The emperor of chaos was able to muster 60 minutes 14 seconds of non-embarrassing behavior before we were all ensnared once more in the bizarre and venal Russian subplot of the Trump presidency and another Twitter onslaught against Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi for having met with Russians.
What is the moral of this?
Verbal IQ < 120.
Maureen Dowd NYT
Once YOU SEE IT. You cannot UNSEE Zion in action.
It is everywhere.
Our movies, our music, our fashion, our armies, our textbooks, our ads, our new neighbours from the sinkworld, our ideas, our nightclubs, our newspapers, our tv news, our teachers, our priests, our schools, our laws…
We are under occupation.
And 80% of the population can’t even tell. or would self censor the idea of even thinking about the jews negatively.
I told you it was all a hoax phil
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/23/israeli-police-arrest-man-over-bomb-threats-to-us-jewish-targets
Obviously he’s the fall guy.
This was a mossad operation to make people think that jews are being persecuted. And this stuff happens all the time.
I think Trump told the FBI to go at it because he was receiving a lot of hate from jews.
the same goes for the jews painting swastikas on their homes/synagogues
If my hatred of neocons was any more i would spontaneously combust.
Even with a few drinks on me now my vision is pitch black.
Thats it . Im doing a mel gibson marathon to calm down.
The first is a dog, second a giraffe, then [correct answer redacted by PP, march 27, 2017]. The last looks like a [correct answer redacted by PP, march 27, 2017].
G-man you’re a genius!
I got the smartest fans of any celeb!
What makes you think you’re a celebrity?
All the comments on my blog.
Oh please, we’re just a handful of trolls.
I didn’t notice the [redacted by PP, March 27, 2017] immediately, to be honest. I could sense there supposed to be something else, I wasn’t sure what.
You mentioned a couple things it could be and since one of your suggestions was right, I credited you with it, but the thing you say you didn’t notice immediately is not the correct answer.
DAMMIT!
Then what the hell is it? I started looking at it from the top left corner going down to the bottom right, and I can see [redacted by PP, March 27, 2017], I can see other things too…after looking long enough.
You said what it was earlier. You named a couple things you thought it was and one of them was right.
The first is a dog, the second a girafe, the third [correct answer redacted by PP, march 27, 2017], the last one is [correct answer redacted by PP, march 27, 2017] I didn’t need one second for each, even if i don’t know if my answers are correct, or whether it’s any way related to intelligence.
Another 4/4!
My readership is smarter than Harvard!
And with Bruno’s brilliance, we have more evidence of brain size & IQ correlating at the high end!
My head is so big, i went to ski and 62 cm Helmet didn’t fit. Then, i was in a Party, and someone took a pic of me and i looked like a freaking monster. I think my head is 65 cm Pumpkin …. I don’t like that but that’s life.
PS : If Harvard level is 125, i don’t think it’s a compliment to be above that level. Mensa told me i was the only one in France in years 2000′ with a perfect score at Verbal IQ part of the test since 1978 and i did it in half of the time. But i m not good at spatial IQ or mechanical IQ. I’m very good at numerical IQ. I’m like more of a jewish than a asian, being neither.
Well Harvard’s arguabley the smartest school in the world. Almost certainly in the top 5.
Those are spectacular stats Bruno, both for head size AND verbal IQ! Because you have to guess a huge number of highly self-selected people applied for mensa in that time.
It would be fascinating to estimate the implications. So yours was the highest in at least 22 years?
Has anyone considered collecting all of Mugabe’s comments into a book and trying to sell it?
I’m thinking along the lines of Bed of Procrustes by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. I’m sure Mugabe has thought of this already.
Taleb owes his entire 15 minutes of fame to him being a useful idiot.
The thesis of his book ” the black swan” is stuff happens.
He was so useful to Goldman Sachs & friends because he argued that things like financial crashes can not be avoided because stuff happens.
Notices how they put his book on the NYT best sellers list right before the 2008 financial crash.
His background makes him even more believable.
The man is an idiot who was simply used to prepare people for the 08 crash.
Nah, Taleb is legit. Lot of respect for his views.
Yes. Mensa France is very small, 1000, but because people – as myself don’t stay. I think there are 200 admitted people each year, with a minimum IQ of 132. So out of av. 25 years, would be 1 in 5000 in verbal IQ. I dont remember what was the maximum score in verbal, i think 105, i had something like 102, and the second best was 98. But i’m not sure of the figures because it was av. 13 years ago. I also remember that the admission stat was very high, more than half of the people succeeded, so perhaps the tests used by french Mensa wasn’t correctly calibrate to select at 132. Speaking to people there – it was free for people younger as 25 years old – i thought that minimum IQ was more 125 than 132. I let you calculate, you’re the pro.
One in 5000 could be a huge underestimate because these aren’t random people, but people selected to be at the top one in 50 level (+ 2 SD) on some measure of intelligence. It’s tempting to multiply 5000 by 50 and say you’re one in 250,000, but we don’t know how many of those 5000 people qualified on the same test as you did, and even if they did, they presumably qualified with their overall score, not their verbal score. But one in 5000 (+3.53 SD) is too low an estimate, and one in 250,000 (+4.47 SD) is probably too high an estimate. We could split the difference and say +4 SD.
Wait– have you seen the Bloomberg most influential list published every year?
i found this online:
The Goldman Sachs aptitude tests are taken following the first interview. There is a numerical and verbal test given to all candidates whilst technical candidates also face a technical test. These tests are a mix of CEB’s SHL and Goldman Sachs’ own.
that is, only if you’re called for an interview, and i guess only if you pass it are you administered these tests.
this proves my point.
in the case of actuarial jobs there were always at least a dozen applicants. with gs or jpm i expect it’s 100s. per job. so one needn’t give a bad interview to be passed over. just an interview less than the 99th percentile as judged by the interviewer or interviewers. and a finance major with straight As who has a friend on the inside can get in from st could state. but it doesn’t matter. muggsy bogues was 5’3″ and he’s not proof that short people have no excuse not to play in the nba. they do.
although i was led to believe by paul young that there were no such tests. that may have changed since Ricci v. DeStefano. idk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricci_v._DeStefano
and btw, these tests are available online. super easy.
I know a guy that worked for SHL’s competitor, Kenexa. If you don’t believe in HBD now, you will after looking at the data.
I never asked him how well our favourite middle eastern colleagues do however.
I went to a non-prestigious state university in the South, and there was a banking/finance society that had a really high GPA requirement to get in. And prestigious financial companies (including some from Wall Street) would come to recruit people on campus, but would only talk to people in this society. I knew a few people who were recruited.
Fortunately, law school recruitment is even more straight forward: score really high on LSAT, have a decent GPA (at least 3.6 if you’re white), get into Yale/Harvard/Stanford, and you’re set for life.
more complaining
” A finance major with straight As who has a friend on the inside can get in from st could state”
oh dear………
this is a great example of low social intelligence.
There is no way in hell that a redneck that went to a bush league college like St Could State could have a friend on the inside (initially) .
And what value is there in getting straight As in finance at St Cloud State ?
all of the profiles i showed you were of people who started at low level places and built up a strong record of making money and then went to JP Morgan.
The cream nearly always rises to the top.
The reason you think it doesn’t is because you have this delusion of being gifted.
It is genetically impossible for a gifted person to be fired for being a slow thinker.
Did you cry when it happened ?
Did mommy give you a Popsicle to make you feel better?
Well both Robert and Jimmy are right in a sense. It helps so much to attend Oxbridge or HYPS in life. No doubt. To the point that its almost irrelevant saying you can go to a state and still prosper the same way without many lucky breaks and investment.
But you can ‘make’ breaks.
I never went to the Ivies or Oxbridge but still got white shoe offers.
The key is marketing (your CV), networking and aggressively mining your contact or alumni networks.
I got an hour lunch with a Goldman managing director on the back of shared nationality.
Its possible. I also networked into McKinsey recruitment at a CFA event.
Sometimes you hit it off with one of them and they give you a contact.
That being said, you have to be extremely socially intelligent to know what they might want to see in someone. Literally to the point where you have a good emotional pitch story and sound and talk the same.
The key advantage of HYPSbridge is the network. You are buddies with the plutocracy’s babies.
If you are jewish you play life on super easy mode. One could go to Alabama Culinary Arts College and still get a Goldman interview.
Being a girl or a minority would X5 your chances needless to say.
Except Asian. You don’t get pokemeon handicapped person points because you will be seen to be competent.
Or an ugly girl.
Except in very male industries like engineering or tech.
Damn, Jimmy is so raw!
jimmy isn’t raw, he’s delusional and retarded.
sad!
idk. did they start at “low level” places? what makes you think i could have gotten in their? i couldn’t. they don’t want math majors. but plenty of rich kids go to shitty schools. like ucb for example. so of course they could have people on the inside. very unlikely they didn’t in america it’s the rule not the exception. personal contacts lead to most jobs.
sad!
it’s you who think i’m “gifted” not me.
sad!
you do a bad impersonation of not being peepee.
cream on your money.
sad!
i do know one guy who wrote the book on lehman brothers. he went to a cow college and became a broker after selling things door to door. he said the broker exam was the hardest he’d ever taken. ha! just persistence. just pushiness. the guy was a retard. just like you hymie.
again…
very…
very…
sad!
…in there…
former VP at lehmann and the exact opposite of cream.
the cream always rises to the top?
yet another fact in hymie’s fantasy world.
sometimes it’s cream. sometimes it’s just a floating turd.
do you admire jeffrry skilling or raj rajaratnam or michael milken or lance armstrong or…?
what rises to the top is what rises to the top. sometimes it’s cream. sometimes it’s…
not.
usually not.
i hope marsha’s baby is eaten alive by a sasquatch.
It s quite interesting you end uo with 4 sd because my mum told me some years ago (long after mensa) i was in kindergarten because i diidnt want to go to school any more : the two reasons were my drawings were the worst and that was forbid to answer teacher question. My parents thought i had some retardation pb. She remembe a psy tested me and the result was 164. My mom dont remember the test name and the scale. It could be 2.6_ sd or 4 sd or’just the ceiling . I was also admitted in prometheus society but not in mega, but i worked the test only on evenings during 5 days and scored 38. Mega was 42. Prometheus i don’t remember. Best scores on first attempt were 46 with two women (one in canada and the one from parade). I was a astonished and a bit disappointed not to have spent a month on it !
Another thing that can be interesting for cognitive skills study is that i still can’t draw above the level of a 4yo child. I can’t do a head separate of a body unless its schematic with lines . A second problem is that i write with my left hand being right handed for everything esle, so i writte very slow . This was an unxompensated handicap for all of my study: i lost 50% of the time and some points for being difficult to read. It was never spotted beforme my late 20ies and at that time the info was useless to me (i had integrated all programs i wanted despite this habdicap in France where everything is written exams).
My parents thought i chose it on purpose to make it more difficult for me but i dont think so ….
Currently on the radio: they are saying national soccer teams and popular clubs victories correlate with peaks in birth rates 9 month later in France, Iceland, Spain and Italy.
Chinese riot in Paris, LMAO. #YellowLivesMatter
http://actu.orange.fr/politique/paris-manifestation-tendue-apres-la-mort-d-un-homme-d-origine-chinoise-tue-par-la-police-liberation-CNT000000FupZu.html
Range Rover Velar
Marine Le Pen having some Gucci time
http://www.closermag.fr/video/nicolas-canteloup-fait-pleurer-de-rire-marine-le-pen-video-711435
Everybody’s getting craycray over Rick Ross’s New album.
No more low class news for today.
http://md1.libe.com/photo/1007637-manifestation-de-la-communaute-asiatique-le-27-mars-2017.jpg?modified_at=1490679303&width=750
After the leftists, the blacks and the Muslims, the Chinese join the party. Move to Mars guys, the West is doomed ahahahahah !
Very good french outfit. Much better than the junk Afro copies and pastes for 10c a go on the internet.
Universal Traveller and Surfing Like a Rocket are very good as well.
I remember visiting my french cousins and seeing how the upper middle class french love this electronic stuff. Some of it is indeed very enticing.
There’s a massive difference between me and my engineer cousin. Although in looks we are about equal. My cousin is a very good lookin lad as well.
But as an engineer he lacks ‘edge’.
I told him hit the gym and bulk up. He dresses like Animekitty. But not [redacted by PP, March 28, 2017].
The French hate this shit.
Yes in Haiti. But not in France.
You know nothing about both country so just fuck off you dumb ass creep.
How dare you. I have a haitian son.
Lindsey Graham has lost his mind. He’s made a speech talking about Russia rigging France’s elections.
Anyoen that pushes the ‘Russia’ line is a neocon jew tool.
At least it makes it easier to spot the blackmailed people I suppose.
My namesake congressman is embarrassing as well on the dem side.
I’d say psychology seems to be the most popular major nowadays. That was my first choice way back when. We pick subjects first here.
Pity they are not allowed teach you the interesting stuff. Very useful subject for personal application and growth, if you read off cirriculum.
I ended up doin econ instead after dabbling in philosophy.
I should have done philosophy and a vocational master in finance/statistics or something.
Why has there been no great philosopher of the past 50 years?
We are not allowed to think dangerously.
Aquinas may be the only noteworthy philosopher for 1000 years of Western history up until Descartes.
Same reason.
If you think dangerously, you will be punished. So its back to scrabble and advanced legal studies –
What does ‘studies’ mean? Does the word subject have substance? Is it completely and veritifiably understood in its ‘objective’ flavour by all who use it, even the foreign student from Taiwan. Can we use a better word? But we will never agree then! You see fellow! We can’t make arguments because Hang Lo can’t understand it! We are doomed to live in ignorance!! AAAHHHHHHH
If only one man knows who rules the goyim, does that mean the goyim are not ruled by the high IQ gypsies:
(a) balance of statistical probability says no
(b) the man also said the sun revolved around the earth, he’s mad
(c) he is saying random stuff at random
(d)the authorities would never lie as they make the rules, and the rules are sacred and make me feel nice and warm and cuddly, and why are you asking this question? Don’t you have a respsonsilbility to your family? Why are you so mean? Why is there a problem. Maybe you should shut up buddy because that’s a fascist thing to suggest. You are a heretic. We don’t want heretics talking to our children.
Try to tell the difference between linguistic philosophy and theology.
The ‘how many angels dance on a pin’s head’ is the same family of thought as ‘can common language ever be necessarily true’.
Arguably the latter crowd take it more seriously.
i agree pill.
anglo-american “philosophy” is NOT philosophy, and the reason is genuine thought is simply not allowed. it’s…what’s the word?…outre. that is, this is what it is in the anglo-prole-sphere which is governed by one ideology to the same extent that stalin’s soviet union was so governed. well…actually a lot more…because the anglo-prole-sphere can’t put those who question its ideology in the gulag. it holds together, because so many MORE believe it. chomsky explains this many times.
at the same time it is good that clarity be championed. the problems with this are that…
1. original thinking is always going to be less than pellucid, simply because it is not a train of cliches. it will be thoughts its readers haven’t thought. chomsky explains this too when he talks about concision.
2. communicating and clear expression take practice, and one may be routinely understood by some and never by others.
The greatest philosopher of the past 50 years was Rodney King:
“Can’t we all just get along????????????”
since ww ii 9 of 13 british PMs has graduated from oxford, brown graduated edinburgh, john major, callaghan, and macdonald did not graduate from any.
concluson:
the cream always rises to the top.
so far hymie has yet to post any facts i have not refuted.
concentrate hymie. i know you can do it if you really try.
let’s get anal-lytic.
people can be partitioned according to a relation. a partition defines a relation. this relation needn’t be total/linear. but for pushy retards let’s assume all relations are total relations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_relation
people can be partitioned by ability/talent/IQ/etc. and people will argue over the essence of this cluster of relations between people. “person A is smarter than person B.”
they can be partitioned by annual earned income.
they can be partitioned by wealth and income from wealth.
they can be partitioned according to how white they are. (but only hymie knows.)
furthermore these partitions needn’t have an order, partial or complete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_order. but for pushy retards let’s assume there is a rank of the partitions such that for every partition, one partition is at the top.
people are tribal. people want to belong to a group. they want to attend ascot and and drink negronis in tuscany and think they’re in.
sad!
and…
they want to believe that whatever group they belong to is the best group, the group which all other groups are below.
so they equate all groups which are at the top with whatever group they fancy themselves a member of.
sad!
and FALSE!
there is an ordering of people by a given IQ test, one objective standard. there is a vague and blurry ordering by ability/talent/IQ/etc.
there is an ordering by annual earned income.
by wealth and passive income.
by white-ness.
it would be a miracle if these orders aligned and the moon was eclipsed.
it isn’t.
it’s more like an eclipse none notice because it’s so imperfect.
GET OVER IT AND GROW UP!
there’s more to hymie’s ideology.
for example:
what does one give up by pursuing a career? be becoming an expert? by working more than one needs to?
about 250 years ago in europe and more recently in the rest of the world almost everyone was born, lived, and died in a small town. the town was self-sufficient, or nearly so. the “unit of production” was the family. there were no businesses and there were no jobs. the son did what his father did. or, rarely, he was apprenticed.
i asked a guy at the drunk when i “interviewed” at UIUC. (UIUC has a top 10 chemistry department.) the smartest guy there, but too smart. i asked him about what it was like to work 72+ hours week in an organic lab. he said…
the pigeon hole is painful.
it’s painful to men, but not to pigeons.
get it?
there’s a system. not in the sjw retard sense. it varies from country to country, but there’s a system. it hasn’t been designed by anyone. it just is. it’s its own thing. and…
one can choose it and give up being human.
or he can reject it and be human.
there are YUGE prices to be paid either way.
but not to pigeons.
how many men are left?
much less than 1%.
and that is…
sad!
PP, tonight, i’ve got my girlfriends family (brother and parents) and my mother and grandmother at home and i’d like to test them in your gestallt images. I wonder if the two images i saw for three were both correct or only one of them. I’d like to know in order to be able to do correctly the test. Because i think it’s different to see everything, something or to get lots of conjecture among them one or all would be true. I wouldn’t consider the latter case as a correct answer.
For info, my girlfriend is an orthopedic surgeon, her sister too, her mother is a pharmacian and her father a (rich) lawyer. My mother has no formal education (after religious school) and my grandmother read law at university but never worked. They are all quite posh (not like me, i’m very respectful, but not well-mannered, moving like a big “bear” ). I think my girlfriend and her family are 115/125 person and mine are >150 persons. My grandmother is above 160 i believe because she understands everything instantaneously.
Only one answer is correct but if someone says the right answer, i credit it, even if they also say a wrong answer, because in my opinion, perceiving the right answer is impressive, even if you’re unsure it’s right
Btw i was fascinated that you draw like a 4-year-old despite your spectacular (verbal) IQ & superhuman brain size
Can you do your best to draw a person (without copying) and show it to me? I think you’d make a fascinating case study to blog about but if you’re uncomfortable with that i understand
“Btw i was fascinated that you draw like a 4-year-old despite your spectacular (verbal) IQ & superhuman brain size”
Are you implying that drawing ability is linked to verbal intelligence? It’s not. It’s the opposite.
Paul Messaris cited Howard Gardner’s (1983) question: “…because spatial intelligence contributes to picture-making ability, might spatial intelligence be an area of cognitive functioning enhanced by experience with images?” (Messaris, 1994, p. 27). In fact, several specific subject areas have been identified as correlating with these abilities. Eliot & Smith pointed out several positive correlations between spatial ability and a general art class (.404) and specific art-related skills such as technical drawing (.45), metal work (.485), mechanical science (.492), and woodworking (.67) (Eliot & Smith, 1983, p. 436 & 442).
Drawing ability is, of course, linked to intelligence. But it’s spatial ability—not verbal ability.
Good evidence that creativity is domain-specific:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4664616/
Ever heard of ‘visual-object ability’?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20887982
But yea man, art isn’t based on verbal intelligence.
RR all known cognitive abilities are positively correlated. That’s what the g factor is.
Now the correlation between drawing and verbal is weak but it’s still positive, at least in the general population
Oops, first source here:
Click to access ED409859.pdf
Explain how verbal ability has anything to do with drawing please.
That’s easy. They both load on g
I know you understand my question.
Explain how high verbal ability has anything to do with the ability to draw well.
I just told you. Both are positively correlated because they both load on the g factor. No one’s going to want to argue with you RR if you just keep repeating your questions, pretending they haven’t been answered
You repeating ‘it is because it’s correlated’ is not a good answer.
Explain how high verbal ability alone has anything to do with the ability to draw.
But that’s precisely the point. Verbal ability is NOT alone. No known cognitive ability is because they all load on g.
You’re in the big leagues now RR. Black national merit finalist G-man has ranked this as one of the three most important blogs on the entire Internet. You have to step up your game if you want to hang in such elite circles.
“But that’s precisely the point. Verbal ability is NOT alone. No known cognitive ability is because they all load on g.”
Thanks for not answering a direct question.
“Black national merit finalist G-man has ranked this as one of the three most important blogs on the entire Internet.”
1) Good for him. 2) Why does one singular opinion always matter to you and hold so much weight? 3) You’ve got to step your game up if you want to talk physiology and weight lifting, because you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.
“You have to step up your game if you want to hang in such elite circles.”
…
Thanks for not answering a direct question.
WTF? You’re asking me to defend a position i never implied. I implied verbal ability was related to drawing because ALL cognitive abilities are related via g, i never implied verb ability INDEPENDENTLY implied drawing talent.
No one’s going to want to argue with you if you waste their time attacking straw men instead of actually making an effort to understand the other person’s point. It’s a waste of your time too.
Why does one singular opinion always matter to you and hold so much weight?
You’re actually far more guilty of that than I. You pick these random acadamics (herculano-houzel, jr skoyles, Daniele Lieberman) and give them enormous weight, even when most scientists in their respective fields don’t agree with them.
You’ve got to step your game up if you want to talk physiology and weight lifting, because you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.
I simply claimed there’s no proof whites are genetically stronger than blacks, but if your NFL bench press analysis shows they are, i will accept it as probably true.
“WTF? You’re asking me to defend a position i never implied. I implied verbal ability was related to drawing because ALL cognitive abilities are related via g, i never implied verb ability INDEPENDENTLY implied drawing talent.”
There we go. That’s the answer I was looking for.
“No one’s going to want to argue with you if you waste their time attacking straw men instead of actually making an effort to understand the other person’s point. It’s a waste of your time too.”
I thought you assumed that verbal ability (in its function) had anything to do with art and was wanting further clarification from you.
“You pick these random acadamics”
“herculano-houzel”
Respected scientist and scholar.
“skoyles”
Cognitive neuroscientist, evolutionary psychologist and polymath.
“Daniele Lieberman”
Paleoanthropologist who knows a thing or two about biomechanics and why and how the body became the way it is.
“and give them enormous weight, even when most scientists in their respective fields don’t agree with them.”
Herculano-Houzel is a respected psychologist/neuroscientist. Many people in psychology don’t agree with Rushton et al, so what am I to make of this statement that you just made to me?
“I simply claimed there’s no proof whites are genetically stronger than blacks”
If this is your claim, then this specific claim has been rebutted. I showed this here.
“but if your NFL bench press analysis shows they are, i will accept it as probably true.”
This is going to be fun. We’re going to go through the data from 06 to 17 by position and relevant event. We will provide our data set and tables as well. Going to take a bit to complete though.
Rushton’s theory is considered racist so of course he’s rejected by a lot of people but the above scientists you cite are politically correct and socially acceptable and STILL most of them have not convinced even other scientists in their specific fields that they’re right
If this is your claim, then this specific claim has been rebutted. I showed this here
I don’t see how that proves whites are genetically stronger than blacks, but maybe experts in the field would find it convincing, idk
The NFL study would be more interesting to non-specialist readers like me and i look forward to it being a guest post but i realize it will take a long time
And i hope you still guest post the NFL analysis even if you don’t get the results you want
I think scientists and amateur scientists like me should be forced to commit to publishing even before the study is done to avoid publication bias (file drawer effect)
“Rushton’s theory is considered racist so of course he’s rejected by a lot of people but the above scientists you cite are politically correct and socially acceptable and STILL most of them have not convinced even other scientists in their specific fields that they’re right”
But you’re talking as if no one has ever responded to anything that Rushton has written and he was only decried as a ‘racist’ all the while his data and research lie untouched.
Herculano-Houzel is a leader in her field of comparative neuroanatomy. She’s also a psychology professor at the University of Vanderbilt.
You of all people should know that people agreeing with a theory/hypothesis doesn’t discount the veracity of it—especially when the data points in that direction.
“I don’t see how that proves whites are genetically stronger than blacks, but maybe experts in the field would find it convincing, idk”
Powerlifters and Olympic Lifters have type IIa fibers while blacks have majority type IIx/b (x and b are interchangeable). Further, slow twitch fibers fire first when doing a lift, so if slow twitch fibers fire first, the logic dictates that those who have more slow twitch fibers would be stronger.
“I don’t see how that proves whites are genetically stronger than blacks, but maybe experts in the field would find it convincing, idk”
It’ll probably take us to mid-Summer to complete. I want to assess all blacks and all whites (or a relevant sample) pound for pound in the bench press. We’re going to do overall strength, strength and muscle mass, pound for pound strength (the most important factor) and do the 40 yd dash, long jump and high jump as well. Should be a fun project.
“And i hope you still guest post the NFL analysis even if you don’t get the results you want
I think scientists and amateur scientists like me should be forced to commit to publishing even before the study is done to avoid publication bias (file drawer effect)”
Of course I will. My views have substantially changed in the past. I showed you that I’m prob wrong on race and baseball (https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/03/25/possibly-retracting-my-article-on-hbd-and-sports/) so I can change my views and let others know when I may possibly be wrong.
I used to believe that a kcal was a kcal, I used to believe that dieting worked, I used to think that it doesn’t matter what we eat as long as we get enough kcal/nourishment (I changed my view on that a few months back, but only changed it due to sufficient data). I try not to get swayed by biases, as you can see.
But from my knowledge on physiology/lifting, I’m right on this side of the fence. And that shows in the WSM.
But you’re talking as if no one has ever responded to anything that Rushton has written and he was only decried as a ‘racist’ all the while his data and research lie untouched.
I think Rushton did an excellent job given the data that was available 30 years ago. As we’ve learned more, some of his claims may have been debunked but he was probably right on the big picture.
You of all people should know that people agreeing with a theory/hypothesis doesn’t discount the veracity of it—especially when the data points in that direction.
I agree, I was just saying that you often rely on one expert and treat them like they’re the gospel.
Powerlifters and Olympic Lifters have type IIa fibers while blacks have majority type IIx/b (x and b are interchangeable). Further, slow twitch fibers fire first when doing a lift, so if slow twitch fibers fire first, the logic dictates that those who have more slow twitch fibers would be stronger.
But muscle fibers are only one of the factors that determines strength. We agree that blacks have superior testosterone, even if you think the difference is small (the only study done on YOUNG men showed it to be large though that study was not large). And what about muscle size? That must influence strength and that appears to favour blacks, judging by their dominance of body building.
It’ll probably take us to mid-Summer to complete. I want to assess all blacks and all whites (or a relevant sample) pound for pound in the bench press. We’re going to do overall strength, strength and muscle mass, pound for pound strength (the most important factor) and do the 40 yd dash, long jump and high jump as well. Should be a fun project.
It will be a major original contribution to HBD because there’s so little research on racial differences in strength
“I think Rushton did an excellent job given the data that was available 30 years ago. As we’ve learned more, some of his claims may have been debunked but he was probably right on the big picture.”
Of course he did but he wasn’t right about everything, My point was, you made it seem like people only said his claims were ‘racist’ and never replied to them in a scientific manner.
“I agree, I was just saying that you often rely on one expert and treat them like they’re the gospel.”
….
“But muscle fibers are only one of the factors that determines strength.”
Leverages do too and Europeans have a favorable morphology.
“We agree that blacks have superior testosterone, even if you think the difference is small (the only study done on YOUNG men showed it to be large though that study was not large).”
After adjustment for age and BMI, total testosterone was higher in blacks (0.21 ng/ml; P = 0.028) than whites, an approximately 3% difference.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12376505
” And what about muscle size? That must influence strength and that appears to favour blacks, judging by their dominance of body building.”
Muscle cross-sectional area does not entirely predict inter-individual differences in strength. Muscle size doesn’t predict strength gains due to resistance training. Increases in strength are greater than increases in muscle due to resistance training. Strength loss occurs faster than muscle loss. What’s that tell you?
“It will be a major original contribution to HBD because there’s so little research on racial differences in strength”
This is one of the reasons I got into HBD in the first place. This is more interesting than IQ to me.
I’ll keep you updated on the progress of it.
After adjustment for age and BMI, total testosterone was higher in blacks (0.21 ng/ml; P = 0.028) than whites, an approximately 3% difference.
But the difference could be bigger at young ages than at old ages and by lumping all ages together, the meta-analysis obscures that. But even 3% is not a trivial difference at the group level. How big is the muscle fibre difference? Maybe it’s only 1%?
Muscle cross-sectional area does not entirely predict inter-individual differences in strength.
But my point is no one variable entirely predicts strength, and your argument is based on just one variable: Muscle fibres.
This is one of the reasons I got into HBD in the first place. This is more interesting than IQ to me.
And you’re better off not being interested in race and IQ since it’s a taboo topic. Race and strength is much less controversial. Speaking of controversy, you should change your name from Race realist to something less controversial. Just a suggestion.
I’ll keep you updated on the progress of it.
Cool
“But the difference could be bigger at young ages than at old ages and by lumping all ages together, the meta-analysis obscures that. But even 3% is not a trivial difference at the group level. How big is the muscle fibre difference? Maybe it’s only 1%?”
Three percent is trivial at the group level and does not explain PCa acquisition rates (nor is high testosterone itself a risk-factor). Muscle fiber difference: 41 percent type I fibers for whites and 33 percent type II fibers for blacks. Obese blacks and whites were more likely to have type II fibers whereas thin blacks and whites were more likely to have type I fibers. So fibers differ by race, therefore that explains some of the variation in disease acquisition between the races.
“But my point is no one variable entirely predicts strength, and your argument is based on just one variable: Muscle fibres.”
No it’s not based on one variable. It’s based on somatype and morphology as well. I know that no one variable explains strength, but you have to understand how much of a difference muscle fiber type means.
“And you’re better off not being interested in race and IQ since it’s a taboo topic. Race and strength is much less controversial.”
lol. I’ll talk about that when the time comes. But I use this for my own personal knowledge as well. Race and IQ is interesting, but new information is slow to come out so I’ve moved on to other interests until something big happens.
“Speaking of controversy, you should change your name from Race realist to something less controversial. Just a suggestion.”
Why change my name when I’m already known as RaceRealist?
My grandmother is spanish and her second family name is Japon because she comes from a city near Sevilla were in the XVII century, Coria del Rio, 6 samourais who went to see the king of Spain and of France, decided to stay and mated with the locals. All the descendants of those samourai were called Japon for family name and today they are 700 descendants among them my grandmother, who married a french man in the 1950′. She has also german origin from people who came to Cadiz in the XVIII century from northern germany. And there were called German as family name.
Yes i ´ll do that. I have to scan it at work. The image i first see is [redacted]. Tell me if it’s correct please so that i can do the test.
Yes, you are correct.
Done. You have a pic of my “drawing” in your email box.
I received it. I will write the article and post it next week!
You’ve got my agreement.
PS : As for the image, i see the 1st one without thinking about it. The second image i see, i needed at first some seconds to see it. If possible, you should enquire about it, because as my first one was right and wasn’t an hypothesis, i doubt the second one is a false hypothesis constructed by my mind and isn’t there. Perhaps only a fraction of people who see the first one can see the second one. It may be an hidden image. If you know the person who made the test, you could perhaps ask him.
My disabilities who may be connected with low g are ability to draw, ability to dress myself correctly (like have the shirt upside down, or shoes on the wrong foot) and staying clean (while eating, after bathroom etc. ). And the other side, i started playing piano at 13 and in 2 years, validated 9 years of paris school music level. And after 4 years, i was admitted to national school of music (a bit like Curtis) but didn’t go and my teacher wanted me to be a professional player but it stresses me to play in public too much. I play some Chopin Etudes faster than most professional pianist (like Czerny). I some told me my interpretation of op 10 n°1 was as good as Argerich, Ohlson or Rubinstein but faster. So obviously i don’t have a general problem with my hands control ! So if you have clues on my “case”; i’ll be happy to know.
Bruno are you left-handed?
Yes i write with my left hand but i do everything else with my right hand (football, knife, vision for shooting etc). No one in my family is hand left so i didn’t choose the left hand to imitate them. My parents went to psy for this pb but the guy told them to let me choose the hand i wanted. My grand-mother said that as i was clearly right-handed i should be trained to used the right hand but no one listened to her, thinking she was a retrograd. Then, when i understood the pb, i was in my late twenties, and it was too late to change (i went to a psy specialized in writting pbs and she explained me that). She told me like i was in the same situation as a hand-right person who had lost his right-hand and were forced to write with the left : bad hadwritting and low speed are the results . She thought i had no dislexia (another factor that explain pb in manual writting).
And Bruno does your unique cranial & cognitive profile run in your family or are you a one-off?
She explained me that i could have gained a handicap help for exams but as i was graduating from the best institutions in France, so there were no point in doing the process to get this (unnecessary) disadvantage compensation.
For g, it’s difficult to say. I always thought my father was stupid because i was a total contrarian without arguments. His favourite sentence waas “i don’t believe it is that way”. But somes years before he died, he was 42, when i passed the mensa test, i gave him the pre-selection mensa test. There were 40 questions to be done in one jour, and 32 was ok to proceed for mensa. He got 40 in 30 minutes. I was really astonished. But he was far behind me in Verbal and Numerical and far ahead in spatial and mechanical questions. His head was small. My father finished high school with 16 yo (2 years in advance) and read naval engeneering 1 year. But his father died (very young as he would die himself) and he stopped his study to manage the family company he inherited.
My mother has a very big head for a woman. She never speaks about anything intellectual and care only about housing stuff. But i suspect her to be quite bright because she is very sensible. My maternal grandparents were a petroleum engeneer and a lawyer, but my grandmother never worked. I think my grandfather was a spatial IQ and my grand mother more verbal IQ. My grandmother has a big head. Some of her cousins are geniuses.
PS : I just saw in an internet site that for male, head circunference was 54 in average, 58 cm was >2 sd, 62> 4.5 sd and 65 >6.3 sd, i didn’t imagine most people had very similar headcircunference between 52 and 58 cm for male.