My heart goes out to all who were killed and wounded in the Brussels attack yesterday. It was an epic tragedy that has justifiably received enormous coverage in the blogosphere and all over the media.
Making the day even worse was the tragic news that Ontario’s very own Rob Ford has passed away. The man brought with him an energy and love of life that was contagious. He will be missed by many. Special thanks to national merit finalist Ruhkukah for mentioning him in the comments.
Image found here
Now waiting for your “Average IQ of an islamist terrorist” post, just to add insult to injury.
It’s an important topic, but out of sensitivity to the tragedy, i will not blog about it this week.
but out of sensitivity to the tragedy
I wonder to what extent such a quality is associated with IQ.
It hints that you are further up along the empathy and/or conformity curve (the former being associated with higher IQ, the latter with lower IQ).
Conversely, the likes of JayMan and Sailer (and myself frankly) don’t really care and push our analyses/blatherings out immediately, which means we probably empathize less but don’t care so much social niceties/taboos.
It hints that you are further up along the empathy and/or conformity curve (the former being associated with higher IQ, the latter with lower IQ).
Interesting. The two traits could negate each other so there is virtually no net correlation with IQ. Although I’ve seen no evidence that conformity is negatively correlated with IQ. I know a lot of creative Geniuses in history were non-conformists, but as Bruce Charlton has noted, one reason creative genius is so rare is that it combines high IQ with certain lower IQ personality traits.
Conformists might have low IQs because they mindlessly follow the group. On the other hand, humans evolved to follow the group, so conformity might suggest an overall healthy brain, including high IQ, while non-conformity might imply mutant genes that drag the entire brain down. On the other hand, non-conformity might suggest an ability to think beyond our evolved impulses, and thus high IQ. Either way, I think the correlation is small.
Conformist people are no more empathetic, they are just average, they don’t need fight against any degree of self-maladjustment.
They don’t need re-create themselves, for them the world is ok, imperfect but fine.
They are subconsciously aware that they are just average, no more manipulative, no more thinker, no more virtuous or criminal, no more smart. They ”adapt” easy because they don’t have much to loose.
For him words are just useful ornaments for their usual existential torpor.
If god there or not, for him, no much matter,
if system is saying complete truths or not, no much matter,
the meek man is also very shallow.
True anti-conformists are rare, most of them do conform to a norm which is not that of mainstream society but are very conformist when it comes to the sub-culture they associate with.
Then I think the level of individuality people like to express while conforming to any norm depends on their self esteem. People with lower self esteem will tend to be invisible within their own crowd whereas those with higher self esteem will like to stand out without turning their back to the norm they follow.
True individualists who can’t fit in any social (sub)group are called sociopaths.
Non-conformity is about existential perspective, where you are in the society where you live, how you perceive the world* Is not just or fundamentally the brain-body system characteristics but also how you interact and perceive yourself and others in the social environment where you are. Singular people tend to perceive/understand the world differently. But it’s not just have some single mutant-trait like homossexuality. Also is important have other traits, like a composition, a phenotype. A lot of lgbt people are average or is inside the normalcy spectrum and even those who are out of it will not be a bright outsider.
we are never a single note, but a symphony.
Average people perceive the world averagely and generally similar one each other, the masses, the populace.
Bright non-conformists perceive much more problem OR internalize them as relevant (most people perceive truisms but they don’t think that is important, they don’t care, because they are distracted or directed to other micro-transcendences), the personal ideational circles.
Why the leftists generally don’t care about white race preservation**
Because in their top priorities it’s not even in the top 30. I thought perceive and keep in mind as important the racial differences is a evolved human trait because every new useful and blatantly differences that creates the reality contrasts is very important to navigate in this world. And is likely that they always were like that. What differentiates is that today they are in the power (with others…).
Leftists have the evolutionary function to increase genetic diversity and racially-aware people have the evolutionary function to balance this dynamic. A lot of artists are left-leaning and a lot of them are very outbred. Little hybrid vigor may have some effects to increase the creativity.
* test *
pumpkinperson-
* “Interesting. The two traits could negate each other so there is virtually no net correlation with IQ.” *
So are they both dependent reactions to the event? Or is one the dependent of the first, which is a dependent reaction to the event?
What do you think?
pumpkinperson-
* “Interesting. The two traits could negate each other so there is virtually no net correlation with IQ” *
So are they both dependent reactions to the event? Or is one the dependent of the first, which is a dependent to the event?
What do you think?
what about variance under that scenario? How would that work?
So are they both dependent reactions to the event? Or is one the dependent of the first, which is a dependent reaction to the event?
Maybe they’re both independently related to IQ, but in opposite directions.
Is that likely? I mean, that in an individual such traits would completley cancel out.
I know now it is mathematically possible but seems practically, in research/naturally occurring, unlikely.
Is that likely? I mean, that in an individual such traits would completley cancel out.
Unlikely that they would completely cancel out, but likely that they would roughly cancel out. Things roughly cancel out all the time. I have a friend who is very bad at basketball so you’d expect him to be very short. But he’s also extremely heavy so you’d expect him to be very tall. Both expectations cancel each other out, so if you factored in both, you’d correctly predict he was of average height.
Great, my intuition thought 0 is 0. But of course close to zero is a different thing.
Thanks for clearing that up.
redacted
redacted
peepee is right.
height is something which is impossible to change…short of surgery…or hanging upside down…
that is, after a certain age one’s height is FIXED.
psychological traits of ALL kinds, including IQ…are CLEARLY NOT like height in this respect.
just take the short end.
after age 18 one might suffer some injury to his brain which reduced his IQ…even when some accommodation was made for his disability.
but is such a brain injury the same as…
losing one’s legs below the knee from an accident or diabetes?
NO.
IT
IS
NOT!
and in the case of obesity, high blood pressure, insulin resistance, high cholesterol, low HDL…
i know a regimen which would reverse ALL of these.
and there’s no need for matching this “healing” environment with the genome.
it works for ALL genomes…or all but 0.0….01% of genomes.
but, i agree with the hereditists that…
the older one is the HARDER it is to change…one’s “psychological traits”.
so that past age 18 it becomes ALMOST impossible…
yet…much LESS impossible than changing one’s height.
an example of late age characteristics…
my brother and i have been harry chested since hs, but our father had no chest hair until his 30s.
peepee is right.
height is something which is impossible to change…short of surgery…or hanging upside down…
that is, after a certain age one’s height is FIXED.
psychological traits of ALL kinds, including IQ…are CLEARLY NOT like height in this respect.
I think the real debate is not between hereditists and environmentalists, but between those who think intelligence is like height, and those who think it’s like muscle mass.
I could be completely wrong, but I think it’s more like height, in that it can’t be changed except in the most extreme ways, and when it is changed, it’s usually fake (i.e. someone who scores higher on IQ test after more education has not really become smarter, he’s just become more test-wise, analogous to someone scoring higher on a stadiometer after learning not to slouch or buying better shoes). By contrast, the politically correct view is that intelligence is like muscle mass. Mental exercise can make almost anyone above IQ 115 just like physical exercise can make almost any man over 200 lean pounds.
Ironically the Flynn effect, the very phenomenon that is thought to prove intelligence is malleable, actually proves the opposite. IQ may have gone up 30 points, but probably 2/3rds of the gains are just test sophistication. Very few people would seriously argue people today are genuinely much smarter than Victorians, and to the degree that we are smarter, it’s likely because the biologically environment improved hardwired neurological traits like brain size.
peepee doesn’t get it.
if shoe were a chinese descended from chinese who came to work on the railroad in the middle of the 19th c then his bitching wouldn’t be nauseating.
but neither of his parents were born in the US afaik.
it would be the same if some genuine african american…one whose parents were born in africa…bitched about “discrimination”.
and, indeed, it’s a dirty little secret of affirmative action in the US, that it disproportionately benefits “african americans” who are either the children of africans or caribbeans…
one sees this every day on his tv…
obama — father from kenya
eric holder — bajan
colin powell — jamaican
gwen ifill — bajan
lester holt — half jamaican
it’s fucking ridiculous.
my own father had a black roomate at harvard…
he was a ghanaian.
and so this is “explained”…not really…with the usual hand waving and bull shit…
immigrants are the best of the countries they leave…immigrants work harder…blah, blah, blah…
NO!
the difference is that black immigrants are outside the american class system.
black americans whose ancestors have been in the US forever are like the Burakumin…
except they can’t hide it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin#.22Tokushu_Buraku_Chimei_S.C5.8Dkan.22_incident
The average suicide bomber is middle class and doesn’t show any signs of abnornities. Suicide bombing also increases inclusive fitness.
http://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2016/03/27/evolutionary-reasons-for-suicide-bombings/
Man, I was being sarcastic.
And your sympathy for the victims of the attacks is rather insulting in my opinion. Opposing groups of people based on myths just to satisfy your primitive instincts. In the end, you’re all going to burn in the same part of hell.
Man, I was being sarcastic.
I know. But a lot of truth is said in jest
And your sympathy for the victims of the attacks is rather insulting in my opinion. Opposing groups of people based on myths just to satisfy your primitive instincts. In the end, you’re all going to burn in the same part of hell.
Huh?
“I know. But a lot of truth is said in jest”
No, not at all. We really don’t need to know how bad or well these fools do on silly puzzles.
Wtf is Afrosapiens talking about…
I think he’s saying HBD is evil, thus it’s insulting for HBDers to have sympathy for the victims of evil.
It was a rhetorical question 🙂
Some HBDers ARE evil. Like Lynn. But I don’t think you’re an evil HBDer, Pumpkin.
Sorry, I meant Raymond Cattell, not Lynn. I’m not interested in HBD, but I do remember coming across an execrable quote by Cattell. He basically said, “We should judge people by their skin color, not by their individual merits. People of color are inferior, even if they perform well.”
It was a rhetorical question 🙂
I know, but I wanted to defend Afrosapiens because I empathize with his anger. HBD does degrade entire groups of people using inconclusive evidence. Of course that’s going to offend good people like Afrisapiens. If i didn’t find the topic so fascinating, I would be offended too.
But ultimately HBD (like any other alleged science) is just a tool. It can be used for good or bad.
Can’t you write my nickname right ?
A F R O S A P I E N S, with a O, like Obnoxious.
a fat guy dies from fat cancer/cancer of the fat…
it’s funny and not funny at the same time.
btw…
i was thinking the other day how under-valued the works of keith haring are.
if peepee is the rich bitch she says she is, she might “invest” in a work of haring’s.
thus far afaik his highest price is “only” 4.5 m.
and that for a fag who died from AIDS at age 31.
and for one whose work has genuine artistic merit…at least to my eyes.
Pumpkin person is not rich, most of his hobbies, interests and views of the world are very prole. He might have above average income, but he sure doesn’t have the cultural capital of the elite.
I can afford to act like a prole because no one of any standing would ever mistake me for one.
because of everyone of any standing would take you for one…correctly.
is there anything more prole than an obese bull dyke?
is there anything more prole than an obese bull dyke?
Yes. Your mother.
Oh no…
wikipedia has listed another guy who died from the same very rare cancer, and he didn’t appear to be fat.
but he was a professional poker player.
Probably because of “non-shared environment” which is nothing to do with the environment. Obesity is almost 80% heritable, just like IQ. Here’s the latest on non-shared environment: http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/?p=5852
These cancers are very heritable.
cancers are very NOT heritable you lying fucktard.
if IQ is like adiposity…
or blood pressure…
or cholesterol…
then it’s…
100% environmental…
you fucking retarded fucktard piece of shit.
is there any evidence that lipo sarcoma is heritable?
if there is FIND IT.
but you won’t. YOU’RE JUST MAKING SHIT UP.
there ARE a VERY small number of cancers which ARE heritable…
these include some forms of breast cancer and retinoblastoma iirc.
pancreatic cancer may also run in families.
but so can ischemic heart disease for fuck’s sake.
and heart attack is 100% preventable unless you suffer from familial hypercholesterolemia.
this is what fucktarded hereditists don’t get…
it’s not the genes…
AND
it’s not the environment…
it’s the INTERACTION between genes and environment.
nature vs nurture is a FALSE DICHOTOMY.
as a matter of FACT cancer is still quite a terror for most people, precisely because its cause is unknown in almost all cases, and thus the means of preventing it is also unknown.
afaik the only way to prevent cancer in general is…
1. periodic fasting
2. strict veganism or an otherwise low protein diet.
laron dwarfs are IMMUNE to cancer, but calorie restriction does NOT reduce IGF in humans (it does in mice)…
1 & 2 lower IGF, which is the ONLY global risk factor for cancer yet identified.
for example, the taller you are the higher your risk of cancer. author michael crichton is an example, but fed chair paul volcker is a counter example.
Moron. NOTHING is 100% environmental. Maybe you can find some environmental attenutation on cancer risk, but for mental traits like IQ or schizophrenia there has been almost ZERO evidence of any such GxE effect.
Carl,
It’s already been established that you have a very low IQ.
no study has looked for GxE.
those that report no GxE and those that report some GxE are reporting GxE for the population as a whole (and that is always a local population) not for populations and not for individuals.
but behavior genetics “researchers” have low IQs, so they don’t even know what is meant by GxE at the level of populations and individuals vs the population as a whole.
those like you, Carl, who follow this pseudo-science are even dumber than its “scientists”.
and this because, i repeat myself:
WHEN THEY SAY THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR GxE, WHAT THEY’RE REFERRING TO IS NOT GxE.
IS NOT GxE…
IS NOT GxE…
REPEAT THIS TO YOURSELF…
Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.
BEHAVIOR GENETICS IS PSEUDO-SCIENCE CONDUCTED BY PEOPLE TOO DUMB TO BE REAL SCIENTISTS.
FOR EXAMPLE, PROF SHOE.
IF HE WERE A GENUINE PHYSICIST, HE WOULDN’T WORK AS AN ADMINISTRATOR.
DUH!
and i have already detailed exactly what would be required to demonstrate the P = G + E model.
it can be done, but it hasn’t been.
why?
because the behavior genetics folks are too fucking retarded to know what it is.
i have written plomin, btw.
in my e-mail i called him a “retarded cunt”.
i hope he read it, but i doubt he did.
to summarize:
a necessary and sufficient condition to establishing the validity of P = G + E is that the rank order of genomes is invariant across place and time.
an exception to this rule falsifies P = G + E, makes it just another approximation.
an exception:
phenylketonuria.
that is,
the rank of those with G = phenylketonuria relative to everyone else DOES vary over time and place.
QED
motherfucker.
E1 = all those with phenylketonuria are retarded
E2 = those with phenylketonuria have the same IQ distribution as everyone else, and this change in the environment for phenylketonurics has NO effect on the IQ of non-phenylketonurics.
P != G + E.
quod erat demonstrandum
For IQ, the common understanding is that variation in phenotype is mostly additive with respect to environment, so the effect of “good” environment is to shift the phenotype by some approximately constant amount for each genotype, relative to “poor” environment.
Cognitive differences between groups tend to remain stable no matter where those groups go. The outcomes of the Chinese in Malaysia, Indians in Nigeria, or Ashkenazi Jews in the US, to pick only a few examples, would suggest that there is a good approximation to a linear norm of reaction for cognitive ability, at least for the agrarian and industrialized worlds.
The industrial environment is rapidly taking the place of all others. There’s likely no significance of any hypothetical reversals of cognitive fitness in these other milieux.
So that approximation to a linear reaction norm would remain valid. Which is why P = G + E remains a valid approximation. In fact, the findings of no GxE actually prove that there is a relatively parallel reaction norm, meaning P = G + E is a meaningful approximation.
“Indians in Nigeria”
What is that community ?
and i have already detailed exactly what would be required to demonstrate the P = G + E model.
it can be done, but it hasn’t been.
why?
because the behavior genetics folks are too fucking retarded to know what it is
I saw an interview on youtube with “shoe” (as you call him) & he explained that the first thing that happens when they discover a gene for any trait is that other scientists in other countries want to replicate it in their samples, and what they find over & over is that if it replicates in one country, it replicates in another.
Whether it replicates with cognitive ability genes remains to be seen he noted
Doesn’t that comment show an understanding of reaction norms? They’re just not at the stage where they test for that because too few genes have been discovered
And chartreuse, IQ genes from GWAS have been replicated in independent cohorts, something you’ve deemed was impossible: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289615001087
Also: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2899491/
“[T]he sheer volume of evidence from twin studies and the corroborating evidence from adoption studies and studies of other combinations of relatives makes it unreasonable to deny the presence of genetic influences on behavior. And because the genotype pre-exists all behavior, these genetic influences have to be considered causal at some level.”
no.
professor shoe doesn’t even understand basic statistics.
inter alia, he doesn’t understand the implications of the P = G + E model at its extremes.
that is, he doesn’t understand that even if the P = G + E model were true, those at the extremes would benefit from E much more than those in the middle…that is, the difference between their genetic “true scores” and their P scores would be much greater than that of those in the middle…much greater. i’ve stated this many times on this blog and others. and this is just math…a consequence of the model.
yet!
prof shoe continues to think that IQ is “like height”, rather than like adiposity, blood pressure, insulin sensitivity, or cholesterol. that is, a trait where genes are a sine qua non for “greatness” vs traits where everyone can achieve greatness given the right environment even though these traits are often found to have an h^2 as high as that of IQ.
that is, not everyone can be, or could have been, 7′ tall, in any environment, but everyone can have a blood pressure of 100/60, a body fat % < 10%, a cholesterol of 100/60, and an extreme of insulin sensitivity relative to the present day average in the developed world.
*there is a very small minority, as there is with IQ, who will be fat, hypertensive, etc. irrespective of the environment…but this is a TINY minority.
that is, he doesn’t understand that even if the P = G + E model were true, those at the extremes would benefit from E much more than those in the middle…that is, the difference between their genetic “true scores” and their P scores would be much greater than that of those in the middle…much greater. i’ve stated this many times on this blog and others. and this is just math…a consequence of the model.
But that’s true of height also. Under the P = G + E model, seven footers (excluding pathological cases) benefited much more from environment than six footers. Because what you’re talking about is just simple linear regression from the phenotype to genotype, right?
Now whether IQ is a static phenotype like height or a dynamic phenotype like weight is a conceptually separate question from its heritability or how much extremes regress from phenotype to genotype. A Promethean I knew once felt it had both a static and dynamic component, and that chronometrics improved the dynamic part.
I saw an interview on youtube with “shoe” (as you call him) & he explained that the first thing that happens when they discover a gene for any trait is that other scientists in other countries want to replicate it in their samples, and what they find over & over is that if it replicates in one country, it replicates in another.
you either misunderstood him or he’s LYING.
idk about physical traits, except that shoe had a post on how alleles for blood pressure were consistent across populations…the problem for shoe and shoe-ism is that blood pressure is one of those traits which is NOT like height.
as for psychological traits, it’s not just IQ…
to date NO allele, or genetic variant of any kind, has been found for ANY psychological trait (other than retardation) which has been replicated at all or has been replicated consistently. and the search has gone one for at least 35 years.
this is a FACT.
the closest to an exception is the so-called worrier/warrior gene…but it has been replicated ONLY under limited circumstances…namely child abuse.
An Honest Liar is a movie peepee should watch. fakery and fakir-y isn’t just limited to evangelists and psychics. the whole of behavior genetics is ripe for a Randi-an expose.
what’s even more despicable about shoe is:
1. he’s a transparent chines supremacist. he’s even a fan of kung-fu/ultimate fighting.
2. he believes that psychological traits other than IQ are hard wired…ignoring that all psychological traits other than IQ are LESS heritable than traits like blood pressure, adiposity, cholesterol, insulin sensitivity, etc.
3. he’s a child of immigrants who speaks of “our long history of race” and bitches about harvard’s class being “only” 1/3d asian.
the guy can be dismissed as un-serious and disgusting without getting into the details, just like charles “the cross burner” murray.
Fucking moron. We know 60% of the heritability of height from variants:
http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v46/n11/full/ng.3097.html
I fucking linked you with a paper which showed that IQ variants were replicated
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289615001087
you either misunderstood him or he’s LYING.
I just watched that part again (it starts around the 31:23 mark in the below video) and his answer was a bit more nuanced than I remembered. It was in response to a question about whether genes are ancestry specific, but his response applies to whether genes are environment specific too. What he actually says is that if an allele has a certain effect in one country, it GENERALLY has the same effect in another country, but he noted that’s not always the case. It sometimes happens that a gene that has a positive effect in one country has a negative effect in another, but that appears to be the exception, not the rule.
So I think he understands reaction norms but just dismisses it as unlikely for most genes. In a way your criticism of him is ironic because he probably understands reactions norms better than any other HBDer because the entire BGI study is about replicating super high IQ genes found in China with a comparable super high IQ population in America. The very fact that he is trying to replicate the same genetic effects in two completely different developed countries implies reaction norm awareness, does it not?
1. he’s a transparent chines supremacist.
Innuendo. Just because he, like you, has pride in his culture, doesn’t mean he’s a supremacist. Neither of us know him personally.
2. he believes that psychological traits other than IQ are hard wired…ignoring that all psychological traits other than IQ are LESS heritable than traits like blood pressure, adiposity, cholesterol, insulin sensitivity, etc.
Almost all psychological traits, other than IQ, are measured with vague subjective questionnaires full of arbitrary items, so it’s not especially surprising that they’re less heritable than state of the art physical exams.
3. he’s a child of immigrants who speaks of “our long history of race” and bitches about harvard’s class being “only” 1/3d asian.
I agree that his criticism of Harvard is ethnocentric, especially when he ignores other groups that are underrepresented after controlling for test scores, but at least his bias is transparent which is more than I can say for some other bloggers.
the guy can be dismissed as un-serious and disgusting without getting into the details,
If you held scientists on your side of the argument to the same level of scrutiny, you could dismiss a lot of them as “un-serious” too. I just wish you could focus on the science and leave the personal attacks out of it.
mass media types are mathematical imbeciles, like peepee…
in the most recent dem contest…
sanders…73 delegates
clinton…55 delegates
the ultimate dream…
sanders v trump both via contested conventions.
so sanders in on track to get that 57% i posted on previously…
i changed my registration just so i could vote for bernie…
from independent to democrat…
my only objection to bernie is that he’s a smelly jew…
but he is from the state with the only charterhouse in north america (meaning panama to canada)…https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charterhouse_of_the_Transfiguration
and my “spirituality” is decidedly carthusian.
mass media types are mathematical imbeciles, like peepee…
Get your free degree:
https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/04/02/get-a-degree-in-heritability/
Then you can question my math skills.
another of peepee’s secrets revealed.
she’s FAT.
most bull dykes are.
That’s no way to talk about your mother.
peepeee feels the need to disguise the fact that she doesn’t have a penis.
peepee is the female, non-white, canadian bruce jenner.
despicable.
peepee is the female, non-white, canadian bruce jenner.
So that’s how you picture me in your fantasies! I’ve always wondered.
I think he’s kidding you.
According to the few pieces of information you shared with us, you’re one ugly motherf**ker (pardon my french).
You must be of the very Anglo kind, like pinkish piggy skin, light eyes, light hair, borderline overweight, ill proportioned body (too short for your width), no notion of style and elegance whatsoever, signs of precocious ageing.
That’s what I think your ex-girlfriend had to endure. By the way, it’s cool the two of you didn’t commit the crime of having a child, that would have been a disaster. No offense.
I think he’s kidding you.
You’re a Genius!
By the way, it’s cool the two of you didn’t commit the crime of having a child, that would have been a disaster.
We learned from your parents’ mistake.
No, seriously, I’m not saying that because you are probably ugly and your ex-girlfriend must not look much better than you. It’s because of your views on education and child rearing, they make me believe that your poor offspring would have been left on his genetic devices and be the subject of various degrading experiments.
I’m not saying that because you are probably ugly and your ex-girlfriend must not look much better than you
Whatever makes you feel better, Afrosapiens.
.It’s because of your views on education and child rearing, they make me believe that your poor offspring would have been left on his genetic devices and be the subject of various degrading experiments.
I believe education is extremely important for acquiring skills, I just don’t think it increases real intelligence.
And how would you feel if yo had a child whoseIQ isn’t respectable enough in your eyes ?
It’s very hard to predict how I would feel. Above all I would feel fear for that child’s future, especially after I’m gone. I would probably end up loving my lowest IQ child the most, because that would be the child who most needed me and that would be the child I would most worry about.
This even if his school performance and social interaction are not that worrisome ?
And what about your higher IQ child ? Would you let him free of supervision, believing that his IQ will naturally lead him to make good decisions and behave appropriately ?
Afro-Sapiens: “*Would you let him free of supervision, believing that his IQ will naturally lead him to make good decisions and behave appropriately ?*”
Intelligence is the ability to adapt/ foresee based on observations, or in some cases,knowledge (both of those require the ability to understand/reason).
If his Higher- IQ kid never had the experiences, he could not know what will/will not occur, unless he is very observant and very high IQ.
Teenage maturity and IQ, I would suspect do not correlate completley.
Plus, IQ is not the only factor in personality, lifelong.
Definitely a very interesting hypothetical. You’re quite sharp.
HBD, or not, you are still a very bright person, who happens to be black. We acknowledge this. Why are you getting so upset?
I’m upset because of hate, whatever kind of hate whether it is HBD, antisemitism, islamism. It’s the same mental disorder whose manifestations varry according to the cultural background of the hater.
You see, if Pumpkin Person had been raised in a European Ghetto, he would have supported the attacks.
Why doesn’t he consider each person as an individual and judge them according to their qualities and merits and nothing else. That’s what makes me upset. Who is he to make pseudo-estimates of other’s human worth (which is what IQ means to him) ? To label people according to their background and assimilate them to certain behaviors on that basis ?
That’s even more shoking when each of his posts show how ignorant and obnoxious he is.
“*If pumpkinperson was raised in a European Ghetto, he would have supported the attacks*”
Yes, I know. I think that line being used against blacks/non-white Hispanics is completely ridiculous, especially when it comes from the most backwards, thuggish, low-IQ people who are non-Hispanic white.
If I lived with people on this AmRen thread; http://www.amren.com/news/2015/08/ann-coulter-donald-trump-ted-cruz-understand-the-immigration-primary/ I would hate non-hispanic whites…. they incoherently babble about Ted Cruz’s ‘Spanish/Cuban’ roots (because that means non-white of course) while basically saying Ann Coulter is ‘bangable’ all while having profile pics of the biggest Neo-conservative of all time, Andrew Breitbart, I would be saddened by the anti- intellectual depravity.
I did a statistical analysis, with a variety of sources to find that Trump supporters have an average IQ of 90, so I think they provoked the hispanic protesters (IQ 92, say sources).
So that remark cuts both ways, if David Duke or some European elite who toys with supporting Trump/white nationalism, had to live in a trailer park, they would indeed feel differently.
pumpkinperson has never justified anti-black violence.
The most race-pride type stuff on here came from that JS guy, who would insist any smart black MUST have North East Asian ancestry.
*Attacked* the protesters, they responded in self-defense.
That didn’t make much sense. Lol.
“Teenage maturity and IQ, I would suspect do not correlate completley.
Plus, IQ is not the only factor in personality, lifelong.”
You’re basically agreeing with me when I say that “intelligence” without guidance means nothing and thus, good genes without a good environment are of little help.
So…he would still need to protect his higher-IQ kid, but probably less than his lower-IQ sibling.
I guess that follow-up to the large post wasn’t neccessary. They basically mean the same thing.
Pumpkin Person is not an honest man, he lets commenters saying things that would give his blog a bad reputation.
But he never rebutes any stupid intolerant comment, he actually provokes them. The only thing that lead to contradiction on this blog is refuting HBD.
Pumpkin person is subtle and justify every inequality and violence in this world by trying to explain them with IQ and genes. Do you remember his post when he invented an historicaly absurd hypothesis on why Africans were enslaved in America instead of the natives ? He never mentioned or denounced the Amerindian extermination and the cruelty of African slavery, he just invented a pseudo theory mostly based on fiction to justify African slavery based.
You really don’t need to say nigger to mean nigger.
Upon further reflection, that was not quite my favorite post he’s done, I think he was actually unfair to Blacks/Africans, attributing their failure at escaping to low-IQ (they were intimidated, and in a new land).
He believes in, an old concept, the obligation of the Nobel, to the less intelligent people, or who they see as such. I would hope that he would not wish violence on them.
Please note, although he did not denounce the killing of Native Americans, some commenters discussed it, denouncing it.
It is, as he would put, the bullying of a less powerful race. He, I would assume, based on the way that he con notates it, that he would denounce it.
“So…he would still need to protect his higher-IQ kid, but probably less than his lower-IQ sibling.”
That depends on their behavior and many other personality traits.
For instance, I read somewhere that “intelligent” people tend to resent unfairness more than average people, that’s a real problem in life and a major cause of anger and bitterness and that leads to destructive behaviors.
When I become a parent, the IQ of my children is probably the last thing I would care about. My only goal for them would be to make them feel good about their life and make sure they won’t regret the things they do.
I’m upset because of hate, whatever kind of hate whether it is HBD, antisemitism, islamism. It’s the same mental disorder whose manifestations varry according to the cultural background of the hater.
HBD is not hate. It’s the scientific study of human differences in behavior.
You see, if Pumpkin Person had been raised in a European Ghetto, he would have supported the attacks.
Just the opposite. I’m calm and rational and seldom let emotions get the better of me. You on the other hand are the one full of political rage. You are the one who can’t tolerate dissenting opinions and feel the need to personally attack those you disagree with in the most vicious and aggressive ways.
To summarize Pumpkin Person’s violence, I would say that it consists in explaining the evils of history and society as part of a natural genetic order of things.
What’s really violent and hateful in that is that it is not backed by true facts but on extremely biased theories (often 100% fictional) that you can only believe if you have prejudice and hatred in your heart.
That’s why Pumpkin Person can’t fool me when he says “I’m not a racist or this or that”.
“HBD is not hate. It’s the scientific study of human differences in behavior.”
HBD is a pseudo-science that has studied and discovered nothing at all. It has only attempted and failed to use science to give substance to old politacaly motivated stereotypes.
At the same time, science has even disproved the core concepts of HBD: races as genetic ramifications of mankind, genes and biology as unresponsive to environment.
From what I understand, the scientific evidence of races not existing was based in research using mt-DNA and Y-DNA research, where the lines of race were so vague as to be non-existent. However, by definition autosomal DNA tests performed later are more accurate, and showed otherwise.
Pumpkin Person is not an honest man, he lets commenters saying things that would give his blog a bad reputation.
But he never rebutes any stupid intolerant comment, he actually provokes them. The only thing that lead to contradiction on this blog is refuting HBD.
Just the opposite. I am one of the most tolerant and open HBD bloggers you’ll find and I’m one of the few HBD bloggers who allows aggressively anti-HBD people like you to even post. And I often allow anti-HBD comments to be posted UN-CHALLENED, unless I’m personally attacked, in which case I’m tempted to respond.
Not only do I allow anti-HBD commenters like yourself to have complete free speech with no comment moderation whatsoever, but I have even devoted posts to anti-HBD arguments myself such as norms of reaction.
Pumpkin person is subtle and justify every inequality and violence in this world by trying to explain them with IQ and genes. Do you remember his post when he invented an historicaly absurd hypothesis on why Africans were enslaved in America instead of the natives ? He never mentioned or denounced the Amerindian extermination and the cruelty of African slavery, he just invented a pseudo theory mostly based on fiction to justify African slavery based.
There are already millions of people denouncing slavery and extermination. The role of this blog is to give the HBD interpretation of events. HBD is never a justification for cruelty.
I go out of my way to be balanced and fair, and I have highlighted the brilliance and achievements of many black luminaries, from Obama to Jay Z to Oprah!
However if you still don’t think this blog is fair, I would be honored to have an educated intelligent person like you write a guest post, outlining your criticisms of HBD, as long as you’d be willing to do so in a way that doesn’t demonize HBDers
This even if his school performance and social interaction are not that worrisome ?
Yes, I would still worry because low IQ has a way of catching up with one when they least expect it.
And what about your higher IQ child ? Would you let him free of supervision, believing that his IQ will naturally lead him to make good decisions and behave appropriately ?
No, because IQ doesn’t guarantee success. It just increases the odds. And if he or she had a lot of potential, I would want the child to reach it, though potential comes in more forms than just IQ.
“Not only do I allow anti-HBD commenters like yourself to have complete free speech with no comment moderation whatsoever, but I have even devoted posts to anti-HBD arguments myself such as norms of reactions.”
I’ve been a free commenter and co-author on Robert Lindsay’s blog, a censorship-addict, I comment freely now and then on Jayman, UNZ, or Jason Malloy. You’re no less or more tolerant than the others except for Lindsay who is psycho.
“There are already millions of people denouncing slavery and extermination. The role of this blog is to give the HBD interpretation of events. HBD is never a justification for cruelty.”
But we don’t need the HBD interpretation of the world, not more than we do need the islamist one. If people want to understand things, there are thousands of history, sociology or even psychology and anthropology books that follow rigorous methodology, which are based on observation of the real world and in which you really learn things instead of confirming stereotypes giving a rational basis to the evils that accompained and still accompain them.
Have you ever wondered why isn’t every educated and lucid person an HBDer ?
“I go out of my way to be balanced and fair, and I have highlighted the brilliance and achievements of many black luminaries, from Obama to Jay Z to Oprah!”
No, that’s dishonest. Because you always mention their race to judge their achievments. They are just succesful human beings.
“However if you still don’t think this blog is fair, I would be honored to have an educated intelligent person like you write a guest post,”
No, thank you.
“However, by definition autosomal DNA tests performed later are more accurate, and showed otherwise.”
The current consensus on genetic and race and genetics is that
1- Variation between continental or subcontinental ancestries constitutes a small share of global human genetic variation which mostly occures within groups.
2- Allele frequencies varry according to ancestry and some genetic markers are useful to safely predict one’s race. Especialy Alleles that are linked to regional adaptive phenotypes.
3- No genetic marker is both common and exclusive to the members of any race
Hence, race doesn’t exist as a genetic reality.
I’ve been a free commenter and co-author on Robert Lindsay’s blog,
But you’re banned from there now.
a censorship-addict, I comment freely now and then on Jayman, UNZ,
But all your comments have to be pre-approved before they show up (at least on some of the unz blogs, don’t know about JayMan’s unz blog) This is one of the few HBD blogs that you can post freely and instantaneously.
No, thank you.
LOL! I’m not a man who hears the word no a lot. I admire your chutzpah 🙂
Lindsay is psycho, his choice to make me a co-author is as stupid as his decision to ban me.
On another topic, do your relatives know about your blog and opinions ? Is your blog related to your break-up too ?
No, that’s dishonest. Because you always mention their race to judge their achievments. They are just succesful human beings.
They’re proud of their race. They want it mentioned. Obama’s proud to be America’s first black president. Oprah’s proud to be North America’s first multi-billionaire black.
Maybe it’s different in France where racial classifications are taboo. In North America race is taboo as a biological classification but it’s embraced as a social classification
Cultural attitudes toward race are one thing, scientific methodology another.
If you have scientific pretentions, you must separate the two and exclude the notion of race in your posts because it is cultural, not scientific.
On another topic, do your relatives know about your blog and opinions ? Is your blog related to your break-up too ?
She doesn’t know about it and neither does my family. They, like most university educated Canadians, believe the conventional wisdom: race does not exist, or if it does, it has nothing to do with intelligence.
Of course, this blog is not only or even primarily related to race. Race is just one of many variables correlated with IQ for whatever reason. Other variables are income, education, religion, head size, political views, media preferences, height, weight/height ratio, etc:
https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/05/17/revised-formula-for-estimating-iq-from-bio-demographics/
So race is just one IQ correlate out of many. People just get more sensitive about race because of how the concept (whether social or biological) has been abused in the past, and I would argue, because of ethnic genetic interests:
https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/08/02/w-d-hamilton-believed-in-ethnic-genetic-interests/
https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/08/04/ethnic-genetic-interests-a-simplified-version/
If IQ weren’t correlated with race, psychometrics and HBD would not be controversial at all.
In fact, IQ and race are not correlated. In attempting to explain the US Black/US White IQ gap, studies of admixture, genetic similarity and claimed genealogy have showed that no European ancestry gave higher IQ in African-Americans. Only skin color correlated .15 with IQ, which is small and can be entirely explained in terms of social and historical advantage of lighter skin.
Outside of the US, various ethnic and social groups of the same “race” score quite differently from each other and across time.
HBD only exists because the Pioneer Fund clique decided to cherry-pick (and create) data in order to support their pre-established conclusions. They also invented unsupported backing theories to try to hide the most obvious flaws and incoherences of their theories.
Psychometrics are criticized because of their limitations, the invalidity as a proper scientific measurment of anything more than one’s punctual succes or failiure on a given test.
The Psychometrics-Genetics link is criticized because no genes have conclusively been related to IQ whereas various environmental forces have. Moreover, without mentioning race, eugenics remain a crime against humanities, genetic manipulation of mankind is a terrific prospect and biologic determinism is a hopeless ideology that is only supported by neocons and fascists who want selfishness to prevail when altruism is the cost of civilization.
For all these reasons, someone who says HBD is no big deal, that it’s just fun or that it is rejected because people are sensitive and idealist; hasn’t understand anything of the reality of the and is an ideologue of hatred.
Only skin color correlated .15 with IQ, which is small and can be entirely explained in terms of social and historical advantage of lighter skin.
I believe Richard Lynn found a 0.17 correlation between light skin and IQ in a representative sample of 430 African American adults. The correlation is not that small when you consider that skin colour was crudely measured through self-rating, and IQ was crudely measured through a ten-word vocabulary test, and the study suffered from range restriction because non-blacks were excluded. If a sample of all Americans were used, if a better IQ test were used, and if skin color were measured by colorimetrics, a much higher correlation would likely have been found.
Outside of the US, various ethnic and social groups of the same “race” score quite differently from each other and across time.
The IQ-skin color correlation is worldwide:
The Psychometrics-Genetics link is criticized because no genes have conclusively been related to IQ whereas various environmental forces have.
Only recently has the failure to find genes emerged as a criticism. The heritability of IQ has been wildly controversial for many decades.
“I believe Richard Lynn found a 0.17 correlation between light skin and IQ in a representative sample of 430 African American adults. The correlation is not that small when you consider that skin colour was crudely measured through self-rating, and IQ was crudely measured through a ten-word vocabulary test, and the study suffered from range restriction because non-blacks were excluded. If a sample of all Americans were used, if a better IQ test were used, and if skin color were measured by colorimetrics, a much higher correlation would likely have been found.”
First of all, Lynn didn’t find anything, he cited one study, whose results weren’t replicated and whose authors concluded that skin color had no biological implications with respect to IQ. Non-Blacks had to be excluded of the study as a measure of stratification. The aim was to find whether white admixture caused higher IQ in blacks, skin color (thought to be the most observable sign of ancestry) showed to have little effect whereas genetic afinity with Europeans showed to have no effect whatsoever on African American IQ. This only closes the debate for those who believe in scientific method.
Skin color only has social implications because of it is the result of tanning or lack thereof and indicates wether people spend time outdoors or indoors. In post-colonial societies, it is a sign of white admixture which carries social and cultural privilege.
“The IQ-skin color correlation is worldwide”
Which explains why the Taiwanese, on average, have lower IQs than Russians. Are we OK with that ?
More seriously, in Britain, black Africans have higher IQs the Mixed race Britons, Black Caribbeans, Romas or Irish travellers. How do you make sense of it ? Oh yeah you have your selection thing, which is BS since the African migrants in Europe are not elite, they even have relatives who are humble village dwellers. An Elite African would have no interest in living elsewhere in the world when he can live like a royal in his own country, with mansions, servants and an exceptional bribery power.
“Only recently has the failure to find genes emerged as a criticism.”
Hereditarians promised that once we have the ability to explore the human genome, we could quickly find the genes that control behavioral traits. A couple of decades after, nothing showed up. That added a new reason to criticize the hereditarian theory: It still lacks the direct proof of its claim. Environmentalists on the other hand have multiple replicated findings of how environmental forces have influence on IQ.
You will say “Twin studies, blah, blah, blah”. The high correlations you like to bring up are only caused by the interaction of genes and pre-natal and neo-natal environment. Which allowed the Flynn effect to occure as an inter-generational phenomenon without any genetic mutations.
And last but not least, look at your sources. Richard Lynn, the president of a neo-nazi organization, the Pioneer fund. Just as neutral as the edicts of a fundamuntalist Immam. I won’t even bother mentioning Templer, an academic midget, “sombre crétin”. And are you aware that one article you shared was hosted by a Norwegian Neo-Fascist movement ?
Will you tell me again that HBD has nothing to do with hate ? Come on…
First of all, Lynn didn’t find anything, he cited one study, whose results weren’t replicated
It has been replicated in the sense that blacks in the Minnesota transracial adoption study who had white biological mothers scored higher than blacks with two black biological parents.
and whose authors concluded that skin color had no biological implications with respect to IQ.
Scientists have to say that or they are labeled racists and become pariahs.
Non-Blacks had to be excluded of the study as a measure of stratification. The aim was to find whether white admixture caused higher IQ in blacks, skin color (thought to be the most observable sign of ancestry) showed to have little effect whereas genetic afinity with Europeans showed to have no effect whatsoever on African American IQ.
I understand, but the mathematical nature of a correlation coefficient is such that it will tend to be very small if there is limited variation. Trying to find a correlation between IQ and color in a sample where everyone is colored is like trying to find a correlation between height & basketball performance in the NBA, where virtually everyone is tall. It’s never going to come out high and that’s expected apriori.
Further, the measure of skin color was not great.
A way to sidestep the range restriction problems in correlation studies is to look at the extremes.
However skin color and ancestry studies are not conclusive because some HBDers might argue that there has been selective mating patterns such that historically the least intelligent whites mated with blacks. And HBD deniers could argue that if light skinned blacks score higher, it’s because of social privilege not genes.
Which explains why the Taiwanese, on average, have lower IQs than Russians. Are we OK with that ?
Almost any hypothesis in science can be countered by focusing on subsets of data. But the totality of data shows worldwide there’s a huge ecological correlation between IQ and skin color. HBD offers a simple elegant explanation: colder climates selected for both lighter skin and more IQ. Is it proven? No. Is it the best hypothesis we currently have? Yes. However even the best hypothesis can be wrong so I try to keep an open mind.
More seriously, in Britain, black Africans have higher IQs the Mixed race Britons, Black Caribbeans, Romas or Irish travellers. How do you make sense of it ? Oh yeah you have your selection thing, which is BS since the African migrants in Europe are not elite, they even have relatives who are humble village dwellers.
If you look at the education of the black African immigrants whose teenaged children and grandchildren are doing well on British IQ tests, they appear to be way above the mean for Africans.
Hereditarians promised that once we have the ability to explore the human genome, we could quickly find the genes that control behavioral traits. A couple of decades after, nothing showed up.
And astronomers thought that once they had a space program, they’d find evidence of life on other planets. A couple decades after, nothing showed up. Yet most astronomers still think there is life on other planets, and most behavioral geneticists believe there are genes for intelligence.
And it’s a bit of an exaggeration to saying nothing showed up. They’ve found genes for Alzheimer’s which is related to even pre-morbid intelligence and certain genetic diseases in Ashkenazi Jews such as Tay-sachs and Gaucher have been linked to IQ. Further, genome-wide complex trait analysis consistently shows IQ has a substantial genetic component. Of course as chartreuse notes, GCTA studies have yet to identify independent genetic effects, but independent genetic effects are seldom found for any trait, not IQ only.
Environmentalists on the other hand have multiple replicated findings of how environmental forces have influence on IQ.
The social environment can certainly influence IQ scores, but there’s almost no evidence it can influence real intelligence, except in the most extreme pathological cases. The biological environment, however, can indeed affect real intelligence.
You will say “Twin studies, blah, blah, blah”. The high correlations you like to bring up are only caused by the interaction of genes and pre-natal and neo-natal environment.
Citation?
Will you tell me again that HBD has nothing to do with hate ? Come on…
I would guess that a lot of prominent HBDers were indeed racists, but that’s largely because the social and psychological costs for pursuing such research is so extreme, that you have to be really driven to make a career out of it. Racists have the required motivation.
However there is nothing intrinsically hateful about HBD. Indeed if HBDers are right, knowledge of HBD could do unbelievable good for blacks.
I’m gonna answer your comment later on when I have more time. For now, I’d like to know your thoughts on epigenetics as explained on these videos:
not kidding.
peepee is a south asian female who identifies as male.
her fiancee dumped her when they had sex with the light on, and her finacee saw that peepee was wearing a black strap on.
she’s the dravidian version of chaz bono.
For now, I’d like to know your thoughts on epigenetics as explained on these videos:
Thanks for the videos. It’s 2 am here so I must get some sleep, but I’ll try to listen as I doze off, and respond tomorrow afternoon.
Afrosapiens, Greg Cochran had an interesting discussion about epigenetics. It starts at the 13 minute mark and again at the 18 minute mark of the below video:
Cochran argues that there’s no evidence that what we learn can be transmitted genetically and it would be exceedingly implausible for that to happen.
No one in the audience had a strong rebuttal.
Cochran does however believe that experiences like starvation at least have a plausible mechanism for epigenetic inheritance.
I think I asked for your thoughts, not Cochran’s whose insight could have been valuable, had he been a specialist. The only thing I see in this video is a layman rejecting true scientific findings without any evenly scientifically reliable counter-argument.
My point in mentioning epigenetics was to show that environment not only had effect on various traits regardless of biologic variables but it could also create or modify the patterns of heritability of these traits in a very short time.
I’m actually disapointed. I thought we could have a long and interesting conversation on that topic or that you would even post something about epigenetics. But it seems that your opinion is that the whole thing doesn’t exists or is mostly unsignificant. In the real world however, epigenetics is one of the fastest growing field in the specialist community.
In the real world however, epigenetics is one of the fastest growing field in the specialist
Can you cite a specialist who believes IQ can be passed on through epigenetic inheritance?
Here is a very long piece summarizing the main findings on the heritability of IQ.
Good. I hope people read it. I want people to hear both sides of the argument. But for the record, the author has been criticized for embracing pseudoscience:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mae-Wan_Ho
Well, she defends homeopathy and traditional Chinese medicine. That doesn’t imply serious bias in her research on genetics, a field in which she is a specialist. Much more reliable than HBD which is led by even more biased non specialists.
Believing there are no genes for intelligence is even much more pseudoscientific than homeopathy. That is WACKO!
The most an intelligent, rational, educated person can claim is that instead of IQ between 80% heritable, as Jensen had claimed, it’s perhaps only 40% heritable. But to imply there are zero genes for intelligence? That’s just psycho.
“But to imply there are zero genes for intelligence? That’s just psycho.”
No, this is rather reasonable since:
1- These genes have not yet been found and will never be
2- IQ is probably not heritable at all
No, this is rather reasonable since:
1- These genes have not yet been found and will never be
Wrong. Alzheimer’s genes are genes for intelligence and they’ve been found. Genetic diseases like Tay Sachs and Gauchers have been linked to high IQ.
2- IQ is probably not heritable at all
Bot twin studies and genome wide complex trait analysis show IQ is highly heritable, at least within local populations (the only ones that have been studied).
“Genetic diseases like Tay Sachs and Gauchers have been linked to high IQ.”
Oh yes, that explains why French Canadians, Cajuns and the Irish have above average IQ scores. Tay- Sachs disease is not an exclusively Ashkenazi condition. Now with respect to Gaucher’s disease I’ve been unable to find your sources.
https://scholar.google.fr/scholar?hl=en&q=gaucher%27s+genes+iq&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=
“Bot twin studies and genome wide complex trait analysis show IQ is highly heritable, at least within local populations (the only ones that have been studied).”
I shared a link explaining how twin studies are flawed. And no, genome wide complex trait analysis have proven nothing, that’s even a great cause of disapointment.
Oh yes, that explains why French Canadians, Cajuns and the Irish have above average IQ scores. Tay- Sachs disease is not an exclusively Ashkenazi condition.
Perhaps 10,000 genes affect intelligence. It’s absurd to expect a single one, on its own, to explain group differences in IQ.
Now with respect to Gaucher’s disease I’ve been unable to find your sources.
Professor Ari Zimran, who heads the Gaucher Clinic at the Shaare Zedek Medical Centre in Jerusalem, furnished us a list of occupations of 302 Gaucher patients.
Because of the Israeli medical care system, these are essentially all the Gaucher patients in the country. Of the 255 patients who are not retired and not students, 81 are in occupations that ordinarily average IQ’s greater than 120. There are 13 academics, 23 engineers, 14 scientists, and 31 in other high IQ occupations like accountants, physicians, or lawyers. The government of Israel states that 1.35% of Israeli’s working age population are engineers or scientists, while in the Gaucher patient sample 37/255 or 15% are engineers or scientists.
I shared a link explaining how twin studies are flawed.
All scientific research is flawed.
And no, genome wide complex trait analysis have proven nothing, that’s even a great cause of disapointment.
Actually in local populations it explains half the variance in fluid IQ
http://infoproc.blogspot.ca/2011/08/intelligence-heritable-and-polygenic.html
“Perhaps 10,000 genes affect intelligence. It’s absurd to expect a single one, on its own, to explain group differences in IQ.”
10,000 ? Why not 13,000, 15,000 or 20,000 ? Oh yes, it’s absurd to think a single one explains group differences since none has been found. And you know, the larger the number, the weaker the probability that genes of intelligence are not equally distributed in the human population or have been influenced by natural selection.
Cochran’s theory is utter nonsense. Gaucher’s disease affects 1/15 of the Ashkenazi population (7%). Of these 7%, 15% have intellectually demanding occupations. So, Cochran’s trying to make people believe that since 1% of the Ashkenazi Israeli population is affected by Gaucher’s disease and happens to have prestigious occupations, the whole Ashkenazi population has a genetic advantage for intellectual performance. That makes no sense whatsoever.
“All scientific research is flawed.”
Hum, no.
“Actually in local populations it explains half the variance in fluid IQ”
This study is reasonably credible, however there is still one thing that make its findings difficult to extend to group difference. You know that thing and you hate it.
10,000 ? Why not 13,000, 15,000 or 20,000 ? Oh yes, it’s absurd to think a single one explains group differences since none has been found.
Well we have evidence from both twin studies & GCTA studies that IQ is mostly genetic within local Western populations, yet we haven’t found many specific genes. Thus the most reasonable conclusion at this point in time is that there are thousands of genes of small effect. 10,000 is just a very rough estimate.
And you know, the larger the number, the weaker the probability that genes of intelligence are not equally distributed in the human population or have been influenced by natural selection.
Well there are thousands of genes for height and it shows group differences and has been influenced by natural selection, although height and IQ are not perfectly analogous.
Cochran’s theory is utter nonsense. Gaucher’s disease affects 1/15 of the Ashkenazi population (7%). Of these 7%, 15% have intellectually demanding occupations. So, Cochran’s trying to make people believe that since 1% of the Ashkenazi Israeli population is affected by Gaucher’s disease and happens to have prestigious occupations, the whole Ashkenazi population has a genetic advantage for intellectual performance. That makes no sense whatsoever.
But keep in mind that if 15% of the Gaucher folks have IQ jobs, compared to 1% of the general population, that implies a 1 SD difference in job status. Given the 0.7 correlation between IQ and occupation, you’d expect Gaucher folks to have a mean IQ 1 SD/0.7 = 1.33 SD above the general population, for their job status to regress to +1 SD. And then you factor in that Gauchers is one of several such diseases Cochran believes enhance IQ in Ashkenazi populations.
I’m not convinced that the entire Jewish-Gentile IQ gap is caused by genes, but I think genes probably cause a big chunk of it.
But what HBD tells us is that any race could be as smart as Jews. Ashkenazem only became bright because their brightest elite disproportionately reproduced over a relatively short period of time. There are probably more blacks in the World with genetic IQs above 120 than Ashkenazi Jews, but many of the genetically smart blacks are held back by Third World conditions.
Hum, no.
Virtually every scientific study is flawed if you think critically enough.
This study is reasonably credible, however there is still one thing that make its findings difficult to extend to group difference. You know that thing and you hate it.
At least you’re now conceding IQ is substantially heritable. But you’re right: A genetic basis for IQ needn’t imply group differences are genetic, but given all the different ethnic groups, and the different selection pressures they’ve been exposed to for tens of thousands of years, and their different test scores, brain sizes, reaction times, and historical achievements, I think it’s very likely that some groups have a higher frequency of high IQ genes than others. But it doesn’t much matter, because everyone is an individual, and virtually the full range of genetic IQ exists within all the major races.
“Thus the most reasonable conclusion at this point in time is that there are thousands of genes of small effect. 10,000 is just a very rough estimate.”
This estimate is exaggeratedly high and so is HBDers’ perception of human genetic variation. Remember that humans are 99.5% genetically identical to each others. So based on the estimate of 10,000 genes involved in intelligence, only 50 may cause variation. Now if we consider between continental groups variation, it only accounts for 6% of all variation (3 genes). For HBD to be true, these three genes must have significant effects on intelligence instead of a minimal role.
“Well there are thousands of genes for height and it shows group differences and has been influenced by natural selection, although height and IQ are not perfectly analogous.”
Racial differences in height don’t exist. Natural selection forces that influence height can’t be the same as those pretended to have influenced on IQ. Speaking about internal organs, there are very few proofs, if any at all, that natural selection affected them in the way it did with external features resulting in race.
“But keep in mind that if 15% of the Gaucher folks have IQ jobs, compared to 1% of the general population, that implies a 1 SD difference in job status. ”
What would be meaningful is to compare Gaucher patients with non-Gaucher Ashkenazim. Because Israel has many Jewish communities that do not enjoy the advantageous cultural, historical and social background of Ashkenazim who are products of Western Civilization contrary to the Sepharadim, Yemenis, Ethiopians and others. It’s quite easy to make statistics to say what you want them to. But things need to be put in context, I mean human context.
“Virtually every scientific study is flawed if you think critically enough.”
Well, I don’t have enough authority to be critical toward most of the studies I read, When there are flaws, specialist reviews are there to expose them and the authors most often acknowledge them instead of stubbornly denying them and bringing the debate on an ideological terrain.
“At least you’re now conceding IQ is substantially heritable.”
Not exactly, I find this study credible and rigorous which is the case with many other studies that give opposite conclusions. I would need to read some specialist responses to make my mind about it.
“But it doesn’t much matter”
It does, as long as some societies and some ideologies pretend that the group one belongs to is more important or just as important as the individual he is, that will matter.
This estimate is exaggeratedly high and so is HBDers’ perception of human genetic variation. Remember that humans are 99.5% genetically identical to each others. So based on the estimate of 10,000 genes involved in intelligence, only 50 may cause variation. Now if we consider between continental groups variation, it only accounts for 6% of all variation (3 genes). For HBD to be true, these three genes must have significant effects on intelligence instead of a minimal role.
First of all, just because humans share 99.5% of their total genome, doesn’t necessarily mean they share 99.5% of their IQ genes, but let’s say they do.
A simple way to look at it is that humans and Neanderthals share 99.5% of their DNA, and diverged at least 450,000 years ago:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/18/opinion/18sat2.html?_r=0
Whites and blacks only diverged 70,000 years ago. 70,000 is only 15% of 450,000, so if a 450,000 year split caused a 0.5% difference, then a 70,000 year split probably caused a 0.075% difference (15% of 0.5%).
0.075% of 10,000 IQ genes is 75 genes. Stephen Pinker mentioned that each IQ gene likely only influences IQ by 0.2 points:
https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/03/15/nice-discussion-about-iq-genes/
0.2 multiplied by 75 genes equals a potential black-white genetic IQ gap of 15 points, which is actually the measured black-white IQ gap in the United States.
Racial differences in height don’t exist.
Yes they do. Whites are taller than East Asians. Bantus are taller than pygmies.
Speaking about internal organs, there are very few proofs, if any at all, that natural selection affected them in the way it did with external features resulting in race.
That’s because external features like skin colour are controlled by only a few genes so with a little natural selection, you get virtually 100% of whites being lighter than virtually 100% of blacks. By contrast, complex polygenetic traits are harder to select for so you get much more overlap between races. However that doesn’t mean there aren’t statistically significant differences:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/unofficial-prognosis/when-should-medicine-talk-about-race/
What would be meaningful is to compare Gaucher patients with non-Gaucher Ashkenazim. Because Israel has many Jewish communities that do not enjoy the advantageous cultural, historical and social background of Ashkenazim who are products of Western Civilization contrary to the Sepharadim, Yemenis, Ethiopians and others. It’s quite easy to make statistics to say what you want them to. But things need to be put in context, I mean human context.
Excellent point! If all the Gaucher patients were Ashkenazi Jews, then Cochran’s control group should have been Israel’s general Ashkenazi population, not its entire working age population. I’m sure Gaucher patients would still have been overrepresented among high IQ jobs, but perhaps to a much lesser degree. Someone should really look into this.
Well, I don’t have enough authority to be critical toward most of the studies I read, When there are flaws, specialist reviews are there to expose them and the authors most often acknowledge them instead of stubbornly denying them and bringing the debate on an ideological terrain.
There has to be an incentive for specialists to expose flaws. If for example, almost all the specialists in a field are funded by similar corporate interests (i.e. pharmaceutical companies) then few specialists will be brave enough to expose flaws in research saying a certain lucrative medical treatment is safe. In the field of behavioral genetics, ever since the second World War it’s been popular to oppose HBD, so a lot more specialists want to debunk it than support it.
It does, as long as some societies and some ideologies pretend that the group one belongs to is more important or just as important as the individual he is, that will matter.
There’s no doubt HBD can be used to justify racism, though ironically, a lot of HBDers are anti-Semitic, even though HBD says that Ashkenazi Jews are genetically smarter, which just goes to show that ethnic tension will persist no matter what one’s science claims to show. On the other hand if HBD is true, we could eliminate racial IQ gaps in one generation simply by encouraging the brightest blacks to have lots of kids, and thus eliminate an enormous amount of inequality and suffering. So ironically, the “science” most demonized as racist, could actually do the most to cause equality in a global economy.
Your mathematics are really moronic and you know that.
First of all, Neanderthals and Humans never diverged from each others. They both diverged from one common ancestor, Neanderthals did so 450,000 years ago, Humans 200,000 years ago.
These early Homo Sapiens were more related to modern day Bushmen than to West Africans blacks who later spread southwards and eastwards during the Bantu migrations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans#/media/File:Spreading_homo_sapiens_la.svg
Europe was settled 40,000 years ago, not 70,000.
“Whites and blacks only diverged 70,000 years ago. 70,000 is only 15% of 450,000, so if a 450,000 year split caused a 0.5% difference, then a 70,000 year split probably caused a 0.075% difference (15% of 0.5%).
0.075% of 10,000 IQ genes is 75 genes. Stephen Pinker mentioned that each IQ gene likely only influences IQ by 0.2 points:
0.2 multiplied by 75 genes equals a potential black-white genetic IQ gap of 15 points, which is actually the measured black-white IQ gap in the United States.”
Look at something really absurd, Australia was settled 50,000 years ago. So that would mean that 53 IQ genes potentially cause a 10.6 IQ gap between the Bushmen and Australian Natives. But something even more stupid with your formula is that it implies that the later the split, the narrower the gap, tht if a new population had emerged 933 years ago, it’s genetic IQ gap with the ancestral african population would be 0.2 IQ points. That’s stupid.
“Yes they do. Whites are taller than East Asians. Bantus are taller than pygmies.”
Not really, Koreans and Taiwanese seem to approach South European Height, especially if we consider that older generations have grown up in worse environments than the Italians or French and also the fact that Asians are lactose-intolerant.
As far as Pygmies are concerned, their height is characteristic of many Rainforest indigenous populations in Africa, South-East Asia, Oceania and according to some fossils in Amazonia. It seems to be an adaptation to this specific environment, however their are no signs of other environments that select for height.
“By contrast, complex polygenetic traits are harder to select for so you get much more overlap between races.”
In the case of intelligence, you must realize that it is extremely hard to die from being dumb and that intelligence didn’t bring you that far in terms of survival before the developement of modern medicine and meritocracy. And I won’t even mention sexual selection which doesn’t seem to put much emphasis on intelligence, big brains don’t turn many people on. Moreover, humans are a social species, we don’t really need to be geniuses to pass our genes to the next generation since we rely a lot on others’ intelligence for everything that is not in our domain of competence.
Actually, the main difference between humans and most other beings is that we are not living and survival of the fittest scenario, we have no predators and live in interdependance with each others, even when there is hostility. In a behavioral perspective, another great difference between us and animals is that we almost have no instincts at all, our brains are mostly free of compulsive mechanism and that may leave room for thoughts and feelings.
“If all the Gaucher patients were Ashkenazi Jews, then Cochran’s control group should have been Israel’s general Ashkenazi population,”
Here’s a breakdown of Israel’s different communities
Ashkenazi Jews: 26%
Other Jews: 49%
Non-Jewish Arabs: 21%
Others: 4%
Ashkenazi Jews are only 1/4 of Israel’s population. Given their various historical advantages and their veneration of learning, it is really not implausible that they are at least ten times over-represented in highly skilled occupations no matter whether they are affected by Gaucher or not.
“There has to be an incentive for specialists to expose flaws.”
For genuine scientists, the advancement of knowledge is the only incentive.
“HBDers are anti-Semitic, even though HBD says that Ashkenazi Jews are genetically smarter,”
Oh yes, they concede that, along with them having all possible and imaginable vices in the world.
“we could eliminate racial IQ gaps in one generation simply by encouraging the brightest blacks to have lots of kids”
No intelligent person of any background will make more children than they can financially and emotionally afford for the sole sake of racial hygiene. On the oposite, what makes children doing better in life is having fewer siblings so that their parent’s financial, emotional and educational ressources are more concentrated on them. You know, the Flynn effect happend in an era of what Lynn would describe as dysgenic trends, middle and upper classes saw their fertility shrink while the poor often kept on having more children than they could afford, helped by generous welfare mechanisms that made any idea of survival of the fittest disappear.
Your mathematics are really moronic and you know that.
First of all, Neanderthals and Humans never diverged from each others. They both diverged from one common ancestor, Neanderthals did so 450,000 years ago, Humans 200,000 years ago.
You’re missing the point, the point being that they last shared a common ancestor 450,000 years ago, thus it took roughly 450,000 years for a 0.5% difference in the genome to emerge..
These early Homo Sapiens were more related to modern day Bushmen than to West Africans blacks who later spread southwards and eastwards during the Bantu migrations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans#/media/File:Spreading_homo_sapiens_la.svg
Europe was settled 40,000 years ago, not 70,000.
But the ancestors of modern Europeans split from the ancestors of modern Africans 70,000 years ago. Genetic differences begin accumulating the moment one population splits into two.
Look at something really absurd, Australia was settled 50,000 years ago. So that would mean that 53 IQ genes potentially cause a 10.6 IQ gap between the Bushmen and Australian Natives.
The key word is potentially. Genetic difference alone doesn’t prove IQ difference because it’s possible two populations had the same cognitive selection pressures, but your arguments was that there wasn’t even enough genetic distance for races to have have sizeable IQ gaps in the first place, and that argument is likely false.
But something even more stupid with your formula is that it implies that the later the split, the narrower the gap, tht if a new population had emerged 933 years ago, it’s genetic IQ gap with the ancestral african population would be 0.2 IQ points. That’s stupid.
Divergence time is just a rough estimate of genetic distance. In theory populations that split 900 years ago could be more different than populations that split 50,000 years ago, but it’s unlikely.
Not really, Koreans and Taiwanese seem to approach South European Height, especially if we consider that older generations have grown up in worse environments than the Italians or French and also the fact that Asians are lactose-intolerant.
Caucasian Americans are taller than Asian Americans even though they’re both Americans.
As far as Pygmies are concerned, their height is characteristic of many Rainforest indigenous populations in Africa, South-East Asia, Oceania and according to some fossils in Amazonia. It seems to be an adaptation to this specific environment, however their are no signs of other environments that select for height.
But you claimed there were no racial differences in height. That’s a racial difference in height.
In the case of intelligence, you must realize that it is extremely hard to die from being dumb
Nonsense
and that intelligence didn’t bring you that far in terms of survival before the developement of modern medicine and meritocracy.
Nonsense
And I won’t even mention sexual selection
You just did.
Moreover, humans are a social species, we don’t really need to be geniuses to pass our genes to the next generation since we rely a lot on others’ intelligence for everything that is not in our domain of competence.
At least someone in the tribe needs to be smart. The higher the average IQ of the tribe, the more likely the tribe will have someone smart enough to teach the rest. Low IQ tribes didn’t have those rare gifted individuals who taught the rest of the tribe how to build shelter and make clothes, and they had fewer people who could learn how to do so, even if they did. So when the first winter struck, dozens of tribes probably died out, leaving tribes with high IQ genes as the survivors. That just seems like common sense to me.
Ashkenazi Jews are only 1/4 of Israel’s population. Given their various historical advantages and their veneration of learning, it is really not implausible that they are at least ten times over-represented in highly skilled occupations no matter whether they are affected by Gaucher or not.
You might be right on this point. I just don’t have the data.
For genuine scientists, the advancement of knowledge is the only incentive.
Genuine scientists are not as common as you think.
No intelligent person of any background will make more children than they can financially and emotionally afford for the sole sake of racial hygiene.
But they could set up high IQ black sperm banks for single black women looking to be mothers. Governments could offer tax breaks to high IQ blacks who had children etc. There are a lot of ethical steps governments could take if they were genuinely interested in closing the black-white IQ gap.
“You’re missing the point, the point being that they last shared a common ancestor 450,000 years ago, thus it took roughly 450,000 years for a 0.5% difference in the genome to emerge..”
Whatever the point, the established fact is that continental ancestry accounts for only 6-7% of human genetic variation. Without proof of the contrary it must also account for 6-7% of variation in IQ-related genes. With such a small contribution of “race” to genetic variation, the genes that could cause between-group gaps are not numerous but need to have large effects especially if genetics account for only 40% to 60% of variation in intelligence, hence racial genetics would account for 2.8% to 4.2%.
“Genetic differences begin accumulating the moment one population splits into two.”
Adaptive genetic differences due to different selection pressures start when one population encounters a different environment from its source.
“but your arguments was that there wasn’t even enough genetic distance for races to have have sizeable IQ gaps in the first place, and that argument is likely false.”
There is certainly not enough genetic distance for racial gaps to be caused by a large number of genes of small effect. That could be possible with a classic mandelian model in which a limited number of genetic mutations cause large differences in phenotype as it’s the case with other adaptive traits.
“Caucasian Americans are taller than Asian Americans even though they’re both Americans.”
I don’t know what’s the height of American-born and raised Asian Americans, here in France I have a couple of adopted Asian friends from Korea and they are just average. However I’m not implying hat my personal experience provides a representative sample. In the link below, an Asian American student in Biology discusses the subject and share his hypotheses as to why Asian Americans are taller than Asians in Asia.
http://www.8asians.com/2011/08/15/height-differentials-between-eastern-and-western-born-asians/
“But you claimed there were no racial differences in height. That’s a racial difference in height.”
Yes I did that and it was a mistake, I should have specified that these differences do not exist outside of the environments that select for height.
“You just did.”
That’s a rhetorical technique that is pretty common in French, it means that the argument is so obvious that it shouldn’t be mentionned if your audience is smart enough.
“So when the first winter struck, dozens of tribes probably died out, leaving tribes with high IQ genes as the survivors. That just seems like common sense to me.”
Winter doesn’t come overnight, people have the whole autumn to find solutions to protect themselves against gradually decreasing temperatures. But what did pre-historic clothing and sheltering really consisted in ? Cro-magnons lived in caves and wore animal skin, fire was invented thousands of years before by homo erectus and there is no evidence that clothing and sheltering was invented out of Africa. I really don’t think that protection against cold or any climatic condition (like heavy tropical rainfall) requires really advanced cognition.
The only thing I could think as something that could cause selection for intelligence is drought, since humans can’t live more than a couple of days without drinking water under the burning tropical heat, the inabality to find and manage water during the 6 months long tropical dry season and the even more severe tropical drought during the ice-age should have been much more serious selection pressures than winter.
“Genuine scientists are not as common as you think.”
Ok, science sucks so let’s embrace pseudoscience. Good mentality.
“There are a lot of ethical steps governments could take if they were genuinely interested in closing the black-white IQ gap.”
Few people care or are even aware of this gap and many more realistic and reasonable things have to be done in order to adress socio-economic disparities, and many things have actually improved a lot, including the IQ gap which is now 9 or 10 and not 15.
“
Whatever the point, the established fact is that continental ancestry accounts for only 6-7% of human genetic variation. Without proof of the contrary it must also account for 6-7% of variation in IQ-related genes.
The relevant number is how genetically similar is the average white to the average black, not how much of human variation is explained by race.
According to this source:
Since 1972 other researchers have confirmed that 85 per cent of variation exists within a population. The results of a 2002 study by Noah Rosenberg and his colleagues were even more striking. They showed that differences among individuals account for a staggering 93-95 percent of all genetic variation. About 2 per cent is taken up by differences between populations within a race. And race accounts for just 3-5 per cent of all human difference. The study also found that almost half of the alleles appeared in every major population in the world. Only 7.4 per cent of alleles were exclusive to one region, and such alleles tended to be very rare. Rosenberg’s study is the largest of its kind and hence the figures are likely to be the most accurate.
https://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2012/03/04/why-both-sides-are-wrong-in-the-race-debate/
If 7.4% of alleles are exclusive to a certain race or ethnicity, that’s potentially 7.4% of the 10,000 positive variants for IQ: 740. It’s believed that only roughly 100 are needed to raise IQ 15 points:
http://nautil.us/issue/18/genius/super_intelligent-humans-are-coming .
Adaptive genetic differences due to different selection pressures start when one population encounters a different environment from its source.
Proto-whites encountered a different environment since they left Africa and entered the Middle East 70,000 years ago.
I don’t know what’s the height of American-born and raised Asian Americans, here in France I have a couple of adopted Asian friends from Korea and they are just average. However I’m not implying hat my personal experience provides a representative sample. In the link below, an Asian American student in Biology discusses the subject and share his hypotheses as to why Asian Americans are taller than Asians in Asia.
Rushton’s huge military sample showed big racial differences in height among American military:
Yes I did that and it was a mistake, I should have specified that these differences do not exist outside of the environments that select for height.
So you should now agree that traits influenced by 10,000 genes can differ between races or ethnic groups.
That’s a rhetorical technique that is pretty common in French, it means that the argument is so obvious that it shouldn’t be mentionned if your audience is smart enough.
It’s common in English too, I was just being a jerk 🙂
Winter doesn’t come overnight, people have the whole autumn to find solutions to protect themselves against gradually decreasing temperatures. But what did pre-historic clothing and sheltering really consisted in ? Cro-magnons lived in caves and wore animal skin, fire was invented thousands of years before by homo erectus and there is no evidence that clothing and sheltering was invented out of Africa. I really don’t think that protection against cold or any climatic condition (like heavy tropical rainfall) requires really advanced cognition.
But if the people who were able to adapt in time, were on average, 10 points smarter than those who froze to death, it’s plausible that after many generations, the average IQ increased by 15-20 genetic points.
The only thing I could think as something that could cause selection for intelligence is drought, since humans can’t live more than a couple of days without drinking water under the burning tropical heat,
Humans can’t live more than a few hours exposed in the freezing cold.
the inabality to find and manage water during the 6 months long tropical dry season and the even more severe tropical drought during the ice-age should have been much more serious selection pressures than winter.
Even if that’s true, primates have had millions of years to figure out how to adapt to Africa, so by 70,000 years ago, I doubt it was still that cognitive challenging. By contrast, going from the burning heat to the freezing cold was a completely new challenge, and thus would have favoured the brightest.
Ok, science sucks so let’s embrace pseudoscience. Good mentality.
Most scientists in the field actually secretly agree with me:
http://drjamesthompson.blogspot.ca/2016/03/what-intelligence-researchers-think.html
Few people care or are even aware of this gap and many more realistic and reasonable things have to be done in order to adress socio-economic disparities, and many things have actually improved a lot, including the IQ gap which is now 9 or 10 and not 15.
I think the gap is still roughly 15 points, so many more realistic and reasonable things apparently aren’t or can’t be done:
“The relevant number is how genetically similar is the average white to the average black, not how much of human variation is explained by race.”
The average white is about 99.5% similar to the average black, eskimo or papuan.
“Since 1972 other researchers have confirmed that 85 per cent of variation exists within a population. The results of a 2002 study by Noah Rosenberg and his colleagues were even more striking. They showed that differences among individuals account for a staggering 93-95 percent of all genetic variation. About 2 per cent is taken up by differences between populations within a race. And race accounts for just 3-5 per cent of all human difference. The study also found that almost half of the alleles appeared in every major population in the world. Only 7.4 per cent of alleles were exclusive to one region, and such alleles tended to be very rare. Rosenberg’s study is the largest of its kind and hence the figures are likely to be the most accurate.”
I have a completely different reading of this citation. The percentages mentioned here focus on the 0.5% genes that express allelic variation and race accounts for 3-5% of these 0.5%. Then half of the alleles are distributed among every race, 7.4% are race specific but have low frequencies (the article says they are very rare) in the concerned populations and the remainder is present in more than one race but is absent in some others.
“If 7.4% of alleles are exclusive to a certain race or ethnicity, that’s potentially 7.4% of the 10,000 positive variants for IQ: 740.
it is 7,4% of 0,5% of 10,000 genes, which makes 3.7 variants which are said to have rare frequencies in the affected populations. And I could even go further to say that only 5% of genetic variants are thought to be functional and do result in a phenotype.
“It’s believed that only roughly 100 are needed to raise IQ 15 points:”
Only you and some other mongrels believe that.
“But if the people who were able to adapt in time, were on average, 10 points smarter than those who froze to death,”
I would rather think that people who are unable to find something to protect themselves against cold temperature in less than one month have “negative” IQs. More realistically, protective clothing and sheltering existed before exposure to cold but was instead developed in response to rainfall.
“Even if that’s true, primates have had millions of years to figure out how to adapt to Africa, so by 70,000 years ago, I doubt it was still that cognitive challenging.”
Earlier hominids adapted to Eurasia just as well and did not evolve into something more intelligent than African Homo sapiens.
“Most scientists in the field actually secretly agree with me”
You mean some psychologists. No neuroscientist, no geneticist.
By the way, I read one comment in which you claimed intelligence was more like height than muscles. So I’d like to introduce you to some new scientific fields you may not be aware of their existence.
The first one is neuroplasticity which basicially investigates the ways the brain changes according to the use we made of it or in response of injuries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity
I’m gonna be fair and give you some think you’ll like to read, neurogenetics, the scientific version of behavioral genetics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenetics
“I think the gap is still roughly 15 points, so many more realistic and reasonable things apparently aren’t or can’t be done:”
Rushton and Jensen think (thought 🙂 ) and so do you. Most reliable researsh shows the gap is not anymore what it used to be, so is the educational and socio-economic gap. That’s for the USA, here in Europe, we are approaching a situation of quasi socio-economic and educational equality with many darker skinned, kinkier haired, flatter nosed, fuller lipped non-white, non-jewish and non-east asian groups.
I have a completely different reading of this citation.
It doesn’t matter because we both now agree that races differ in height which means we both agree that it’s possible for races to differ on a trait caused by an estimated 10,000 genes.
So our main disagreement is whether there were enough selection pressures for sizeable (1 SD) race differences to evolve. I think cold winters provided more than sufficient selection pressure, while you disagree.
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on that point because there’s no way to resolve it without doing an expensive experiment.
You mean some psychologists. No neuroscientist, no geneticist.
I mean the majority of scientists who actually work in the field of individual differences in intelligence. And I bet tons of neuroscientists and geneticists secretly believe in HBD, but feign politically correct views to keep their jobs and status, and gullible people believe them.
By the way, I read one comment in which you claimed intelligence was more like height than muscles. So I’d like to introduce you to some new scientific fields you may not be aware of their existence.
Huge sums of money has been spent trying to raise intelligence. Virtually nothing has worked, thus I think intelligence is more like height than muscle.
Most reliable researsh shows the gap is not anymore what it used to be, so is the educational and socio-economic gap. That’s for the USA
The most reliably normed IQ tests are the Wechsler scales. On the WAIS-III (the second most recent edition, normed in the mid 1990s) Caucasian Americans averaged 102.1 with an SD of 14.6 and African Americans averaged 87.8 with an SD of 10.7.
If we convert that to white norms (i.e. norms where the white mean and SD is set at 100 and 15 respectively, as per historical standards), then blacks average 85, which is about what they’ve averaged on white norms since the first mass testing in WWI. So there’s been virtually no change over the entire 20th century.
Now I don’t know what the black-white IQ gap is on the very latest version of the WAIS (the WAIS-IV) which was normed circa 2006, but I suspect it’s similar
here in Europe, we are approaching a situation of quasi socio-economic and educational equality with many darker skinned, kinkier haired, flatter nosed, fuller lipped non-white, non-jewish and non-east asian groups.
I’ve looked into that in the UK, and it appears to be because of selective immigration, at least there.
When will we get the first study to turn the tables? Can we get a study where europeans outperform east asians? Europeans can’t blame it on environment can they?
“It doesn’t matter because we both now agree that races differ in height which means we both agree that it’s possible for races to differ on a trait caused by an estimated 10,000 genes.”
I agree that the rainforest environment selected for shorter statures, the genetic basis of this adaptation is known and doesn’t involve thousands of genes of small effect each:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/244714.php?trendmd-shared=1
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/08/140818-pygmy-phenotype-africa-short-dna-genetics-science/
The size of pygmies is caused by two genes whose function is to regulate growth hormone activation. It results in a clearly separate and homogenous phenotype that doesn’t overlap with other groups’ phenotypes. On the contrary, highly polygenic traits are are sign of low natural selection and cause more variation within than between groups.
As far as East Asians are concerned, I completely disagree that their height is part of their adaptive phenotype. There is a large degree of variation within East Asian ethnic groups, between East Asian ethnic groups and a significant degree of overlaping with non-East Asian Ethnic groups.
“I mean the majority of scientists who actually work in the field of individual differences in intelligence.”
And what a field. A discipline that has made no important findings ever since it was created, a discipline that mostly produces unreplicable studies, and more importantly: a discipline that has almost found no practical use in the real world. Am I supposed to care about what the specialists of this field “secretly” believe ?
“And I bet tons of neuroscientists and geneticists secretly believe in HBD, but feign politically correct views to keep their jobs and status, and gullible people believe them.”
The most important thing they have to lose if they embrace the pseudoscience of HBD is their scientific credibility. Actually, I don’t even know how someone who knows how stuff works in genetics, neuroscience and biology could suddenly believe HBD’s tales.
“The most reliably normed IQ tests are the Wechsler scales. On the WAIS-III (the second most recent edition, normed in the mid 1990s) Caucasian Americans averaged 102.1 with an SD of 14.6 and African Americans averaged 87.8 with an SD of 10.7.”
There is one paper by Flynn whose findings have been replicated multiple times that says the gap is no longer 15.
“I’ve looked into that in the UK, and it appears to be because of selective immigration, at least there.”
In Europe, many people from the middle east and Africa come as illegals or refugees. During the 1950s and 1960s, many were also hired as factory workers when the economy was booming and then brought their wives and children. In France, people move freely between the Caribbean departements, La Réunion and the mainland. All these people who make the bulk of the the African, Caribbean and Middle Eastern population of Europe were no way as selected as the Chinese in Europe or America. And if we apply HBD’s argument of selective immigration to the Chinese, their mean IQs should be in the 120s if genetic selection played any role in migrant communities’ Average in the West.
I agree that the rainforest environment selected for shorter statures, the genetic basis of this adaptation is known and doesn’t involve thousands of genes of small effect each:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/244714.php?trendmd-shared=1
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/08/140818-pygmy-phenotype-africa-short-dna-genetics-science/
The size of pygmies is caused by two genes whose function is to regulate growth hormone activation.
But within races, height is caused by thousands of genes. What this shows is that a trait that is caused by thousands of genes within populations, can be caused by just a few genes between populations.
As far as East Asians are concerned, I completely disagree that their height is part of their adaptive phenotype. There is a large degree of variation within East Asian ethnic groups, between East Asian ethnic groups and a significant degree of overlaping with non-East Asian Ethnic groups.
So you deny that the height gap between East-Asian Americans and White Americans is genetic? And if not, do you deny it is caused by genes of small effect?
And what a field. A discipline that has made no important findings ever since it was created, a discipline that mostly produces unreplicable studies, and more importantly: a discipline that has almost found no practical use in the real world.
Actually IQ testing has found enormous practical use. Such tests are routinely used by the military, doctors, and educators. IQ tests are arguably the single greatest achievement of the social sciences.
The most important thing they have to lose if they embrace the pseudoscience of HBD is their scientific credibility. Actually, I don’t even know how someone who knows how stuff works in genetics, neuroscience and biology could suddenly believe HBD’s tales
Maybe you should humble yourself and not assume you’re an expert in all those fields. Do you honestly believe you know as more about genetics and biology than James Watson, who won the Nobel Prize for unraveling DNA? He believes in HBD.
There is one paper by Flynn whose findings have been replicated multiple times that says the gap is no longer 15.
Flynn’s choice of data was somewhat arbitrary, and changing demographics have widened the cognitive difference measured by 15 points. That’s why it’s best to convert to white norms and when that’s done, the gap has not shrunk as much as you think.
I do think the black-white IQ gap probably shrunk somewhat in kids, but such gains often fade by adulthood. Also, younger generation of blacks probably have more white genes and the younger generation of “whites” probably now includes a lot of Hispanics and Arabs. That alone should cause some narrowing of the gap.
In addition, the content of IQ tests has changed, and they now give less weight to abilities where the racial gap was strongest.
And if we apply HBD’s argument of selective immigration to the Chinese, their mean IQs should be in the 120s if genetic selection played any role in migrant communities’ Average in the West.
I don’t know how you can deny selective immigration. Look at Indian Americans who are vastly over-represented in physics department in universities, medical schools, technology jobs and entrepreneurship, and compare them to India which is a Third World mess with abysmal academic scores. It’s totally obvious that Western countries get many of the best and brightest of the Third World on average.
The reason Chinese immigrants aren’t selected is that China is itself a First-World country, in many ways more advanced than the West so the best and brightest Chinese have no desire to migrate. If anything, the best and brightest Whites are moving to China to avoid all the Third World immigration and terrorism.
assuming black africans are like everyone else…
why should they be?
but…
once they get the memo…
and reduce their TFR to replacement or below…as Barbados, the Bahamas, and Bermuda HAVE done…
oh wait…
they still have totally phony countries to deal with…former colonies with artificial borders…and malaria…but the singaporeans dealt with that…
and…
the brazil my parents lived in for 2 years was…a guy carrying his balls around in a wheelbarrow from elephantiasis…
…
brazil IS a much more developed county today.
oh…and then there’s the dismissal of black africa and black africans by…the whole europe and its diaspora afaik…maybe the chinks are different.
…
so here’s what’s gonna happen with black africa…
1. its TFR will decrease just like every other part of the world.
2. some of its countries will have, if they don’t already, a bourgeoisie large enough to assure political stability.
3. it will be the fastest growing part of the world for the next century.
4. within the century Ghana will become like Barbados in economic terms.
“But within races, height is caused by thousands of genes. What this shows is that a trait that is caused by thousands of genes within populations, can be caused by just a few genes between populations.”
I don’t deny it, research has now to prove that these few genes that cause significant gaps between races do exist.
“So you deny that the height gap between East-Asian Americans and White Americans is genetic? And if not, do you deny it is caused by genes of small effect?”
Yes, I do deny it, I haven’t even found any data concerning the magnitude of this gap between Whites and East Asians of the same age and who grew up following similar lifestyles with similar dietary patterns.
“Actually IQ testing has found enormous practical use. Such tests are routinely used by the military, doctors, and educators. IQ tests are arguably the single greatest achievement of the social sciences.”
And what would the world would look like without psychology and psychometrics ? Exactly the same, except that Pumpkin Person’s blog wouldn’t exist.
“Do you honestly believe you know as more about genetics and biology than James Watson, who won the Nobel Prize for unraveling DNA? He believes in HBD.”
I don’t believe that, but I believe in Watson’s cognitive decline, in his “I don’t give a fuck” mindset of an old man who knows the end was near for him. And I haven’t seen his peer reviewed study in which he exposes his genetic evidences of innate racial differences.
“Flynn’s choice of data was somewhat arbitrary,”
And Pioneer Fund’s data is always neutral.
“I do think the black-white IQ gap probably shrunk somewhat in kids, but such gains often fade by adulthood”
Any recent longitudinal study to prove that ? 9 year olds tested now will reach adulthood in the late 2020’s, you’ll have to be patient.
“Also, younger generation of blacks probably have more white genes and the younger generation of “whites” probably now includes a lot of Hispanics and Arabs. That alone should cause some narrowing of the gap.
In addition, the content of IQ tests has changed, and they now give less weight to abilities where the racial gap was strongest.”
Ok I’ve understood. Blacks are not that black anymore, whites aren’t that white either and IQ tests have been dumbed down. This is Rushton’s technique, flood the reader with speculative and unfounded arguments, then try to get away with that. It doesn’t work on me, the gap IQ has substancially shrunk since the begining of IQ testing as much has black poverty and crime rates have decreased, and educational achievment and social mobility increased.
“I don’t know how you can deny selective immigration.”
My point is that Asians are the most selected group in the west, from the simple fact that distance makes it very difficult for them to come as refugees and illegals, and from the fact that they were not part of the post-colonial migrations that met Europe’s demand for cheap, low-skilled and docile labor after WWII.
“The reason Chinese immigrants aren’t selected is that China is itself a First-World country”
I’d like to believe that this statement is a joke but you seem genuinly convinced of its veracity.
China, a First World country:
http://cdn3.gbtimes.com/cdn/farfuture/aNjnaX66nS9hNOsbGpKF0ceBfNmLbEzdkS7_i0oi7SI/mtime:1413360028/sites/default/files/styles/768_wide/public/2014/10/15/zhong_guo_pin_kun_ren_kou_weibo_0.jpg?itok=MS_-q4ul
11.18% of China’s population live on less than $1.90 a day, 12.4% in India, 7.97% in Gabon, 4.87% In Brazil, 2.68% in Mexico, 1.75% in Jamaica.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentage_of_population_living_in_poverty
China’s GDP per Capita (in Purchasing power parity) is $13,224, similar to South Africa’s $13,094, lower than Brazil’s $16,155 , Botswana’s $17,050, slightly more than half of Russia’s $24,449, one third of France’s $40,538 and one quarter of America’s $54,370.
China sending her average Chang to the West:
http://www.bbnpov.com/?p=1868
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/20/world/asia/china-brain-drain/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_capital_flight#China
“The largest group of emigrants consists of professionals and experts with a middle-class background,[120] who are the backbone for the development of China. As the biggest contributor of emigrants, China also suffers the worst brain drain in the world, according to a new study that found seven out of every ten students who enroll in an overseas university never return to live in their homeland.[121]”
China, a land free of terror:
http://thediplomat.com/2015/05/beyond-doubt-the-changing-face-of-terrorism-in-china/
Don’t miss the interactive map of terrorism in China.
China, a model democracy:
No matching results found.
“singaporeans dealt with that…”
Singapore is a Chinese majority Port-City-State and tax-heaven located on the world’s busiest trade route 🙂
“it will be the fastest growing part of the world for the next century.”
Economists think it’s going to happen in the coming one or two decades. But ever since the begining of the century, the majority of the world’s fastest growing economies have been in Africa. It doesn’t make headlines because these countries don’t have in India and China’s billion+ populations and also because some of these countries started from so low that any minimal increment translates into an impressive growth percentage.
But as a whole, the images of starving people, civil war and chaos that monopolized the media’s coverage of Africa in the 80s 90s is clearly becoming outdated for most countries of the continent. Even Zimbabwe is recovering, South Africa is nowhere near close to collapsing and Nigeria has become the first economy of the continent, is at the doorsteps of the world’s top 20 and is now an emerging diversified market that produces automotives, medicines, movies, cocoa beans and of course, oil.
I’m mister Afro-optimist, I could write a thousand mile of lines on that topic.
why bother with peepee, she’s obviously just another example of east asian supremacism…and she doesn’t even live in hongcouver…and she’s trans.
FACTS:
1. there is no race of people more “racist”/ethnocentric than NE asians. nor has there very been a more racist race of people.
2. NE asians have an above average visuo-spatial/rubic’s cube IQ and a below average verbal IQ/what everyone means and has meant by “smart” from time immemorial.
And what would the world would look like without psychology and psychometrics ? Exactly the same, except that Pumpkin Person’s blog wouldn’t exist.
EXACTLY right…standing ovation!
except that…
admissions and hiring and promotion determined by OBJECTIVE tests/exams of some kind is…
MORALLY and PRACTICALLY superior to any other system of…whatever…
a dirty little secret of IQ tests is…
they are INFERIOR tests of IQ when compared to school entrance exams.
and the little purchase they have is just due to marketing.
“official” IQ test vs school entrance exams or postal exams or the firefighter’s exam or the police exam or the AFQT or ASVAB or whatever…
it’s like the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist.
one is just marketing. the other is drugs.
I don’t deny it, research has now to prove that these few genes that cause significant gaps between races do exist.
And no genetic study has compared racial genetic variants to IQ genetic variants so it’s still possible that genes of large effect do both affect IQ and differ between races, but if they’re sufficiently rare within races, then they wont show up on Genome-Wide Association Studies because they’re don’t vary much within races (GWAS studies tend to be racially monolithic).
Yes, I do deny it, I haven’t even found any data concerning the magnitude of this gap between Whites and East Asians of the same age and who grew up following similar lifestyles with similar dietary patterns.
Well there’s no logical basis for you to doubt it. You’re underestimating how much genetic variation exists between populations. There may be only 20,000 genes in the precise sense of the word, but there are 10 million genetic variants known as single nucleotide polymorphisms and it only takes about 100 to cause a one standard deviation difference in either height or IQ.
And what would the world would look like without psychology and psychometrics ? Exactly the same, except that Pumpkin Person’s blog wouldn’t exist.
There would be a lot more waste in the military in that people would be trained for jobs they’re not able to do. One could argue that IQ testing, and quasi IQ testing like the SAT has been instrumental in getting the brightest minds into positions of importance and that society has benefited greatly as a result. One could argue that IQ tests have been instrumental in identifying students with learning disabilities and getting them the help they needed early.
And there’s no doubt that in about a decade, genetic research into IQ will result in embryo screening for high IQ kids, and that will change the trajectory of history as the World gets more scientists, doctors and innovators, including in Third World countries that desperately need them. Genetic editing and embryo screening based on IQ research will also possibly eliminate major racial inequalities
I don’t believe that, but I believe in Watson’s cognitive decline, in his “I don’t give a fuck” mindset of an old man who knows the end was near for him. And I haven’t seen his peer reviewed study in which he exposes his genetic evidences of innate racial differences.
How many eminent geneticists can you name that deny intelligence has a substantial genetic component? Race and IQ is controversial, but genetics and intelligence is not, among hardcore science types.
Any recent longitudinal study to prove that ?
Not recent, but the classic Minnesota transracial adoption study (the gold standard in the field) found that socioeconomic induced gains in black IQ vanished by late adolescence. Because of policies like affirmative action and diminishing racism, black kids are now being raised by higher SES parents, but whether the IQ gains that causes will have staying power remains to be seen.
Ok I’ve understood. Blacks are not that black anymore, whites aren’t that white either and IQ tests have been dumbed down. This is Rushton’s technique, flood the reader with speculative and unfounded arguments, then try to get away with that. It doesn’t work on me, the gap IQ has substancially shrunk since the begining of IQ testing as much has black poverty and crime rates have decreased, and educational achievment and social mobility increased.
Well the adult black-white IQ gap appears to have been virtually unchanged for virtually the entire 20th century. If it suddenly diminishes somewhat now, we need an explanation. A genetic explanation (race mixing and immigration) is just as plausible as an environmental one, though realistically, both explanations are involved..
11.18% of China’s population live on less than $1.90 a day, 12.4% in India, 7.97% in Gabon, 4.87% In Brazil, 2.68% in Mexico, 1.75% in Jamaica.
And more people live in jail in the U.S. than any other country. Fact is, China is arguably the biggest economy in the World and Beijing now has more billionaires than ultra-Jewish New York. The idea that they’re a Third World country is laughable.
“And no genetic study has compared racial genetic variants to IQ genetic variants so it’s still possible that genes of large effect do both affect IQ and differ between races,”
Non-HBD litterature on the black-white IQ gap regularly mentions one study that investigated the relationship between IQ and the degree of genetic relatedness to Europeans in African Americans, that study found no correlation whatsoever. On the contrary, research on African Americans has been crucial in finding genes associeted with variation in skin color between races.
The truth of the matter is that trying to find genes for IQ is pointless since we don’t yet know what are the neurological processes that determine IQ. For traits like height, we know that the genes that influence growth hormone production result in the observable phenotype of height. For traits like skin color, we know that the genes that cause variation do it through the regulating of melanin production. For IQ, we know of no neurotransmitter, hormone or brain organization pattern that could be genetically influenced and resulting in the vaguely observable trait of IQ or g.
“Well there’s no logical basis for you to doubt it.”
Yes, there is one: the non-uniformity of the height averages of East Asian ethnic groups, white European and black African ethnic groups, as well the overlapping of the height averages of ethnic groups of different races. This alone disproves the idea that height is part of the adaptive phenotype of theses groups.
“100 to cause a one standard deviation difference in either height or IQ.”
Don’t mistake Dr Shoe’s speculations for established scientific facts.
“How many eminent geneticists can you name that deny intelligence has a substantial genetic component?”
These are a couple things that I know or assume:
-Few geneticists would agree that intelligence and IQ are synonymous. Most of them would rather question the scientific validity of the notion of intelligence, they would instead separate cognitive aptitudes, attempt to link them to neurological processes and then evaluate their relationship to IQ and genes.
-Most geneticists would argue that even traits with the highest heritability are not immune to environmental influences and non-genetic manipulation.
-Most geneticists would also argue that twin studies from which we make heritability estimates, as well as the mathematic formula that gives the estimitate have limitations, that it is very difficult to test human behavioral traits in laboratory-like like conditions that would bar environmental pollution.
Quite far away from Dr. Shoe’s nonsense, some specialists are effectively trying to establish a genetics-cognition relationship. Their field is called neurogenetics and here are some of their findings/theories as summarized on wikipedia.
“Similarly to impulsivity, varying levels of cognition have been linked to many different genes, several of which are related to dopamine genes expression in frontostriatal circuitry. These genes have been seen to play a role in higher cognitive functions such as learning and motivation, possibly by acting on the reward system in the dopamine pathway. It has been shown that these factors, along with many others not related to dopamine, such as CHRM2, are highly heritable. While many executive functions can be learned through experience and environmental factors, individuals with these specific genes, particularly those with high expression levels, were shown to possess higher cognitive function than those without them.[29] One possible explanation for this is that these genes act as high motivational factor, making these individuals more likely to either develop better cognitive function naturally or participate in activities that result in higher cognitive function by means of experience. Much of this motivation may arise from reward based learning. In this type of learning, a particular outcome is more positive than anticipated, resulting in a higher level of dopamine being released in the brain. Dopamine release was for a long time thought to result in a feeling of pleasure, causing an increase in this behavior. However, recent advances in our understanding of reward prediction and learning[30] are leading researchers to view dopamine simply as a reward-error signal, rather than being responsible for inducing the feeling of pleasure. Over time this reward-seeking behavior will increase synaptic plasticity, resulting in an increase in neuronal connections and faster response times.[31]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenetics#Higher_cognitive_function
“such as CHRM2, are highly heritable”
The CHRM2-IQ correlation later appeared to be a false positive, but its relationship to alcoholism is now an established fact.
“Not recent, but the classic Minnesota transracial adoption study (the gold standard in the field) found that socioeconomic induced gains in black IQ vanished by late adolescence.”
In a very detailed paper by a team of authors that I’m trying to find again, it is specified that the Minnesota transracial adoption study is one of seven studies of this type and the only one that moderates the view that interracial adoption leads to lasting improvments in the IQ of adopted blacks, the 6 others support a 100% environmental cause for this gap.
“A genetic explanation (race mixing and immigration) is just as plausible as an environmental one, though realistically, both explanations are involved..”
The intellectual, educational and economic distance between blacks and whites has narrowed much faster than their genetic distance. Moreover, in the United States, immigrants and their descendants are a negligible fraction of the black population.
“Fact is, China is arguably the biggest economy in the World and Beijing now has more billionaires than ultra-Jewish New York. The idea that they’re a Third World country is laughable.”
China, the biggest economy in the world:
The three largest economic spaces in nominal GDP are
1- the European Union ($18,527,116 millions / $36,392 per capita)
2- the United States of America ($17,348,075 millions / $55,904 per capita)
3- China ($10,356,508 / $8,280 per capita)
“Beijing now has more billionaires than ultra-Jewish New York”
“According to the Sunday Times Rich List 2015, London has more billionaires than any other city in the world.[4] This list is based upon pounds sterling (£).
1- London – 80
2- New York City– 56
3- San Francisco – 49
4- Moscow – 45
5- Hong Kong – 43
6- Los Angeles – 40
7- Beijing – 27
7- Mumbai – 27
9- Paris – 21
10- Sao Paulo – 16”
“In 2015, Forbes Magazine listed New York City with the most number of billionaires at 78 persons, followed by Moscow at 68 and Hong Kong at third place at 64 total billionaires.[5] The report also lists the US as having more billionaires per capita than any other country in the world.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_number_of_billionaires
No matter which city has the largest number of billionaires it desn’t change anything to the fact that China is not a developed country, that it suffers a severe brain drain and that the Chinese in the West are hyper-selected high SES migrants.
“There would be a lot more waste in the military in that people would be trained for jobs they’re not able to do. One could argue that IQ testing, and quasi IQ testing like the SAT has been instrumental in getting the brightest minds into positions of importance and that society has benefited greatly as a result. One could argue that IQ tests have been instrumental in identifying students with learning disabilities and getting them the help they needed early.”
SAT scores are criticized for being weak predictors of college success, IQ tests as a whole are criticized for being inaccurate estimates of limited aspects of mental ability. Learning disability is described as impairment of learning aptitudes without a subnormal IQ. The use of IQ testing is a mostly American thing, 99,9999% of the world’s population live pretty fine not knowing their and other’s IQ. No IQ test has caused any revolutionary trend in society, the discipline is greatly esoteric and is not judged crucial for any purpose.
“And there’s no doubt that in about a decade, genetic research into IQ will result in embryo screening for high IQ kids,”
Forget that, genetic manipulation of plants is already a hot topic. Don’t even imagine that new eugenics will gain widespread acceptance, from scientists worrying about the side effects of genetic engeneering to religious fundamentalists, most people will oppose such a venture.
peepee is a chink.
has she ever been to the PRC?
the PRC
IS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY.
ONLY A MORON COULD THINK OTHERWISE.
AND S KOREA AND TAIWAN ARE PRETTY SHITTY TOO.
JAPAN, HONG KONG, SINGAPORE, THE GULF STATES…THE REST OF ASIA IS SHIT.
again afro-sapiens or terre blanche or whoever deserves a 1930s party congress ovation.
IQ and IQ tests, per se, ARE anamerican thing, but at the same time the world outside the US and canada is actually much MORE test-centric, and the tests they use are strongly correlated with “official” IQ tests, and the US is anti-test much more than other countries…with the exception canuckistan.
basically, like everything american, “official” IQ tests vs just tests are just marketing/salesmanship.
it is a very unpleasant sentiment, but it is also an unpleasant FACT of this sublunary realm.
peepee is just an instance of a large and unpleasant phenomenon:
and like everything american…
the IQ test vs test non-dichotomy is contradictory and Orwellian.
the contemporary united states of shit IS 1984‘s Oceania.
MUCH more so than the Soviet Union ever was.
for God’s sake, the current Fed chair sounds like a character from Welcome Back Kotter.
“
Non-HBD litterature on the black-white IQ gap regularly mentions one study that investigated the relationship between IQ and the degree of genetic relatedness to Europeans in African Americans, that study found no correlation whatsoever.
That’s an old study that’s not very refined, but perhaps you’re right and there are no genes of large effect that contribute to the black-white IQ gap.
The truth of the matter is that trying to find genes for IQ is pointless since we don’t yet know what are the neurological processes that determine IQ.
It doesn’t matter. We know from GCTA studies that there are thousands of genetic variants associated with IQ, and once they have a sample size of a million people, they’ll be found by GWAS. We went through the same situation with height. For years, no genes were found, and then as soon as sample size hit critical mass, the genes started pouring in so fast scientists can’t even keep up.
Yes, there is one: the non-uniformity of the height averages of East Asian ethnic groups, white European and black African ethnic groups, as well the overlapping of the height averages of ethnic groups of different races. This alone disproves the idea that height is part of the adaptive phenotype of theses groups.
That doesn’t follow logically. Just because two macro-races differ on a trait genetically doesn’t mean there can’t be even bigger micro-racial differences within those macro-races, caused by either genes or environment.
Don’t mistake Dr Shoe’s speculations for established scientific facts.
It’s not speculation, it’s simply a matter of comparing people who differ by a hundred genetic variants and observing how much they differ in height. There have been many studies now on the genetic basis for height, not Hsu only (his research is IQ). It’s not at all controversial among geneticists.
-Most geneticists would argue that even traits with the highest heritability are not immune to environmental influences and non-genetic manipulation.
Correct. Heritability and malleability are conceptually distinct, but let’s take one topic at a time.
In a very detailed paper by a team of authors that I’m trying to find again, it is specified that the Minnesota transracial adoption study is one of seven studies of this type and the only one that moderates the view that interracial adoption leads to lasting improvments in the IQ of adopted blacks, the 6 others support a 100% environmental cause for this gap.
Although I find the Minnesota study to be very convincing evidence of the truth of HBD, I fully concede that not only has it not been replicated, but it’s actually been contradicted by several other trans-racial adoption studies that did NOT find any correlation between IQ and race, however those studies had major problems:
For example Tizard (1974) compared black, white and mixed-race kids raised in English residential nurseries and found that the only significant IQ difference favored the non-white kids. A problem with this study is that the children were extremely young (below age 5) and ethnic differences in maturation rates favor black kids. A bigger problem with this study is that the parents of the black kids appeared to be immigrants (African or West Indian) and immigrants are often hyper-selected for IQ (see Indian Americans).
A second study by Eyferth (1961) found that the biological illegitimate children of white German women had a mean IQ of 97.2 if the biological father was was a white soldier and 96.5 if the biological father was a black soldier (a trivial difference). Both the white and mixed kids were raised by their biological white mothers. One problem with this study is that the biological fathers of both races would have been screened to have similar IQ’s because at the time, only the highest scoring 97% of whites and highest scoring 70% of blacks passed the Army General Classification Test and were allowed to be U.S. soldiers. In addition, 20% to 25% of the “black fathers” were not African-American or even black Africans, but rather French North Africans (non-white caucasoids or “dark whites” as they are sometimes called). In addition, there was no follow-up to measure the adult IQ of the children.
A third study by Moore (1986) included a section where he looked at sub-samples of children adopted by white parents. He found that nine adopted kids with two black biological parents averaged 2 IQ points higher than 14 adopted kids with only one biological black parent but the sample size was quite small, and again, no follow up when the kids were older.
The intellectual, educational and economic distance between blacks and whites has narrowed much faster than their genetic distance. Moreover, in the United States, immigrants and their descendants are a negligible fraction of the black population.
The black-white IQ gap has at most narrowed by 5 points. The narrowing might be small enough to be entirely explained by:
1) More so-called whites having Amerindian or black blood as a result of immigration and intermarriage
2) More so-called blacks having substantial non-black ancestry because of increased intermarriage and more blacks being descended from elite immigrants instead of slaves.
Each of these factors alone may have a small effect, but collectively they add up.
Now as for the size of China’s economy or the number of billionaires it has, different sources gives different results, but it always ranks near the top. It’s generally considered a developed country, though not among the most developed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country#/media/File:2014_UN_Human_Development_Report_Quartiles.svg
“It doesn’t matter. We know from GCTA studies that there are thousands of genetic variants associated with IQ, and once they have a sample size of a million people, they’ll be found by GWAS.”
It does matter, because IQ alone has no material/biological significance. Genetics is a field of biology, it works with quantifiable notions that are scientifically defined.
Genes for height or whatever trait never needed as much as one million tested subjects to be found and replicated. My humble layman opinion is that they could test the whole humanity, they would never find anything. They would have better chances with epigenetic markers.
“That doesn’t follow logically. Just because two macro-races differ on a trait genetically doesn’t mean there can’t be even bigger micro-racial differences within those macro-races, caused by either genes or environment.”
The folk classifications of races are based on genetically determined observable phenotiypes for which variation mostly occures between groups. If variation in a given trait is greater between individuals or ethnic groups of the same race than between those races, it indicates that the trait gave little selective advantage for adaptation to the pressures that resulted in the phenotypes that show more variation between groups than within groups. That’s even more true if that given trait is highly susceptible to fluctuations that are mostly due to differing environmental conditions.
“Correct. Heritability and malleability are conceptually distinct, but let’s take one topic at a time.”
And so are heritability and genetic determinism.
“Although I find the Minnesota study to be very convincing evidence of the truth of HBD, I fully concede that not only has it not been replicated, but it’s actually been contradicted by several other trans-racial adoption studies that did NOT find any correlation between IQ and race, however those studies had major problems:”
I was talking of 6 other transracial adoption studies similar to the Minnesota study which had its own flaws. The black children were adopted later in life than the mixed race and white children. The follow up study also faced issues with standardization norms that differed between time and state. And if I remember well, the Asian kids had IQs that were lower than that of white and mixed race children. The authors of the follow-up study were themselves not satisfied with their findings, especially since the study went as an outlier. In any case, it is not considered as the gold standard of any other thing but the pioneer fund, which financed it.
“For example Tizard (1974) compared black, white and mixed-race kids raised in English residential nurseries and found that the only significant IQ difference favored the non-white kids. A problem with this study is that the children were extremely young (below age 5) and ethnic differences in maturation rates favor black kids. A bigger problem with this study is that the parents of the black kids appeared to be immigrants (African or West Indian) and immigrants are often hyper-selected for IQ (see Indian Americans).”
The black children had an IQ of 106, the whites had an IQ of 100 and the mixed race children fell somewhere in between.
At that time, Blacks in Britain were mostly working class West Indians and as a generality, the children who grow up in residential nurseries are not the children of lawyers, doctors or even postmen, they are the same as those who get adopted.
Maturation rate don’t favor black kids. Taking age at menarche as a proxi here are some examples:
“Menarcheal age was estimated for 287 (188 Black; 99 White) urban South African girls born in Soweto-Johannesburg in 1990. The median menarcheal age for Blacks was 12.4 years (95% confidence interval (CI) 12.2, 12.6) and 12.5 years (95% CI 11.7, 13.3) for Whites. Data from six studies of menarcheal age, including the current study, were analyzed to examine the evidence for a secular trend between 1956 and 2004 in urban South African girls. There was evidence of a statistically significant secular trend for Blacks, but not Whites. Average menarcheal age for Blacks decreased from 14.9 years (95% CI 14.8, 15.0) in 1956 to 12.4 years (95% CI 12.2, 12.6) in the current study, an average decline of 0.50 years per decade. Fewer data were available for Whites, but average menarcheal age decreased from 13.1 years (95% CI 13.0, 13.2) in 1977 to 12.5 years (95% CI 11.7, 13.3) in the current study, an average decline of 0.22 years per decade. The diminishing age at menarche and the current lack of difference between Blacks and Whites is probably reflective of the continuing nutritional and socio-economic transition occurring within South Africa.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18942702
“In a cross-sectional retrospective study of 2087 Ghanaian school girls in various educational institutions in the Kumasi district, Ashanti region, Ghana, the mean menarcheal age was found to be 13.98 +/- 1.42 years. Differences in the menarcheal age of the girls was found to be significantly correlated to social class, parents ethnic origin, educational institution and home living area (P = 0.0001). The duration of the menarche and the interval between the menarche and the second period was found to be influenced by the age at menarche (P less than 0.01). Decline in menarcheal age in concurrence with world trends was observed. Further studies are necessary to identify the inherent and specific factors in the Ghanaian population which relate to and influence the age of menarche.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2572476
This study is a better support of the environmentalist position than the Minnesota study is one for hereditarianism.
“A second study by Eyferth (1961) found that the biological illegitimate children of white German women had a mean IQ of 97.2 if the biological father was was a white soldier and 96.5 if the biological father was a black soldier (a trivial difference).”
I have no opinion on this study, except that it is fairly old and performed the verry specific setting of post-war Germany. I can’t even verify the claim that a certain amount of the fathers were Maghrebis, and moreover, the status of the mothers is not well specified. Did the whites had children with higher SES woman ? That’s probable but not specified. Anyway, everytime I came through it, I almost always dismissed it as a validation of the environmental hypothese.
“A third study by Moore (1986) included a section where he looked at sub-samples of children adopted by white parents. He found that nine adopted kids with two black biological parents averaged 2 IQ points higher than 14 adopted kids with only one biological black parent but the sample size was quite small, and again, no follow up when the kids were older.”
Never heard of this study. I agree that the sample is small. But had the results been different, you would have taken it as an reliable evidence for the hereditarian position.
“1) More so-called whites having Amerindian or black blood as a result of immigration and intermarriage”
If the white IQ was declining, the White-Asian or the White-Ashkenazi gap would be widening too.
“More so-called blacks having substantial non-black ancestry because of increased intermarriage and more blacks being descended from elite immigrants instead of slaves.”
The rate of identification as a multiracial individual is exploding in the United States. Moreover, White ancestry is not correlated with IQ in African Americans. I’ve read about the SAT scores that you take as quasi-IQ scores that the narrowing of the gap was mostly caused by increases at the bottom of the distribution of SAT score in the African American population. That makes the elite argument, or even the admixture one unlikely. That trend may be linked to the falling crime rates that can be seen as a proxi for a reduction of the highly marginalized segment of the African American population. Another explanations is that safer neighborhoods cause less psychological disturbance, thus increasing scores and schooling conditions.
“Each of these factors alone may have a small effect, but collectively they add up.”
None of them does.
“Now as for the size of China’s economy or the number of billionaires it has, different sources gives different results, but it always ranks near the top.”
No source gives china as the word’s biggest economy in nominal terms and no source ranks any Mainland Chinese city in the top 5 in terms of concentration of wealth. Impressive figures are only due to China’s 1.3 billion population (more than 4 times that of the USA). When indices are expressed relatively to its population, China always ranks slightly below or slightly above the world’s average.In terms of development, China is only comparable to countries like Brazil, Mexico, Jamaica, Russia or Turkey, none of them are developed, they are upper-middle income economies with striking unequality, widespread corruption, sick or absent democracies, severe brain drain. If China had a border with the United States, Donald Trunk would be talking about building a new Great Wall of China.
And no, the Chinese who come to the West are not part of the peasantry and working class that both account for one third of the country’s population. And ironically, within China, peasants need passports to be allowed to reside in cities.
Bottom line, the Chinese IQ scores in the West are at least as inflated by selection than those of other non-Whites.
“Donald Trunk”
Donald Trump, I didn’t mean to write it that way.
“
It does matter, because IQ alone has no material/biological significance.
You’re too smart to say such ignorant things. IQ is correlated with brain size, electrochemical activity in the brain, complexity of EEG waves, average evoked potential, speed and consistency of simple and complex reaction time, cerebral glucose metabolism, peripheral nerve conduction velocity, brain nerve conduction velocity…the list goes on and on. In fact if it weren’t so expensive and politically incorrect, they would administer biological IQ tests instead of psychometric ones.
Genes for height or whatever trait never needed as much as one million tested subjects to be found and replicated.
But they needed samples of 10,000 people or more, and they’ve still only found about 10% of the genes for height.
The folk classifications of races are based on genetically determined observable phenotiypes for which variation mostly occures between groups. If variation in a given trait is greater between individuals or ethnic groups of the same race than between those races, it indicates that the trait gave little selective advantage for adaptation to the pressures that resulted in the phenotypes that show more variation between groups than within groups. That’s even more true if that given trait is highly susceptible to fluctuations that are mostly due to differing environmental conditions.
But it’s still possible for two macro-races to differ by 1 SD on average in say genetic height, yet for micro-races within said macro-races to differ by 2 SD. It would even be possible to have a tribe of black Africans who had the whitest skin in the World, and a micro-race of Caucasoids who had black skin (we kind of do have that in India, though that might be because of Australoid admixture). But none of that changes the fact that ON AVERAGE, Caucasoids are genetically lighter than Negroids.
At that time, Blacks in Britain were mostly working class West Indians and as a generality
Yes but it was the more educated who would migrate.
the children who grow up in residential nurseries are not the children of lawyers, doctors or even postmen,
Yes but if migrants are smarter than the average of their race, even their deadbeats will be smarter than the average deadbeat of their race
Maturation rate don’t favor black kids.
Oh yes it does. By week 39 of pregnancy, 51%of black Americans have been born compared to 33% of whites (Niswander & Gordon, 1972). Similar results have been found in Paris (Papiernick et al, 1986).
Bayley’s Scales of Mental and Motor Development given in 12 parts of the U.S. to representative infants showed black babies consistently outscored white babies (Bayley, 1965) in multiple domains: coordination, muscular strength and tonus, and locomotion.
This study was replicated in the U.S. and also found to be true in Jamaica and sub-Saharan Africa
Taking age at menarche as a proxi here are some examples:
“Menarcheal age was estimated for 287 (188 Black; 99 White) urban South African girls born in Soweto-Johannesburg in 1990.
It’s better to get data from the U.S. where races presumably differ much less in nutrition. Malina, 1979, found that in the U.S., black girls achieve menarche before white girls. A national probability sample in the U.S. found that by age 12, 19% of black girls had reached the highest level of breast and pubic hair development, compared to 5% of white girls (Harlan et al, 1980)
Never heard of this study. I agree that the sample is small. But had the results been different, you would have taken it as an reliable evidence for the hereditarian position.
Well, the bottom line is we have one big study that was 100% consistent with HBD, and two tiny studies that were 100% consistent with environmentalism (I’m ignoring the fourth study that we both reject). If we take an average of the three studies (weighted for sample size), then the totality of evidence is mostly (but not completely) consistent with HBD
The rate of identification as a multiracial individual is exploding in the United States. Moreover, White ancestry is not correlated with IQ in African Americans.
We’ve already discussed that and will have to agree to disagree on that point.
In any event, it’s likely more kids who get classified as black by testers have white ancestry than in the past.
But even if the declining black-white gap is as environmental and as large as you claim, most of the gap is still there, consistent with HBD being mostly correct, as the totality of adoption studies show.
No source gives china as the word’s biggest economy in nominal terms
Without fanfare—indeed, with some misgivings about its new status—China has just overtaken the United States as the world’s largest economy. This is, and should be, a wake-up call—but not the kind most Americans might imagine.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/01/china-worlds-largest-economy
Impressive figures are only due to China’s 1.3 billion population (more than 4 times that of the USA). When indices are expressed relatively to its population, China always ranks slightly below or slightly above the world’s average.In terms of development
Bottom line is it’s NOT a third-world country:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World#/media/File:Cold_War_alliances_mid-1975.svg
Bottom line, the Chinese IQ scores in the West are at least as inflated by selection than those of other non-Whites.
They’re not as inflated as African immigrants or Indian immigrants, because those groups are coming from THIRD WORLD countries which China is NOT.
Further, a lot of Chines Americans came as indentured labor.
Lastly, if China is so crappy, it’s even MORE IMPRESSIVE, that Chinese raised in China outperform Whites in the First World on test designed by First World Whites.
“IQ is correlated with…”
Correlation is not causation, and there is no neurological trait that correlates more than 0.5 with IQ. Hence, it’s not yet to make any direct association between IQ and any neurological feature, which in turn makes it even more difficult to establish a direct relationship between any gene and IQ.
Another difficulty arises from the very nature of IQ, which is not a quantitative measure. the quantative difference in ability between an IQ of 100 and an IQ of 105 is not the same as the difference between an IQ of 120 and 125. Whereas for height, the difference bewteen 160cm and 170cm is the same as the difference between 170cm and 180cm.
“they would administer biological IQ tests instead of psychometric ones.”
Then why haven’t they performed such traits on even one person ? That would have avoided a great deal of measurment error.
“it would even be possible to have a tribe of black Africans who had the whitest skin in the World”
Well, the whole humanity is one race of black, white, yellow and red Black Africans.
More seriously, your hypothese could only be possible if Subsaharan Africa had one region in which ecological environment selected for white skin while favoring all other negroid traits. But there is no proof of any environment that selects for height outside of rainforests.
“Yes but it wasthe more educated who would migrate.”
If selection for education played any role, the mixed race Children would have had better IQs than the blacks since being a mulatto is associated with higher SES for the West-Indian-born and a sign of better integration of the black parent for the British born.
“Yes but if migrants are smarter than the average of their race, even their deadbeats will be smarter than the average deadbeat of their race”
The demographics of residential nurseries or foster care are quite similar to that of prisons. At this level of marginality, people are equally at the bottom of their own race or whatever group they belong to.
“By week 39 of pregnancy, 51%of black Americans have been born compared to 33% of whites (Niswander & Gordon, 1972). Similar results have been found in Paris (Papiernick et al, 1986).”
“It has been reported that asymptomatic colonization of the decidua occurs in up to 70% of women at term using a DNA probe suggesting that the presence of micro-organism alone may be insufficient to initiate the infectious response. Bacterial vaginosis has been linked to preterm birth raising the risk by a factor of 1.5 – 3.[71] As the condition is more prevalent in black women in the US and the UK, it has been suggested to be an explanation for the higher rate of preterm birth in these populations. It is opined that bacterial vaginosis before or during pregnancy may affect the decidual inflammatory response that leads to preterm birth.[34]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterm_birth#Factors_during_pregnancy
These are of the many environmental factors that affects gestational length and for which lower classes are at disadvantage.
“Bayley’s Scales of Mental and Motor Development given in 12 parts of the U.S. to representative infants showed black babies consistently outscored white babies (Bayley, 1965) in multiple domains: coordination, muscular strength and tonus, and locomotion.”
Here is the abstract of the study you are referring to:
“Revised forms of Bayley’s Scales of Mental and Motor Development were administered to 1409 infants, ages 1-15 mo. The study population was found to be representative of the U. S. Comparisons of means and standard deviations of total scores for each of the 15 mo. were made for a series of subsamples of the population. No differences in scores were found for either scale between boys and girls, 1st-born and later-born, education of either father or mother, or geographic residence. No differences were found between Negroes and whites on the Mental Scale, but the Negro Ss tended consistently to score above the whites on the Motor Scale. Scores for a small sample of Puerto Rican babies were the same as for the total white sample. Emphasis was placed on the need to study carefully the development of mental processes in the 2nd yr. of life. Within this period evidently will be found the explanation of the socioeconomic and ethnic differences in mental functioning that are repeatedly found for children of 4 yr. and older.”
There is no mental advantage for black children at age 15 months, the higher IQ of blacks in this study can’t be attributed to faster intellectual maturation. Interesting, even though the sample is low, the Puerto Ricans don’t score in between blacks and whites on any variable, although they are a mixture of West Africans and South Europeans with a small contribution of Native Americans.
“It’s better to get data from the U.S. where races presumably differ much less in nutrition.”
They are vast differences in dietary habits between blacks and whites, with blacks having higher rates of developed-world malnutritation which results in obesity, diabetes, hypertension and… Early puberty.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22570951
“Well, the bottom line is we have one big study that was 100% consistent with HBD, and two tiny studies that were 100% consistent with environmentalism”
In actuality, the strongest study is the residential nursery one. It is the closest thing to an equalized environment. Moreover, one paper that dealt with the black-white IQ gap said that the Minnesota study was the only one out of seven transracial adoption studies to find no significant effect of adoption.
“In any event, it’s likely more kids who get classified as black by testers have white ancestry than in the past.”
I guess test-takers self-identify, in the way they do on census and surveys.
“most of the gap is still there, consistent with HBD being mostly correct, as the totality of adoption studies show.”
A large part of environmental inequality remains too and only one unreplicated study supports HBD.
“Without fanfare—indeed, with some misgivings about its new status—China has just overtaken the United States as the world’s largest economy. This is, and should be, a wake-up call—but not the kind most Americans might imagine.”
woohoo, Vanity Fair, what a source !
Well, I see that you don’t understand the menaning of nominal GDP. China comes first in terms of Purchasing Power parity, which is the estimated amount of good that one dollar can buy in a country according to the cost of life there, . Nominal GDP is a country’s output expressed at current exchange rate, it is the international market value of its economy. Here, china comes second (or third if we include the European Union). Nominal GDP is more appropriate for international comparatives. China will rank first in both measures within the next 15 years, this is certain. However, its economy will need to be three times to four times bigger to come on par with either the European Union or the United States in per capita GDP, and China is nowhere near close to that.
“They’re not as inflated as African immigrants or Indian immigrants, because those groups are coming from THIRD WORLD countries which China is NOT.”
Third-world, first world are obsolete terms describing cold-war geopolitical sidings. We now speak in terms of developed/developing/underdeveloped countries and China belongs to the developing category. A more sophisticated categorization is High income/upper-middle income/middle-income/lower-middle income/low income countries. China is in the middle income category or might have recently been promoted to upper-middle along with Brazil, Russia, Mexico, Jamaica or Turkey. India, Nigeria or Ghana are lower-middle income economies, which is not what you would call “the third world”.
As for Ghanaians in the UK, here is how selected they are
“63.70% of recent Ghanaian immigrants to the UK of working age are employed (compared to 73.49% for British born people regardless of race or ethnic background). 17.19% of recent immigrants are low earners, which is pay less than £149.20 a week (compared to 21.08% for British-born people), and 3.13% are high earners, which is more than £750 per week (compared to 6.98% for British-born people). The percentages for settled immigrants are slightly different, 69.51% are employed, with 15.04% being low earners and 5.31% high earners.[17]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghanaians_in_the_United_Kingdom#Economics
Afro’s gettin’ salty…
The ramifications of artificial intelligence encountering normative human society is bleak. Who is to say the values instilled are the values we want? A model of personal intentions. (Liberal robots rejection of neocon robots policy). (San Francisco vs the pentagon, CIA, NSA). (Robot police – Ferguson black lives matter). 24 h surveillance by robots. World wide identification. Indoctrination – pikachu pokemon – consumerism – post capitalist robots. (IQ enhancements)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/03/24/microsofts-teen-girl-ai-turns-into-a-hitler-loving-sex-robot-wit/
)))))Animekitty always rocks and he does at right moment! That dancing Pikachus are very relieving 🙂
Great to see you again! Yes animekitty does rock. And I hope your psychometric research is going well Konstantin!
)) Yes, PP, I am here and I have been around,
http://www.bestgore.com/murder/brussels-airport-explosions-photos-videos-analysis/attachment/jews-celebrate-brussels-attacks/
prof shoe has a new post once again demonstrating his total inability to understand norms of reaction…
and…
his total inability to distinguish words from things.
but he’s a chink, so it’s expected.
chinks are like parrots or border collies.
great at repeating and obedience.
really bad at thinking.
this explains why chinkistan (what is today the PRC) is such a shit hole.
the indians have the excuse of not caring.
No one understands norms of reactions except you, and now me. 🙂
You single out HBDers, but no one in genetic research talks about reaction norms.
They all use local samples to assert heritability, for almost every trait, not psychological traits only.
But autism, if it really has increased in prevalence, and I’m skeptical, might be a good candidate for a reaction norm analysis.
”No one understands norms of reactions except you, and now me. :-)”
Explain me teacher, please…
”’Reaction standard (genetic): It is the ability of a genotype to produce different phenotypes in response to the environment. The set of phenotypic expression of a genotype under different environmental conditions. An organism may possess all the genetic complement required to develop fully. However, in parallel there is no adequate nutrition, the development does not occur. The environment modifies only phenotypic characteristics within certain limits by the predominant genotype (genotype reaction norm). Genotype actually does not determine a phenotype, but rather a range of possible phenotypes, a standard reaction. That is, a repertoire of alternative development pathways and metabolism of a given genotype in several possible environments, favorable and unfavorable, natural and artificial. In summary, our genome (our “floorplan”) does not determine a phenotype, but sets out a range of possibilities. A certain phenotype be realized depending on the interaction of a given genotype with a given environment.””
But it depends on the genotype (organism or individual heritability potential — redundant) is not **
” Proper nutrition ” depends on the body because some organisms do not need a lot of food, because it depends on the environmental dynamics in which it was developed.
Again…..
the example of fashion models.
They tend to have very low body mass index. Their children are more likely to be born stupid because it ** Or lower **
There is a minimum limit and maximum limit of nutrition, this is an ideal range of nutrition during pregnancy.
The increased exposure to pathogens of populations living in the tropics as opposed to ‘weaken’ the population may have the opposite effect.
Natural selection is a real thing and does not negate the idea of environmental fluctuation.
Again, the optimum of a population is not equal to that of other populations.
But it is speculation, no one has literal evidence of anything. What we have is a systematic and global chain that patterns are repeated for all human populations.
The human being is a step ahead of other species TEND to be able to move from one environment to another without suffering huge losses, just to be able to modify the environment (destroying it) to accommodate himself.
Lammarque wrong to say that the phenotype is transmitted, since it is always transmitted is the genotype. The genotype is all potential heritability that a person has both positive expressions (greater creativity) and for negative expressions (schizophrenia). The phenotype is the result of genotypic combinations that prevailed or that are contextually (expressively) dominant.
He argued that if I started to work out and gain muscle I pass these phenotypic changes for my children. He was not wrong at all, because if I have a physio-psychological disposition to work out and gain muscle so I can pass this potential for my son, genotypically, because if I have a potential so that is to indicate that I have something intrinsic that increase the chances for me to express it. And it can happen to my son inherit new mutations that will do more naturally muscular. And it can be interpreted as evidence that Lammarque was right.
” Reading to children increases their verbal intelligence ”
Or
” People who read to their children are more likely to enjoy reading, in general, even to read to their children during the night, higher verbal intelligence signal, and can pass their high verbal intelligence for them, that is under normal conditions will be very likely to pass ”
Attitudes, all them do have some genetic load, some of which will be minimal ( don’t know to drive a car) and others that are highly prevalent (verbal intelligence) and the environment allow make those more constant and exponentially useful everyday.
”But autism, if it really has increased in prevalence, and I’m skeptical, might be a good candidate for a reaction norm analysis.”
Greater weight, height and huge head tend to correlate, i thought, strongly, with autism spectrum while schizophrenia tend to correlate with the opposite pattern. Autistics tend to have OR have more neurons in their brain while schizophrenia seems to be the opposite pattern. The % of schizophrenia cases is reducing since early XX century while the % of autism cases is increasing.
Overdiagnosis*
Yes, also. But maybe the (over) improvement of nutrition and increase the number of people who have child later.
Santoculto, read this post about independent genetic effects
https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/02/20/independent-genetic-effects/
Also, read this post:
https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/03/26/norms-of-reaction-the-ultimate-test-for-hbd/
First, you understand what i wrote*
i have learned from experience that…
complexity and subtlety are two different things.
some like prof shoe are past masters at complexity, yet are completely lacking in subtlety.
the reverse is true too.
i have yet to make a “technical” critique of GCTA and “many genes of small effect”, because i have yet to study these in detail.
but shoe has dismissed all critics as “high v, low m”…
that characterization does not characterize me, and it is a very UN-subtle/JUVENILE characterization…especially as such people are MUCH rarer than the high M low V. i’ve only met 1 person, a jewish female, who was high V low M…i’ve met dozens of high M low V people.
it’s amazing how some people keep maturing intellectually past age 18, and some others do NOT. even when those others were very mature for their age…at age 18.
christophe lemaitre has claimed that black dominance of the sprints is largely due to blacks’ maturing faster than other races…
that is, if you’re slow at age X, you’ll quit sprinting…and you’ll be encouraged to quit.
this proposition has proven false in the case of lemaitre…but fingers crossed.
the same criticism is valid for academic achievement. and this in two respects.
1. one may be smarter than his peers at age 18 and thus find school easier.
2. one may believe that academia is a legitimate occupation rather than just another scam. and thus one is not alienated from school. one loves school. one thrives in school.
prof shoe is this type. his intellectual and moral development has been arrested at age 18. his worldview is some kung-fu movie.
needless to say, if one’s intellectual development crosses a certain threshold he sees “as plain as day” that academia (post the 8th grade) is just a scam and boondoggle and that teachers and professors simply aren’t that bright.
i forget the source, but the report was that teenagers with IQs 150 had the same likelihood of being hs drop-outs in the US. and it was a legit source. it wasn’t hearsay.
i myself am a hs drop-out of a sort.
that is, i left mid-way through my senior year to take courses at the local state university in lieu of hs.
my parents were cunts, but they acceded to my request after thinking that it would be good for my social development…never mind my intellectual development.
my parents are basically “inverse-snobs”…my dad was a lot like prof shoe in education…that is, he attended a university hs, and his dad was a prof and he went to harvard, whereas shoe went to cal-tech…my dad is a cunt and a failure, but the reason for this is not that he was more vicious than prof shoe, though he likely is…it’s that he realized that winning a stupid game isn’t winning.
why would a WASP play a game that had become dominated by niggers or chinks or kikes?
he wouldn’t.
i forget the source, but the report was that teenagers with IQs 150 had the same likelihood of being hs drop-outs in the US. and it was a legit source. it wasn’t hearsay.
As I’ve mentioned, the smartest person i ever knew told me that up to half the people he knew throughout his life above 150 IQ were at risk of being failures by conventional standards. But I dismissed his finding based on small sample size & because studies of super gifted kids have not shown anything like this (though super gifted kids do not nessecarily become super gifted adults)
i have learned from experience that…
complexity and subtlety are two different things.
That’s an interesting dichotomy. I used to argue with another super high IQ person because i felt the smartest people were scientists and he felt they were artists, including Hollywood actors, because art requires nonlinear thinking which he felt was much more g loaded than linear thinking.
At the time this came as a surprise because i grew up thinking the arts was for stupid people.
Chartreuse, you’ll never understand GCTA. I’ve linked this paper proving that IQ genes have been replicated but you’ve ignored it every time. Do you concede that you’re wrong?
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289615001087
i admit only that you have a cunt that needs fucking.
The average between-population frequency (polygenic score) of nine alleles positively and significantly associated with intelligence is strongly correlated to country-level IQ (r = .91).
gibberish to me…and likely to those who wrote it.
1. GCTA does NOT identify individual alleles. GWAS does! there’s a difference carl.
2. no GCTA study has been done on the populations for which its proponents have made “conclusions”.
3. no GWAS study for IQ has been replicated.
wtf is a “metagene”?
The majority of the alleles (seven out of nine) loaded positively on this metagene.
…
Allele frequencies varied by continent in a way that corresponds with observed population differences in average phenotypic intelligence.
of course they did you fucking retards…because:
1. people differ genetically from place to place, and…
2. IQ differs from place to place.
the gene for a jew-fro is associated with higher IQ…who woulda thunk it?
chinese baby penis:
i have detailed the ONLY study that would ONCE AND FOR ALL prove whether or not…
one should suck jewish cock for all eternity or suck hitler’s wienerschnitzel or suck a chinese rice dick…
still waiting on that study.
you don’t even understand that GCTA and GWAS are two different things carltard.
never ending arguments are for girls.
men argue for…at most 15 minutes…and the winner is clear.
FOX news and MSNBC are for girls.
how many gay and gina blogs are there on HBD?
i admit only that you have a cunt that needs fucking carl.
The average between-population frequency (polygenic score) of nine alleles positively and significantly associated with intelligence is strongly correlated to country-level IQ (r = .91).
gibberish to me…and likely to those who wrote it.
1. GCTA does NOT identify individual alleles. GWAS does! there’s a difference carl.
2. no GCTA study has been done on the populations for which its proponents have made “conclusions”.
3. no GWAS study for IQ has been replicated.
wtf is a “metagene”?
The majority of the alleles (seven out of nine) loaded positively on this metagene.
…
Allele frequencies varied by continent in a way that corresponds with observed population differences in average phenotypic intelligence.
of course they did you fucking retards…because:
1. people differ genetically from place to place, and…
2. IQ differs from place to place.
the gene for a jew-fro is associated with higher IQ…who woulda thunk it?
chinese baby penis (carl):
i have detailed the ONLY study that would ONCE AND FOR ALL prove whether or not…
one should suck jewish cock for all eternity or suck hitler’s wienerschnitzel or suck a chinese rice dick…
still waiting on that study.
ONLY!
ONLY!
ONLY!
you don’t even understand that GCTA and GWAS are two different things carltard.
never ending arguments are for girls.
men argue for…at most 15 minutes…and the winner is clear.
FOX news and MSNBC are for girls.
how many gay and gina blogs are there on HBD?
i admit only that you have a cunt that needs fucking carl.
The average between-population frequency (polygenic score) of nine alleles positively and significantly associated with intelligence is strongly correlated to country-level IQ (r = .91).
gibberish to me…and likely to those who wrote it.
1. GCTA does NOT identify individual alleles. GWAS does! there’s a difference carl.
2. no GCTA study has been done on the populations for which its proponents have made “conclusions”.
3. no GWAS study for IQ has been replicated.
wtf is a “metagene”?
The majority of the alleles (seven out of nine) loaded positively on this metagene.
…
Allele frequencies varied by continent in a way that corresponds with observed population differences in average phenotypic intelligence.
of course they did you fucking retards…because:
1. people differ genetically from place to place, and…
2. IQ differs from place to place.
the gene for a jew-fro is associated with higher IQ…who woulda thunk it?
chinese baby penis (carl):
i have detailed the ONLY study that would ONCE AND FOR ALL prove whether or not…
one should suck jewish cock for all eternity or suck hitler’s wienerschnitzel or suck a chinese rice dick…
still waiting on that study.
ONLY!
ONLY!
ONLY!
redacted
Sorry JS, I had to redact that incredibly vicious comment. The man was father, and his family is grieving.
If you want to insult someone, insult me. But for God’s sakes, give the people of Ontario time to grieve.
Rob Ford was a terrible guy. He belongs in America with the other White trash.
This is the first time I see Pumpkin Person showing signs or morality. Congratulations. Eventhough Ford was not the most deserving person on earth.
Afrosapiens, I’m a lot more moral than you are because I tell the truth. You just repeat politically correct talking points.
“I’m a lot more moral than you are because I tell the truth.”
This sentence is totally dogmatic.
Well you know, those politically correct things I repeat also happen to be scientifically correct.
Well you know, those politically correct things I repeat also happen to be scientifically correct.
I will grant that it’s possible HBD has exaggerated the degree than intelligence and group differences therein are genetic, but the notion that there are no genes for intelligence or no group differences in genetic intelligence, is just magical thinking.
Can you estimate the IQ for Robbie Ford?
Chartreuse has an agenda here, I do not know if you noticed.
He’s too smart to further complicate things and not to reduce the burden of complexity that this subject have.
You already know about my position on ” iq ”.
The iq is a very complete mental game that measures the purely cognitive potential, if we were robots, perhaps the cognitive tests actually had the level of correlation with ” intelligence ” that you believe this have.
However, we are not purely cognitive and machines and there are different types of cognitive characteristics.
The cognitive tests, as I’ve said a few times, measures someone’s ability to offer technical work and correlates with almost all aspects of intelligence, correlate is not the same as being, intrinsic, to express perfectly.
The problem about the fetishism iq is very deep because starting in the conceptual basis of what we understand as intelligence.
Most psychometricians it seems are unable to tolerate any degree of subjectivity in combination with different perspectives of objectivity, whether for cognitive tests or any other aspect that expresses intelligent behavior or lack thereof.
Just as it is impossible to discuss decently with a lefty on all its flaws beliefs, the same happens with the fetishists iq that are fully convinced that the cognitive tests are totally perfect expressions of human intelligence, confusing correlations with intrinsicabilities, the perfect conceptual mirroring, the concept to its multitude of literal manifestations. The iq is a means, it is a channel that was created to search for the perceived essence of intelligence.
it is too subtle for those who think themselves subtle, and too too subtle for those who don’t know what “subtle” means…
mass media in america and canuckistan and the anglosphere in general is PROPAGANDA.
it is stalin’s loud speakers.
the audience is listening…
the audience is DEAF…
the audience has been DEAFENED.
…
we are all made of stars.
Rome’s 2.0 = The Anglo-Fallen-Sphere
Bread & Circus, the most profitable and prolific business, in the English Prole world!
What Coulter says is just factually incorrect.
I’m glad the media doesn’t even dignify her anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpV2dTCSEzM ;
“you just make sh*t up”
Anyway, Ann Coulter thinks you and I are ‘third world savages’, my Portuguese diaspora brother.
I think she’s a shemale, c’e la vie! 😉
She’s like a hyena, i mean, she have a hyper-developed clitoris like a femenazis, 🙂
Portugal is a truly second world in living standard.
People said that southern europeans are lazy and northern europeans are efficient…
there is a truth based on this perspective of the worker. But in other perspectives, the reality will be different.
ok, the northern ones are efficient slaves who are supporting their own ethnocide.
Southern are bon vivant, they prefer live first to work after. They know how to live.
Of course, they are on average (collectively) less cognitively smarter than northernwestern europeans but there are tons of diversity or subjectivity in this kind of value-judgment.
It’s not just ”iq” or even personality type preponderance but also a different type of lifestyle AND southern europeans are more right than northern.
Technology increase superficial entertainment and maximize ”efficience” but reduce true existential/literal entertainment as is closer to their family and appreciate the simple events of the life.
Efficience = ugly ”modern”, polluted and urbanized cities with POLITICALLY correct zombies and pop culture (mickey cyrhosis and other shit). Ok, there are good things that was created in this environment, british rock bands, modern japanese culture, etc
the eternal problem = be or not.
be efficient, gray asphalt and cold interpersonal relationships OR be lazy or slow-motion, with pretty beautiful historical cities and with inflamed familiar/communitary/interpersonal relationships.
To be wise is to know the right hour to do everything, organize the time to their rights and their duties.
I agree with pretty much all of what you said. Southern European by definition may not be much different intellectually from Northern, but degrees of admixture may be.
I, generally like Southern Europeans. they seem to be less f*cked in the head as compared to Northern Europeans, in general, of course. They’re more understanding of human flaw, like you said, they “live first”. That’s a lot of it. Honestly, who would want to live as a commoner in the U.K., or Ireland, or any other Northern European Country that is not completely loaded? Not me.
Another William,
i think industrial revolution was much more deep in countries like UK, this transitional lifestyle between country-side and cities were more preserved in regions with older urban areas like Emilia Toscana, a lot of average cities with strong connections with rural/culturally traditional areas and with ”incomplete” territorial industrialization.
Northern Spain, Italy, France and Portugal are more similar with northern european lifestyle (the worker lifestyle) and we know that there are psycho-ethnic differences among european subraces like mediterraneans versus nordics.
South, less cognitively smart, more relaxed average personality and subsequently relaxed lifestyle.
”I agree with pretty much all of what you said. Southern European by definition may not be much different intellectually from Northern, but degrees of admixture may be.”
Intellectually talking, most human beings tend to be inside the normalcy spectrum. There are little but consistent qualitative-cultural prefferences that reflects intellect(ual) skills or ”potential”.
What differentiates europeans of different regions are average personalities that prevails and cognitive skills (quantitative potential to ‘learn’ superficially) that are different than intellectual.
Intellectual is pure reasoning, meta-thinking or meta-cognition while cognitive is about learning some technics and apply it correctly.
Higher cognitive skills tend to correlate with intellectual skills but it is a correlation and not a intrinsicabilly, the perfect reflect, mirror, the same way happen with iq and intelligence correlations.
Pumpkin, have you seen the new survey of intelligence experts on their consensus on the causes of cross-national differences in intelligence? Links:
http://drjamesthompson.blogspot.ca/2016/03/what-intelligence-researchers-think.html
Yes, I saw that on twitter. Not surprising.
Make your next post about it, noting that the main strain of opinions in intelligence research hasn’t changed.
Fighter Pilot Challenge: try to avoid the blocks
http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/Games/pilotTrainer/pilotTrainer.html
I made it to 16 seconds. I remember trying the same game a couple of years ago, but I was very unsatisfied.
How many seconds do the readers here achieve?
Hi,
after a 5 minutes warmup on dispraxia mod (first try 2 seconds haha) i made it to 21.075.
i think with a bit of training everybody can reach far beyond 22 !
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/far-left-crank-michael-moore-to-open-his-michigan-mansion-to-syrian-refugees/
http://www.psmag.com/health-and-behavior/liberals-conservatives-solve-problems-differently
A bunch of bullshit what ”psycho-logistic” become or always was….
”liberais” on average solve problems************
avg libs are completely idiotic with little feet with reality.
”Solve problems” importing problems to cause more problems, very ”insightfull”.
I’m very good to analyse people and i’m still searching for REAL smart communist and not just a verbosen pathological liars.
thank you white sheeple
a new world war is soon…
a hegelian moment…perhaps…
it is interesting how individualism in the abstract and at its extreme becomes collectivism.
that is, when one assumes that he is who he is independent of the time and place he was born into, has lived in, and currently lives in…
this is equivalent to saying that human societies are like the natural world. that is, they don’t vary much over time as measured by a human life span or 10,000 human life spans.
so one sees in the US that the most arrant individualist ideology actually produces a society much like stalin’s soviet union in its requirements of obedience, ideological purity, amorality, group think, etc.
as one of the original english language translators of Sein und Zeit said…
contemporary mass media makes soviet magaphones like whispers.
the inability of hereditists to grasp the concept of norms of reaction is recapitulated in two other psychological phenomena:
1. the insistence that one belong to one side or another of any “debate”, especially that one be either a “conservative” or a “liberal”. this false dichotomy is sold to the masses by mass media morons and their evil masters, but it’s not a hard sell.
2. in professor shoe’s theory that all who disagree with his arrant hereditism are “high v, low m”…ignoring that m isn’t even a factor of IQ tests, and that peter schoenemann was very anti-hereditism as are almost all genuine geneticists…and genetics does NOT include “behavior genetics”.
pumpkinperson-
You should estimate the IQ of embattled Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff. Very, very influential.
Thanks. Added to my long waiting list.
bd-ah-zee-oo…
is the country of the future…
and it always will be.
but EWZ is up by 55% since jan 21 of this year
should have put your chips on that peepee.
Well, Brazil’s economy may be doing well.
The country has struggled to keep itself together, it was too big, with much ethnic tension, plus the far-right economic policies typical of Latin America, in combination with the ethnic diversity, caused a lot of tensions and a negative situations.
From what I’ve been told, guns are banned, and like in many cities in the U.S., the whites feel unable to protect themselves from the blacks, who they see as criminal, in general.
She brought so many major reforms and began to change the economy for the better, so I think those problems would be WORSE without her. I honestly don’t really know, however.
That also doesn’t mean she’s perfect.
Brazilian economy was doing well BECAUSE
– commodities
– internal market
Brazil’s economy is not doing that well because of
-corruption
-administrative maze
-taxation on imports
-Brazilian work ethics
-disastrous infrastructures
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/world/americas/cunha-rousseff-brazil-impeachment.html?_r=0
This woman is tough as nails;http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/world/americas/cunha-rousseff-brazil-impeachment.html?_r=0
I would not want to mess with her.
A great asset to the proud Portuguese people.
Or as Anglo-American Proles would say; the “therd wurld mongrol peple”
Just as the Castros are sealing their legacy, so will she.
If you are being obstructed by the lesser-IQ Blacks you just control them more, help them, help themselves. You overcome isolation as the smart country in your region.
She may survive this.
A left-oriented Economy obviously works better. Screw American proles who say otherwise.
Apparently George Soros is going to try to instigate a Brazilian Civil War as a precursor to the World Wide race war.
All the low-IQ American fuckwits are going to be forced to see that Latin America actually means something when the economy plummets over lack of confidence and such after Brazil.
Brazil’s economy is not doing that well because of
-corruption
-administrative maze
-taxation on imports
-Brazilian work ethics
-disastrous infrastructures
Also,
and RACE
Well, I’ve heard the gun thing is a big issue…….relating to race. The views of people in Brazil seem to be similar to that of the white minorities in major cities with gun bans, like D.C., New York. OF COURSE that relates to race.
The sad part is that some whites (typically stupid anyway, but….) think that the made-up Hispanic “race” is going to turn the U.S. into Brazil. If you’re black but from Latin America, you’re not black, you’re latino. Just a fun tidbit about the foolishness of some Americans…
“and RACE”
Are you talking about the white elite that corrupts every area of the admistrative system and send their corporate profits offshore ? Well, that’s an interesting outlook. and Argentina and Uruguay are not much better places than Brazil, there is a serious white probleme in the Southern cone.
“Well, I’ve heard the gun thing is a big issue…….relating to race. The views of people in Brazil seem to be similar to that of the white minorities in major cities with gun bans, like D.C., New York. OF COURSE that relates to race.”
Brazil is not a society in black and white, it has 50 shades of privilege and prejudice.
you are correct sir.
my parents lived there for 2 y, and…
“he came out dark in that picture” was said to them by an afro-brazilian.
they even have a phrase “cabelo ruim”…ruined hair…meaning kinky hair.
argentina was one of the 10 richest countries in the world a century ago.
explanation:
1. runaway inequality
2. the panama canal
3. iberian culture…that is, spain and portugal are the armpit of western europe…or were until recently…politically just as unstable as latin america and with very high inequality…of course nazis would blame it on some invented pollution of iberia’s “aryan” blood…but spain was the richest and most powerful country on earth for 150 years…so that’s bullshit…and despite being short and swart the iberians are just as european, genetically, as the swedes.
“iberian culture…that is, spain and portugal are the armpit of western europe…”
Oh yes, I couldn’t put it in any better way. The truth is that hadn’t Spain and Portugal joined the European Union, they would be barely more developed than Romania, Turkey or Argentina.
Argentines, Urugayans and Brazilians have an inferiority complex about their Iberian heritage and proudly claim any drop of German, French, Italian, Ukrainian or Lebanese blood that runs in their veins, silencing their mostly Spanish/Portuguese ancestry by calling themselves Italian-Argentines or German-Brazilians.
Holy shit its you! Did Robert ever unban you?
I’m talking about half ape thugs who most masses ”learn” with mtv, michael jackson and bruce springsteen to call ”full humans”.
most of white brazilian elites are not whites,
well, i’m not advocating for white-moral purity, if you don’t know,
whites on average are good ROBOTS,
every human group are inferior by their own domain,
”even” your precious brothers…
THE MOST difference between us is that
you HAVE sacred cows
i NO HAVE any, even homossexuals, many-to-most them are just zombie-like-penis.
There are few really virtuous people among human-kind and you’re not one them, this rare and brave human beings and showing it all the time.
I was obsessive with left handed people because i’m left handed. this group was the last that i associate myself, no more.
Of course there are a lot of full PSYCHOPATHIC (class obsessive like you) white, jewish and other shit in the brazilian elites. brazilian elites specially the upper-upper class, with a lot of jews (of course), whites AND socially whitezed mullatos, as happen unfortunately in virtually most countries are psychopathic in their roots.
Black people have higher proportion of low-functioning criminals if compared with other groups, on average. There are black populations with lower % of this type, but the demographically prevalent group in Africa, Americas or Europe, are, you want or not, more proportionally criminal.
this higher proportion of problematic alpha criminal effusive men among demographically prevalent black populations produce this real and correct perception that as a group they are inferior than whites, for example.
In certain perspective, it’s right.
In other comparative perspective, it’s wrong because you are comparing apples with strawberries.
in the third perspective, deeply philosophical (contemplative) ones, it’s don’t care much.
whites are superior robots than blacks.
In the pre-historical past, non-human factors and unique environmental factors (for example, the european victory in Lepanto or in Wien or the control of fire) were modelling this differences.
maktub
or
stubbornness ****
it all happened before i was born…or almost all of it…but…
i’ve become fully cognizant of a very interesting phenomenon…
hitherto i only suspected it…
now i’m convinved…
roger daltrey was right…
pop music has been dead since the late 70s, at the latest, and will never be resurrected, because…
music is finite…
there are only so many good songs…
and they’ve all been done.
jazz has been dead since monk.
classical music has been dead since beethoven.
wagner is sui generis…
heil hitler.
rap and whatever all ya like. it’s all crap.
break on through to the other side.
And yet Afro Sapiens fail to mention or deny the fact that foreign investment, especially in infrastructure, are pouring into Africa by the Chinese and even the continent’s former White oppressors.
Go on — rant how blacks are just like everyone else!
When a government contracts foreign firms to build infrastructure, it is not considered investment since the owner of the project is the state. Chinese firms build cheap public works of disputable quality in some African countries and provide the loans to buy them, they did it in Poland, in Turkey, in Greece… I don’t see the problem here.
Regarding to investment (FDI)
“First, on the scale of China’s direct investment in Africa, Chinese statistics on what they call “overseas direct investment” (ODI) show a stock of $26 billion in Africa as of the end of 2013. This number would amount to about 3 percent of total foreign direct investment (FDI) on the continent. UNCTAD’s World Investment Report 2015 similarly finds that the flow of Chinese FDI to Africa during 2013-2014 was 4.4 percent of the total to the continent. The European Union countries, led by France and the United Kingdom, are the overwhelmingly largest investors in Africa. The U.S. is also significant, and even South Africa invests more on the continent than China does. Clearly, China’s FDI does not meet the extreme heights many believe.”
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/africa-in-focus/posts/2015/09/03-china-africa-investment-trade-myth-chen-dollar-tang
Chinese investment is a tiny share of the continent’s total foreign capital stock and inflow. And once again, I don’t see the issue here. I don’t know of any development-minded government that is not trying to make its country attractive to foreign capital. That’s how China started to develop, with special economic zones that offered (and still offer) foreign investors various advantages. Back in in the 19th century, each European power had its investment-protegée France had Russia, Germany had the Ottoman Empire, Britain had Argentina…
I don’t really understand the point of your comment.
is mssr afrosapiens a boer?
because he isn’t a boor or a bore.
afrosapiens and pumpkin its been a year since i last posted.idk if u remember me? Im the mixed race guy with the 6 ft 4 sister. She has always had a ear genious lvl iq. Im the guy who is 6ft 2 had ADD had an IQ of 85 with a 9th grade education. no father/family and a deadbeat abusive mom and an unhealthy diet.and then when i finnaly managed to get out of that environment over a period of 4-6 months my IQ skyrocketed to 120 and i no longer have ADD and now a year later m progressing in a succsesful career as a salesman.I used to post on here arguing the theory of how you turn out in life is 50% genes 50% environment. Although now after taking an ethnicity dna test and finding out that im 51% african 46% european and 3% Asian im wondering if genes are 100% how you turn out or not. And i would like both afro and pumpkins oppinion. (The Iq boost could have been from becoming an adult since i left home at 18)
Yes I remember you. When people are tested on reputable IQ tests (i.e. WISC, WAIS) under proper conditions (trained examiner, enough sleep, no influence of drugs, alcohol) then measured IQ is an excellent predictor of genetic IQ, by later adulthood (not so much in children) for the vast majority of Americans.
However some of your testing occurred young, and potentially on low quality tests given under poor conditions so without knowing more specifics, it’s hard to judge.
peepee is an IQ expert with a VERY low IQ.
The only actual IQ score you have was lower than mine.
once again you’re a compulsive liar.
1. peepee has no “actual” IQ score
2. she doesn’t know what an “actual ” IQ score is
3. as misdreavus said, “tards gonna tard.”
I have both WISC scores that were higher than yours, and extremely high (top 1%) chronometric scores.
you do NOT have higher WISC scores.
you’re LYING again.
and chronometric scores are 100% MEANINGLESS.
Actually chronometric scores are perhaps the most meaningful of all.
And yes, I’m pretty sure my WISC scores were higher than yours based on what I can estimate from what you’ve revealed about your WISC scores.
But that doesn’t mean I’m smarter than you now. It’s possible you have some IQ genes that didn’t express themselves until after puberty, hence your impressive SATs/GREs.
just more LIES peepee.
you DON’T have any WISC scores.
if you do, SHOW THEM TO ME.
# This data file generated by PLINK at: Mon Mar 16 00:45:55 2015
#
# Below is a text version of your data. Fields are TAB-separated.
# Each line corresponds to a single SNP. For each SNP, we provide its
# identifier, its location on a reference human genome, and the genotype call.
# For further information (e.g. which reference build was used), consult the
# original source of your data.
#
# rsid chromosome position genotype
rs187298206 1 51476 TT
rs190291950 1 52144 TT
rs140052487 1 54353 CC
rs2949420 1 55394 TT
rs193242050 1 55416 GG
rs187434873 1 55816 GG
rs191890754 1 55850 CC
rs184233019 1 55852 GG
rs143342222 1 56644 AA
rs56992750 1 61462 TT
rs190553843 1 61993 CC
I am trying to find my original WISC score report, but it’s not easy because I was tested over 20 years ago.
I don’t doubt you’re in the BGI study, but college admission tests are a bit biased in favor of those who studied math and attended good schools and they don’t measure all of intelligence. Your WISC scores also need to be considered.
You need to humble yourself and learn to have respect for opinions you disagree with.
You don’t know and understand as much as you think.
like gayman, peepee is so dumb she thinks she’s an expert.
she’s the pupil, not the teacher.
I allow robust debate and extreme criticism. If someone wants to teach me something, I welcome the education. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to accept it uncritically. You have to back it up with facts and logic.
you allow nothing peepee.
you’re a trans man, and you’re non-white.
and you want to disguise this perversion from your mentally retarded readers…all 3 of them.
You’re right. I’m a non-white trans-man with only 3 retarded readers. I’ve allowed you to say that 100 times. Now can you please talk about GCTA?
as expected peepee does NOT believe in free speech.
only the speech which advances her CHINESE SUPREMACISM.
hongcouver should be nuked.
No I don’t believe in childish speech.
If you have a problem with Chinese supremacism, then write about it maturely.