It seems that scientists and bloggers in the fields of evolutionary psychology, behavioral genetics and anthropology can be divided into three camps: HBD deniers, HBD moderates, and HBD extremists.
HBD deniers: These are people who believe that intelligence and other mental traits did evolve in humans, but it generally took hundreds of thousands of years for significant changes to occur, thus while different species within the genus homo may differ genetically in intelligence and other mental traits, there are no (or few) such significant differences between races. Most scientists are HBD deniers, at least publicly.
HBD moderates: These are people who believe that intelligence and other mental traits did evolve in humans, but it generally took tens of thousands of years for significant changes to occur, thus while different races within the species homo may differ genetically in intelligence and other mental traits, there are no (or few) such significant differences between ethnic groups within races. People like J.P. Rushton, Arthur Jensen, Michael Hart and Richard Lynn are probably mostly in the HBD moderate camp, since they often link population differences in behavior to ancient long lasting forces like exposure to the ice age, and feel it took 50,000 to 110,000 years for the 15-20 point black-white IQ gap to evolve. HBD moderates get attacked by HBD deniers for focusing on racial differences instead of the less controversial ethnic differences, and they get attacked by HBD extremists for ignoring all the recent evolution the extremists assert.
HBD extremists: These are people who believe that intelligence and other mental traits did evolve in humans, and it took only thousands or even hundreds of years for significant changes to occur, thus even very similar ethnic groups within the same race show large genetic differences. An example of this view is the book The 10,000 year explosion which argued that a 10+ point IQ gap between Ashkenazi Jews and the Caucasoid gentiles they split off of, evolved in only 800 years! Most of the HBD blogosphere would fall in the HBD extremist camp, regardless of whether they focus on intelligence, or other behavioral traits.
And into which camp do you fall?
I’m in between the moderate and extremist. I think some within race ethnic IQ gaps might be genetic, but environment is the more likely suspect in those cases
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/22/zimbabwes-robert-mugabe-awarded-chinas-nobel-peace-prize
mugabe is very very smart…especially in the genetic sense.
and his demon-ization by the english language media is proof, if you needed it, that the english speaking countries are the world’s demons…and need to be exorcised.
look at this peepee: http://www.salon.com/2015/10/23/a_peace_prize_for_mugabe_the_double_speak_behind_chinas_answer_to_the_nobel_award/
and use your social intelligence…
are the chinese really a bunch of douche bags?
really?
is the west…in america’s thrall…really the truth?
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-10-22/longtime-zimbabwean-dictator-robert-mugabe-wins-chinese-peace-prize
there’s enormous bias in the western media.
and those who aren’t biased?
there is bias against them.
they’ll never announce anything…at least not in the west.
look what happened to that scottish, but loveable, cunt george galloway.
he’s got a show on RT.
and snowden is marooned in Russia too.
america has been shit since my great … great grandfather (william bradford) jumped off the mayflower…
if ever a country approximated fecal matter…it’s les etats unis merdeux.
mugabe is very very smart…especially in the genetic sense.
Meaning if he had an identical twin raised and born in America’s upper class, the twin would score high on the WAIS-IV?
there are no (or few) such significant differences between races.
…and between people in the same race…which are caused by genes …that is, have an effect independent of the environment.
another way of putting it…
if one had 100 MZ twin pairs each carried by a different gestational surrogate and each raised by adoptive parents chosen at random from around the world…
the correlation in IQ and all other psychological traits would be greatly attenuated, so attenuated as to be meaningless.
and furthermore…
that HBD is just another form of what Marx called “false consciousness” in the prole HBDers, like Charles Murray, and ideology in the bourgeoisie.
just another means of blaming the individual rather than his society or the interaction of the individual and his society.
it’s part of the general “individualist ideology” which is FALSE, but is USEFUL…in the anglo-prole-sphere.
people believe things for at least 3 reasons at least:
1. they’re true
2. it is CONVENIENT to believe them
3. they trust in the common wisdom and in authority
if one had 100 MZ twin pairs each carried by a different gestational surrogate and each raised by adoptive parents chosen at random from around the world…
the correlation in IQ and all other psychological traits would be greatly attenuated, so attenuated as to be meaningless.
How low a heritability would you consider meaningless?
even if it were .5 i’d consider that meaningless. though i’d expect it would be much lower.
why?
because one of the gestures of ideology is to make virtues of whatever traits are rewarded by one’s society. i expect few societies don’t reward intelligence to some extent though the extent varies a great deal.
but in the case of other psychological traits…even if they mean the same thing around the world…what is virtue in one society may be vice in another in terms of the trait’s association with social status.
for example,
extroversion is very very prized in the united states. much more than anywhere else. this is not true in other countries and cultures. the japanese and the swiss for example are very introverted compared to the average american.
another thing HBDers don’t get:
the very concept of a psychological trait of this or that depends on the society and culture of the individual is a member of…
for example,
i forget the citation but a US normed personality test was given to a large group of randomly selected Taiwanese.
the Taiwanese scored as very “neurotic” and un-“conscientious” compared to the american average…exactly the opposite of what one thinks Chinese Americans might score.
ideology isn’t just a word peepee. it’s almost a force of nature. social psychology calls it “the just world phenomenon”.
Are East Asians more successful in Asia, where their introversion is more accepted?
I’m guessing they do about the same wherever they go (which is to say, pretty well).
yes obviously.
do you actually believe that s korean children are so much more likely to be autistic.
it’s just the imposition of american diagnostic criteria on s koreans…or maybe the parents get welfare for it…idk.
this is a very interesting book peepee needs to read…which she has plenty of time to do…if she can read:
america is a uniquely evil country. but not just to its own people. there have been empires before, but america’s empire isn’t physical…it’s mental.
rammstein gets it:
Even within the extremist camp you have two major subdivisions.
Firstly, there’s those who agree that evolution is both highly recent and highly localized, but believe that intervention in early childhood or in the “culture” can influence adult outcomes. I call them HBD conservatives or Darwinian conservatives because they mostly advocate for traditional families and traditional moral values. This includes a lot of the “neoreaction” types.
Then there’s the more scientific “behavioral genetics” types who believe that almost no environmental impacts influence adult outcomes save severe malnutrition, pathogens, brain damage, or wide-spread, global environmental changes (like government overthrow). So environmental differences within a society at a given time make no difference in individual outcomes.
I tend to side with the latter group: we’re all mere automatons defenseless against the drive of natural selection, which is relentless and ongoing; furthermore, trying to do anything about it is mostly useless. Yay! 🙂
the reduction of human beings and being human to science is impossible…but it’s sticky like a wet dream for the still adolescent HBDers.
the human and social “sciences” are necessarily un-scientific.
from economics to psychology to literary criticism it’s all a joke.
physical anthropology, archaeology, and the mere description of various human societies by social anthropologists and linguistics may be fairly scientific.
in fact, all of the merely descriptive FACTS are on the side of the liberals.
it’s only the theories that are sometimes against them.
and most people are so stupid they’ll dismiss all the facts just to hold onto their “beautiful/elegant/simplstic” theory.
Why do the dumbest people always study social sciences?
And the few in the social sciences who admit genetics always tend to be the smartest in their field (still dumber than hard scientists, though)…
ah…
use your intelligence…social intelligence.
at least in the united states a college degree is a class marker and therefore it must be available to more than can actually do it.
thus the real reason for what chomsky calls “the ideological subjects” is itself ideological…to allow stupid people to get degrees.
but having said that one needn’t be especially smart to earn a degree in engineering or biology and economics does have some very smart people. stiglitz was a national merit scholar. and krugman and bernanke both scored very high on their SAT. bernanke scored 1590!
it’s just that their brains have been totally wasted…not that they don’t have any.
and the idea that the smarter soc majors are hereditists is fiction.
and hard scientists tend to be even less inclined toward hereditism than soc scis so far as they express any opinion…they think all soc sci is bullshit.
but you might watch steve jones’s interview on charlie rose…he came on right after charles murray.
Actually I found this good post by Steve Hsu on why social scientists are dummies compared to the real scientists:
http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2015/09/expert-prediction-hard-and-soft.html
Anyhow, I think reductionism takes more intellect than mere description, so the intelligent are attracted to fields that do the former. This means taking data and coming up with explanations/models for the patterns one notices. Physics requires the most of that, biology and economics a little, and anthropology/sociology, as its practiced today, requires almost none at all.
Abstraction, which I think is related to reductionism, seems to be a strong point for physicists, but some argue that liberal ideology as practiced by left-wing social scientists/humanities people is also abstract. So one wonders why liberals have never been able to develop a true science of human nature…
Philosophy is not dumb social science, and certain areas of Psychology are STEM related.
physics is by far the EASIEST subject on every campus at every level.
steve shoe is a pushy striving uncreative chinaman.
Physics is probably easy if you have really high g, and especially high spatial ability. Upper-level humanities probably requires more conscientiousness/work/memorization than physics for high-g people, while requiring less g.
Most facts are not on the denier side.
For one example, well, how about the Hajnal Line?
http://psqtest.typepad.com/blogPostPDFs/ArsonistsAtTheCathedral_10-22-2015.pdf
dear God carl.
the Hajnal line is just another word for climate.
1. Western Europe (where all of my ancestors are from btw) is FREAKISHLY WARM for its latitude. check it out. it rarely snows in London and it’s rarely much colder in Edinburgh than it is in London.
2. Europe east of your line has a “continental” climate.
3. Europe west of your line has a “maritime” climate.
“continental” and “maritime” are technical terms.
I don’t subscribe to any of the material that comes out of HBD chick. She does write about Southern Euros and Muslims in a HBD context, which draws my attention.
HBD is mostly bunk science, with the exception of intelligence and behavioral disposition. Climate has a lot to do with it.
Have you read the link above?
As for the Hajnal line, how much of the stuff here do you disagree with:
http://lambdaphagy.tumblr.com/tagged/hajnal-line
https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/big-summary-post-on-the-hajnal-line/
Churchill – The Hajal Line that divides Western and Eastern Europe will become less significant, as we head into the mid 21st century.
With Westernization, countries in the Middle East are gradually seeing a loosening of extended families and collectivism.
Why not do a similar study on the United States? The most corrupt states are in the deep south. Inbreeding might be a core reason, if you take HBD into account!
Here’s some irony, Spain has lower trust culture than the United States, but Merica is certainly prolier and so is the UK.
When I visited Southern Spain a few years ago, I did not find trashy people like I did in London. Upon leaving Spain and heading to the UK, it was a nightmare for me.
And look at the Anglo-degnerate-sphere, consummate, yet very prole, concept of the individualist. Nothing to brag about Mr. Churchill!
just jive carl.
more interesting is what former Soviet Bloc countries are now considered to have advanced economies by the IMF.
the Baltics, Slovenia, and the Czech Republic and Slovakia.
but I agree that making Western Europe into america is a very bad idea and likely influenced by america.
real countries are homogeneous.
heterogeneous countries have never worked, because they can’t.
“real countries are homogeneous.
heterogeneous countries have never worked, because they can’t.”
You’re right. So many “cultural” traits are heritable and differ by nation, so it only makes sense to stratify peoples who evolved different traits.
The Hajnal line is only one example of that.
you’re right…that i’m right…but the reason you give isn’t the reason.
the nazi motto is “blut und boden”.
the HBDers’ is “blut und blut”, even though the blut of one’s society is itself a boden.
i am a PARTICULARIST.
and HBD is just another UNIVERSALISM…another judaism.
even though many jews have opposed HBD, the jews are the foremost promoters of UNIVERSALISM.
YET…Israel is the only officially ethno-state…japan is pretty close though.
the deafening promotion of UNIVERSALISM is ultimately from ONE source…america.
it’s so pathetic…
american and british HBDers tend to be “conservatives”, but if they were consistent they’d move to norway or denmark, if they could, and norway and denmark have…
1. the highest taxes in the developed world
2. the highest % of the labor force employed by government in the developed world
3. and for the average person both denmark and norway are much RICHER than the US or UK.
HBDers insist on playing the jews at their own game…and they always lose.
Mugabe Videla, I agree with you on one point:
The Anglo-prole-sphere, and America particular, promotes political correctness while being a bastion of HBDers. I think of Leo Strauss’s discussions of the exoteric vs. the esoteric whenever I see talking heads on TV discuss race and social issues in this country. Because I think we all know what they really think.
Economic conservatism/free market economics in this country only serves as facade for proles and HBDers afraid of minorities. Most of them would be economic liberals in another country.
I will be writing a blog post soon where I’ll make superforecasts on the economic and social future of the Anglo-prole-sphere. I’ll take into account the Jewish question, last place aversion, American proledom, the Big Sorting of the American Nations and social classes, and the Battle Royale that will occur within the Anglo-sphere’s/America’s class system. It’ll be fun!
indeed the anglo-sphere exports HBD and political correctness in matters of race.
america in particular.
american politics is about race. it always has been. the contemporary GOP has the same geographic distribution as the Democrats did 100 years ago. there’s been a complete flip of the two parties. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/1908_Electoral_Map.png
there is so much energy dedicated to the issue of race in america yet two things are always overlooked by mass media:
1. that the race issue is totally artificial and new to the human experience…and almost totally absent from real countries…rather than new world countries or old world former imperial powers.
2. that one small minority has absurdly outsized wealth and power…36% of the forbes 400…9/10 of the country’s largest landlords by sq ft (trump’s the only gentile)…etc.
Orwell (Eric Blair) intended 1984 as a satire of the Britain of his day just as much as a satire of Stalinism (he was a self-identified socialist)…
contemporary america-stan IS 1984 in a number of ways…
1. it’s the POOREST developed country…by median wealth per adult…or tied for last place with portugal, s korea, and israel…but behind GREECE!
2. it’s the most unequal developed country.
3. it has the lowest life expectancy.
4. it has the highest incarceration rate…even for whites.
5. it has the LEAST social mobility.
6. it has the largest trade DEFICIT as a % of its GDP except for the UK.
7. total federal welfare spending, including medicaid, is 11% of the total budget…the military is 18%.
8. it is still divided by North and South, white and black, etc.
9. it has the most expensive health care and education in the world and the worst health and test scores.
10. it’s the only country in the world that uses “holistic admissions” to its universities and colleges.
11….all of these are FACTS!…yet its population almost universally believes it’s “the greatest country in the world” and the opposite of most of the above FACTS…
the ministry of truth isn’t required when the population is so fucking stupid…and those whose job it is to report these FACTS…rarely do.
One of my reasons to get away from the Anglo-Prole-Sphere: A paucity of East Asians are found in non-Anglo Western domains, besides the usual Chinese restaurants.
East Asian and Jewish proles share commonalities of wealth hoarding, only made possible in English speaking colonies with a White majority.
Anglo-Prole-Sphere = Gold Digging Proles
even if you look just at the white population of the US, median wealth per adult is LOWER than it is in ITALY, FRANCE, AUSTRALIA, BELGIUM, (CANADA?)
and these countries don’t have nearly as large a racial underclass to exploit.
the us is a plantation economy. “labor” is just another commodity input of production. its technical companies are more often than not run by people with zero technical competence…econ BA, MBA, etc.
it’s quite telling that the most left wing candidate since mcgovern is from america’s richest and second whitest state, vermont.
yes. in terms of median household wealth vermont is the richest state in the union and only maine is whiter.
it’s also distinguished by having the only charterhouse in north america…stat crux dum volvitur orbis.
it was bolivar almost 200 years ago who said:
america is ungovernable. those who fought the revolution have plowed the sea.
by “america” he meant the americas.
and the reason was race.
what are the living standards for un-mixed europeans in latin america?
i wouldn’t be surprised if, in some countries (like Ecuador), they average as high as they do in the us.
the whole idea of colonization and the new world was a stupid idea motivated by greed.
how rich is the average white namibian? it doesn’t mean namibia doesn’t suck.
Videla, sounds like your problem is with white racists who vote Republican, not HBDers, though the two groups overlap
Mugabe how the hell is Israel an “ethnostate” when less than half are Ashkenazi Jews?
and needless to say…
in the contemporary world the foremost promoters of HBD are Americans and secondarily Brits. and, not coincidentally, the US and the UK are the two most unequal countries in the developed world…with the most rigid class structures…the least social mobility…canada on the other hand has almost no class structure at all.
ideology is easy to find if you know where to look.
Plomin is an American working in Britain. Visscher is an Australian.
not bloggers, but so-called behavior genetics is almost exclusivley…an anglo-american phenomenon.
the anglo-sphere is the last bastion of ideology. it won the world wars. it won the cold war. it’s exported its neo-liberalism to the far corners of the earth.
and even more than that…let’s look at the ancient history of racism…
guess what?
there isn’t any.
hbd was an INVENTION of the Bayreuth Circle and Gobineau and Herbert Spencer.
even today…say what you want about islam…but it’s TOTALLY UN-RACIST.
there was a roman emperor born in libya.
st augustine was a blackamoor.
racism is like obesity and hemorrhoids. something mostly modern and pathological.
Or in a more simplistic term, let’s call it the Anglow-pros-fair.
English Speaking Canada is gradually become that of its southernly neighbor, with income inequality and high living costs in general.
But one thing no one has mentioned, is the astronomical housing costs in the English Speaking world throughout. Its landlords are parasitical thieves.
You do have point about HBD being an Angloprolesfair phenomenon.
and in the case of IQ…
it’s just a misunderstanding of what the g factor is by HBDers, just like they misunderstand h^2…
that is, g is not a thing (or a ding-an-sich) which evolution could have selected for. g-loading is a characteristic of a test. for the individual g is a characteristic of the individual within a specific population at a specific time and place. that is, it is a characteristic of the individual qua member of a specific group…not a characteristic of the individual in an absolute sense.
different population. different g. different everything.
jews, if they have been selected recently, have been selected by charles murray’s (and my) means…that is, they have been selected by judaism itself…a totally artificial means of selection like dog breeding.
and they have been selected for VERBAL IQ, not g in its present sense.
contra cockring et al, the sephardim and mizrahim ARE over-represented among the rich and accomplished WHEN they’ve lived in developed countries…when they’ve had the opportunity…if they staid in Morocco or Algeria or Iraq, you’d’ve never heard of them. (but the ashkenazim do still dominate israeli society.)
So you agree Jews are genetically
more verbally smart? So you’re an HBDer just like the rest of us…
From my personal encounters, I find White gentiles to be more verbally gifted than Askhenazis. This is comparing the White elite and the Jewish elite. One professor I had, who was very verbally talented, is a Turkish-German woman. Many Turks are closely related to the Ashkenazis, and Germans, no doubt, are one of the smartest group of Euros.
Furthermore, modern day Greeks are genetically related to the Ashkenazi along with Turks. White Israelis are mostly of Ashkenazi stock. Both groups are not particularly bright and live in shoddy countries. Greece is a tar pit and Israel is a sand pit. To me, Turkey, seems more of an impressive country. Environment does play a role, which leads us to the nature vs nurture debate.
that’s more totally coherent word salad for peepee to digest.
she should eat more salad.
stop tossing salad.
and read heidegger or hegel or marx or better all three.
if you think i talk in a word salad…get a load of these guys…
when i was in hs they sounded like gibberish too. not any more.
the big salad peepee:
that’ll give ya gas.
And yes, Mr. Videla, Jewish Lion’s den are for proles. I post on his blog to remind them how prolish they’re (and so are many of his blogroll authors).
and then there’s the FACT that brain size has shrunk for humans since the ice age.
and this has happened all over the world.
explanations:
1. smaller head is an adaptation to higher temperature
2. the more convincing…
a. every domesticated animal has a smaller brain than its wild counterpart.
b. man domesticated animals first…he became a herder. then he domesticated plants…he became a farmer. then he domesticated himself…he became “civilized”.
sometimes i think i’m one of the few wild men left, and the rest are domesticated…sheeple.
Looking at the differences between me and my brother I can see how differences could add up over one thousand to two thousand years. Before the 19th century women had 8 children instead of 2.1 as the replacement rate today which means those children that survived formed diverse groups mentally. Mate selection has more to do with compatible personality than intelligence. People who are to different usually avoid each other.
Yesterday I went to my moms house and say him playing video games. Looking at that HD screen reminds me how I neglect my sensory perceptions. When I got my glasses in high school I could see all the leaves on the trees. Right now my frames are broken but when I get new ones I will be able read my computer screen better. My brother can see every pixel. It seems most of my energy is spent on abstract concepts and he is more mechanical. Perception is important for animal survival. The statue of david by michelangelo required perception and dexterity. Cognitive control in humans is dependant of how you shift attention. Multi-Object planning required “feeling” the directions of all components. The brain synchronizes all the steps. The more steps you can think of (synchronize) would allow strategic advantages. But if you do not require that many steps to survive you specialize at one task. If I wanted to I would do really well at martial arts.
It would be nice if their was an easier way to define/explain intelligence so that fewer people would dismiss it. Here are some papers I found recently about Intelligence.
http://ucrtoday.ucr.edu/31801
http://arxiv.org/abs/1505.06366
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/Papers/Giftednessmodel.pdf
http://www.wired.com/2015/10/scientists-can-now-predict-intelligence-brain-activity
The use of this word extremists is inappropriate because of it’s strongly negative connotation which harms the individuals who fall in this category.
The key dividing line, which I discerned very clearly thanks to an anthropology class with a politically correct professor, is 50ka when the major human races branched out from each other. This also seems to be the official position of mainstream US anthropology.
After that date – 50,000 years ago – you absolutely must not allow for any possibility that evolution could have acted on different human populations to create any substantial differences in cognitive behavior and capabilities. This made discussing things like, say, how the Gravettians displaced the earlier Aurignacians in Europe seem like walking on thin ice, with the professor taking great care to steer classroom discussions away from… certain avenues of inquiry. This was rather funny to observe.
Yes, your professor reminds me of some I’ve had. LOL!
So PP, it seems like HBD is becoming an accepted reality:
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/10/27/study-finds-race-growing-explanatory-factor-sat-scores-california
Race is more important than family background when it comes to the SAT.
Are certain races are more prone to pleasure activities or lack control/discipline to give up pleasure for pain in order to gain? — No pain – No Gain.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2001098/Black-minority-children-watch-50-cent-TV-day-whites-90-sets-bedrooms–study-finds.html
Pumpkinperson, what do you think an HBD denier and HBD moderate will say when they see this video:
So I can get a feel for what the distinction is when it comes to deep HBD evidence.
Now that I think of it, most HBD deniers on this blog are too math illiterate to understand Hsu