If intelligence is the mental ability to adapt, we should expect smart people to get to the top (generally speaking).
On page 35 of the book A Question of Intelligence, journalist Dan Seligman brilliantly writes:
Gangster John Gotti, who long headed the Gambino organized crime family, tested at 110 in Franklin K. Lane High School in Brooklyn; a figure that sounds quite plausible. In Crime and Human Nature, published in 1985, James Q Wilson and Richard J Herrnstein present data indicating that criminals tend to have IQs clustered around 90. In a sense, then, you can think of Gotti’s rise to mob stardom as basically concordant with the general rule that smart people get to the top.
Critics of IQ tests will often concede that high IQ people get to the top, but argue that it’s only because IQ scores (or the proxies like SATs) create a self-fulfilling prophecy, where only those who score high are allowed to get the credentials to succeed.
For example, back in 1995, scholar Robert Sternberg stated:
If you have a high IQ, even if you come from a not very affluent home, you are going to be rewarded by our society for it. If you come from a poor home and you do well on the SATs, Yale and Harvard and Princeton will all be begging to have you so that they can claim diversity. That’s the ticket to success.
But John Gotti rose to the top, because he had a high IQ, not because he had a high IQ score. He was a high school dropout who clawed his way to the top of the criminal hierarchy through sheer ruthlessness and adaptability. He’s an example of how smart people get to the top naturally, we don’t need tests like the SAT to force it to happen. It happens on its own. Brain size tripled in 4 million years of human evolution because smart primates are successful naturally. There was no SAT test one million years ago to decide who gets to prosper, life itself was the test.
The Gambino crime family had about 2000 members according to wikipedia. Making the oversimplified assumption that the average IQ was 90 with a standard deviation of 15, the smartest member should have had IQ of 140 (50 points above the average).
But the correlation between IQ and income (and probably worldly success in general) is about 0.4, so the most successful criminal in the Gambino crime familiy should only be 40% as far above average as the brightest criminal: 0.4(50) + 90 = 110. So the simple linear 0.4 correlation between IQ and worldly success perfectly predicted Gotti’s score on a school IQ test, taken decades before his future success. In many ways, IQ is destiny.
Gotti reminds me of myself in the sense that we both rose to the top of a controversial field becoming famous in the process. Gotti rose to the top of the crime world, and ruled over 2000 criminals. I rose to the top of the HBD world and rule over 2000 daily readers. The difference is, the HBD blogosphere is way smarter than the crime world, so I probably needed far more IQ than he did.
Broken disk??? Jesus, Buddha, Satan, Motherfucker therese…. Seligman is a very suspect surname. In other times, during anglo-domination era in Uass, this mentally disturbed man no doubt that would conclude differently.
Intelligence in social societies work perfectly when is utilitary and not only as social status for parasites. Capisce?!?
Adaptation is a proxy to intelligence specially for less mentally complex species. Their fake talented and pseudo-geniuses never made nothing substantially effective for really improve the collective of well-being but is difficult for you to understand and ACCEPT this reality.
You are so obssessive to prove their point of views that even explicit criminals can be used as “smarter”.
You never talk about intelligence and their multidimensional nature, ever talk about their stupid iq. I’m not a iq or hbd-deniers, but no have chance to continue without make relevant and uneducated criticisms about their simplism ( and hbd in general). You are not really worry to study objectively and holisticly what the human, ‘animal’ and universal intelligence really are.
As i said some times, try to see and analyse what do not explicit. 30% of posts are based in repetition about appearence of cognitive dynamic in modern societies. Like if you look to tree and conclude “it’s a tree”. Hierarchical and cognitive unilateralized always will select a specific group. The reality is not only the way as is builded.
Capacity to accumulate egoisticaly resources is a primitive capacity that correlate with higher primitive capacity. All about this blog is also about the blogger. In all human activities and achievements happens exactly the same way. But, some personal perspectives are more fair and correct.
You never talk about intelligence and their multidimensional nature, ever talk about their stupid iq. I’m not a iq or hbd-deniers, but no have chance to continue without make relevant and uneducated criticisms about their simplism ( and hbd in general). You are not really worry to study objectively and holisticly what the human, ‘animal’ and universal
What multidimensional nature? Are you saying you don’t believe that all of intelligence can be summed up by a single number? Then you believe in multiple intelligences (i.e. howard Gardner )
Yep but i also ‘believe’ in cognitive natural inequality, superficially expressed by iq. Two theories work better when are together than when are separated and in mutual conflict.
Multidimensional nature of human intelligence by combination between ‘multiple’ intelligences theory and natural cognitive inequality, both expressing the complex-diversity of human and non-human intelligences, like combination by dna, Aa, AA…
Multidimensional nature of intelligence
Example: my father is a non-verbally and technically smart than me but i’m intellectually-verbally smart than him. To certain perspective by comparison, my father is smarter than me but by other comparative perspective , i’m smarter. Intelligence like psychology understand or try to understand, is very abstract. All of real objects or matter are multidimensional. Intelligence, concept to literal or physiological manifestation, is part of human BIO-DIVERSITY, by individual to collective. Our vision is capable to see many perspectives of the same object. The same happen for the object “intelligence”.
I think the so called multiple intelligences are just proclivities caused by neurotrasmitters/neuroreceptors genes. In exemple, I associate visual acuity of Australian Aboriginals with 5HT2A/5HT2B receptors. Creativity is related to dopamine receptors DRD1 and DRD2, as musical abilities. Analitical abilities fueled by norepinephrine and it’s preferential receptors. There is definitely an underling neuronal quality that we call g.
dan seligman?
sounds jewish.
yep.
i was right. see his wiki.
If you were so ‘adaptative’ ( ”truly” smart??) as imagine you begin to think about this self-engrandement… Good “leaders” are megalomaniac specially in your privative lifes. Think also about in quality, quantity and why ‘many’ people visit their blog. The most popular songs in you tube and look for REAL quality.
What is your iq’s standard deviation, PP?
Huh???
Sorry, i’m not english mothertongue. I meant: what’s the standard deviation your IQ fall in.
“The difference is, the HBD blogosphere is way smarter than the crime world, so I probably needed far more IQ than he did.”
Did you passed an IQ test ? If it is the case what is your IQ ?
I bet is between 125 and 135.
I am saving that information for my autobiography.
Is it irony ?
I would say Steve Sailor is at the top of the HBD blogosphere. And there are other names I’ve come across regularly: hbd chick, Jayman, occidentalist, evo and proud, gene expression.
I hadn’t heard of you but this does look like an interesting blog and I like your analysis in this article.
Again, Pumpkin, I know you’re being facetious, but you’re simply not at the top of the HBD world…yet. The individuals Steven mentioned are much higher on the hierarchy. And he didn’t even mention Dr. James Thompson, Meng Hu, FreakoStats, Lion of the Blogosphere (my namesake), Al Fin, Anatoly Karlin, Steve Hsu…should I go on?
You should stay in your lane and continue to do what you best. You have talent but being pompous isn’t gonna win you any new fans.
I know most of those too. wow, I didn’t realise I was in so deep lol.
I have just discovered this blog and my honest impressions: 1) this person writes and thinks with great clarity and is engaging to read and seems like an enthusiastic, positive person. Very intelligent. 2) saying you are a celebrity or at the top seems…if I’m brutally honest…. narcissistic and delusional.
I hope he/she is just being facetious. And I hope he/she isn’t offended.
Yes, we’re very lucky in HBD land to have so many great blogs to choose from. One could read HBD blogs from morning until night.
Oops, left out Gregory Cochran, read him after reading you.
So we can safely say that the current problems with black america stem entirely from HBD reasons? blacks just aren’t really good citizens in the modern world. the recent rioting of baltimore (a city that is now governed by blacks), yet it is one of the most impoverished. blacks are less intelligent, primitive and poor by nature. they could never run a successful operation for long, so please don’t blame whites for the problems of baltimore.
Yes Steve Sailer is definitely at the very very top, and the others you mention are doing quite well too:
https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/01/12/all-hail-the-man-who-started-it-all-steve-sailer/comment-page-1/
yes!
if you’re very smart you’ll very very very unlikely ever be at the bottom…sleeping on the street…
but this “unlikely ever be” is much more certain than that you’ll be complaining about the coffee in the board room.
i, for one, never understood homelessness….unless the homeless couldn’t ever get the plane fare…
just buy a ticket to the s pacific and live a long and healthly life…off the grid…as a Cynic etc.
but maybe they can’t ever do that…Ratso Rizzo’s fantasy was FLA…delusional…Tahiti should’ve been his destination.
Steve Sailor is the pioneer and Godfather of the online HBD movement and he is incredibly astute but he’s not one of the quantitative minded bloggers who gets into the nitty gritty of the science. I guess he paved the way for those guys. John Fuerst and Steve Hsu are my two favourites.
I myself am just a pea brained commenter, trying to grasp a few basic concepts, and Fuerst is my go to guy when I’m trying to understand something. I guess Hsu has the most real world prestige and I go to him to find out what is really going on and where science and tech are headed.
I guess you are a minor internet celebrity and you are too clever to think you are the top dog in hbd, so forgive my impenitence. The quality of your writing is such that I wouldn’t be surprised if you continue to gain popularity.
better said would be…
some smart people get to the top, because their competition is/are morons…
…like perhaps the teflon don.
i, for one, do NOT doubt that smart is good for the bottom line. but i DO doubt that it is that good, especially independent of credentials and family background.
just look at the Forbes 400.
i’m sure they’re all well above average in IQ, but at the same time they’ve all had ins….they’re either heirs or HBS grads, metaphorically speaking.
John Gotti was smart enough to be well-liked but dumb enough to become leader in the middle of federal investigations. According to the FBI, John Gotti didn’t understand the sophisticated businesses other mob members were doing so that implies he wasn’t the smartest mob member.
The biggest mob earner was Michael Franzese, who dropped out of a pre-med program. That means he had an iq of around 120 if the average med student has an iq of 125.
I guess risk taking/amorality translates to an iq advantage of 10 points in performance terms. PP, please correct.
Depends on where he did pre-med at and how far he got in the program.
and Rizzo’s heaven reminds me of my bisexual and jewish hero…
Lou Reed…and not just for that scooter commercial…really…he had lot’s of other great songs!
but…from Miami F L A:
jorge is a stupid spic.
you meant he had lots of great songs. no need for the apostrophe.
and this is better:
so how un-homophobic are my Jew heroes?
1. Schneebaum
10. “Reed”
100. Marx
1000. Chomsky
Count Doofus,
dopamine correlate with creativity but by epistasy, because amerindians, who have very higher demographic proportion of this variants do not seems super creatives.
Europeans have the highest proportion of genetic variants that correlates with “negative” thinking or ideation ( in combination with other traits as ambivert personality, higher intelligence, not necessarily super higher iqs and balanced proportion of extreme dopamine variants: it can contribute to create a high-profile impulsivity or openess).
The genetic variants and personality deviants among Euros are much more pronounced and interesting in Southern Europe. In Spain for example, I find personality types with all kinds, as some are cool and detached, some are very sadistic, some are very intelligent, and some very stupid, others with a combination of several qualities. This range of personalities is why Spain is a more dynamic nation, than let’s say Sweden or the White population of America, where there is more homogeneity. I find some Spaniards to be very educated, open minded and sophisticated, and others are completely the opposite but are also artistically inclined.
Another reason as to why East Asians lack the dynamism of Europeans. Their cognitive profiles are more stable and less diverse. Dynamic societies are more progressive, because people need to tolerate differences and work around them. America could be an example, but because of the big differences in racial makeup and behavior, and also, many of them with low IQs, America is regressive.
I don’t know if Spain is more dynamic than Sweden. You are talking about cultural creativity???
Swedes was brainwashed about the supposed unexpressive, homogeneous and uncreative culture. I really don’t know if swedish culture and people are like that.
PP, is there anyway to measure the collective iq of a group of people? I came up with one. You said a 5 iq increase represents doubling of brain power. (100-90=10;10/5=2; 1/(2^2)=1/4; 2000*1/4=500 )
So the Gambino family would have the dedicated brains of 500 average people. Bill Gates with a 160 iq has the brain power of 4096 people. Brutality is no match for brain power.
This can easily explain why certain civilizations have come up with little despite having a large population.
Interesting application of the doubling hypothesis (not my original idea; it was proposed by a Promethean who estimated that complex learning/problem solving speed doubles every 5 IQ points)
Sorry, I don’t buy the doubling hypothesis. A friend of mine from high school, who was the smartest I’ve ever known personally (perfect SAT and ACT scores), and an IQ in the low 150s, had about 2.5 the amount of AP credits I did. And my IQ is about 120 or so. I would say we were both equally conscientious, so his 30 points higher IQ equaled 2.5 times more accomplishment.
To further clarify, I took 7 APs and got all 5s. He took 18 and got all 5s. With the doubling hypothesis he should have had 2^(30/5) = 64 more AP classes! (now that I think about, there aren’t that many available. But it seems unrealistic nonetheless.)
But isn’t there also a limit to how many AP classes you can take at once & do they not have a predetermined length & schedule?
Sure, if you take them through the high school. But my smart friend took so many AP classes that he self-studied for 6 of them, so technically you can take as many APs as you want when you want to.
In that last reply, I meant that he took 6 exams, without taking the actual classes, because the school wouldn’t let him.
Oh and one last thing. He more or less had plenty of free time to study for these during his junior and senior years, since the school allowed him to exempt out of many classes. We didn’t have an open campus though, so it’s not like he could go home and do his studying.
18 AP classes is very impressive but I actually met someone later on who had done 21!
so who’ll win the fight between black african and filipino?
does pp work in media?
i’ve noticed recently how very dumb so many media people are., and her hints as to her occupation are in line with such an hypothesis.
but then she said her company had some poor clients and that her work had nothing to do with IQ yet she’d travelled the world “giving” people puzzles.
hmmm?
sounds like bullshit.
i’m guessing pp is unemployed and lives in a trailer park.
People who get to the top being smart doesn’t show that smart people get to the top based on intelligence by itself. If only there were some study on highly intelligent people who had mediocre or even below average credentials. It seems like something someone would/should do.
Personally I would easily rank family wealth and personal charisma FAR above intelligence in factors that contribute to success *on their own*.
If only there were some study on highly intelligent people who had mediocre or even below average credentials. It seems like something someone would/should do.
The problem with doing such a study is high IQ people with poor credentials often have disadvantages that prevented them from getting those credentials, so these problems might impede their income, not the lack of credentials. The causal pathway between IQ, socioeconomic background, education, occupation, and income is quite complex.
This study (which I found on Jayman’s blog) shows that in the Western world shared environment only accounts for 24% of educational outcomes, and probably much less once one takes into account the quality of the education (a Phd in Education is maybe roughly equal to a Bachelor’s in Accounting at a good state school in terms of difficulty and increase in future earning potential, for example).
I would guess most of the variance nowadays in educational outcomes can be accounted for by IQ, conscientiousness, and just getting on well in a school environment.
What a load of cack! Gotti was a log time mafia boss? 6 1/2 years he was street boss, not a long time… talking about IQs, yours is low!
And Gotti had an hight IQ, you heard him talk on FBI taps? Being a psychopathic narcissist who people are terrified of, doesn’t make him a genius. He surrounded himself with real geniuses like accountants, thinkers and lawyers who advised him but he was a gobshite and sounded like one. He was no Lansky or Luciano!
I love the gangstera era of the 70s and 80s but let’s not paint them all as geniuses!
So everyone who gets to the top is smart? That’s backward some people fluke it in business or are handed it and are complete gobshites!
Did you read the article? I never claimed Gotti was anywhere close to genius. His IQ was 110 which is high for a criminal, but mediocre for the general population
But John Gotti rose to the top, because he had a high IQ, not because he had a high IQ score. He was a high school dropout who clawed his way to the top of the criminal hierarchy through sheer ruthlessness and adaptability. He’s an example of how smart people get to the top naturally, we don’t need tests like the SAT to force it to happen. It happens on its own. Brain size tripled in 4 million years of human evolution because smart primates are successful naturally. There was no SAT test one million years ago to decide who gets to prosper, life itself was the test.
As Francis Galton put it:
What nature does blindly, slowly, and ruthlessly, man may do providently, quickly, and kindly. As it lies within his power, so it becomes his duty to work in that direction, just as it is his duty to be charitable to those in misfortune.