A commenter named “Winfred” wrote:
Yet schizophrenia is seen as a Jewish disease.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.560128
I think schizophrenia is part of a greater trend. Adjusted for intelligence, schizophrenic races seem to do better in America and are more represented at the top. We have black ceos while no Inuits/native Americans/Mexican-Americans in anything influential in business. Mexican/native Americans have contributed little to American culture compared to blacks and have done little to capture American imagination.
A similar dichotamy exists between whites and east asians in America. Technically, east asians are smarter and yet the bamboo ceiling does include a lack of schizophrenia. The funny thing is how Indian Americans have become celebrities in America and yet east Asians haven’t really cracked it yet.
I think there are two reasons why ethnic groups with high rates of schizophrenia do well after controlling for IQ:
1) Schizophrenia is linked to creativity in the sense that both schizophrenics and creatives have impaired latent inhibition, meaning they both struggle to ignore irrelevant thoughts. When a low IQ person has distracting thoughts, he loses contact with reality, but when a high IQ person has distacting thoughts, he can combine them in novel original ways (creativity). Blacks have higher rates of schizophrenia than whites who probably have higher schizophrenia rates than East Asians, which means that low IQ Blacks are more likely to be mental hospitalized than low IQ Whites who are more likely to be mental hospitalized than low IQ East Asians, however it also means that high IQ Blacks are more creative than high IQ Whites who are more creative than high IQ East Asians, as I previously discussed.
2) Schizophrenia in my opinion is linked to social intelligence. Unlike autistics who tend to be socially retarded because they are oblivious to the mental states of other people, schizophrenics are so good at imagining the mental states of others that they even perceive mental states in inanimate objects (i.e. hearing voices, thinking plants are talking to them). However a high IQ person with only mild schizophrenic tendencies will enjoy the benefits of social cognition without losing contact with reality, and thus be potentially quite successful. If you look at the most socially brilliant people in the world (Oprah, Bill Clinton, Charles Manson) they are typically either black, and/or come from lower class homes (demographics associated with schizophrenia).
So Winfred is correct that the lack of schizophrenic tendencies puts East Asians at a disadvantage despite their superior IQs. As we can see from their position on the evolutionary tree below, East Asians are too highly evolved for their own good; they have lost primitive traits like schizophrenia which are useful for creativity and social skills. By contrast, blacks are not evolved enough. Whites appear to have the optimum level of evolutionary development, hence the dominant position they have played throughout so much of history and culture.
A genetic tree created from page 119 of L.L. Cavalli-Sforza’s book “The Great Human Diasporas”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2039690/Atheism-autism-Controversial-new-study-points-link-two.html
I think Ashkenazi are more adhd-like people than schizophrenic, of course, they are also, but adhd-like or high functioning linked with very higher energy, nomadism. Adhd in personality dimension seems otherwise than autism.
Ashkenazi Jews aren’t really all that creative. And black creativity doesn’t seem to be significant or worth discussing about.
They are macchiavelically creative, like most psychos are too. Think in creativity as multidimensional model, also to manipulate other peoples. They are astutes. A kind of dark creativity.
It’s interesting how people try to make claim that Chinese are similar to Jews in America, with similar achievements. This is absolutely false!
Yes both groups have high IQs, but Chinese evolved to become efficient bureaucratic types only, while Jewish personality is about the charismatic sociopath with high verbal functionality. Intelligence has been applied differently for both groups.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2637402/
Oh really? wait until Korean singer CL the sucess of Psy in America 🙂 I watched Korean TV series ocasionally from 2007 to 2009, but since 2010 I do it more consistently and I like some, some got really popular in countries that are Great Powers such as China and Japan (the Chinese loved Dae Jang Geum and My Love From The Star and the Japanese Winter Sonata and You’re Beautiful). In America they had Psy and now 2NE1.
Creative schizophrenic people may produce a lot of artistic works for the rest of us to enjoy, but the schizo individuals themselves and their families suffer. My friend’s grandmother is a fairly intelligent (IQ 100+) White woman with schizophrenia and her family spends more time/effort/money taking care of her than they otherwise would have.
High IQ is great, but high conscientiousness and neurotypicality is just as important.
Neurotypically is misunderstood, can be good sometimes, can and are bad most times too. Schizophrenia is a mental excess.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3682183/
Pumpkin,
I hope this link help you. Minimum iq to produce creative thinking in neurotypical people is 85.
I don’t know if ”higher iq black people” are the most creative, caucasian european people with mental neuroatypicallity combined with above intelligence (no need super higher iq) seems the most creative ones.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10154775
I think many criminal people are more creative than average neurotypical people. (and many really creative people can be psychopaths).
Southern Euros seem to be the most creative and refined.
Why**** You are southern euro**
Yes, with roots from Spain, southern region in Andalusia to be exact.
Southern Euros as you said have a different profile from Northern Euro. Not only more creative, they are more evolved and more grounded, because they have been here longer and thus had more time to develop socially.
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-45860.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
You’re Spanish, JS?
As someone who is half black half East Asian, I find this is really compelling.
If East Asians are too evolved and blacks are not evolved enough, then Blasians much like whites are just right.
At the genetic level whites are the equivalent of a Blasian with 60% East Asian genes & 40% black genes according to geneticist Cavalli Sforza.
You can consider me white even though I look like a black with East Asian eyes.
I am told I’m extremely attractive & I’m smart as all hell & very sexually endowed physically. I got the best of both extremes..
Rushton rocks!
East Asians are not “too” evolved. It’s a myth. They are less evolved in areas such as civic culture and architectural/design principles.
Indeed, most them eat cat and dog. Ok, eat pork and cow is very disturbing but humans use cat to kill rats and dog in cold environments. Very sad and pathetic, Nietzche was right, ”eastern civilization” is degenerated.
Eastern Civilizations have devolved over time much faster. Their modernization process today is only a façade, and it’s not even remotely on par with any Western European nation. I expect Westerners to beat them again when it comes to the planet mars and setting space trends.
Are you sure? I think Westerners have made huge mistakes with Feminism and mass immigration 🙂
The only countries since WWII that have gone from third world to first world nations without having huge oil deposits are Israel, South Korea and Japan.
Money talks and suggests Asians are smarter than you give them credit for.
Are you being sarcastic? Tadao Ando won the Pritzker Prize (often called the Nobel of architecture) despite having no formal training in the field. Shigeru Ban, another Japanese architect, won the Pritzker last year for his creative use of local materials to construct beautiful yet functional structures in disaster zones. Don’t forget that Frank Lloyd Wright took a lot from Japanese design– from the concept that buildings must incorporate elements of their surroundings and achieve balance with them, to the use of sliding translucent doors opening onto gardens. The minimalist/rustic aesthetic of Japanese design (unfinished woods, geometric surfaces and lines) is what we think of modern design. Silk, porcelain, wallpaper, “venetian” blinds–these are just a few of the materials and media from ancient Asian design. As for civic culture, they introduced the civil service examination system 2000 years ago–essentially, trading aristocracy for meritocracy. This system was modeled on Confucius’ belief that anyone, no matter the circumstances of birth nor the stature of his family, should have a chance to become a high official in government–a radical idea 2500 years ago (it took a few centuries to be implemented), and a radical era even 100 years ago in Europe. Downton Abbey, after all, is about the fall of the aristocracy in Britain circa 1920. Indeed, the British adopted what they called the “Chinese Mandarin” meritocracy after observing the system themselves in the 1840s, post Opium Wars, per the Trevelyan-Cote doctrine. Confucius’ beliefs on education (which help define East Asian society–read T.R. Reid’s Confucius Lives Next Door or Donald Bell’s China’s New Confucianism) follow from his general beliefs about human nature: everyone has capacity to improve themselves greatly in virtue and wisdom and everyone should therefore be given equal opportunities to express their gifts. He was therefore the first scholar to admit students to his school without regard to ability to pay. We are still grappling with these egalitarian beliefs today–think how radical they were 2500 years ago, what they did for Chinese civic society. Basically, this the ‘aristocracy of talent’ 2300 years before Jefferson, and equal access to learning, 2300 years before Horace Mann (a champion for educating the masses). I also think the Confucian disdain for legality, in favor of rule by moral force (society’s leaders would, through their example, inspire the masses to become good) is in many ways superior to our own reliance on laws and lawyers: Look at any Supreme Court decision–they fall along partisan lines almost mechanically. So much for laws guiding truth–they are simply manipulated to justify whatever the powerful and educated want to do. Our overly-litigious society reflects this. So much for civic virtue.
Charles Murray has said in several of his books that all college students should study Aristotle and Confucius, to learn how to live a virtuous and meaningful life in harmony with one’s fellow man. Murray is simply following early-modern era European scholars like Voltaire and Leibniz and American forefather Benjamin Franklin, who looked to China and Confucian thought for models on how to create a moral and virtuous society. Charles Trevelyan, the 19th century British envoy who traveled to China, petitioned Parliament in the 1850s to adopt China’s meritocratic examination system, as it was a systematic way to provide opportunity to the masses. This led to Britain’s still-admired civil service. So, China has long been seen as the source for ideas on how to create a harmonious civic society.
Pumpkin, despising the fact that most of examples of ”highly creative and smart black famous” aren’t pure subsaharian.
Have you read the text or are you just stupid ?
It was clearly said in the text that for equivalent IQ blacks are generally more creatives than whites. So when the IQ is too low you will not have very creatives peoples.
And US blacks have a better environnement added to something like 20 % of whites genes…
”Pumpkin fans” seem to have come from a zoo, lol, very trash. Blacks ARE NOT more creative than whites in any creativity dimension. Oprah is a famous black woman because stupidity of average american white and because problematic foreigners who dominate media and politics are using ”black magic” as ”ilusion examples of racial-cognitive equality”.
Pumpkin (never) specify which ”negroes” who he’s talking about.
I got tired of this ridiculous blog, to hell all of you, your petulant sub humans!!!!
Pumpkin accuse irritating Bugabe to be less empathetic, lol,
simplistic explanations about homeless like ”look, homeless have lower iq, then they are dumb”. ”Super rich and intellectually sterile people are smarter”. lol… hbd elite use very simplistic ways to explain complex things, with many variables and hbd masses, seems to have lower quality like all other masses of followers.
Real intelligence = real empathy, you guys not even reach the surface of wisdom.
Adeus, retardados mentais!!!!
santoculto – LOL!
What’s the big deal about Pumpkin’s post about african elites and their higher IQs. In that case, these higher IQ individuals are useless. Black elites in America have produced nothing and contributed nothing. I cannot even find a black or african restaurant in a big American city.
HBD is simplistic view and is mostly correct about blacks, yet the followers make it like a complicated science.
I never said blacks are more creative than whites, i said controlling for IQ blacks are more creative than whites. This is because blacks have other non-IQ traits that enhance creativity like perhaps a schizophrenic type personality
So for example, a white might need an IQ of 140 to be super creative in a given domain, while a black might need an IQ of only 133.
But since there are more whites with IQs above 140 per capita than blacks with IQs above 133, whites will still be much more creative in an absolute sense
It’s to difficult for you to think in an abstract way…but I don’t have anger angainst you, I belive in determinism.
You are just an animal who think with his primary instincts like his emotion. Please if you are worried by dysgenics, began by get yourself sterilized. 😉
two Engrish Engrish gentreman:
I say old chap you see that collie over there. let’s catch him and eat him.
good idea! but let me finish my gin first.
bloody hell! the hounds won’t chase another dog. we’ll have to do it ourselves.
A high iq person from a schizophrenic race ends up schizophrenic while a high iq person from an autistic race ends up very autistic.
Eastern countries no have jewish problem by now despising communist chinese re-evolution. Eastern immigrants in western countries are liberals and mix out of race a lot. If eastern asians immigrants are representative of most of native populations in Oriental Asia, multiculturalism mode on will impose without any resistance.
About Israel…
to do what i say, but don’t what i do.
When a low IQ person has distracting thoughts, he loses contact with reality, but when a high IQ person has distacting thoughts, he can combine them in novel original ways (creativity)
not sure what this means. Sometimes things that seem nonsensical to an outsider can make sense to a person wit ha high-IQ.
What it means is that if one has a low IQ, they can not process all the distracting thoughts bombarding their brain and they become overwhelmed and disoriented. This puts one at risk for schizophrenia.
But a high IQ person has the working memory to manage all the distracting thoughts and synthesize them into something creative.
So creative Genius and madness are linked because they both involve distracting thoughts (impaired latent inhibition). Here’s an article elaborating on the idea:
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/10.23/01-creativity.html
”High IQ person”…. Jesus, you are very PROLE.
IN FACT,
”iq” replace ”intelligence” to you.
Regrettable
High functioning schizophrenic people are called ”above average intelligence” schizotypal or any other schizo-spectrum-label.
JS,
the idea that white man is a universal parameter to evolution is wrong, evolution can happen in many different ways. Pygmies for example are very evolved according to the own physiological epistatic combination.
Mugabe claimed before that biodeterminism is untrue, but there seems to be more and more evidence coming in its favour
http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/pdf/mp20152a.pdf
Plomin is on a roll
http://www.unz.com/gnxp/the-fourth-law-of-behavior-genetics/
plomin is mentally handicapped.
Plomin is on the roll/rag.
This study provides the first molecular evidence for substantial genetic influence on differences in children’s educational achievement and its association with family SES.
in the UK. also known as blighty. a shitty little country about the size of idaho.
Uk have more than 60 million inhabitants and Idaho have less than 10 millions. And have higher demographic density. Analyse Uk than Idaho seems better because greater population, greater demographic density and higher racial diversity.
Idaho is good to analyse intra-racial differences, but “education” like iq analyses technical and quantitative intelligence.
after you change your diaper you might listen to this PP:
http://www.philosophytalk.org/shows/diseases-mind-philosophy-psychiatry
Don’t insult Pumpkin you worthless piece of shit. He’s an icon, you’re a nothing. A big nothing.
Jorge Videla (aka Mugabe) is obviously jealous of Pumpkin’s intellect and fame.
He’s probably queer. Ten years from now he’ll cut off his cock and change his name to Jorgette.
I agree with everyone that he’s jealous of Pumpkin and his cachet I have colleagues who are just like him. The kind who read Stephen Jay Gould and think they’re experts on HBD.
But I just laugh at him. My students do too.
And yes, he’s a repressed homosexual.
is that you pumpkin?
except ypu dfon’t have any students Kate.
you teach at the University of your imagination.
Lol
pumpkin’s “intellect”?
the only thing you can accuse me of is being cruel to pumpkin.
for that i should be ashamed.
but given how evil his views are he deserves it.
his retarded chart below…i have already explained away. such a chart could be drawn showing that Kenyans are the most evolved.
but pumpkin is too retarded to understand why.
here’s a tree for europeans:
according to pumpkin’s retarded theory the Scotts and Irish are less evolved than the Italians and Portuguese. whatevs.
his retarded chart below…i have already explained away. such a chart could be drawn showing that Kenyans are the most evolved.
but pumpkin is too retarded to understand why.
you’re too autistic to judge what others understand.
Anything you could say, I’ve thought of it twice.
Kenyans could only be ranked as the most evolved by arbitrarily creating many splits in the branch leading to Kenyans.
according to pumpkin’s retarded theory the Scotts and Irish are less evolved than the Italians and Portuguese. whatevs.
Only if Irish, Italians, and Portugese reflect natural objective categories, not merely social constructions.
arbitrarily? do you even know what that word mean pumpkin? obviously not.
your tree is arbitrary. so is the tree for europeans. so is the tree which separates Africans.
yet again pumpkin proves he’s too fucking retarded to talk to.
pumpkin person = person with very low IQ obsessed with IQ.
learn to laugh at vulgar people and take pleasure from their defects.
Again, your autism causes you to underestimate the intelligence of others because you have poor Theory of Mind skills
I’m fully aware that the racial classification in the chart I posted is arbitrary however objective racial classifications done by computer with no subjective judgements by anyone achieve similar categories
But it’s a waste of time talking to you. Your all pervasive developmental disorder impairs your ability to communicate.
the only thing you can accuse me of is being cruel to pumpkin.
Dude, your comments don’t hurt Pumpkin. They hurt you. You come across as a total loon.
But you can’t see that can you?
Is it true what everyone says? You have autism?
I feel bad for insulting you. But you don’t need to carry on like a lunatic just because you have a disability.
Yeah I think it’s pretty clear that Mugabe’s got some serious autism going on. Pumpkin hit the nail on the head.
I have students that are on the spectrum. Don’t get me wrong; some of them are brilliant students. Like Mugabe, great SAT/GRE scores.
But it’s a narrow academic technical intelligence devoid of any nuance and flexibility.
If you can get these people a job in academia doing research they do quite well, though getting tenure is tough for them because they don’t understand university politics.
But if they don’t go into academia the prognosis is gloomy and they often develop extreme anger issues.. Look at Mugabe.
kate,
professors of any kind let alone those who teach at graduate level at a prestigious university do not say any of the things you say.
ever.
you’re as bad a liar as pumpkin. that is, if you aren’t pumpkin.
none of you even knows what ASD is, or a PDD is, or whatever.
and if you Kate actually were a professor, which you are NOT, the last thing on earth you’d do would be to share an HBD site with your students if you “understood department politics” or anything else for that matter.
and besides that’s bullshit. if you’d actually been to grad school you’d know that most professors get tenure in natsci. the hard part is getting the assistan proifessorship. plenty weirdos get tenure and they don’t neeed to be politicians. in fact it might actually HELP them to be sperglords.
the one thing that other than not publishing will get you denied tenure is being an asshole. if you are good the department will want to keep you unless they really can’t stand you.
professors of any kind let alone those who teach at graduate level at a prestigious university do not say any of the things you say.
Dude, that’s your autism talking. I’ve been drinking with professors after hours & you should hear the politically incorrect shit they say when they let their guard down.
The politically correct stuff is just an act with a lot of them.
You can’t see that can you?
Damn, I feel bad for you. On the one hand you’re so smart, but on the other hand you have so many blind spots caused by your disability.
Kate is an expert in HBD. That is to say, an expert in pseudoscience.
Then again, pumpkin censors comments featuring the thoughts of real biologists on the issue.
No Swank, I censor you because you’re tedious & closed minded & you annoy quality commenters like Pincher Martin with your unrelenting obsessive persistence.
You don’t come here to advance science but to push an ideological political agenda. You view HBD as a threat to your race and like many humans, evolution predisposed you to fiercely protect your ethnic genetic interests (which includes denying such interests exist)
That kind of thing is bad for science
and you’ve proved Lol’s point!
the only people you can quote are fringe pscychologists.
you have never quoted a scientist because you can’t.
Originality is when there’s no one to quote, because you’re the first
___pumpkin person, 2015
pumpkinhead makes a valid point. Though i’d expand that tendency beyond just swank. Deep down, Ross believes in hbd, too. Though his motives are slightly different. He feels that unequal outcomes are “unfair” regardless of how honestly those unequal outcomes came about. So he denies the basis for them and claims they’re the result of “unfairness” in order to prop up his goals to eliminate unequal outcomes.
Fringe psychologists? What about mainstream professional psychologists and pschometricians? http://humanvarieties.org/2013/04/03/is-psychometric-g-a-myth/
pumpkin is projecting.
he is all that he accuses swank of being. and he’s a she and a liar.
then he alludes to “advancing science” and an “ideological agenda” as if he even knows what “science” and “ideology” meant. he doesn’t. they’re just syllables.
swank and i are the only commenters on his blog with IQs over 70. and that includes pumpkin himself and pincher martin.
stupid people don’t know they’re stupid.
The problem with the advanced autism and primitive schizophrenia speculation is that autism and schizophrenia tend to run in the same families. Someone with autism is 12 times more likely to have a cousin with schizophrenia. Same goes for bipolar, depression, etc. Genetic research shows the differences which cause each are essentially the same gene. It’s an issue of co-evolved gene complexes. Biology is the result of multiple genes working in combination not isolation. Autism/schizophrenic gene in combination with one set of genes creates one condition. In combination with another set of genes creates another. So it’s not simply a matter of having the gene or not. It’s also a matter of which combination that gene is a part of. As you point out, however, people with these conditions tend to be either very smart or retarded. So people shouldn’t look at these genes as simply “good” or “bad”. The outcome is relative. To use another example, perhaps a particular genes might increase ones risk of brain cancer while simultaneously reducing one’s risk of developing parkinson’s. Neither is guaranteed because it depends on the other genes they inherit. But it’s a statistical trade-off.
Well I suspect autism = high nerdiness + poor executive function while schizophrenia = low nerdiness + poor executive function.
Both autistics and schizophrenics would thus be genetically similar on the executive function dimension and thus occur in the same family for that reason, but be genetically different on the nerdiness dimension and thus differ by social class for that reason..
Further confusing the issue is that autism is often misdiagnosed as schizophrenia.
It’s high nerdiness which I think is “advanced” (K genotype) and low nerdiness which I think is primitive (r genotype).
It’s just my hypothesis. I could be completely wrong.
SC’s theory that Ashkenazi Jews being predisposed to ADHD than let say autism, makes them great characters in a social spotlight, has a lot of truth to it. ADHD people are high energy, need constant stimulation that gives them variable outcomes, and would be extroverted than autistic individuals who don’t need a lot external variables to keep them busy. Jews dominate the legal field, show business, finance, publishing, and anything requiring a great use of verbal ability that can be used both in a sinister and profitable way. Meanwhile the East Asians are drawn to fields of technology, engineering, and anything that allows them to perform efficiently, without much external variables distracting them, similar to a bureaucrat who executes his tasks competently without any fuss or nonsense.
A lot of people make a similar parallel between East Asians and Jews, calling the East Asian overachievers similar to Jewish overachievers. Nothing can be further from the truth how these 2 groups are at the opposite spectrum of achievement and success.
I don’t know that East Asians are more intelligent than anyone else, but I do know that they aren’t less creative. Pumpkin often uses examples like Bill Gates, so let’s start with what Gates says about Asians. In The World is Flat by Tom Friedman, the author says Bill Gates is “utterly dismissive” about the idea that East Asia doesn’t produce creative people. “Who has the most creative video games in the world? The Japanese!” Gates says. In fact, the Japanese essentially created the modern video game as we know it, with Pac Man, Space Invaders, Donkey Kong, Super Mario Brothers, Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy, Tekken, and Sonic the Hedgehog. This is such a huge pop culture phenomenon that such franchises have morphed into cartoons and live action film (in the case of the upcoming Mario film). Bill Gates goes on to say that many of his best software developers are Japanese; elsewhere, he says that Microsoft’s best research comes from their labs in Shanghai. While we’re on the Japanese, don’t forget that dozens of Japanese movies (as well as Asian films, like Infernal Affairs–remade by Martin Scorsese, who hailed Asian cinema in his Oscar acceptance speech) have been remade by Hollywood, like the Seven Samurai, Yojimbe, The Hidden Fortress (the plot for Star Wars; ‘Jedi’ is derived from the Japanese term for sword flick), The Grudge, The Ring, and The Matrix (the Wachowski brothers, the directors of the series, openly admit that the concept comes directly from Japan’s Ghost in the Shell). As for art films, Yasujiro Ozu is often called one of the top 10 directors of all time; his Tokyo Story was named the #1 film of all time by the British Film Institute a few years back. The late Roger Ebert said that Ozu (and Japanese directors) created their own, unique approach to film because they were essentially isolated from the West from the 1920s until the end of WWII–this approach to film led to ingenious cinematographic and directorial devices that put Japanese film on the world map in the late 40s. Rashomon is a film that says so much about how we view truth that it is actually taught in some rhetoric and legal courses! Don’t care much for art film? Well, Japanese animation has had as large an impact on world entertainment–movies such as Speedracer, Astroboy, Akira, and Dragonball have become world pop phenomena, and have been or are in the process of being remade by Hollywood. I would be remiss if, while talking about Japan, I failed to mention consumer electronics. The late (and great) Steve Jobs is often held as an archetype for Great Innovator, but he actually said that Akio Morita, founder of Sony, “created the consumer electronics marketplace”. Sure, Apple has since taken that space in terms of branded gadgets, but Morita had a great run, first creating the idea of portable electronics with the pocket radio in 1950, continuing with the trinitron TV, Betamax, audio CD, camcorder, digital camera, and of course Walkman and Playstation. Jobs is often seen as a firebrand and iconoclast, but he actually traveled to Sony HQ many times, invited by Morita. In fact it was Morita who said that he never listened to focus groups or polls: “The consumer doesn’t know what he wants–you have to tell him.” Sound like Jobs? Morita came first. Speaking of Apple, remember that much-lauded 1984 Superbowl commercial featuring an Apple combating Big Brother? Six years before, in 1978, Wang Computer ran the first computer commercial to air in a Superbowl? And it featured Wang Computers fighting The Man. An Wang, the founder, had invented magnetic core memory (the idea behind disc drives) in 1950, but was forced by Harvard to sell the patent to IBM. He then spent the rest of his life building computers to fight IBM, and by the 1980s Wang computers had 30% of the enterprise computing market, making Wang a billionaire. Around the same time, young Masayoshi Son (now the owner of Sprint) was getting his start at Berkeley, selling his first patent to Sharp for $1 million–by the end of the century, he would be a billionaire. Part techie, part investor, and fully a maverick, he has been called a combination of Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Richard Branson. Another tech billionaire whose impact is lost on the media is Jerry Yang, founder of Yahoo. Rob Solomon, a venture capitalist, recently wrote on ReCode dot net that Yang was “a great founder, evangelist, strategist and mentor” who created the company that was “the blueprint for what was possible on the internet”–back in 1994. Yang launched the careers of the founders/executives at LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Groupon, Zynga, YouTube, Dropbox, Pinterest, Yelp, Cloudera. But the media gives him short shrift, mentioning him only when talking about CEO Marissa Mayer’s woes. Point is, if you go by the media, you won’t hear about these builders and creators who happen to be East Asian–so you get the sense that the only ones of note are people like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Oprah Winfrey. The media cannot blow off white leaders–they are the majority. The media cannot blow off black leaders–that would be racist. Asians, at 4% of the population, are easily overlooked. This is getting long, so I’ll address the media–and Winfred’s comment–in another post.
the absence of mongoloids at the top of American society have to be explained by individual characteristics within the ideology that demand that the United States is a meritocracy.
thus mongoloids are this and that and bull shit. and they are this and that because they are mongoloids.
Mongoloids in the West, generally shun any spotlight or don’t take advantage of it, when given the opportunity. They are either less ambitious, less extroverted or less enterprising than let’s say Ashkenazi Jews, whose high verbal ability allows them to craft themselves as convincing characters to be taken serious. It could be anything, from seminars, shows, book promotions to business debuts. They are much more prone to act on these opportunities of self promotion, than East Asians in the West, who generally would not. Ashkenazi Jews appear a lot more extroverted than the Mongoloids.
Just watch this video of the 2nd Presidential debate between Obama and Romney. The audience has a young Ashkenazi Jew, Jeremy Epstein, who made sure his question was answered and his demands be heard. The East Asians (especially the young East Asian guy in the front row) did not say anything, and it was likely due to the fact that he did not bother to submit any questions/issues.
And Santo Oculto is correct. Ashkenazi are intense, high energy, and have high IQ, especially high verbal ability, which gives them a very strong drive to achieve success with their given innate abilities. East Asians are quite the opposite.
My last post was kinda long, but I wanted to touch on Winfred’s comment because I mentioned the media at the end of that post. So, why have there been Indian but not East Asian celebrities? First of all, I don’t think there are any real Indian celebrities in America, certainly not big ones. I do think the media takes a stronger liking to Indians than East Asians, for reasons of history (think: past wars). The presence of many Indians, both talented and mediocre, on American TV–and so few Asians–would be consistent with this. Secondly, it is not for lack of talent that there are so few Asian celebrities. Take Ken Leung, for example. He was nominated for an Emmy for his performances on The Sopranos. The Oscar-winning director and actor Ed Norton said Leung has “unlimited potential” as an actor, citing his “showstopping” performances. Director Brett Rattner said Leung “is the equivalent of a Philip Seymour Hoffman as far as talent is concerned.” Daniel Dae Kim, star of Lost and supporting actor on Hawaii 5-0, has won a Screen Actors Guild award. And don’t forget the indomitable George Takei–he’s a pop legend! You can no more think of anyone than William Shattner occupying the role of Captain Kirk than George Takei not playing the role of Mr. Sulu. During last month’s Academy Awards, there was a remembrance for actors we lost in 2014–one of them was James Shigeta, who was in the hit film “Bridge to the Sun” but failed to get any major roles thereafter. He wasn’t the first Japanese-American celebrity–before him, there was Sessue Hayakawa, one of the earliest silent film actors in Hollywood, who became a millionaire through several hit films from 1916-1920 before being shunned. The thread that runs through this all of this is that there weren’t and still aren’t many roles for East Asians in Hollywood. Even the Emmy-Award-nominated Leung has basically disappeared. As has the rapper Jin, who won MTVs freestyle rap tournament in the early 2000s (the kind of contest depicted in the film 8 Mile about Eminem). That’s pure, on your feet, rap talent. So the relative invisibility of Asians in Hollywood has little to do with lack of creative talent. (Behind the screen, it’s different: the musical composer for Disney animations like Frozen happens to be a Filipino.)
Gary,
you are confusing things here.
1-Japaneses are not equal from chineses or koreans. They aren’t universal parameter to eastern asians cognitive traits. And yes they have higher proportion of creatives if compared with other asians.
2- Creativity as well intelligence, have different “bio-contextualized” profiles, then japaneses and other asians will have different genetic combinations producing different cognitive profiles.
3- Is not “east asians AREN’T creative”. Is “east asian populations, generally, have lower proportion of creative people compared with western nations. Creative people love to be creative and love produce novel things, thinking ways, etc… You are not stop them. Creatives tend to be naturally rebels and excentric. Confucian culture can be contributed to des-selected this kind of people, specially in Continental East Asia. They there are but in lower % compared with western nations.
Actually, Santoculto, the behavioral profile of the average Japanese would fit the quiet, repressed East Asian stereotype far more than Continental Asians. Chinese and Koreans, after all, seem more extroverted, noisier, and physically more belligerent (fitting the ‘creative’ subtype–low impulse control, more expressive and spontaneous) than Japanese people. (There is no equivalent to a Mao Zedong or charismatic cult leader Chungyoung Moon–remember the Moonies?–in Japan.) And yet it is the Japanese who are at this point in history, more advanced and creative than those incorrigible Koreans and Chinese (in fact, a Japanese auto designer once said that the Koreans were the Italians of Asia). I attribute Japanese advancement and creativity to a long period of peacetime which produced the wealth-buildup that allowed regular people to basically do whatever the heck they wanted–and get the infrastructure to do so. (Still, it is amazing that Shin-itiro Tomonaga, who won the Nobel with Richard Feynman–considered one of the greatest theoretical physicists ever–wrote his seminal papers in a bomb shelter in Tokyo during WWII.) In fact, 150 years ago before Japan’s rise, Western scholars like Joseph Edkins commented on China’s ingenuity compared to Japan’s backwardness. China, not Japan, had invented the Four Cardinal Inventions: Paper, printing, gunpowder, and the compass, which completely changed the world, according to numerous scholars like Francis Bacon and Karl Marx. China, not Japan, had complex an dynamic political institutions based upon meritocracy, in contrast to Japan’s shogunate rule. Still, Korea and China are quickly turning the tables: many of Korea’s films have actually been remade by Hollywood, while its soaps are popular all over the world; China has already produced two Nobel laureates in literature since 2000 (the first is technically a French citizen).
i love japanese culture, animes… they are really a kind of ”honorary aryans”. No doubt about it. Yes, chineses have their period of higher creativity, but ”confucian pacification” CAN be eliminated rebelious and potentially creative people there. I look for chineses in Amurrica and they seems not real creatives, but we have observe everyday lives of chinese and other continental east asians immigrants to understand clearly if they tend to be less creative than western, but western civilization is superb and eastern civilization degenerate slowly. To understand if a country have a higher proportion of creative castes, you need see the cultural dynamic, hughe changes in western probably cause by conflict or ”competition” between jews and non-jews european caucasians.
The Japanese was more aggressive than Chinese. Also, they had a warrior culture and a very savage one. The Chinese called the Japanese, the devils of the East. So one East Asian group called another group, the savage barbarians. To the Chinese, the Japanese were like Europeans, brutal savages. But Japanese art, literature, and anything after the modernization of Japan, has more influence and is more well known to the West, than anything related to Chinese.
I see what you are saying about the definition of “creative” people but for the purposes of speaking of intelligence and creative achievements, actual productivity–not behavior–must be the operative definition. A person who is quiet, reserved and methodical–the wallflower–can be the one in your proverbial high school class that goes on to write amazing essays for the New Yorker or gets her paintings shown at the Metro or discovers the cure for cancer; while the extroverted, romantic and emotional person who always seems to be making something could just as well be the person who contributes nothing original. Or maybe she does do something creative. Point is, the operative thing is actual productivity. Hayao Miyazaki seems to be the proverbial quiet, subdued type–but it is largely because of him that animation films are now seen by the world as high art.
you assume that individuals and groups can have characteristics such as creativity or productivity regardless of context. what is extroverted in America is over the top in Japan. how long it would take before a sicilian fell in middle of Tokyo was placed in crazy house even he was magically able to speak fluent Japanese? is a common congitive bias to treat abstractions as were concrete things. but they never are.
yes, epistatic combination. But, japaneses are really different than other eastern asians. You need understand it. They are more introverted than koreans and chineses. I think ainu admixture can be some effect in higher japanese creativity. To produce creative personality profiles you need only a combination of progressive and atavic personality + above quantitative intelligence (iq). Japaneses have a numerous proportion of creative people than chinese. Chinese immigrants in USA and others countries seems very good to learn local creative achievements, look at to Prato, Toscana city with higher % of chinese people in Italy. Obviously, chinese and korean creative ones there are, but in little proportion than japaneses and westerners. But, some cognitive ”personality” profiles tend to neutralize creative potentiality. Blacks have many notorious traits which are common in real creative people but they have lower complex intelligence or ”civilizational intelligence profiles” (technical intelligence).
I shouldn’t comment here again. period.
Also, Bruce Lee is perhaps the most famous celebrity coming from the Chinese. Bruce Lee was considered too narcissistic, ego centric and aggressive for most Chinese. It could be coming from his German ancestry. He was also very rebellious, and Chinese didn’t like it. I believe high testosterone has to do with his character profile. It seems like White and black people admire Bruce Lee more than his fellow Chinese, because his personality was that of Western type: extroverted, aggressive, and egocentric.
Pumpkin,
the way as you talk about autism, show that you know little about that. You are not so different than most of the hbd bloggers. If hbd is predominantly right and in fact is it, you accept only opinions and premisses that converge with their point of views.
I have non-diagnosed “pervasive developmental dis-order”.
Many creative japaneses look impressive because you have a combination of average higher iq with environmental advantages and with some ( seems) uncommon personality profiles. I think little more creative chineses will can be famous if chinese cultural and political context change but look to chinese immigrants in western and say if they are above creative and with quality, a genius level??
But is nebulous the idea that east asians have higher iqs than all white people. Native white Americans have practically same sat scores than asian Americans even in math or non-verbal sessions.
I agree–I think IQ testing is a nebulous arena and doubt that East Asians are smarter than Native Ams or anyone else. But you’re not quite correct that the two groups have similar scores–Asians actually have higher scores than Native Ams, which is not surprising given that most Natives grow up deprived on national reservations.
huuum, i said ”WHITE NATIVE americans” and not ”native americans” or amerindians.
Look that white american talented people are biased in their own country because ”them”, specially.
Santoculto,
What about the Germans and Swiss? They’re the most advanced in Europe, but the Germans used to eat dog recently and apparently some Swiss still do:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9B04E4D9133EE033A25750C2A9609C946697D6CF
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9C0CE7DC1531EE3ABC4A52DFB066838E639EDE
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30205410
The first two articles were from the 1920’s when Germany’s economy was in crisis and suffering a food shortage. The third article was propaganda from an animal rights group. Regardless, eating dogs and cats isn’t a common accepted practice there and never has been. It’s been illegal to sell for decades. Tyler is being deceptive.
I’m not being deceptive. You should read more carefully. The first article is from 1907, during the German Empire, when Germany was growing rapidly and surpassing Britain as the greatest industrial power. The article notes that high meat prices led to more dog meat consumption, but that’s still weird, as people today would go vegetarian rather than start eating dog meat if meat prices became high.
All human populations are very stupid on average, no surprises.
”santoculto – LOL!
What’s the big deal about Pumpkin’s post about african elites and their higher IQs. In that case, these higher IQ individuals are useless. Black elites in America have produced nothing and contributed nothing. I cannot even find a black or african restaurant in a big American city.
HBD is simplistic view and is mostly correct about blacks, yet the followers make it like a complicated science.”
JS,
goodbye my friend!!
I have no more patience here.
Yes, many of them talk about Occam’s Razor. Be synthesized is different from simplistic.
Bye…
abóbora é autista ?
Não, ele é só um idiota desprovido de sabedoria para entender os seus limites e os seus potenciais.
Mas ele não parece entender o que realmente se constitua o autismo ao usá-lo como ferramenta de ofensa ”pessoal” ao Bugabe.
Apparently eating dogs and cats was some sort of tradition among some Swiss:
http://www.newsweek.com/not-just-christmas-swiss-urged-stop-eating-cats-and-dogs-287378?piano_d=1
Pumpkin, where would we be with the Four Cardinal Inventions–Paper, Printing, Gunpowder, and the Compass? The English philospher of science, Francis Bacon, once said that these are the inventions that truly changed mankind, “first, in literary matters; second, in warfare; third, in navigation”–adding that their origins were obscure. Yet in the 1500s, Spanish and Portuguese missionaries and traders reported that these inventions–as well as many others–had existed for centuries in China. By the 1800s, Western scholars like Joseph Edkins had established that these inventions came from China. In the 20th century, biochemist Joseph Needham took up an interest in Chinese science and spent the rest of his life chronicling Chinese inventions and innovations in his 24-volume work, Science and Civilisation in Ancient China. The seismograph, differential gear, chain drive, river locks, rudder, wheelbarrow, segmental arch, water-powered trip hammers, mechanical clock, rotary fan, cast iron, crossbow, double-bellows blast furnace, matches, soccer, playing cars, and seed drill are just a few of the inventions he documented. Soccer, playing cards, and mechanical theaters and puppetry are some of the entertainments from late ancient China. Interchangeable parts and mass production, meritocracy, and modular architecture are some of the systems theories that originated in China. However, Chinese advancement abruptly ended in the 16th century just as Europe was rising. War and eventual occupation by the Manchus (that would last 270 years), partial colonization by Europeans and Japanese, and then civil war and strife for most of the 20th century, all but put an end to discovery and scientific progress in China. It was not all bad, especially for us: many of China’s best came here, like Cheng-Shiung “Madame” Wu, the particle physicist who was one of the few Chinese nationals involved in the Manhattan Project and who (according to American scholars) was robbed of a Nobel (which actually went to two other Chinese nationals in 1959). So, I am not sure where this idea that the Chinese or Asians are not creative came from. It’s certainly a relatively recent one, though–European scholars and missionaries from the Enlightenment to the early Modern era said precisely the opposite.
Gary,
most of modern inventions in China were invented in different periods than Western. Some of these inventions were copied and others were invented parallelly.
Westerners have surpassed the Chinese in inventions, creativity, variety, different government styles, and everything. Now we have Westerners making Chinese food. It’s true!
Also, Muslims in Medieval Period, surpass China at the same time. The Muslims learn Western Mathematics and Science and came up with new breakthroughs. Today, all these Chinese students study in the West and make no significant progress. Also, the Muslims in the Medieval Period, were Arabs that look like Southern Euros, and of course, the Persians.
* I meant to say Greek Mathematics and Science.
Gary,the Spanish and Portuguese were just being nice to the Chinese. Europeans were 1000000X more times ambitious and dynamic than the Chinese ever was. They sailed to the new world where gun powder (borrowed from the Chinese) was used to carved out new territory and countries. Without gunpowder, Latin America would have not existed and Spanish and Brazilian would not have been spoken. The Chinese were rather incurious with their inventions.
Also, gunpowder was used by the English and to a certain extent the Portuguese, to subjugate the Chinese (using their invention to control them) to get Hong Kong and Portugal.
haha…I mean to say Macau.
Oops, I meant Where would we be withOUT the Four Cardinal Inventions named by Francis Bacon….Sorry Pumpkin!
“ademo” retardado mental,
in a demo-cratic environment, inferior “people” like you are free to say the shit that we want. The problem about REAL stupid like you is that the complete unconsciousness about own inferiority. I’m animal Of course because humans are animals too, less you, because you are near to holehell called congo. You really no have the remote idea about who u’ are ‘talking’ and insulting. Their first comment here was a cheat insult against me. I don’t know what soo stupid i write here about an near macaco as you to be petulance to use it as offense. Your first comment here was a offense, the second too. Put in your irrelevant place.
This blog is worsening a hell. Excellent moment to leave it. I hope don’t need back here.
I do have to say this is a very interesting post from Pumpkin. To me the issue of schizophrenia is second priority for the “social” successes of Jews and blacks, but still important. I say the levels of testosterone, and especially the historical injustices experienced as a minority, where there is a need to act on them and be heard, are the main causal reasons.
East Asians in American society never went through a phase of what blacks experienced in America, and Jews with anti-Semitism in Europe. Combined with their lower testosterone levels, you get a really quiet group with very “beta” traits.
Most people can cite a few famous black americans, but hardly anyone outside of Africa, knows any of its people. So it’s not really a matter of race alone.
One thing that HBDers and race scientists have yet to elaborate. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? Is culture, a product exclusively of race/genetics or environment, or both?
Most people can cite a few famous black americans, but hardly anyone outside of Africa, knows any of its people. So it’s not really a matter of race alone.
Well it’s easier to become famous in America since it’s the most famous country in the World.
Also blacks in Africa have poor nutrition. This impairs even the things blacks are good at & become famous for (i.e. sports, music, charisma) in addition to impairing IQ.
Whites appear to have the optimum level of evolutionary development, hence the dominant position they have played throughout so much of history and culture.
Non-European caucasoids are less successful than Europeans, and have shown less creativity. People could make an assertion that Southern Europeans on the Northern Mediterranean side are a lot more creative than their counter parts in Northern Europe, because they are closer to Africa, the continent of the sub-saharan blacks. However, the caucasoids in the Southern Mediterranean of North Africa (considered Arabs and under Islamic domain), have made very little cultural impact and shown little creativity worthy of mention. And today, many of them have sub-Saharan black genes through intermixing with them, and that has not improve their cultural and creativity output.
In terms of the medical field, surgeons attract the psychopathic types while physicians do not. There is a grain truth that only those who become surgeon generals are in fact surgeons. East Asians are overrepresented in the medical field, but underrepresented as surgeons. Further, East Indians gravitate towards fields like surgery and the most famous black american “doctor” is a neurosurgeon, Ben Carson.
It doesn’t seem to make sense;
How can proportions of Schizophrenia be the best indicator of creativity?
In actual breaking down of parts of the brain, the parts relating to Spatial things (Where East Asians/Inuits/Natives/Mexicans) excel, is also where creativity is centered; https://andreacollo.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/hemispheres.jpg
This left-right divide is also evidenced by the effects of strokes/brain injuries, etc.
Whatever happened to Winfred? She seemed quite bright.
I hate to play the race card, but guys, really?
Whites have not had, for the bulk of history, more cultural achievement?
Where would the west be without gunpowder, paper, mandate of heaven type ideology.
So the premise is BS.
Second, see my post about the brain and its parts and what the control. The notion that East Asians are less creative than Whites is ridicolous.
If Whites-Asians were flipped in the HBD community, this would be seen for the nonsense that it is.
It’s an excuse for White Supremacist, racist, BS.
Let’s make a point that East Asians have been victims of their own repressive governing systems like Confucianism to Chinese Communism, which have kept them raw for so long, in terms of creativity is concerned.
In reality, I look at the Medieval Islamic Empire that stretched from Spain into China for solid evidence that the Chinese were useless in terms of propagating knowledge.
The Muslims absolutely made no use of anything coming from China, except paper, its manufacture technique was stolen, not received on mutual terms. Furthermore, the Greeks who preceded the Muslims, had Greek fire (similar to gunpowder), Aristotle, their Mathematicians, which were also taken by the Muslims through translation of their written knowledge. The output of the Greeks exceeded the Chinese by a tenfold mile, and the Muslims were not very original as a people on their own. So did the Indians, who provided the Muslims with the concept of zero and also knowledge on astronomy.
But the Chinese are far older than any mentioned…
Who cares about old? Aren’t Mongoloids the most recent members of human evolution?
And by the way, there was a story about Muslims during the Abbasid Caliphate sending a few envoys to China to see its emperor, who was ruling under the Mandate of Heaven. When the Muslims were received at the Chinese Imperial court, they refused to bow to the emperor as a sign of respect. They only bowed to Allah, the all encompassing. Men are not divine.
I meant that it is far more likely that the Chinese were the creators of said inventions (passing them on to the civilizations you mentioned) since they are an older Civilization. My points
1. Asians are still the highest IQ major race
2. It’s unlikely that creativity is the cause for Asians not raping the world (mainly otherwise, historically, they may actually be more advanced than Whites) for the reasons I outlined above.
So what? It doesn’t mean a darn thing now. Europeans have surpassed East Asians in every important facet of life, for ages. I’ve already mentioned how the Medieval Islamic Empire linked Europe all the way into the fringes of China, and didn’t care about them. They had nothing important to offer, in terms of scientific knowledge.
Mexicans/Native Americans do better than East Asians as celebrities. Furthermore, Hispanics are the “silent killers” in America. They have taken over the country by their sheer numbers. blacks have complained about it, just like Whites.
HBD Chick tears apart rebuttals as to why East Asians lack creativity a few years ago:
https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2011/03/17/why-east-asians-arent-more-creative/
Schizophrenia might not be the clue, but ADHD, or lack thereof among the East Asianese might be the reason.
In the comment section, it seems like Santo adds another layer of offense to refute the Asian supremacists once and for all.
To add insult to injury, Whites are the ones who use recreational drugs to given them an extra push in the creativity capacity.
Not many East Asians are drug abusers. They’re not as open to new experiences!
And Lion disagrees with me that East Asians lack the colorful decorum which is found among Whites, and is very apparent in blacks who make the effort to decorate their homes/offices or any other setting. East Asian settings are usually cold, bland and spartan.
Any correlation to East Asians’ lack of empathy and their inability to find creativity or exploit openness from external stimuli to its fullest?