The Beijing Genonomics Institute in Shenzhen, China, the largest gene-sequencing facility in the world, is analyzing the DNA of extremely high IQ people (145+) to identify genetic variants associated with high IQ. Ultimately, the goal might be to create a mathematical formula that would predict someone’s IQ from their genes with a high degree of certainty.
A commenter on this blog named “Mugabe” is a fierce critic of the study, despite claiming to be a participant of the study. His main criticism, if I understand it, seems to be that if all the genetic data comes from people living in similar environments, then any formula that would predict their IQs from their genetic variants might only predict the IQs of people in those types of environments, which might be useless since environments are always changing.
Thus he has argued that the BGI study needs DNA from genetically similar people living in a wide range or environments. Perhaps a good study might be to get the DNA of African Americans (with very little non-black admixture) who are 60 IQ points higher than the average African American. And then get DNA from West Africans who score 60 IQ points higher than other West Africans. Then whatever genetic variants that differentiate both the brilliant African Americans and the brilliant West Africans from the ordinary African Americans and the ordinary West Africans would be genetic variants that cause higher IQ in both the First World and the Third World, which means you would have identified independent genetic effects, instead of genetic effects specific to a particular time and place, and thus useless if the environment changes.
Of course these genetic variants might only predict high IQ in African Americans/West Africans and be useless in other ethnic groups, so you would want to repeat the procedure on different races. But African Americans are unique in that they came to the U.S. as non-voluntary immigrants and thus were a fairly random sample of the West African gene pool, that has just happened to have lived in the U.S. for centuries. Thus by comparing un-mixed African Americans to West Africans, environment varies radically but genes are virtually held constant.
But in other populations, (i.e. Indian Americans vs Indians in India) not only does environment vary, but so do genes, since the Indians who voluntarily migrate to the U.S. are genetically different than the ones who stay in India, so they are less useful for isolating the independent effect of genetic variants.
i believe though Shoe has never stated so explicitly that the data has already been looked at and they found nothing. but every participant was promised a free total sequencing and i haven’t gotten anything yet. the blogger “Assistant Village Idiot” is another participant.
right. my comments on Shoe’s blog a long time ago were to the effect that the disjunction of the GWAS hits for cognitive ability might be a small subset of the hits found in any local GWAS.
that is, if you had a dozen local GWASs each with its set of hits and found the disjunction of these dozen sets, that is, the largest set which was a subset of each one of the dozen sets, you might find the size of this set was quite small in comparison.
of course Shoe probably just deleted my comment.
and this disjunction would be the hits that hereditists were looking for. that is, they would be the alleles which effected higher relative performance everywherei.
Shoe addressed this possibility in one post on blood pressure. the claim of the study he linked to was that hits for bp were the same all over the world that is irrespective of variation in environment and in the complement genomes in the case of epistasis.
to this i commented that it is already solid science that anyone can have a bp of 100/60 if he maintains a sufficiently severe diet for a year or more. BUT that the diet which effects this is quite rare even in the developing world, so that some African farmers may still have systolic bp of 130.
Paul Theroux mentions the case of the Trobriand Islanders. their bp actually goes down with age. for Melanesians eating a Western diet this is not the case, so it’s likely not genetic. he described the Trobriand diet as something like the Pritikin.
Mugabe seems very scholastic smart but where are their inovative personal achievements??? Despising the fact that Mugabe have difficulty to explain objectively what he want to say. Despised fact Number 2: Mugabe no have racial reality sense in other words, lack of observational abstract capacity of/ to real world. Even when most of ants are little he cannot accept this reality. My “gifted” cousin who lack reality sense and said ” i like gay people” without any thought profoundity also could participate this bullshit.
Mugabe also show lack of objective profoundity.
Only those who are above ecuador line can participate, the rest cannot participate. Von Savants, lack of vital and lucid Energy, lack of self awareness, lack of super inovative potential ( she’s smart BECAUSE have higher iq) can participate. What Vos Savant think about mass immigration?? And about real injustices???
Correct, Mugabe thinks blacks are equally capable as others. Funny, I spoke to a West African immigrant recently, who of course represents the cream of the crop from his nation, yet he had to blurt out that certain African nations are more developed, because the British was able to colonize them more successfully. West Africa was and still inflicted with Malaria mosquitoes that are not conducive to European settlement and thus less modernization and development as a result, where as East and South Africa were quite the opposite. Free of prevalent mosquitoes and a more favorable climate allowed the Anglos to develop Nairobi and Johannesburg.
which Mugabe?
me or the Mugabe?
if me then you’ve just proven my contention that HBDers are dumb.
and Mugabe and jorge videla are the same person. i should know.
africa’s biggest problem is its TFR. latin america and china and the developed world all used to have african TFRs. and even then SSA as a whole is slightly richer than S Asia according to Ha-Joon Chang.
i don’t believe black Africans as a group are as capable, less capable, or more capable. i believe that it’s an open question.
if i were betting i’d bet that they are slightly less capable as a group, whatever capable means, but that this slightly less is very slight.
and that west african was right. the british despite their current despicable-ness were fairly benign as a colonial power compared to the French or Portuguese.
it’s even a scene in Brideshead “Very dirty peoples”, the porter said. “No education. French leave them dirty. Not like British peoples. My peoples”, he said, “always very British peoples.” For he was from the Sudan and regarded this ancient centre of his culture as a New Zealander might regard Rome. that ancient centre was Casablanca iirc.
the same people who claim biological superiority over black africans claim that the Jews aren’t innately smarter than Europeans. how do they know that blacks aren’t to them as Europeans are to the Jews?
if i were betting i’d bet that they are slightly less capable as a group, whatever capable means, but that this slightly less is very slight.
The most hardcore HBDer is Richard Lynn who believes that on a scale where Northwest Europeans average 100, pure black Africans average IQ 67 but a genetic IQ of 80.
You would probably say they have a genetic IQ of 95, assuming you could be convinced genetic IQ is even a meaningful concept
Roberto M’ugabe strangely have a PROLE pride because their sterile higher scores in conventional cognitive tests but he believe that “blacks” “aren’t” savages ( ass he said in Lion of blogosphear) and the differences between desilusional and idiotic_ dogmatic “ordinary” whites and dumb and sordid “ordinary” blacks are superficial and cause by pseudo environment factors.
He have a agenda or he is so cretin like my lunatic anti racist bro and really believe in this crap. He’s a pride atheist, rational (sic!) but deny the reality. Lack of observational capacity, extremely important to survive in any environment. Silly “smarts” or useless “smarts”. Silly smarts no have wisdom ( holistic common sens) and self awareness.
Videla,
Yes, Ashkenazis are inherently less smarter than Europeans, until of late. They were deemed retards in the early 20th century, when they couldn’t find their way out of a paper bag, and were too stupid to fight in war. An IQ test administered to Askenazi military applicants proved just that.
Regarding African immigrants, good luck finding a nice apple among a crate of rotten ones. Not only are Africans dumber, they have poor future time orientation. Just look at the severe under representation of black immigrants and shop keepers. They are almost non-existent!
JS,
Just because one believes in behavioural genetics is no reason to say mean things about other races. Please express your views more diplomatically
Also, a lot of what you’re saying is not correct:
https://ethnicgenome.wordpress.com/2009/03/08/early-iq-tests-on-jews-showing-low-iq/
PP – IQ is circle jerk discussion that is just meaningless in today’s modern society.
I know many people here are Jew lovers and think Ashkenazis are gods because of their superb IQ. All irrelevant, since they have not produce anything of significance.
At least JS can come out with the truth of what HBDers really believe. But, it’s all really just another part in the long-running series “HBDers do not care if HBD is true.”
Swank, not all HBDers are alike. Some are different races and ethnic groups from others. Some are politically liberal, others are conservative. Some are politically motivated, others just want to do science, and still others are just looking for the order and structure that HBD provides.
‘Swank, not all HBDers are alike’
On average HBDers do not care if HBD is true.
On average HBD deniers don’t care about truth either. Most people accept sloppy science when it tells them what they want to hear. It’s only when they find the science unpalatable do most people insist on higher scientific standards.
‘On average HBD deniers don’t care about truth either.’
If by ‘HBD denier’ you mean ‘blank slatist,’ maybe. But there are almost no blank slatist HBD deniers. Instead, most HBD deniers simply align with scientific consensus: there are real, but small, differences between groups.
‘Most people accept sloppy science when it tells them what they want to hear. It’s only when they find the science unpalatable do most people insist on higher scientific standards.’
Maybe, but even if true, as a group HBD deniers don’t want to hear anything about race — either way. HBDers typically want to hear certain things about race. So at least on this one measure, one group probably cares about the truth more than the other, if only because they are more dispassionate.
there are real, but small, differences between groups
Really, how small? Is that the findings of any studies or just speculation that it could be so?
“I know many people here are Jew lovers and think Ashkenazis are gods because of their superb IQ. All irrelevant, since they have not produce anything of significance.”
QFT
yes, very important to sample from all races, around the world, to increase the uniqueness of the results.
But probably their sample is overpopulated with chinese math masters who were successful at math olympiad kind of competitions. That will also probably select a bit for conscientiousness, rather than pure intelligence…
Mandrake psychological concepts like “consciouss-ness””.
fascinating stuff. maybe they will find positive results
Bamako m’gabe,
Lunatic, confuse and coward… :~)
Mugshort said…
“the same people who claim jews aren’t innately smarter … ”
Mugabe claim Roberto are innately smarter than dumb hbd’ears. How do he ( gaybriel ) know that hbdumbs aren’t like him’ as blacks are to whites??
Nope, this is not a open question. Only because you want. Is hour to mature. You make the simple to understand, harder to yourself, if you believe in demographic similar abstractions than individuals. I knew some smart mulatto people. No, i don’t change my opinion because i can compare naturally the behavior of different people. Poverty is not excuse for nothing. You have a cognitive defect.
Less arrogance and more humility to recognize that you aren’t perfect. And you don’t know explain without histrionic attacks their point of views. Seems sofisticated and difficult but is only confuse and prole-elitist. Most blacks do not understand their point of views like “hbds”. You will call them stupid too??
Videla points out Japanese patents and innovations after American rebuildment of Japan from the Adam bomb, yet he is eager to say sub-saharan blacks are just as capable as the Japanese under British colonization.
sub-saharan blacks are just as capable as the Japanese
videla and mugabe have NEVER said that…drrr.
To the one called Mugabe, do you have an answer to the fact that social mobility is non-existent because of genetic factors? Probably not. In that case, educate yourself. Hear it from Gregory Clark himself: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/04/social-mobility-equality-class-society?CMP=share_btn_tw
http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/26/compound-interest-is-the-least-powerful-force-in-the-universe/
EVERYTHING IS HERITABLE
that’s trivia Kev. how could it possibly be that h^2 was 0 for anything? ask your dumb self that.
star codex is a math challenged moron.
he’s said so himself.
i don’t need an answer to meaningless and jerrymandered statements. clark laughs through his nose and has bad skin.
Probably because you don’t have one. Even as an economist, Clark has a better understanding of the simplest concepts – like heritability – than you. Plomin & Deary’s behavior genetic research backs him up too.
there’s no answer Kev.
how many angels can fit on the head of a pin?
and as is the wont of hereditists, all of whom, including Jensen, have low IQs,
you’ve confused heritability of status with intrinsic human capital.
a study at the HKSG using SEM found that the heritability of IQ explained at most 1/15th of intergenerational status transmission.
i guess it’s “gerrymandered”…
the point is, if you’re looking for high heritability of “status” you can jigger the inputs to give you a high figure. or is that “gigger”?
scrofulous, nose laughing Clark claimed that Sweden had a class system just as rigid as the UK’s. he’s either lying or gerrymandering the class indicators. that is, he’s either lying or he’s lying.
Plomin can’t back up anyone. he’s a moron.
he has a vid on youtube. he knows less about his subject than i do, and i don’t have a phd in psychology.
phd in psychology = stupid.
Pumpkin,
yes, use right words and correct analogies is important.
JS,
a guy need to be too stupid to fight in a war to “elite interests”. You are completely right about meaningless of iq. I think this fetichism is changing to a kind of ideology with dogmas, absolute certainties. What really define ideology is unilateral point of view. As i always go to say ” the best answers is in the middle, healthy ( health = equilibrium) and rational ( holistic) answer”. Hbd per si is a jewish iq lover.
If ashkenazi have very higher verbal iq and comparatively very lower spatial iq, then they will tend to be “twice exceptional”. Most their geniuses will verbally gifted ( i think) , different than whites cognitive diversity.
JS, you mistakes this study but in fact, the human intelligence is overrated, exactly like ashkenazi intelligence.
I disagree about intelligence Kanazawa “paradox”. What help to explain better this silly smarts is higher mutational load that contribute considerably to create giftedness. Half of births of children with very higher iq have complications, as i read in a study. Complications in birth relate with psychological problems during the life. More mutations implies more randomness in the combinations. Me, Pumpkin, JS, Mugabe….
HBD is mostly reactionary to the theory that all men are equal in intellect and societal progress!
The reason why the Chinese never enslaved africans or people of a lower intellect is because they had and still have a large supply of human capital. And the Chinese elites love oppressing their citizens more so than Westerners. Most Chinese know about blacks just as much as any race realist.
I’m too. People are different because individuais are different in the first. But, environmental factors ( interactions) are also very important because social environment is a result of this interaction between individuals ( gene-gen) or natural events and non-human interactions. Its theory is very interesting. Make sense.
HBD is mostly reactionary to the theory that all men are equal in intellect and societal progress!
JS, while I may disagree with you, I applaud you for your honesty. This is exactly right.
Of course, as I have commented elsewhere, separating ‘all men are created equal’ (morally) is very difficult to separate from ‘all men are created equal’ (as a matter of ability).
The problem about some people is that they tend to summarize a single phrase and interpret literally what is write. These famous historical phrase, when analysed separately can give us a false impression. The author this phrase wasn’t a “anti-racist actvist”.
Pumpkin,
you said two possibly wrong “things”.
Evolution happens individually,
intelligence is a ( individual) ability to adapt the environment to yourself.
I think evolution also happen individually, but the biological and environmental causes are so complex that we , at least by now, no have any power about that. Evolution happen especially in populations because a single individual no have organic Power to modify all population. Philosofical, religious and/ or administrative genius can modify the structural evolution of a determined population.
When we talking about your predilect concept of intelligence, me at least, want to say, again, specially as “humanity can adapt environment to itself, and not individual humans can do”. They can, but super structures reduce this fundamental capacity.
Gregory Cochran is incredibly intelligent. Have you seen this discussion with Razib Khan he’s had? http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/1999
Lol, “incredibly” smart…
Cockring is a moron. at least compared to me. so…a moron compared to anyone.